Lowe Haters- No Departures

[SaintRobbie]

Molyneaux hasn't strengthened the squad. He is an inexperienced liability. Zoltan might be ok, but he too is very inexperienced at this level, and is an almighty risk if played during our seriously tough relegation dogfight. Gasmi, Forecast and Pulis are not first team standard. So how has that stengthened our squad? And what does their signings say for the standard of our heralded Academy which Lowe gambled on to be the mainstay of our squad this season?

 

The one player signed since the season started that we have now who is a real plus is Saeijs.

 

Meanwhile Dyer - who we really need right now - is on loan until the end of the season. '20 goal' John was disregarded completely. No wonder we are in the mess we are in.

 

No, our squad is considerably weaker than it could have been and should be.

 

That's a very good point. Our club has been decimated by Lowe since he returned (crassly - there were other ways to save money than introducing a policy of not playing experienced players to encourage them to leave and bring in a **** Dutrch coaching Cliffordesque bunch of con men.)

 

The team is where it is because Lowe has stripped it and experimented with it. Lowe has failed... but the team we have now is only slightly better than the one that was here 2 weeks ago, which in turn is nothing compared to last summer's (which barely survived). We are going down with out more men, returned loan strikers, Dyer and a new manager.

[saintjay77]

a very logical post but i think we would have better of keeping pearson.

 

Compared to JP I agree with you but the jury is still out on Wotte IMO. 1st impressions I would put them at about the same level but that impression may change depending on how we cope with the rest of the season. Wotte has only had 2 games and it took Pearson a few more before the results started to change.

[bungle]

Great in depth factual response ...

 

Kindly explain WHY my post is "silly" ....... ie give a counter argument

 

Because, as you seem not to have grasped, the club was millions of pounds in debt and running at a massive loss. Therefore, we can't just continue to spunk money away. If in the first half of this season we have been able to reduce running costs enough to afford another higher earner, then that is good news.

 

Simply saying "WE SHOULD SPEND MONEY YOU IDIOTS" at the board, is very silly and leads me to believe you have issues.

[bungle]

Did you really expect to see anything substantial after reading who posted it?

 

Don't think I've really come across that poster before. I shall keep an eye out.

[Greedyfly]

Ron, I am.

 

Not proud exactly, because clearly things could have gone better. That said the fact that we are not cut loose whilst playing effectively a reserve/youth team is a testament to the guts of the players we have.

 

I didn't expect playoffs this year, I expected to survive whilst the financial holes were plugged.

 

We're not relegated yet, and with luck we'll survive by the skin of our teeth which is what happened last year (with a vastly more experienced, skilled and payed side).

 

Any chance people will stop using the 'more experience side' empty argument any time soon. Doesn't matter how experienced they were, if they are over weight, lazy, disinterested and ****ed about like they were it doesn't matter if we had the Brazilian national team trying to keep us up.

[trousers]

More fool the person who sold 10,000 shares at a poultry 17.25 pence yesterday. If only they'd waited for the price to leap this morning on news that we're now out of the woods.

 

 

Another 6,807 just gone for a snip at 16.50p.....

[saintjay77]

That's a very good point. Our club has been decimated by Lowe since he returned (crassly - there were other ways to save money than introducing a policy of not playing experienced players to encourage them to leave and bring in a **** Dutrch coaching Cliffordesque bunch of con men.)

 

The team is where it is because Lowe has stripped it and experimented with it. Lowe has failed... but the team we have now is only slightly better than the one that was here 2 weeks ago, which in turn is nothing compared to last summer's (which barely survived). We are going down with out more men, returned loan strikers, Dyer and a new manager.

 

The counter argument to that is of course that the team has been decimated due to the need to reduce costs or else we go into admin. It is something that Lowe should have done each time a new manager brought in the next bus load of mercenaries, and something Wilde should have done when he removed Lowe, its also something Crouch should have done when he had his brieff spell at the top.

 

But its something that none of them did while we still had a decent revenue coming in and something that is all the more drastic now because ot it.

 

We really cant do anything at all about the Loaned Strikers or Dyer as they are all in there initial loan period and as such cant be recalled. Had any of them finished there initial loan period and had there loan extended then we have the option to recall them. Time to get over that one me thinks.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It has been spouted now for months that we would be losing our best players. No end of it from Lallana to Surman to Davis. Suddenly when that hasn't happened its because all our players are sh1t. We have recalled existing players and strengthened by adding. NOTHING has been taken away. No backward steps were taken. This is good news and should be embraced even if it was overseen by the pantomime hate figure.

 

To sell something you need to have buyers. To get buyers your product must be sensibly priced and of merchantable value (fit for purpose).

