Mole Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 most of that is fair enough as its for football reasons. Your previous dig was just about how it will effect lord numb nuts. Make no mistake, Lowe and Wilde losing all the money they have tied in Saints is merely looking on the bright side.
solentstars Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 It's not over til it's over. There's a long way to go yet and, although right now it does look like we'll go down, we shouldn't give up. So no I don't think we should call in the admins this season. i agree while its possible i would rather fight to stay up then surrender,if we go in admin i would rather be in the championship then league one. its ok for those sad cases who worry more about lowe then the saints to wipe the smile of his face but he will still have his other director ships to fall back on. to me sfc come first.
Mole Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 i agree while its possible i would rather fight to stay up then surrender,if we go in admin i would rather be in the championship then league one. its ok for those sad cases who worry more about lowe then the saints to wipe the smile of his face but he will still have his other director ships to fall back on. to me sfc come first. Wakey wakey, we are going down. So it's obviously better to take the points hit this season rather than next season.
NickG Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 But do you think that -if relegated - we could financially survive in League 1? less of a drop than coming out of the premiership so quite possibly
saintwarwick Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Make no mistake, Lowe and Wilde losing all the money they have tied in Saints is merely looking on the bright side. Not forgetting Crouch, a name you frequently miss from your posts.
Thedelldays Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 I can't ****ing wait for the club to go into admin. To see Lowe and Wilde lose their investment will be very amusing. oh no...there are more people that dont agree with you... (must be all luvvies)
John Smith Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 i agree while its possible i would rather fight to stay up then surrender,if we go in admin i would rather be in the championship then league one. its ok for those sad cases who worry more about lowe then the saints to wipe the smile of his face but he will still have his other director ships to fall back on. to me sfc come first. Don;t think it's right to generalise on this. I don;t want Lowe here but I don;t want to go into administration either. At the beginning of the season, even though I chose not to attend any more, I still hoped that Lowe would be a success and get us near the play offs, like he said. I wish we were top of the league, I still wouldn't be going, but I don;t wish failure for this club. I think your confusing despair with joy. There woiuldn't be a smile on anyones face if we went into admin or if we got relegated. And I'm sorry if I p*ss in the wind at your theory that I'd be smiling, trust me, I wouldn't. But I guess it would be easy for me to call you a Lowe luvvie and generalise about any sexual activity you may have performed with him. But like your statement, it wouldn't be true and it would just be a cheap shot. So, I'm guessing, you're just as frustrated as me at 'our' predicament. And like me, wish we could see the way out. COYR
alpine_saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 oh no...there are more people that dont agree with you... (must be all luvvies) You are absolutely right TDD. He is (and I am too) in a minority. But lookee here. If you had written on here a few months ago that any more than a few "sad cases" wanted administration, let alone one third of the vote, you would have been called bonkers.. I am just astounded that, like Lowe, so many are ego driven they would risk three relegations in 5 years
Window Cleaner Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 (edited) You are absolutely right TDD. He is (and I am too) in a minority. But lookee here. If you had written on here a few months ago that any more than a few "sad cases" wanted administration, let alone one third of the vote, you would have been called bonkers.. I am just astounded that, like Lowe, so many are ego driven they would risk three relegations in 5 years Yes but 80% of the 33% that want administration either have a collective IQ of about 12 or they're 10 years old and don't understand what it means. Some,and I'm sure of this, think that we will get docked 10 points, get all of our debts wiped out and start from square 1 exactly as we are but in League 1 come next August. Sorry kids doesn't work that way.The stadium debt won't go away. You think we have a shïte team this season wait until you see the all new post administration version. Leeds have never recovered from administration,and they get 25K+ crowds week in week out. With our 14K hard core we'll be down there scrapping with Yeovil and Brighton. I would prefer the club put up a barometer, you know like the chuch roof ones, saying we need xxxxx£ by Monday after next and see what people are prepared to give and under what conditions. Edited 12 February, 2009 by Window Cleaner
solentstars Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 (edited) Don;t think it's right to generalise on this. I don;t want Lowe here but I don;t want to go into administration either. At the beginning of the season, even though I chose not to attend any more, I still hoped that Lowe would be a success and get us near the play offs, like he said. I wish we were top of the league, I still wouldn't be going, but I don;t wish failure for this club. I think your confusing despair with joy. There woiuldn't be a smile on anyones face if we went into admin or if we got relegated. And I'm sorry if I p*ss in the wind at your theory that I'd be smiling, trust me, I wouldn't. But I guess it would be easy for me to call you a Lowe luvvie and generalise about any sexual activity you may have performed with him. But like your statement, it wouldn't be true and it would just be a cheap shot. So, I'm guessing, you're just as frustrated as me at 'our' predicament. And like me, wish we could see the way out. COYR good post and agree with all you said and was not having ago at you you post like one of the real fans at this great club,but their are people who post on here about lowe all the time and wanting us to get relegated because they hate him so much.me i just care about the saints and staying up. Edited 12 February, 2009 by solentstars
Mole Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 oh no...there are more people that dont agree with you... (must be all luvvies) Who knows what you'll think tomorrow.
