Giving stick to the players

[Weston Saint]

We all rant at players when they are not doing well but we must remember many of them are your players thrown into the deep end in a relegation battle.

 

I am told some of the abuse thrown at some of the young players on Tuesday was totally unacceptable. OK they know it is part and parcel of football but some of it was really over the top. IT DOES NOT HELP. They are trying their best and in some cases are working to orders.

 

Enough said.

[Toadhall Saint]

Agreed - it's not there fault - a big weight on young shoulders.

[docker-p]

We all rant at players when they are not doing well but we must remember many of them are your players thrown into the deep end in a relegation battle.

 

I am told some of the abuse thrown at some of the young players on Tuesday was totally unacceptable. OK they know it is part and parcel of football but some of it was really over the top. IT DOES NOT HELP. They are trying their best and in some cases are working to orders.

 

Enough said.

 

I didn't hear any abuse directed at the players, and god knows they were not innocent on Tuesday.

[StuRomseySaint]

I almost stopped hurling abuse at them when the 2nd went in, one of them was staring right at me, he looked like he was going to cry!!! The feeling didn't last long and I continued to let him know what I thought of him.

[Mole]

They are young adults and they should thrive under the pressure if they have anything about them. When Portvliet and Wotte call them boys that doesn't help. This should be a learning curve for them and if they can't handle it they are in the wrong profession and will never cut it at Premiership level. If they aspire to be great footballers they will take the criticism and prove everyone wrong.

[Weston Saint]

I almost stopped hurling abuse at them when the 2nd went in, one of them was staring right at me, he looked like he was going to cry!!! The feeling didn't last long and I continued to let him know what I thought of him.

With your ugly mug looking at him I am not suprised he was about to cry......or was it tears of laughter

[Weston Saint]

They are young adults and they should thrive under the pressure if they have anything about them. When Portvliet and Wotte call them boys that doesn't help. This should be a learning curve for them and if they can't handle it they are in the wrong profession and will never cut it at Premiership level. If they aspire to be great footballers they will take the criticism and prove everyone wrong.

This was not normal abuse but vile.

[StuRomseySaint]

This was not normal abuse but vile.

 

WOuld you care to tell us?

[Weston Saint]

WOuld you care to tell us?

No, it would serve no further purpose.

[aintforever]

The atmosphere at SMS does not help, there are a lot of fans who have a go at the players. Abuse can effect any player, with kids it's 10x worse IMO.

 

There's not alot that can be done about it, fact is most Saints fans have been spoilt over the years watching Keegan, Channon, Shearer, Le Tiss etc, whoever steps out at SMS will be considered **** by many fans.

 

Teams like Doncaster will have an advantage over us because there is less pressure on them, just like when we were at the Dell.

[Legod Third Coming]

We all rant at players when they are not doing well but we must remember many of them are your players thrown into the deep end in a relegation battle.

 

I am told some of the abuse thrown at some of the young players on Tuesday was totally unacceptable. OK they know it is part and parcel of football but some of it was really over the top. IT DOES NOT HELP. They are trying their best and in some cases are working to orders.

 

Enough said.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

Slating the board and manager on here are one thing.

 

You cannot fault some of our young lads for their effort.

 

They are too young and inexperienced to be expected to save a football club.

 

Most of the nippers have hardly kicked a ball in anger before this season!!

[Legod Third Coming]

The atmosphere at SMS does not help, there are a lot of fans who have a go at the players. Abuse can effect any player, with kids it's 10x worse IMO.

 

There's not alot that can be done about it, fact is most Saints fans have been spoilt over the years watching Keegan, Channon, Shearer, Le Tiss etc, whoever steps out at SMS will be considered **** by many fans.

 

Teams like Doncaster will have an advantage over us because there is less pressure on them, just like when we were at the Dell.

 

But this game proves what nonsense the idea that fans' attitude changes games is.

 

First half we sung our hearts out and could not hit a barn door with a banjo.

 

Second half we gave away two goals.

 

The fans went mental and it was only AFTER they went mental that we pulled one back!!!!!

[VectisSaint]

They are too young and inexperienced to be expected to save a football club.