[Thedelldays]

To sell something you need to have buyers. To get buyers your product must be sensibly priced and of merchantable value (fit for purpose).

 

 

well..one or three or so of our player were in demand..

[CB Fry]

To sell something you need to have buyers. To get buyers your product must be sensibly priced and of merchantable value (fit for purpose).

 

So you are saying Surman, Davies, Lallana are all crap then? If they're not "fit for purpose" I take it were they sold to Sunderland, Reading and Fulham or whoever yesterday you wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

 

Right?

[Mole]

Question: Was it cheaper to buy a showroom wardrobe from MFI before or after they went bust?

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Norm]

Hallelujah. Post of the week Wes.

 

I know I'm world famous for jumping to (often wrong) conclusions but for people to be assuming that 'no sales' = 'club safe' are being too optimistic. It could just as logically mean the opposite.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with optimism of course!

 

 

 

I think it only fair that you should ask my permission, before putting my photo on here:rolleyes:

[RinNY]

Like most Lowe apologists you fail to think a little further as to why there might not have been these sales.

 

Could it be that the chairmen of other clubs are canny enough to realise that if they wait for us to go into receivership, they can get those players they want for far less than now? It isn't as if there have been many clubs fighting to buy any of our players, as none currently has set the world on fire recently, except perhaps KD.

 

That's the lovely thing about conspiracy theorists: when one conspiracy is shown up as wrong, they always have a few back-ups ready to go! *lol*

 

So now Lowe has been foiled in his evil plot to sell off all Saints' assets by conniving other Chairmen, who are waiting for a later firesale. Nice one. And what is option C. when that one doesn't pan out?

 

Btw, can the "Lowe-luvvie" crap: taking a rational, neutral view of things does not equate to "luvving" a man I don't know, don't care to know, and wish had been bought out of SFC years ago. But what did you all expect this year, with all the cost cutting and the enforced youth policy? From the beginning it's been a case of just hoping to avoid relegation and administration: now that we are indeed just fighting to avoid relegation and administration, you are horrified at how things are going? Wise up, do!

[lordswoodsaints]

If we had sold Surman, Davies and or Lallana then the likes of you would be screaming blue murder about how Lowe had sold our best players, ripped the heart out of the team etc etc etc.

 

Or are you saying that we could survive just as well without Kelvin and Drew and co? They're just players, we're rubbish and they are all replaceable?

 

You're beginning to sound like some evil money obsessed chairman.....

 

In the hysterics wing of this forum there is so much having your cake and eating it going on its untrue.

 

 

"We have no best players" I'd love to see the reaction if it was Lowe coming out and saying that as a justification for selling them.

 

 

none of our current squad of players deserves to have any praise heaped on them at all imo,with perhaps the exception of KD,they have all been equally crap all season ths is why we are where we are, this coupled with the appointment of crap managers.we as a club deserve to be relegated with the way the club has been run and the decisions that have been made,just because we survive a transfer window unscathed doesnt indicate any success imo.

do you think lallana is worth any great value? because i dont,he has done nothing to impress me all season and i couldnt care if he was sold or not,thats not to say that he couldnt become a geat player but if some premiership club wants to pay good money for him to sit on the bench or play for the reserves then they are fools.

we have no real quality in the team,nobody stands out as head and shoulders above anyone else and i for one wouldnt be upset about any of them leaving but the truth is nobody was interested in them as they are not good enough at the moment.

 

it is good that nobody was sold but it wont change our situation,we still have the same players playing the same crap football......what we failed to do was strengthen our squad with a bit of quality,a bit of experience was needed and it didnt happen.

 

anybody who says the transfer window has been a success is nuts imo,we are walking a tightrope and we had the chance to buy a quality harness to keep us up and it didnt happen so now we are in danger of falling,simple as that really.

[saintjay77]

none of our current squad of players deserves to have any praise heaped on them at all imo,with perhaps the exception of KD,they have all been equally crap all season ths is why we are where we are, this coupled with the appointment of crap managers.we as a club deserve to be relegated with the way the club has been run and the decisions that have been made,just because we survive a transfer window unscathed doesnt indicate any success imo.

do you think lallana is worth any great value? because i dont,he has done nothing to impress me all season and i couldnt care if he was sold or not,thats not to say that he couldnt become a geat player but if some premiership club wants to pay good money for him to sit on the bench or play for the reserves then they are fools.

we have no real quality in the team,nobody stands out as head and shoulders above anyone else and i for one wouldnt be upset about any of them leaving but the truth is nobody was interested in them as they are not good enough at the moment.

 

it is good that nobody was sold but it wont change our situation,we still have the same players playing the same crap football......what we failed to do was strengthen our squad with a bit of quality,a bit of experience was needed and it didnt happen.

