Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 this club lurches from one extreme to another. We had too much 'long-term at the expense of the short-term' thinking from Lowe, followed by an outbreak of Myopia from the fans and then from Wilde and Crouch. We were told at the time that Wilde and Crouch didn't have the financial clout to make a difference, they fed us a load of old bull about bringing in investors. We fell for it hook line and sinker. We HAVE been lied to, a lot, but while there is evidence to support the fact that Crouch and Wilde have lied there is less in support of Lowe lying to us. We need to think really carefully before we attempt to hound Lowe out once again, where is the rich benefactor going to come from in the midst of a global recession? I wanted Lowe out and Wilde and Crouch in... I was wrong. Now I want Lowe, Wilde AND Crouch out... as soon as, but not if means things get worse. 'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' that i my point mate exactly...we have all been found wanting with our judgement one way or another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 What a clever man you are. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 that i my point mate exactly...we have all been found wanting with our judgement one way or another... Or maybe if Lowe had not been removed we would already be in League 1 - who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 this club lurches from one extreme to another. We had too much 'long-term at the expense of the short-term' thinking from Lowe, followed by an outbreak of Myopia from the fans and then from Wilde and Crouch. We were told at the time that Wilde and Crouch didn't have the financial clout to make a difference, they fed us a load of old bull about bringing in investors. We fell for it hook line and sinker. We HAVE been lied to, a lot, but while there is evidence to support the fact that Crouch and Wilde have lied there is less in support of Lowe lying to us. We need to think really carefully before we attempt to hound Lowe out once again, where is the rich benefactor going to come from in the midst of a global recession? I wanted Lowe out and Wilde and Crouch in... I was wrong. Now I want Lowe, Wilde AND Crouch out... as soon as, but not if means things get worse. 'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' Excellent post and how I stood during the Lowe out brigade when the Wilde bunch came in. It didn't work out and now we have gone round in circles the only answer is for a rich benefactor to replace Lowe, Wilde and Crouch. No either or but a complete change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Or maybe if Lowe had not been removed we would already be in League 1 - who knows? Or back in the premiership, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Or back in the premiership, who knows? Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Was taken in at the time and have vowed never to be again by what turned out to be weasel words with no substance. The man was unceremoniously dumped just 6 months after riding into SMS on his white charger, basically for non-delivery of assurances and just being a blithering idiot quite frankly. He has no spine, no leadership qualities, no money and IMO just possesses a fantasist dream of being a provincial football club "mogul" ! Jonah was the wise man back in the summer of 2006 and was pilloried for it - I bet many wish they listened to his opinion now. I certainly do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Was taken in at the time and have vowed never to be again by what turned out to be weasel words with no substance. The man was unceremoniously dumped just 6 months after riding into SMS on his white charger, basically for non-delivery of assurances and just being a blithering idiot quite frankly. He has no spine, no leadership qualities, no money and IMO just possesses a fantasist dream of being a provincial football club "mogul" ! Jonah was the wise man back in the summer of 2006 and was pilloried for it - I bet many wish they listened to his opinion now. I certainly do... Guided Missile was also on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Now I am confused! This thread shows smething good though... we all want teh same thing but are all confused about how to get it! I do think its a shame that the '3 working together' was not at least tried - because all three have some positive qualities which if they focused on could provide a sort of bastardised reasonable chairman - lowe and his measured fincial controls, Wilde and his 'spirit' and blagging, and Crouch the communicator keeping us all happy... who knows maybe if we lock them in a room, turn off the lights supply no food , just 48 tinnies of Carslberg Superstrength, blast tehm with some lurve music, we might get something....or is that just plain wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 The Saints Trust let everyone down by excepting the share proxy from Wilde. They were warned at the time that this was tantamount to throwing away their independence, but sadly they had an incompetent chairman that couldn't see past the end of his nose. You mean accepting. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Or back in the premiership, who knows? Given the debacle that was our first season down - Woodward, Clifford, Redknapp, staged press conferences, player revolts etc etc etc, and given what has happened in his first season back, I struggle to believe that Lowe would have got us back to the Premiership. Lowe's return this season and the total cck up that it has been so far, only confirms that the decision to remove him the first time around was the correct one. That doesn't condone everything that happened post his removal, but the failings of others are a very poor reason for him staying on (or indeed returning). The very fact that we have a failed Lowe together with a failed Wilde is enough to make all sides weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 You mean accepting. HTH Yep, accepting. Don't the comments heart though Um, i'm sure you won't always be a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 "History repeats itself, first as tragedy then as farce". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 (edited) were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly responsible for him being here in the first place..? Not really. Oh hindsight can be a wonderful thing. After all, Lowe somehow got let into power first time around, then Askham before that. The main point is - You never know what you're going to get. We all hope and put trust in the board (god knows why as they've never properly served the fans, not like the better clubs with football men on the board : i.e. Sunderland) but it's always a risk. Look at Liverpool with Glazer and Hicks. Clearly, due diligence is of prime importance and the club dropped a huge b*llock with Wilde and co. However, the relationship between the board and Rupert Lowe [first time] had got so bad, with his divisive personality & erratic behaviour, plethora of poor decisions, lack of investment and terrible people skills and football decisions (getting through 10 managers & getting us relegated)...it really was a case of anyone was better than Lowe. How wrong we all were. I freely admit that now, as many other do and have done on this forum. BUT, in typical Saints fashion, bad wasn't good enough. We had to go even lower. We had to appoint a complete novice - a b*llsh*tter and incompetent dreamer in Michael Wilde (who was even worse than Lowe - certainly at managing finances). Wilde's tenure was fundamentally flawed from the onset - his totally unrealistic dreams and complete failure to fulfil any of his promises. That being - his magna carta - The notorious FOOTBALL MANIFESTO. With today's knowledge - a joke to most Saints fans. If he was a politician, he'd be hounded out of office. At SFC, things don't work that way. His biggest mistake - appointing bully-boy parasites like Hone, Dulieu and co. Why did he leave them in charge, dishing out ludicrous contracts we couldn't afford while over-riding Crouch? Because he doesn't have the ability to stand up to anyone, it seems. Some suggest some may have dirt on Wilde?! Who knows. Regardless of the answer, this is not the type of man you want anywhere near a football club. What we do know is this, Lowe and Wilde are failures. Despite Lowe overseeing the stadium (which I give him appropriate credit for, despite my own, personal Stoneham grievances) and the Cup Final, I do believe we could have achieved much more within his first tenure - with some wiser decisions and building on the platform Strachan suggested and so wisely created. Rupert had a different outlook. Ambition is something which has seemingly been constantly ignored in the SFC boardroom, long before Rupert Lowe disgraced our hallowed steps *cough* (Guy Askham). Both Wilde and Lowe have failed dramatically at St Mary's and their actions damaged Saints deeply, perhaps beyond salvation. What is worse is their egos do not allow objective reasoning (certainly not from Lowe who holds the fan base with contempt). They continue to deride the fans, they continue to dismantle the club, they have asset stripped, appointed poor, inexperienced players and coaches and, in having done so, created an avalanche of catastrophic football errors from day one. It gets worse and worse, and more and more frustrating, by the week. They scorn any advice (other than alleged involvement from mysterious advisors), any board intervention while we sit at the foot of the table and they seem to be preparing for league 1 or even worse. What a joke - all because they care about their shares and personal money above the well being of the club. Pathetic! Edited 3 February, 2009 by Gordon Mockles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Yep, accepting. Don't the comments heart though Um, i'm sure you won't always be a failure. I presume you mean hurt. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I presume you mean hurt. HTH Nah, meant to say don't take the comments to heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? Yes and No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 this club lurches from one extreme to another. We had too much 'long-term at the expense of the short-term' thinking from Lowe, followed by an outbreak of Myopia from the fans and then from Wilde and Crouch. We were told at the time that Wilde and Crouch didn't have the financial clout to make a difference, they fed us a load of old bull about bringing in investors. We fell for it hook line and sinker. We HAVE been lied to, a lot, but while there is evidence to support the fact that Crouch and Wilde have lied there is less in support of Lowe lying to us. We need to think really carefully before we attempt to hound Lowe out once again, where is the rich benefactor going to come from in the midst of a global recession? I wanted Lowe out and Wilde and Crouch in... I was wrong. Now I want Lowe, Wilde AND Crouch out... as soon as, but not if means things get worse. 'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' I'd really like to know what evidence there is that Crouch has lied to us. And as for your last proverb, surely that applies to Lowe as much as to us wanting him out, and lets face it he has learned jack shiit about Customer Relations over two innings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I'd really like to know what evidence there is that Crouch has lied to us. And as for your last proverb, surely that applies to Lowe as much as to us wanting him out, and lets face it he has learned jack shiit about Customer Relations over two innings.. I do not think that Crouch has lied to us but I do firmly hold the view that he misled us - albeit unwittingly but IMO naively. Emblazoned on my mind was his unshakable assertion that investors were just around the corner during his tenure at the helm last year, when it seemed increasingly apparant to many that no such people existed. I just regarded it all as desperate and naive rather than dishonest, but it certainly marked my opinion of him as a football club chairman in line with my views on Lowe and Wilde too - Just Not Good Enough ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I do not think that Crouch has lied to us but I do firmly hold the view that he misled us - albeit unwittingly but IMO naively. Emblazoned on my mind was his unshakable assertion that investors were just around the corner during his tenure at the helm last year, when it seemed increasingly apparant to many that no such people existed. I just regarded it all as desperate and naive rather than dishonest, but it certainly marked my opinion of him as a football club chairman in line with my views on Lowe and Wilde too - Just Not Good Enough ! I think you will probably find Wilde mislead Crouch as much as us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? ooooh look another post blaming fans, pathetic! Wilde purchased his shares for £2m Crouch purchased his for £1.6m and teamed up with other shareholders to control over 60% of the shares, the subsequently called an EGM to remove Lowe, Lowe in turn waited till the day before said EGM waisting thousands of the clubs £'s before deciding to walk! I've come to the conclusion you are nothing more than a sh1t stirring stayaway! I have no problem with JohnnyFartPants or Nickh, we have different views on where and under who the club is heading, but your just on a wind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Originally Posted by Thedelldays were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? ooooh look another post blaming fans, pathetic! Wilde purchased his shares for £2m Crouch purchased his for £1.6m and teamed up with other shareholders to control over 60% of the shares, the subsequently called an EGM to remove Lowe, Lowe in turn waited till the day before said EGM waisting thousands of the clubs £'s before deciding to walk! I've come to the conclusion you are nothing more than a sh1t stirring stayaway! I have no problem with JohnnyFartPants or Nickh, we have different views on where and under who the club is heading, but your just on a wind up! And why did Lowe wait until that time? Because your uber hero Crouch that you have been rimming did not make up his mind until that time. So who's on the wind up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 ooooh look another post blaming fans, pathetic! Wilde purchased his shares for £2m Crouch purchased his for £1.6m and teamed up with other shareholders to control over 60% of the shares, the subsequently called an EGM to remove Lowe, Lowe in turn waited till the day before said EGM waisting thousands of the clubs £'s before deciding to walk! I've come to the conclusion you are nothing more than a sh1t stirring stayaway! I have no problem with JohnnyFartPants or Nickh, we have different views on where and under who the club is heading, but your just on a wind up! ****ing hell..have I hit a nerve..just mere;ly asking a question.. do YOU not think it is wise that we get lowe out properly, as WE did not do that last time in nailing our colours to the 'wilde' mast..i was guilty of it..i got it wrong, but it seems ome are bitter and not big enough to admit they were wrong about wilde.. a for "stay away" I thught that was the