 

Most of the nippers have hardly kicked a ball in anger before this season!!

So why rely on them to get us out of the **** in the CCC? Lowe thinks they're big enough and old enough. There really weren't that many of the inexperienced youngsters playing against Sheff Utd anyway, McLaggon maybe, who else? James has played most of this season. Lallana played before this season. Surman is probably one of our most experienced players now in terms of appearances. Take a look at the team again, we have stopped playing the real nippers, apart from McLaggon.

[sotonist]

There's not alot that can be done about it, fact is most Saints fans have been spoilt over the years watching

the likes of carlton palmer, robbie slater, stuart ripley, ali dia, neil shipperley, paul jones etc, etc.

 

we've had a limited team for a very long time. fortunately the limit was mostly above relegation, but don't pretend we can't recognise the chaff.

[Massimo Osti]

No, it would serve no further purpose.

 

To be honest Weston we heard no Vile insults from the Northam??? Most just seemed stunned.

 

If you wont go deeper then who knows what and from where you mean??

 

Many had gone before the finnal whistle.

 

Did you really see/hear this or is it info passed on to you???

[rocknrollman no2]

I dont like giving players a hard time,but it doesnt seem to work when we get behind the team and cheer them on,either.

So whats the answer?

[saint.tom.clancy]

The atmosphere at SMS does not help, there are a lot of fans who have a go at the players. Abuse can effect any player, with kids it's 10x worse IMO.

 

There's not alot that can be done about it, fact is most Saints fans have been spoilt over the years watching Keegan, Channon, Shearer, Le Tiss etc, whoever steps out at SMS will be considered **** by many fans.

 

Teams like Doncaster will have an advantage over us because there is less pressure on them, just like when we were at the Dell.

 

:confused: I think the atmosphere for 99% of home games this season has been brilliant??

[Legod Third Coming]

So why rely on them to get us out of the **** in the CCC? Lowe thinks they're big enough and old enough. There really weren't that many of the inexperienced youngsters playing against Sheff Utd anyway, McLaggon maybe, who else? James has played most of this season. Lallana played before this season. Surman is probably one of our most experienced players now in terms of appearances. Take a look at the team again, we have stopped playing the real nippers, apart from McLaggon.

 

Hey, I didn't pick the team for the first half of the season.

 

Lallana had played about four first team games and probably not even a full one before this season. This is his first season in first team football - he'll never have played so many games in his life.

 

Those who slate him are myopic.

 

When Rooney acored that goal against Arsenal, do you know wher he started the next game? On the bench. And he hardly played a full game all season.

 

THAT is how you BLOOD youngsters.

 

The players we played regularly at the start of the season should never have been in the first team every game. If they were ready, then you introduce them gradually, not chuck 'em in and expect to win with them.

 

Because they play and don't cut it, that is no reason to berate them.

 

Lloyd James is still LEARNING. Footballers do not start one season as a finished article. That's another reason you introduce them gradually over a year or two, unless they are exceptional. I mean, even Walcott doesn't start every game. And there's no better manager in the world at improving kids.

[Mr X]

I think that if you are a footballer you expect abuse of some kind if you are not performing to a satisfactory standard, yes they are young but they are going to get a lot more of it in there career, I don't think we need to be on tippy toes with them. However I don't condone personal or racist abuse at the players that is unacceptable.

[um pahars]

No, it would serve no further purpose.

 

I think it would, as we would then know the context, what was said, how many were saying it etc etc etc.

 

I didn't experience anything other than the normal moans and groans, some laughter, some exasperated expletives and frustration.

 

I would certainly like to know what exactly was said, as otherwise I have to say that these players need to toughen up and accept that fans having a general moan after 1 win in how many is par for the course.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

:smt022 Sorry it`s mans game..

 

If you are paid to do a job in whatever profession you have to accept

critsism not jusr praise......... part of life...

 

Football is a high profile job and pretty well paid and these players have a

responsibilty to the fans so if they are willing to accept praise then critisism

has to be accepted too.

 

Or maybe we should continue to accept these continual displays of ineptitude

without a murmur...