 

anybody who says the transfer window has been a success is nuts imo,we are walking a tightrope and we had the chance to buy a quality harness to keep us up and it didnt happen so now we are in danger of falling,simple as that really.

 

I was understanding where you was coming from to a point untill that last bit. The situation we are in puts us into a position where we havnt got money to spend so we were no-where near having a chance to buy any real quality. At the very best we would take a punt on an unknown which is exacty what we have done IMO. So as far as realistic expectations we have done the best we can do. We have kept hold of all our players and even added a few. Will the squad be good enough to keep us up? Will find out over the next few weeks I guess. But if its not good enough then Admin will surly follow relegation. At least we can say the club tried can we not?

[Wes Tender]

That's the lovely thing about conspiracy theorists: when one conspiracy is shown up as wrong, they always have a few back-ups ready to go! *lol*

 

So now Lowe has been foiled in his evil plot to sell off all Saints' assets by conniving other Chairmen, who are waiting for a later firesale. Nice one. And what is option C. when that one doesn't pan out?

 

Btw, can the "Lowe-luvvie" crap: taking a rational, neutral view of things does not equate to "luvving" a man I don't know, don't care to know, and wish had been bought out of SFC years ago. But what did you all expect this year, with all the cost cutting and the enforced youth policy? From the beginning it's been a case of just hoping to avoid relegation and administration: now that we are indeed just fighting to avoid relegation and administration, you are horrified at how things are going? Wise up, do!

 

If you believe that what I wrote was part of some conspiracy theory, then you are deluding yourself. I have been in business long enough to know how things are done and even then, one doesn't have to be in business to know that certain tenets hold good and are mostly a matter of common sense. When Woolworths or MFI were deep in the mire, did the canny people make a bee line to those stores to buy as much as they could when the prices were at normal levels?

 

Or do you suggest that the chairmen of all the other clubs are too thick to reason it out for themselves? If you don't believe that this is the reason why they have not made offers for those players that are saleable, perhaps you will put across your reasons for why they have not done so. The other reasons could only be that either those players are deemed not to be good enough to attract serious money, or that the prospective buyers are themselves in financial difficulties, which would bring them back to waiting until the prices dropped in the event of us going under. Which do you think are the reasons?

 

What did I expect for this season? Well, as soon as Lowe and Wilde returned, I had a pretty good idea, especially when they got shot of Pearson and appointed the lightweight non-entities from Holland. I knew enough not to renew my ST. I also predicted on the poll at the time that we would be relegated. We aren't there yet, but then we would have to improve our own performance or hope that others are actually worse than us for us not to go down. So no shock horror from me.

[itchen]

Not that I am condoning the baiting from JFP as IMO its just as bad as the constant love in Stanley has with Rupes but to answer some of your points,

 

Could it be that by not keeping pearson, Loaning out our best players, Cheap coach brought in and playing the kids instead of the high earners has actually saved enough money to put us in a situation where we dont have to sell off the jewls at knock down prices?

 

Personally I wouldnt say it gives Roupes the thumbs up but I am a little happier that we are not weeker going into the rest of the season. Its going to be hard enough battling relegation as it is so to actually add to the playing staff rather then lose some of it has got to be a plus for the club right?

 

Quite agree. Additionally I'm sure it's true that the way our players have performed (Davis excepted) has lowered their value in the eyes of other clubs and so consequently any offers have been for less than Rupert thinks he could get later.

 

There is no black and white here where everything the board does is wrong (unless you're as blinkered as Rich...mond.............Sa...int). It's a bit facile not to see that some unpleasant cost cutting had to be done and that it would have an effect on the team's results (although we're in around the same position as at the end of last season, so maybe not). The hope is that we have cut costs enough to survive the threat of administration while keeping a squad strong enough to avoid relegation. And we'll only know whether those hopes have been fulfilled at the end of the season.

[lordswoodsaints]

I was understanding where you was coming from to a point untill that last bit. The situation we are in puts us into a position where we havnt got money to spend so we were no-where near having a chance to buy any real quality. At the very best we would take a punt on an unknown which is exacty what we have done IMO. So as far as realistic expectations we have done the best we can do. We have kept hold of all our players and even added a few. Will the squad be good enough to keep us up? Will find out over the next few weeks I guess. But if its not good enough then Admin will surly follow relegation. At least we can say the club tried can we not?

 

i understand that we are not able to buy anybody of real value but there must be somebody out there who could do a good job and is better than what we have, after all our standard of player at the moment isnt very high so there must be somebody looking for a fresh challenge who would raise the standard.

imo i dont believe that the club has done its best,if they had they would have recalled our loan players,all hands on deck and all that.