Mole Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 You are absolutely right TDD. He is (and I am too) in a minority. But lookee here. If you had written on here a few months ago that any more than a few "sad cases" wanted administration, let alone one third of the vote, you would have been called bonkers.. I am just astounded that, like Lowe, so many are ego driven they would risk three relegations in 5 years Give it a month and Delldays will have changed his mind. Well actually knowing Delldays he'll have changed his mind and changed it back again by then.
NickG Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Yes but 80% of the 33% that want administration either have a collective IQ of about 12 or they're 10 years old and don't understand what it means. Some,and I'm sure of this, think that we will get docked 10 points, get all of our debts wiped out and start from square 1 exactly as we are but in League 1 come next August. Sorry kids doesn't work that way.The stadium debt won't go away. You think we have a shïte team this season wait until you see the all new post administration version. Leeds have never recovered from administration,and they get 25K+ crowds week in week out. With our 14K hard core we'll be down there scrapping with Yeovil and Brighton. I would prefer the club put up a barometer, you know like the chuch roof ones, saying we need xxxxx£ by Monday after next and see what people are prepared to give and under what conditions. only way anyone could wish for administration is either hate saints and want ill to come of them or don't understand it
CB Fry Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Yes but 80% of the 33% that want administration either have a collective IQ of about 12 or they're 10 years old and don't understand what it means. Some,and I'm sure of this, think that we will get docked 10 points, get all of our debts wiped out and start from square 1 exactly as we are but in League 1 come next August. Sorry kids doesn't work that way.The stadium debt won't go away. You think we have a shïte team this season wait until you see the all new post administration version. Leeds have never recovered from administration,and they get 25K+ crowds week in week out. With our 14K hard core we'll be down there scrapping with Yeovil and Brighton. I would prefer the club put up a barometer, you know like the chuch roof ones, saying we need xxxxx£ by Monday after next and see what people are prepared to give and under what conditions. Correct. The people who want administration are divs who don't understand it and think it is some "clean slate" super tonic that will have us shooting up the league in no time. Just like, well, ummmm, errr....Bradford?
Panda Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Administration is NOT a tactical decision, it is a financial decision and a desperate one at that. We should be fearful of administration, it is not just about a ten point hit.
NickG Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 amazing some so-called saints supporters get excited about the prospect of the club folding.
St Marco Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Correct. The people who want administration are divs who don't understand it and think it is some "clean slate" super tonic that will have us shooting up the league in no time. Just like, well, ummmm, errr....Bradford? Think thats a bit harsh mate. Most of the teams who have gone into admin seem to now have stopped their rot as such. Look at Hull. They were in admin in 2001 and look what happened to them after that. Saying people are divs for wanting it is a bit wide of the mark. I understand the process very well and the thing that makes me laugh the most is that the supposed doom mongers are the ones who claim to know the best. As i mentioned in my post earlier what is actually different from what is happening to the club now to what will happen if/when we go into admin? If we surive this season we have nothing to worry about for at least another year. However if we don't and we have not gone into admin before the deadline we will go into admin once it is confirmed we are down for sure. The club with the debts it has will not be able to pay them off and still operate in division one (technical division 3). Then when we start next season not only will we have had to sell off the crap players we have but we will start the season with a minus 10 points to start with. Just look at Bournmouth to know that is not something to take lightly. The thing with the Bradford remark is you are right. Bradford are a fine example of what happens when you continue to believe you can run a club with the income you have. The thing is it took Bradford many years to bounce back. But now they are 2 points from a promotion place, it is possible they could be promoted into league 1 while we are relegated to it. On that basis would you not say that they have started to go forwards again?