done thing now...only about 2 weeks ago, boycotting was a real possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 And why did Lowe wait until that time? Because your uber hero Crouch that you have been rimming did not make up his mind until that time. So who's on the wind up? Crouch is not my hero, why the gay reference, are you homophobic??? For me out of the 3 Crouch is the best choice, just my opinion but there it is. Have you done any research to find out why Crouch waited to take a side, or is it just another homophobic Crouch slating thread. My feelings towards Lowe are based on his performance as CEO/Chairman over the last 8 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 ****ing hell..have I hit a nerve..just mere;ly asking a question.. do YOU not think it is wise that we get lowe out properly, as WE did not do that last time in nailing our colours to the 'wilde' mast..i was guilty of it..i got it wrong, but it seems ome are bitter and not big enough to admit they were wrong about wilde.. a for "stay away" I thught that was the done thing now...only about 2 weeks ago, boycotting was a real possibility Nothing to do with hitting a nerve, just sick and tired of the fans getting it in the neck week in week out. Crouch and Wilde purchased thier shares from existing shareholders, some shareholders proxied thier shares, yes maybe said shareholders should of asked for clarification of Wildes plans, maybe Crouch should of asked the same question, but as for the fan in the stand taking responsibility for Wilde or the situation we now find ourselves in now is cr4p! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Nothing to do with hitting a nerve, just sick and tired of the fans getting it in the neck week in week out. Crouch and Wilde purchased thier shares from existing shareholders, some shareholders proxied thier shares, yes maybe said shareholders should of asked for clarification of Wildes plans, maybe Crouch should of asked the same question, but as for the fan in the stand taking responsibility for Wilde or the situation we now find ourselves in now is cr4p! All a bit easy though isnt it, the blame game? Too many fans are prepared to blame anyone associated with the club when judgement calls go wrong (as inevitably sometimes they will) but get outraged should anyone recall fans backing for the appointment of Burley, Redknapp, Wilde, Crouch etc. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes. Deal with it in a measured way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 he lost his way from day one...he appointed some shady characters really.. did no fan in any sort of influential position (trust, legg, the one or two on here that clearly have connections in the club) even attempt to find out ANYTHING about these people..? Jonah posted very frequently casting doubt on the Wilde Bunch but he was roundly slagged off by the Anyone But Lowe brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Jonah posted very frequently casting doubt on the Wilde Bunch but he was roundly slagged off by the Anyone But Lowe brigade. true...there were a couple that did.. one or two got banned from S4E if I remember rightly for putting up a stance against wilde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 All a bit easy though isnt it, the blame game? Too many fans are prepared to blame anyone associated with the club when judgement calls go wrong (as inevitably sometimes they will) but get outraged should anyone recall fans backing for the appointment of Burley, Redknapp, Wilde, Crouch etc. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes. Deal with it in a measured way I don't get your point mate?? Burley & Redknapp are Lowe's men, Wilde is another Lowe man now he's in his bed, Crouch did what?? Just got back from St. Marys with my 2 kids, none of us can be arsed anymore, if this is what this "revolutionary coaching set up" brings you can keep it, 3 less season tickets for Lowe next year. As for Wotte, didn't see anything from him tonight, just pointing to the oppositions box. Blackwell (as much as i dislike him) was everywhere, kicking every ball, questioning every decision etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 7 February, 2009 Share Posted 7 February, 2009 All a bit easy though isnt it, the blame game? Too many fans are prepared to blame anyone associated with the club when judgement calls go wrong (as inevitably sometimes they will) but get outraged should anyone recall fans backing for the appointment of Burley, Redknapp, Wilde, Crouch etc. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes. Deal with it in a measured way The difference is the board and the people associated with making these sorts of decisions are paid to do so and as such are accountable.... The fans who were taken in by the false promises offered by Wilde and co, are not. They in fact pay the aboves wages.. To say the fans, such as myself, who believed what Wilde promised, are now somewhat culpable for our current demise is such farcical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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