[um pahars]

Quite agree. Additionally I'm sure it's true that the way our players have performed (Davis excepted) has lowered their value in the eyes of other clubs and so consequently any offers have been for less than Rupert thinks he could get later.

 

I think there is some mileage in this point as well.

 

As Lordswood has quite rightly pointed out, with the exception of Davies, I don't think any player has really performed that well this season and quite frankly, I don't really think we have that many saleable assets.

 

Surman has gone off the boil and you would be buying him on the premise he can recapture some of his form from a while back. Lallana would definitely be bought only as a punt, because althoguh he undoubtedly has an abundance of talent, it hasn't manifested itself into a series of quality performances.

 

After that, I struggle to see who else other clubs would be interested in.

[St Marco]

It has been spouted now for months that we would be losing our best players. No end of it from Lallana to Surman to Davis. Suddenly when that hasn't happened its because all our players are sh1t. We have recalled existing players and strengthened by adding. NOTHING has been taken away. No backward steps were taken. This is good news and should be embraced even if it was overseen by the pantomime hate figure.

 

Haha classic!!

 

So let me get this straight.

 

Lowe should be praised because he rejected low offers for players?

 

The fact is offers came in for players and they were turned down because they were too low. That to me suggests they maybe wanted more money? The question then is what were the offers and who were the players?

A friend in the club told me a club in England has been interested in loaning Saga, 1 interested in Rudi and another interested in signing BWP. As far as i have heard those were the only 3 serious interests. Those who are more connected to the club then me might be able to shead more light on it then me.

Now all through the season scouts have been at the games watching our players, we know Fulham,Bolton have been watching Lallana and Surman supposedly has been watched by a few teams too. Now the fact they are still here to me suggests the offers did not come in for them. If they did not come in for them how can you praise a chairman for not accepting bids?!

Was it not his right hand man who said we will have to sell players in january? Was it not his right hand man who said just a few weeks ago that if Dyer and Saga returned the financial strain might be too much? And so on.

 

Form wise i can't blame any of those teams not coming in for those players, we're 2nd to bottom and they are not exactly playing great are they? Lallana has been pretty poor this season overall in my book.

But it's not like you to bait people Johnny

[CB Fry]

none of our current squad of players deserves to have any praise heaped on them at all imo,with perhaps the exception of KD,they have all been equally crap all season ths is why we are where we are, this coupled with the appointment of crap managers.we as a club deserve to be relegated with the way the club has been run and the decisions that have been made,just because we survive a transfer window unscathed doesnt indicate any success imo.

 

To be fair, the transfer window thing is more about hourly and daily predictions about "anyone of any value" or "anyone not nailed down" being sold "immediately" because "all he cares about is money" etc etc etc

 

And that didn't happen. So all the hysterics that had been saying this would happen are frankly wrong.

 

The same hysterics are now scrabbling around for a new conspiracy that they can fit into "Rupert's Plan to Kill the club on purpose" and it is quite amusing seeing the leaps of logic taken place.

 

Here's a couple already doing the rounds:

 

 

• The idea that not selling players is more evidence of us going into administration - as opposed to selling loads of players which would have meant we wouldn't be going into administration. Or something.
  

 

• The idea that because we haven't sold anyone the whole administration thing is one big fat lie sold to us by guess who to keep the fans in line and relegate us on purpose for a laugh. Or something.
  

 

And here's your leap of logic:

 

.....what we failed to do was strengthen our squad with a bit of quality,a bit of experience was needed and it didnt happen.

 

anybody who says the transfer window has been a success is nuts imo,we are walking a tightrope and we had the chance to buy a quality harness to keep us up and it didnt happen so now we are in danger of falling,simple as that really.

 

 

Oh, I see. Now it is all about us failing to buy players. Even though we are actually skint.

 

Not even the most feverish Hysterics were expecting significant signings during this window, but now there are no sales to moan about, lets pretend we had the opportunity to splash out on players after all.

 

 

Keep it coming chaps. I'm loving the "all our players are rubbish" stuff, I really am.

 

 

 

Look, we kept the squad together for the final push, which was as much as any of us expected on Jan 1st.

 

Please stop wasting energy fitting in some bonkers Lowe is evil conspiracy around our current situation and worry about this team and this manager staying up. Unlikely, I know, but still.....

[Norm]

From the first game (this season) at SMS, I said that we had the poorest squad of players in my memory, back as far as 1956. I stand by that point of view today.

 

As for other clubs coming in to buy, we really only have one player worth buying and that is KD imo, without him, well .........

 

As for us buying someone of talent, we don't have the cash to a, buy him and b, pay a decent wage.

 

Re bringing back our 'stars' out on loan, it's down to high wages that they are still out on loan.

 

All imho.