NickG Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Think thats a bit harsh mate. Most of the teams who have gone into admin seem to now have stopped their rot as such. Look at Hull. They were in admin in 2001 and look what happened to them after that. Saying people are divs for wanting it is a bit wide of the mark. I understand the process very well and the thing that makes me laugh the most is that the supposed doom mongers are the ones who claim to know the best. As i mentioned in my post earlier what is actually different from what is happening to the club now to what will happen if/when we go into admin? If we surive this season we have nothing to worry about for at least another year. However if we don't and we have not gone into admin before the deadline we will go into admin once it is confirmed we are down for sure. The club with the debts it has will not be able to pay them off and still operate in division one (technical division 3). Then when we start next season not only will we have had to sell off the crap players we have but we will start the season with a minus 10 points to start with. Just look at Bournmouth to know that is not something to take lightly. The thing with the Bradford remark is you are right. Bradford are a fine example of what happens when you continue to believe you can run a club with the income you have. The thing is it took Bradford many years to bounce back. But now they are 2 points from a promotion place, it is possible they could be promoted into league 1 while we are relegated to it. On that basis would you not say that they have started to go forwards again? don't think you actually know that do you?
St Marco Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 don't think you actually know that do you? I don't but listening to what those who have seen the books say i think it is pretty certain. Dropping down a division means you cut off a gigantic slice of your income from the tv deal and from your gate receipts. If the money coming in is less that means the debt is paid off less. We already have that in this league, dropping another league will make it worse. It is simple maths, if your income is not matching your outgoing your get more and more into debt trying to keep up with it, until it gets to the point you can't pay it back. If we go down that will be the point for us. Other clubs are lucky in the sense they have someone who can help prop up the bills by putting money in i.e Leicester, we don't.
CB Fry Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 (edited) Think thats a bit harsh mate. Most of the teams who have gone into admin seem to now have stopped their rot as such. Look at Hull. They were in admin in 2001 and look what happened to them after that. Saying people are divs for wanting it is a bit wide of the mark. I understand the process very well and the thing that makes me laugh the most is that the supposed doom mongers are the ones who claim to know the best. As i mentioned in my post earlier what is actually different from what is happening to the club now to what will happen if/when we go into admin? If we surive this season we have nothing to worry about for at least another year. However if we don't and we have not gone into admin before the deadline we will go into admin once it is confirmed we are down for sure. The club with the debts it has will not be able to pay them off and still operate in division one (technical division 3). Then when we start next season not only will we have had to sell off the crap players we have but we will start the season with a minus 10 points to start with. Just look at Bournmouth to know that is not something to take lightly. The thing with the Bradford remark is you are right. Bradford are a fine example of what happens when you continue to believe you can run a club with the income you have. The thing is it took Bradford many years to bounce back. But now they are 2 points from a promotion place, it is possible they could be promoted into league 1 while we are relegated to it. On that basis would you not say that they have started to go forwards again? Fair enough, I will concede Hull, but you have to remember Hull had decades of being nowhere near the top flight behind them, and it has taken eight years for them to get to the Prem, which for Hull is pretty good, but for Saints from now would be pretty bad. Hull's rise is a bit like Wigan's - a tiny club rocketing through unexpectedly. MK Dons are doing it as we speak. It's less "we survived admin" and much more "tiny club makes it big". None of those clubs had a nearly new 32,000 seat stadium at the point of admin, so it really isn't the same thing. We've got too much baggage and history to have a mindset like a Hull fan in 2002 when an exciting adventure was starting. If we are, say, eighth in Div 4 its not the same as if Hull in 2001 were eighth in Div 4. That's humilation for a Saints fan, it was just "normal" for a Hull fan. Also, Bradford are now near the top of the fourth tier after being relegated from the Prem in (funnily enough, good old Wikipedia) 2001. So a long way to go. At the moment some people might say "eight years to get back into the top flight is fine just as long as Lowe goes" but that's easy to say now. Eight seasons is a bloody long time. Hanging on in there is preferable to administration. Edited 12 February, 2009 by CB Fry
SFC Forever Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 If we knew that someone with money was waiting in the wings to strike after admin was put in place I would defend rhe idea. But we don't and the thought of going into administration frightens the life out of me. Our team would lose any player that other clubs want leaving us with what? The probability of minus points and no team. We could end up with the best ground in the conference. No money, no players and no hope. Is that what we really want?