 

Or maybe the never critcal fans should be told that too much praise

is no good for the players are only young and it will be bad for them..

 

 

Wht age is an acceptable age for players to be "given some stick"? then.

[Legod Third Coming]

:smt022 Sorry it`s mans game..

 

If you are paid to do a job in whatever profession you have to accept

critsism not jusr praise......... part of life...

 

Football is a high profile job and pretty well paid and these players have a

responsibilty to the fans so if they are willing to accept praise then critisism

has to be accepted too.

 

Or maybe we should continue to accept these continual displays of ineptitude

without a murmur...

 

Or maybe the never critcal fans should be told that too much praise

is no good for the players are only young and it will be bad for them..

 

 

Wht age is an acceptable age for players to be "given some stick"? then.

 

I think Professional footballers should be given stick where it's warranted.

 

But not apprentices.

 

There is a massive difference.

 

If you came into my office and told me I was bollock awful at my job, I would fecking well show you right and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

 

If you came in an said the same to one of my juniors, I would kick your head in.

[sotonist]

Maybe if they get enough stick they can join a hockey league and Rupert will be fit to run the club.

[Stu Man Do]

:confused: I think the atmosphere for 99% of home games this season has been brilliant??

 

 

Really? I think it does depend on where you sit obviously but closing blocks 1-3 has killed that area to some extent and on tues i sat in the kingsland granny day care center and was told to "be quiet" after telling the lino what i thought of one of his decisions. If you like to get involved in a sing song e.g. atmosphere it seems back of block 4 the northam and some kingsland northam corner are your only options.

[Legod Third Coming]

maybe if they get enough stick they can join a hockey league and rupert will be fit to run the club.

 

lmao.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I think Professional footballers should be given stick where it's warranted.

 

But not apprentices.

 

There is a massive difference.

 

If you came into my office and told me I was bollock awful at my job, I would fecking well show you right and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

 

If you came in an said the same to one of my juniors, I would kick your head in.

 

Do they not have pro contracts?

 

There would be a bit of a scrap in your office then but i would

help the cleaners clear up your blood.

[Graffito]

:smt022 Sorry it`s mans game..

 

If you are paid to do a job in whatever profession you have to accept

critsism not jusr praise......... part of life...

 

Football is a high profile job and pretty well paid and these players have a

responsibilty to the fans so if they are willing to accept praise then critisism

has to be accepted too.

 

Or maybe we should continue to accept these continual displays of ineptitude

without a murmur...

 

Or maybe the never critcal fans should be told that too much praise

is no good for the players are only young and it will be bad for them..

 

Wht age is an acceptable age for players to be "given some stick"? then.

 

The criticism has to be constructive and it won't be constructive coming from the stands. Apply your approach to your own place of work and consider whether it would produce better or worse results.

[Legod Third Coming]

Do they not have pro contracts?

 

There would be a bit of a scrap in your office then but i would

help the cleaners clear up your blood.

 

They were given contracts by Lowe to make up for the fact we had no professionals on our books.

 

In other times I would agree with you, but genuinely we have taken some young lads and thrown them to the Lions.

 

It's not ferking right and it does my head in.

 

It could ruin their careers.

 

And they'll be lucky to be paid the same as a half-decent teacher.

 

My cleaners would also kick your head in. I don't offer people scraps in my office without knowing I've got a mathematical advantage pal!

[ALWAYS_SFC]

The criticism has to be constructive and it won't be constructive coming from the stands. Apply your approach to your own place of work and consider whether it would produce better or worse results.

 

Butr it`s not the usual place of work is it?

 

Getting some stick form the crowd is part and parcel of the job,always has been and always will be...

 

Passions run very high both on and off the field and people do not

always say the most kind and rational things particularly when things are as

bad as they are at present at SMS...

 

When things are good then they can accept the praise but sadly at present

they are not.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

They were given contracts by Lowe to make up for the fact we had no professionals on our books.

 

In other times I would agree with you, but genuinely we have taken some young lads and thrown them to the Lions.

 

It's not ferking right and it does my head in.

 

It could ruin their careers.