[um pahars]

Keep it coming chaps. I'm loving the "all our players are rubbish" stuff, I really am.

 

But don't you think there is an element of truth in that statement??

 

Firstly, as a team, we're second bottom after 30 games, so we're obviously not that good (although I accept having a Ducth Dinlo in charge hampered us somewhat).

 

Secondly, as individuals, the saleable assets haven't really stood out and justified their intial hype (and price tag we probably put on them).

 

Thirdly, I really would have expected us to sell at least a couple of players as although I'm sure the losses have been reduced, I can't believe we are not reliant on transfer income to keep us alfoat. The very fact we didn't would seem to indicate that people never came in with sizeable offers as they didn't rate any of our players.

 

I'm sure there are a number of other complicating and even conflicting reasons, but I don't think it's unfair to say that few of our current squad interest other teams!

[glkdcdes]

UNFAIR POST

none of our current squad of players deserves to have any praise heaped on them at all imo,with perhaps the exception of KD,they have all been equally crap all season ths is why we are where we are, this coupled with the appointment of crap managers.we as a club deserve to be relegated with the way the club has been run and the decisions that have been made,just because we survive a transfer window unscathed doesnt indicate any success imo.

do you think lallana is worth any great value? because i dont,he has done nothing to impress me all season and i couldnt care if he was sold or not,thats not to say that he couldnt become a geat player but if some premiership club wants to pay good money for him to sit on the bench or play for the reserves then they are fools.

we have no real quality in the team,nobody stands out as head and shoulders above anyone else and i for one wouldnt be upset about any of them leaving but the truth is nobody was interested in them as they are not good enough at the moment.

 

it is good that nobody was sold but it wont change our situation,we still have the same players playing the same crap football......what we failed to do was strengthen our squad with a bit of quality,a bit of experience was needed and it didnt happen.

 

anybody who says the transfer window has been a success is nuts imo,we are walking a tightrope and we had the chance to buy a quality harness to keep us up and it didnt happen so now we are in danger of falling,simple as that really.

 

Unfair comments. Our weakness has been in the leadership of the club. With the dishonest leadership we have at present the enviroment is not condusive for good results. Im sure many of our players in a different situation could do very well. If ever a season was ruined by one man it was this one when the idiot Lowe got rid of Pearson. Slagging off our players is diverting attention from the real problem.

[Mowgli]

We really need to move on from this point scoring - it does not do anyone any good really.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to have discussion about how we survive this season given that there will be no changes at board, managerial and playing level.... ....in other words, coaches and players need to dig deep and produce the results we know they are capable of. forget about the rest of it - its window dressing.

[LGTL]

Our saleable assets are Lallana, Skacel, Surman and Davis.

 

Lallana - Been injured the whole of January, not many Prem clubs will take a gamble with an unproven player, espicially in the January window.

 

Surman - Overrated anyway, not Prem standard IMO, would have gone to Reading if Hunt was sold, and that is fact.

 

Skacel - Attitude problem anyway, hardly played, so little wonder not many were interested.

 

Davis - Has stated he wants to stay here, regardless of interest.

 

So, in conclusion, players would have been sold if there was enough interest, or if they were even good enough.

[saintjay77]

i understand that we are not able to buy anybody of real value but there must be somebody out there who could do a good job and is better than what we have, after all our standard of player at the moment isnt very high so there must be somebody looking for a fresh challenge who would raise the standard.

imo i dont believe that the club has done its best,if they had they would have recalled our loan players,all hands on deck and all that.

 

Fair enough there may have been better out there but Maleneux (spel?) has looked OK in 1 game and not so good in another but he has only been here a short time so I am prepared to give him a little longer. Size has turned out to be OK so far and we havent even seen Zoltan play yet so cant honestly say if he will be any good or not yet, although I concede my hopes for him are not that high.

 

But what part of not being able to recall our loan players do people not get? If a player gets loaned for 1 month from anywhere then the parent club are not alloud to recall him. Its in the rules FFS! Not something that Lowe has messed up on. Its the same for every club. If that loan is extended for a further month that is when the recall clause kicks in. Again its the same for every club!!!

 

Our loaned out players are all still in there initial loan period and there for stuck in there agrement. We are unable to recall them even if we wanted too.

 

Maybe it wasnt a bright idea sending Dyer, Rasiak or John off on a long term loans but to be fair we are in a bit of a finacial hole at the time and no doubt the clubs they were going too had something to do with the length of the loan too.

 

When they were loaned out though many accepted that it was to save money as it was Crouch who loaned out Rasiak and they accepted losing Dyer as he was arse and wasnt fit to wear the shirt, many were a bit miffed when we let John go too as we had nothing left in the tank but it could be that these decissions meant we were able to keep hold of our squad in this window and not beesn forced to accept ridiculas offers.