Amesbury Saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Its a very difficult question to answer. What we really need is the latest financial information to make a proper decision.
Clapham Saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but we can't just decide to go into Admin can we! Doesn't one of our creditors have to call in the debt first, and then we have to demonstrate we can't pay it etc. etc. etc. It can work either way. Usually if the bank want to appoint an administrator they will "ask" the directors to appoint one, and usually a specifuc one from one of their panel firms. As an accountant who works with "distressed" businesses I would prefer to avoid administration if at all possible. The ONLY circumstances in which I would accept administration voluntarily would be if a new owner was already lined up to invest and was prepared to buy the club out of administration. This would have the disadvantage of losing the 10 points but would give a "clean sweep" allowing the (mythical) investor to get rid of Lowe and Wilde for good. If I could be 100% certain that a new investor with money would come in and invest in the team and take us forward I personally would accept relegation in order to start again. If a new investor isn't lined up then, should we go into adminstration, the administrator will sell the club to the highest bidder regardless of who they are. He/She will also sell off any players that they can get cash for in the interim. Just becuase Lowe has been proved a failure in the past, if he stumps up the most cash (even if its just £1) then he will be able to buy the club lock, stock etc. He would then own 100% rather than the current 6%.
Minstral Man Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 Did Lowe not say in the chairman's statement at the AGM that the Directors would not let the company fail even if it required puting in new money?
StuRomseySaint Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 With regards to takeovers etc.... there is a good reason why nobody will come forward at the moment...... .... we are so close to administration and everyone knows that it is inevitable at some point in the next 18 months. So they will get a much better deal once it is done. Take it now and start a fresh next season. Seriously guys and gals, even another season in the Championship will stop admin, we don't have the money to improve, we don't have the players to improve next season, and we don't have the loyal fans to pump money through the gates next season. It's not going to get better, it's only going to get worse. Do it now.
Gemmel Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 With regards to takeovers etc.... there is a good reason why nobody will come forward at the moment...... .... we are so close to administration and everyone knows that it is inevitable at some point in the next 18 months. So they will get a much better deal once it is done. Take it now and start a fresh next season. Seriously guys and gals, even another season in the Championship will stop admin, we don't have the money to improve, we don't have the players to improve next season, and we don't have the loyal fans to pump money through the gates next season. It's not going to get better, it's only going to get worse. Do it now. The way our debt is structured means we have nothing to gain and everything to lose from administration Your idea of a clean slate is just plain wrong
StuRomseySaint Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 The way our debt is structured means we have nothing to gain and everything to lose from administration Your idea of a clean slate is just plain wrong I don't think you get my point. The point is.... we are going into administration whatever..... it is WHEN not IF. So as it is a choice of this season or next, I would rather take the - points this season. Not being negative, just realistic. I wouldn't take it this very second, if we have no more points on the board by 5pm after Preston, then I would call it a day.