 

And they'll be lucky to be paid the same as a half-decent teacher.

 

My cleaners would also kick your head in. I don't offer people scraps in my office without knowing I've got a mathematical advantage pal!

 

I don`t condone the stick handed out if it`s over the top but in football

that`s how it is.

 

Don`t get me started about Lowe... the idiot..

 

Are you suggesting that they are poorly paid against the "normal job"?

doubt it...

 

The cleaners might be glad i gave you a slap as they might think your

a ****ty boss;)

Edited 5 February, 2009 by ALWAYS_SFC

[DaveyR]

How much do they earn?? On average?? I'm sure I would take there wages per week for some abuse, no probs!

[chi saint]

Well you know what they say, those that can, do and those that can't teach or in this case shout abuse from the stands.

 

Another saying goes - praise in public and criticise in private. Precisely the opposite to what many now do during the course of a game.

 

Whilst we all groan and wince, offer less than constructive advice at times about going for the ball or learning to cross etc, why some feel the need to go beyond that and engage in issuing personal abuse or threats at individuals or collectives I don't know.

 

I can't believe that when they step on the pitch they don't want to do their respective best, that's why they have choosen that career path because they love the game and want to win.

 

It's at times like this that we all have to stand up and be counted and clearly both at the game and in this forum some want to be counted as fair weather fans, plenty of praise and congratulatory fervour when things are going well and vitriol and abuse when times become difficult as now.

 

I do hope what ever happens that these misguided foes, for that is what they are fast becoming in respect of a club they would have us believe they support, that these foes are reminded of their deeds when we are through this time of crisis and when they will attempt to portray themselves as true fans rather than what they are fast becoming, part of the problem.

[Legod Third Coming]

I don`t condone the stick handed out if it`s over the top but in football

that`s how it is.

 

Don`t get me started about Lowe... the idiot..

 

Are you suggesting that they are poorly paid against the "normal job"?

doubt it...

 

The cleaners might be glad i gave you a slap as they might think your

a ****ty boss;)

 

Someone like Ryan Smith might be on £40-50k a year, about the same as a decent teacher these days.

 

Frank Lampard is on £130k per week. Joe Cole £90k a week.

 

So you should expect Smith to be about 50 -100 times worse than Frank Lampard ad Joe Cole. And he is.

 

So no point giving him stick is there when he can't do what Joe Cole can.

 

If Saganowski has a shocker fair enough. Lancashire? Smith? Spiderman? Lallana... they are still learning and when people learn they tend to make mistakes.

[SFC Forever]

With all the boycott talk perhaps we should check the team because some of them have been boycotting for most of the season.

[Graffito]

Butr it`s not the usual place of work is it?

 

Getting some stick form the crowd is part and parcel of the job,always has been and always will be...

 

Passions run very high both on and off the field and people do not

always say the most kind and rational things particularly when things are as

bad as they are at present at SMS...

 

When things are good then they can accept the praise but sadly at present

they are not.

 

I know what you mean but only the manager is in a position to know, if he's any good, whether a bollo*king or an arm round the shoulder is what's required for each individual. I'm bound to say that I've heard little mass criticism of players at SMS this season but if it does happen I can't see how it will achieve what we all want which is wins.

[Legod Third Coming]

Well you know what they say, those that can, do and those that can't teach or in this case shout abuse from the stands.

 

Another saying goes - praise in public and criticise in private. Precisely the opposite to what many now do during the course of a game.

 

Whilst we all groan and wince, offer less than constructive advice at times about going for the ball or learning to cross etc, why some feel the need to go beyond that and engage in issuing personal abuse or threats at individuals or collectives I don't know.

 

I can't believe that when they step on the pitch they don't want to do their respective best, that's why they have choosen that career path because they love the game and want to win.

 

It's at times like this that we all have to stand up and be counted and clearly both at the game and in this forum some want to be counted as fair weather fans, plenty of praise and congratulatory fervour when things are going well and vitriol and abuse when times become difficult as now.