[lordswoodsaints]

To be fair, the transfer window thing is more about hourly and daily predictions about "anyone of any value" or "anyone not nailed down" being sold "immediately" because "all he cares about is money" etc etc etc

 

And that didn't happen. So all the hysterics that had been saying this would happen are frankly wrong.

 

The same hysterics are now scrabbling around for a new conspiracy that they can fit into "Rupert's Plan to Kill the club on purpose" and it is quite amusing seeing the leaps of logic taken place.

 

Here's a couple already doing the rounds:

 

 

• The idea that not selling players is more evidence of us going into administration - as opposed to selling loads of players which would have meant we wouldn't be going into administration. Or something.
  

 

• The idea that because we haven't sold anyone the whole administration thing is one big fat lie sold to us by guess who to keep the fans in line and relegate us on purpose for a laugh. Or something.
  

 

And here's your leap of logic:

 

 

 

 

Oh, I see. Now it is all about us failing to buy players. Even though we are actually skint.

 

Not even the most feverish Hysterics were expecting significant signings during this window, but now there are no sales to moan about, lets pretend we had the opportunity to splash out on players after all.

 

 

Keep it coming chaps. I'm loving the "all our players are rubbish" stuff, I really am.

 

 

 

Look, we kept the squad together for the final push, which was as much as any of us expected on Jan 1st.

 

Please stop wasting energy fitting in some bonkers Lowe is evil conspiracy around our current situation and worry about this team and this manager staying up. Unlikely, I know, but still.....

 

where have i mentioned lowe?

 

the truth is,our squad deserves to be where it is because they are not good enough,we can also chuck into the pot the fact that we havnt had good management on and off the field......that is the truth,however you want to dress it up.

nobody wanted our players because they are not good enough and buying them wouldnt improve their squads.we have what we have but i refuse to believe that we couldnt have bought in a couple of experiened players(im not talking beckham or robinho etc:rolleyes:) but a couple of old experienced heads in the twilight of their careers who wouldnt cost a lot and wouldnt command stupid wages but know how to play football and at least give us a fighting chance to stay up.

to continue with our current squad without any add ons will only see us stay where we are,they are unlikely to get any better and we will continue to struggle for points.

 

as i said in my previous post,it is a good thing that we didnt sell anybody but we didnt add anybody either (of any note) ,so expect more of the same for the remainder of the season.

[Wes Tender]

as i said in my previous post,it is a good thing that we didnt sell anybody but we didnt add anybody either (of any note) ,so expect more of the same for the remainder of the season.

 

Our only hope is that Wotte on so far patchy evidence appears to be less clueless than Poortvliet was. At least he has put out teams that have more of a blend between youth and experience and he has learned the lesson that we are more effective playing in a different formation to the one dimensional JP way.

[SaintRichmond]

Because, as you seem not to have grasped, the club was millions of pounds in debt and running at a massive loss. Therefore, we can't just continue to spunk money away. If in the first half of this season we have been able to reduce running costs enough to afford another higher earner, then that is good news.

 

Simply saying "WE SHOULD SPEND MONEY YOU IDIOTS" at the board, is very silly and leads me to believe you have issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When did I say exactly that ??

 

I have "grasped" the fact that we are in debt, but YOU will not grasp the fact that Lowe is primarily reponsible for that debt

 

"Spunk money away" Again, Lowe's Business mentality does NOT work.

He gets rid of GOALSCORERS because they cost a lot, but WHY do they cost a lot ... because they SCORE GOALS

 

So, Lowe's brainchild of throwing the Young Players to the wolves backfires, and so does his "Dutch Masters" concept of Total Football., and all that at the expense of firing Pearson because he was not a Lowe Glove Puppet

 

Thanks to everything that Lowe has done, our Gates have fallen dramatically, so the "money" he may have gained by not having to pay GOALSCORERS, has been well and truly wiped out by the reduction in Revenue from attendances

 

We are now at the wrong end of the table, and odds on for Relegation

 

"Reducing running costs" .. I don't think so. As mentioned, our massive drop in attendances more than compensates for the supposed savings

 

Lowe's major fault always was, and always will be the fact that he runs the PLC just as a PLC. He has no time for Football, and cares not what happens on the pitch.

 

Agreed, you must not overspend any "business", but at the same time, in Football, you should NOT try to be successful in the CCC, with a Team Asset stripped so much, that it would currently be hard pressed to be successful in the Blue Square Premier

 

The more Lowe devalues the Team, the further it will fall, and along with it, so will the Support, and monies to keep it going

 

Lowe has NEVER put any money into the Club, nor has he attracted one pound of Investment, and he never will

 

He is a Part Time Chairman, with a Part Time attitude to SAINTS

 

He has nearly destroyed us, so I hope that you, and ALL Lowe Luvvies are now very happy about that

[saintjay77]

where have i mentioned lowe?