Gemmel Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 I don't think you get my point. The point is.... we are going into administration whatever..... it is WHEN not IF. So as it is a choice of this season or next, I would rather take the - points this season. Not being negative, just realistic. I wouldn't take it this very second, if we have no more points on the board by 5pm after Preston, then I would call it a day. A few weeks ago i may have agreed that we were heading for admin, but we are just not acting like a club close to admin. Two players signed and Saga back on the payroll, with no players out. If we were that close to admin, the bank would be calling the shots and we couldn't have signed them if we wanted to, even if it was a desperate last throw of the dice, the bank just woudn't let us commit to what amounts at best to another 1/2 million worth of commitments. I don't know about enough these things to say fo sure, but the way we've been acting from doesn't look to me like admin is on the cards in the short term.
StuRomseySaint Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 A few weeks ago i may have agreed that we were heading for admin, but we are just not acting like a club close to admin. Two players signed and Saga back on the payroll, with no players out. If we were that close to admin, the bank would be calling the shots and we couldn't have signed them if we wanted to, even if it was a desperate last throw of the dice, the bank just woudn't let us commit to what amounts at best to another 1/2 million worth of commitments. I don't know about enough these things to say fo sure, but the way we've been acting from doesn't look to me like admin is on the cards in the short term. 2 players signed on 'nominal' wages, JP leaving would probably cover one of them at least. The bank would allow us to sign players at the level we are buying now, and the wages we are paying... 1/2 a million for two players wages? WAY over the top! Both will be on less than £1000 a week. So £100k a year MAX Saga is only here because nobody wanted him, Skacel is only here because nobody wanted him. Both are under contract which we cannot cancel, so might as well play them rather than rot in the reserves. This club CANNOT survive on current gates. Most of the young ex-Academy players are on a flat rate of £500 a week. We don't have a pot to p!ss in, we don't have the players to keep us up, Barclays probably let us keep Lallana and Surman due to the 'derisory' offers we recieved for them and hoping they will be worth more in the summer.
Gemmel Posted 12 February, 2009 Posted 12 February, 2009 2 players signed on 'nominal' wages, JP leaving would probably cover one of them at least. The bank would allow us to sign players at the level we are buying now, and the wages we are paying... 1/2 a million for two players wages? WAY over the top! Both will be on less than £1000 a week. So £100k a year MAX Saga is only here because nobody wanted him, Skacel is only here because nobody wanted him. Both are under contract which we cannot cancel, so might as well play them rather than rot in the reserves. This club CANNOT survive on current gates. Most of the young ex-Academy players are on a flat rate of £500 a week. Oh and you can throw JP'spay off into the mix as well We don't have a pot to p!ss in, we don't have the players to keep us up, Barclays probably let us keep Lallana and Surman due to the 'derisory' offers we recieved for them and hoping they will be worth more in the summer. If your bank is puting the pressure on to reduce your outgoings, over heads and over draft, they won't sanction additional spending no matter how much or little it is. Saga back on the payroll is around 6 - 7 k a week, Zoltan i'll go with your £1000 and molenouix (?) another grand, on two year contracts for the two new boys, plus saga, thats over half a mill extra commitments, which would have a higher priorty than than Barclays if we were to go into admin (Inland revenue and employees are first debts cleared) If we were close that just wouldnt happen, why would the bank allow it....it doesnt make sense.....oh and then throw JP's compensation into the mix
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 I don't think you get my point. The point is.... we are going into administration whatever..... it is WHEN not IF. Its amazing how very few people have got a grasp on that, I wouldnt single Gemmel out over that...
OldNick Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 Its amazing how very few people have got a grasp on that, I wouldnt single Gemmel out over that...but we are not going into administration whatever. RL (dare I say his name, or if you prefer RL with LC's ideas)has cut the clubs losses. IF we stay up the club will be better equipped to build on what we have.Some more of the big earners will be gone in the summer and then we can do what other clubs in this league have to do is live within your means. If we go into administration the ground that we have paid a large amount of money bck on will drop into the lap of Aviva.Instead of owning the stadium in X amount of years we will be paying renyt on it.i doubt that the rent would be very much less than the repayments as it is an asset that Aviva have paid £20 m + for and so will need a return on their money.So immediately the major cost to us now is still there. It is paramount that the fans see that if we stay up administration could be a worry of the past.A new tv deal starts to come into play and our squad would have cut its teeth in this league ready and better prepared for next season.If we stay up and results improve the gates will increase slightly and we can then build from there. For all you who are prepared to lie down and die because we are 4 points adrift i worry for you. i know Im more optimistic than many but i can see that we are far from over at this moment in time.If we lose the next 2 games and say 8-10 points adrift then i will be more understanding to the idea of administration.I will still go next season if we have been in administration and the team has been stripped of AS, KD, AL and all the rest and we have Pulis and co as our star players due to the rest being sold by the administrator.