 

I do hope what ever happens that these misguided foes, for that is what they are fast becoming in respect of a club they would have us believe they support, that these foes are reminded of their deeds when we are through this time of crisis and when they will attempt to portray themselves as true fans rather than what they are fast becoming, part of the problem.

 

I saw a car crash into another today. If only they hadn't intended to crash I thought, then there would be no need for all this snow...

[um pahars]

Another saying goes - praise in public and criticise in private. Precisely the opposite to what many now do during the course of a game.

 

It may have escaped your notice, but football matches are played in open "public" spaces with the public paying to be entertained. Support, songs, whingeing, moaning etc etc etc are all a part and parcel of football.

 

Whilst we all groan and wince, offer less than constructive advice at times about going for the ball or learning to cross etc, why some feel the need to go beyond that and engage in issuing personal abuse or threats at individuals or collectives I don't know.

 

And as others have said all they could generally hear was exactly what you have described. Now if the odd nutter takes it to excess then please let's not take it out on others who have done no more than what millions of fans have done over the years.

[docker-p]

I'm not sure where this idea that giving the players stick stops them from performing. Away at Burnley we were 3-0 down at half-time and the team were given a huge amount of abuse as they walked past the Saints fans on the way to their half-time cuppa.

Second half we 'won' 2-0

[Graffito]

I'm not sure where this idea that giving the players stick stops them from performing. Away at Burnley we were 3-0 down at half-time and the team were given a huge amount of abuse as they walked past the Saints fans on the way to their half-time cuppa.

Second half we 'won' 2-0

 

So we can all be better supporters then by giving the players huge amounts of abuse.

[lordswoodsaints]

We all rant at players when they are not doing well but we must remember many of them are your players thrown into the deep end in a relegation battle.

 

I am told some of the abuse thrown at some of the young players on Tuesday was totally unacceptable. OK they know it is part and parcel of football but some of it was really over the top. IT DOES NOT HELP. They are trying their best and in some cases are working to orders.

 

Enough said.

 

they should be able to take the abuse in the same way they lap up the applause......if they are sh1t then i will let them know, in the same way i will let them know when they are doing well...they are after all getting paid a lot of money to kick a ball around whilst i have to work my nuts off for a relatively small amount in comparison.

if they cant take the abuse then they should get out of the game or do something to improve their game.

contrary to popular belief,footballers are not stupid,they know that if they play sh1t the crowd will get restless but they also know that for the majority of the time they will be applauded.

after they have finished their 90 minutes 'work' they can always go back to their big mansions,lock themselves away behind their electric gates and count their 'well earned' money.

[aintforever]

the likes of carlton palmer, robbie slater, stuart ripley, ali dia, neil shipperley, paul jones etc, etc.

 

we've had a limited team for a very long time. fortunately the limit was mostly above relegation, but don't pretend we can't recognise the chaff.

 

I think you just proved my point, Ali Dia aside you've probably listed a bunch of players who would be legends for a club like Doncaster.

[Mr X]

they should be able to take the abuse in the same way they lap up the applause......if they are sh1t then i will let them know, in the same way i will let them know when they are doing well...they are after all getting paid a lot of money to kick a ball around whilst i have to work my nuts off for a relatively small amount in comparison.

if they cant take the abuse then they should get out of the game or do something to improve their game.

contrary to popular belief,footballers are not stupid,they know that if they play sh1t the crowd will get restless but they also know that for the majority of the time they will be applauded.

after they have finished their 90 minutes 'work' they can always go back to their big mansions,lock themselves away behind their electric gates and count their 'well earned' money.

 

I agree in any profession if you don't perform you will get critisism its how you deal with the critisism thats important put it to good use and perform better the next time, sadly our performances haven't improved

[Amesbury Saint]

We all rant at players when they are not doing well but we must remember many of them are your players thrown into the deep end in a relegation battle.

 

I am told some of the abuse thrown at some of the young players on Tuesday was totally unacceptable. OK they know it is part and parcel of football but some of it was really over the top. IT DOES NOT HELP. They are trying their best and in some cases are working to orders.

 

Enough said.

 

I have not abused players but I dont think they are very good at winning football matches.