 

the truth is,our squad deserves to be where it is because they are not good enough,we can also chuck into the pot the fact that we havnt had good management on and off the field......that is the truth,however you want to dress it up.

nobody wanted our players because they are not good enough and buying them wouldnt improve their squads.we have what we have but i refuse to believe that we couldnt have bought in a couple of experiened players(im not talking beckham or robinho etc:rolleyes:) but a couple of old experienced heads in the twilight of their careers who wouldnt cost a lot and wouldnt command stupid wages but know how to play football and at least give us a fighting chance to stay up.

to continue with our current squad without any add ons will only see us stay where we are,they are unlikely to get any better and we will continue to struggle for points.

 

as i said in my previous post,it is a good thing that we didnt sell anybody but we didnt add anybody either (of any note) ,so expect more of the same for the remainder of the season.

 

 

Has that worked for us in the past? Not trying to be funny but look at the past 5 years and we have tried to rely on has beens and older heads and it hasnt exactly got us anywhere. Whats wrong with trying something different?

 

JP got the mix wrong but Wotte seems to be trying a different blend of youth and experience. He still wants to bring the kids through and build our team from the acadamy but not alienating the older heads seems to have been a good start to helping the kids out.

 

If the team are doing the business by the end of the season and we are safe whilst using a couple of un-known hungarian national belly dancers would you then concede that the options we have taken do have some millage in actually trying to take us forward?

[View From The Top]

Whilst I'm glad we didn't sell anyone forgive me for not jumping up and down with excitement it as one look at the league table tells me the truth about Lowe and his experiment.

 

How many actually believe we would be in this position if we hadn't shipped out all three of our decent strikers? The decision to do so tells me more about Lowe than not selling anyone when he are deep in the mire.

[saintjay77]

Whilst I'm glad we didn't sell anyone forgive me for not jumping up and down with excitement it as one look at the league table tells me the truth about Lowe and his experiment.

 

How many actually believe we would be in this position if we hadn't shipped out all three of our decent strikers? The decision to do so tells me more about Lowe than not selling anyone when he are deep in the mire.

 

I am not excited when i look at the league either and to be honest I expected us to be a little further up. I didnt expect us to be in a relegation fight but I also didnt expect us to be pushing for play offs.

 

Had we not shipped out our 3 decent strikers we might not be able to fend off any silly offers for our players this January. Or maybe we would be sitting below Charlton -10 points with any remaining half decent players jumping the sinking ship as that man with the funny voice trys to please our creditors?

 

maybe we would have scored the goals we needed and our defence were magically improved by keeping those strikers and as such we didnt ship 20 odd goals?

 

Fact is we are where we are and this jan has been marginally better than what was expected.

[RinNY]

If you believe that what I wrote was part of some conspiracy theory, then you are deluding yourself. I have been in business long enough to know how things are done and even then, one doesn't have to be in business to know that certain tenets hold good and are mostly a matter of common sense. When Woolworths or MFI were deep in the mire, did the canny people make a bee line to those stores to buy as much as they could when the prices were at normal levels?

 

Or do you suggest that the chairmen of all the other clubs are too thick to reason it out for themselves? If you don't believe that this is the reason why they have not made offers for those players that are saleable, perhaps you will put across your reasons for why they have not done so. The other reasons could only be that either those players are deemed not to be good enough to attract serious money, or that the prospective buyers are themselves in financial difficulties, which would bring them back to waiting until the prices dropped in the event of us going under. Which do you think are the reasons?

 

What did I expect for this season? Well, as soon as Lowe and Wilde returned, I had a pretty good idea, especially when they got shot of Pearson and appointed the lightweight non-entities from Holland. I knew enough not to renew my ST. I also predicted on the poll at the time that we would be relegated. We aren't there yet, but then we would have to improve our own performance or hope that others are actually worse than us for us not to go down. So no shock horror from me.

 

 

No need to sugest any theory: we were told before the transfer window opened, by those actually running the club and therefore genuinely "in the know", that no players would be sold unless irresistably attractive offers were made. And that is exactly what happened. no players were sold, because no irresistable offers were made. There is no need to theorize about other Chairmen conspiring against us, or waiting for a post administration firesale, or whatever. And btw, running a football club is not like buying goods at Woolies. When you are working to avoid releation, win promotion, or establish a competitive teram, you buy the players you think will help you at the price you can afford to pay as soon as you are able to. Waiting to buy players at "firesale prices" is a sure recipe for disaster! You won't have the players you need, when you need them. So, ok you can say our players aren't good enough at present to command high fees: that is obviously and triviall true, so don't expect much kudos for noticing it. It still remains the case that the doom & gloomers were confidentyly aanticipating a firesale this Januarty (don't know off hand if you were one), and it has not happened.