Saint Fan CaM Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 Can't understand how most peeps here think we'll be relegated and yet half that number think we should take administration early. If we're relegated, it will not be long after that the club will go into financial meltdown. Actually, that might happen anyway if March Madness is a disaster.
NickG Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 Its amazing how very few people have got a grasp on that, I wouldnt single Gemmel out over that... and amazing how many guess, predict, assess but then state it as fact.
eelpie Posted 13 February, 2009 Author Posted 13 February, 2009 And this is the crux of the issue. If we dont take administration by mid-March, we are ensuring we are fighting a relegation battle next season as well, whilst there are 2 months of this one to go. This is the view I subscribe to. Beginning with minus 10 points in League 1 is unthinkable.
trousers Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 For all those saying that we are not acting like an organisation about to go into administration, one genuine question from me... What has changed since the accounts were published tail end of last year, which made it very clear that without player sales and/or extra incoming investment we wouldn't be able to continue as a 'going concern'? Q: What's changed?
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 (edited) but we are not going into administration whatever. RL (dare I say his name, or if you prefer RL with LC's ideas)has cut the clubs losses. IF we stay up the club will be better equipped to build on what we have.Some more of the big earners will be gone in the summer and then we can do what other clubs in this league have to do is live within your means. If we go into administration the ground that we have paid a large amount of money bck on will drop into the lap of Aviva.Instead of owning the stadium in X amount of years we will be paying renyt on it.i doubt that the rent would be very much less than the repayments as it is an asset that Aviva have paid £20 m + for and so will need a return on their money.So immediately the major cost to us now is still there. It is paramount that the fans see that if we stay up administration could be a worry of the past.A new tv deal starts to come into play and our squad would have cut its teeth in this league ready and better prepared for next season.If we stay up and results improve the gates will increase slightly and we can then build from there. For all you who are prepared to lie down and die because we are 4 points adrift i worry for you. i know Im more optimistic than many but i can see that we are far from over at this moment in time.If we lose the next 2 games and say 8-10 points adrift then i will be more understanding to the idea of administration.I will still go next season if we have been in administration and the team has been stripped of AS, KD, AL and all the rest and we have Pulis and co as our star players due to the rest being sold by the administrator. 1. Lowe may have cut the costs, but he has also led to a massive cut in revenue with the shiit served up 2. We aint staying up. Everyone knows it. The premise for your post is as deluded as you accuse those, of wanting administration now as a means to solve all the clubs problems, of being... Edited 13 February, 2009 by alpine_saint
CB Fry Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 1. Lowe may have cut the costs, but he has also led to a massive cut in revenue with the shiit served up 2. We aint staying up. Everyone knows it. The premise for your post is as deluded as you accuse those, of wanting administration now as a means to solve all the clubs problems, of being... What about "saving jobs", Alpine? Administration would chuck a few workers on the scrap heap, wouldn't it?
SaintRobbie Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 What about "saving jobs", Alpine? Administration would chuck a few workers on the scrap heap, wouldn't it? Yes - another reason why administration should be avoided. The club from top to bottom should be regarded as a team. I don't think it has ever functioned that way under Lowe's leadership where priorities have been stuck to boardroom rewards but regardless, the staff are just as much of a part of the Club than anyone and deserve our support. Administration has to be the FINAL option. Have we tried to sell this Club yet by the way?