Some may get better as they get older and wiser, others may drop down a league or two and others may just give up.

 

But our club is in a mess. The fault lies with the chairman and directors and others.

 

Who is going to solve our problems - not the young players thrown in the deep end?

 

We need a hero to step forward. A leader, a motivator and someone with backing of people with money.

 

Ron - you seem to know some of the people in the background - what are they waiting for?

 

Andrew

[Delmary]

We all rant at players when they are not doing well but we must remember many of them are your players thrown into the deep end in a relegation battle.

 

I am told some of the abuse thrown at some of the young players on Tuesday was totally unacceptable. OK they know it is part and parcel of football but some of it was really over the top. IT DOES NOT HELP. They are trying their best and in some cases are working to orders.

 

Enough said.

Agree Ron. There's an idiot that sits several rows in front of me in the Kingsland South block 28 who is forever shouting abuse at DmcG. It's totally uncalled for. Edited 5 February, 2009 by Delmary

[Legod Third Coming]

I have not abused players but I dont think they are very good at winning football matches.

Some may get better as they get older and wiser, others may drop down a league or two and others may just give up.

 

But our club is in a mess. The fault lies with the chairman and directors and others.

 

Who is going to solve our problems - not the young players thrown in the deep end?

 

We need a hero to step forward. A leader, a motivator and someone with backing of people with money.

 

Ron - you seem to know some of the people in the background - what are they waiting for?

 

Andrew

 

 

Peanuts and monkeys. Lowe cannot accept that the clubs with the highest wages win everything.

 

I see no reason to shout and swear at players like Lloyd James because that's as good as he currently is.

 

I might as well swear at my motor for not going faster or my missus for not being ten years younger.

 

It's total nonsense.

 

Conversely, if Skacel strolls about he deserves a verbal kick up the jacksie.

[Bailey]

Getting behind the players and giving them encouragement is the only way.

 

With so many youngsters in the side, they will more than likely go into their shell so to speak with constant abuse.

 

There is alot of pressure on their shoulders, some of them have been thrown in when they're not ready and it's not their fault.

 

If we are to have ANY chance of surviving the drop, then we need to get right behind the boys during matches.

 

As hard and frustrating as it can be, it's our only option. In fairness, I think that generally, we've done a pretty good job this season.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Peanuts and monkeys. Lowe cannot accept that the clubs with the highest wages win everything.

 

I see no reason to shout and swear at players like Lloyd James because that's as good as he currently is.

 

I might as well swear at my motor for not going faster or my missus for not being ten years younger.

 

It's total nonsense.

 

Conversely, if Skacel strolls about he deserves a verbal kick up the jacksie.

 

********...

Any player who strolls around as you put it deserves the verbal arse kicking

and we have one ever present candidate...i`m sure you know who i mean...

[Thedelldays]

some said that moving from the dell was our downfall...why is that..?

 

was it because the dell created at time a "in your face hostile atmosphere" and the opposing team did not fancy it..

 

now they come to SMS and the home fans are on their side to a degree..

 

of course you can say that "i sang through the first half and they were crap"....but do you really think shouting abuse at players will help at all..?

 

 

saying that..lowe in one swoop this season has probably ruined a good half o-dozen young careers by insisting they play all season...but does that mean they should get verbally abused..?

[Mole]

I think some people live in a utopian world where the grass was always greener at the Dell. For time and memorial players have be subjected to abuse and it was far worse years ago.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

So why rely on them to get us out of the **** in the CCC? Lowe thinks they're big enough and old enough. There really weren't that many of the inexperienced youngsters playing against Sheff Utd anyway, McLaggon maybe, who else? James has played most of this season. Lallana played before this season. Surman is probably one of our most experienced players now in terms of appearances. Take a look at the team again, we have stopped playing the real nippers, apart from McLaggon.

McLaggon

Lallana

James

Gillett

McGoldrick

 

None of these were proven first team players at the start of the season. I call that inexperienced. Apart from the recent games when donkey Wotten has played we have selected the likes of Molyneuex, Smith, Golbern, Mills, Lancashire, Paterson, Morgan as well and that is the main reason for the current league position.