saintjay77 Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 Fair enough, I will concede Hull, but you have to remember Hull had decades of being nowhere near the top flight behind them, and it has taken eight years for them to get to the Prem, which for Hull is pretty good, but for Saints from now would be pretty bad. Hull's rise is a bit like Wigan's - a tiny club rocketing through unexpectedly. MK Dons are doing it as we speak. It's less "we survived admin" and much more "tiny club makes it big". None of those clubs had a nearly new 32,000 seat stadium at the point of admin, so it really isn't the same thing. We've got too much baggage and history to have a mindset like a Hull fan in 2002 when an exciting adventure was starting. If we are, say, eighth in Div 4 its not the same as if Hull in 2001 were eighth in Div 4. That's humilation for a Saints fan, it was just "normal" for a Hull fan. Also, Bradford are now near the top of the fourth tier after being relegated from the Prem in (funnily enough, good old Wikipedia) 2001. So a long way to go. At the moment some people might say "eight years to get back into the top flight is fine just as long as Lowe goes" but that's easy to say now. Eight seasons is a bloody long time. Hanging on in there is preferable to administration. Something else to remember concerning Hull is that there wasnt a 10 point deduction back then either. Had there been they would have dropped out of the league and who knows if they would have climbed the same as thay have since. If we were in the 4th division and took a 10 point hit would we ever make it back?
wild-saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 it is confirmed that at least 35% os saints fans are complete muppets with grip on reality
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 What about "saving jobs", Alpine? Administration would chuck a few workers on the scrap heap, wouldn't it? If you want to blame someone for people losing their jobs when we go into administration, I suggest you look in the right place.
saintjay77 Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 I don't think you get my point. The point is.... we are going into administration whatever..... it is WHEN not IF. So as it is a choice of this season or next, I would rather take the - points this season. Not being negative, just realistic. I wouldn't take it this very second, if we have no more points on the board by 5pm after Preston, then I would call it a day. IF it was an absolute certanty that we are going down this year then the Odds would be pretty high that Administration would follow. The problem I have with what your saying is that as likly as relegation looks right now a few wins would change everyones outlook on the rest of the season. Wotte has longer to right things than Pearson did and the 1st few results are no different to each others. Wotte has brought the experience back into the team and seems to be trying to address the area's that have been our problem, Same as Pearson did! IF and yes I know its still a big IF, Wotte is successful in the coming weeks then survival is a real possibility and as such so is the avoidence of administration. Personally I think we can do it but that doesnt mean I am not worrying that we may fail. IF it was absolutly certain that we are going to go down then yes it would be better to take the hit now. But I think we are a long way off knowing that as a certanty.
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 The problem I have with what your saying is that as likly as relegation looks right now a few wins would change everyones outlook on the rest of the season. I see where you are coming from. You think we are going to win more games in the last dozen than we did in the first 30-odd... :rolleyes:
saintjay77 Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 1. Lowe may have cut the costs, but he has also led to a massive cut in revenue with the shiit served up 2. We aint staying up. Everyone knows it. The premise for your post is as deluded as you accuse those, of wanting administration now as a means to solve all the clubs problems, of being... Since when have you been the voice of everyone? Didnt earlier in this thread (it may be another thread?) you say that you are part of a minority? You sound indisicive..... or are you just not sure?
saintjay77 Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 I see where you are coming from. You think we are going to win more games in the last dozen than we did in the first 30-odd... :rolleyes: oh yeah i forgot, Pearson did it by winning every game available didnt he.
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 Since when have you been the voice of everyone? Didnt earlier in this thread (it may be another thread?) you say that you are part of a minority? You sound indisicive..... or are you just not sure? Wow, what a totally loony twisting....... I said a minority in favour of administration. Oh, and BTW, a recent poll on here suggested about 85% of us reckon we are going down. You must have missed it...
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 oh yeah i forgot, Pearson did it by winning every game available didnt he. No, but he stopped us losing at least. the key here is that he did it. Wotte hasnt got a f**king chance.
NickG Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 two draws under Wotte, similar start to NP - not looking good but lets see if he can match it
alpine_saint Posted 13 February, 2009 Posted 13 February, 2009 two draws under Wotte, similar start to NP - not looking good but lets see if he can match it dont know whether to praise or ridicule your misplaced optimism......
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