 

We are fighting to remain solvent and in the CCC: that is from last summer what this season has been about, and we have not yet failed on either front.

[CB Fry]

But don't you think there is an element of truth in that statement??

 

Firstly, as a team, we're second bottom after 30 games, so we're obviously not that good (although I accept having a Ducth Dinlo in charge hampered us somewhat).

 

Secondly, as individuals, the saleable assets haven't really stood out and justified their intial hype (and price tag we probably put on them).

 

Thirdly, I really would have expected us to sell at least a couple of players as although I'm sure the losses have been reduced, I can't believe we are not reliant on transfer income to keep us alfoat. The very fact we didn't would seem to indicate that people never came in with sizeable offers as they didn't rate any of our players.

 

I'm sure there are a number of other complicating and even conflicting reasons, but I don't think it's unfair to say that few of our current squad interest other teams!

 

 

Of course there's an element of truth in it.

 

We are where we are and most of us know why.

 

All that amuses me over the last couple of days is the desperate reformatting of arguments now that the accepted wisdom "everyone that could be sold will be sold" has proved to not be the case.

 

People on here had Lallana and Surman "flogged to the highest bidder in January" after they'd played two good games in a row in September. And all the Hystericals decided that was truth and that was that.

 

Anyone who challenged that accepted truth was shouted down.

 

And when the club came out and said "no players would be sold" in the first week of Jan, the Hystericals said they were lying, it was Lowe propaganda and all the rest of it.

 

But that is exactly what has happened. If it was Leon Crouch making and fulfilling a promise like that you wouldn't be able to move for the Hystericals queuing round the block to su ck him off.

 

I don't expect anyone to thank Lowe for anything, I want him gone as you well know.

 

But for pete's sake - all in all, a pretty good window.

 

 

What's amusing is people aren't happy to accept that as quite a good thing, and instead have to weave silly new theories.

Edited 3 February, 2009 by CB Fry

[JustMike]

No need to sugest any theory: we were told before the transfer window opened, by those actually running the club and therefore genuinely "in the know", that no players would be sold unless irresistably attractive offers were made. And that is exactly what happened. no players were sold, because no irresistable offers were made. There is no need to theorize about other Chairmen conspiring against us, or waiting for a post administration firesale, or whatever. And btw, running a football club is not like buying goods at Woolies. When you are working to avoid releation, win promotion, or establish a competitive teram, you buy the players you think will help you at the price you can afford to pay as soon as you are able to. Waiting to buy players at "firesale prices" is a sure recipe for disaster! You won't have the players you need, when you need them. So, ok you can say our players aren't good enough at present to command high fees: that is obviously and triviall true, so don't expect much kudos for noticing it. It still remains the case that the doom & gloomers were confidentyly aanticipating a firesale this Januarty (don't know off hand if you were one), and it has not happened.

 

We are fighting to remain solvent and in the CCC: that is from last summer what this season has been about, and we have not yet failed on either front.

 

and yet we remain 2nd bottom? Rasiak STILL onloan to a rival relegation club. So if you think that things are all good just because we managed to keep hold of Surman et al you are deluded. The "offers" that came in, i bet my house on it were very low indeed, probably clubs trying their luck with cash strapped saints. So what then if we do go down? Lowe still high in your estimates. And what of the JP disaster and the yet to be proven Wotte experiment. Surely a man of lowes stature in your opinion would have learnt from past mistakes..but then again, maybe not

[lordswoodsaints]

Has that worked for us in the past? Not trying to be funny but look at the past 5 years and we have tried to rely on has beens and older heads and it hasnt exactly got us anywhere. Whats wrong with trying something different?

 

JP got the mix wrong but Wotte seems to be trying a different blend of youth and experience. He still wants to bring the kids through and build our team from the acadamy but not alienating the older heads seems to have been a good start to helping the kids out.

 

If the team are doing the business by the end of the season and we are safe whilst using a couple of un-known hungarian national belly dancers would you then concede that the options we have taken do have some millage in actually trying to take us forward?

 

yes it has worked for us in the past,maybe not recent past but it has worked,lawrie mac had a great blend of old heads ball,channon,osgood and youth williams, moran etc and it worked perfectly....perhaps thats what we should be doing today.

wotte has shown that he is not as rigid in his team selections and line ups as JP was and i applaud him for that but we could do with a bit more experience imo.

we have had a problem at this club for a few years of paying experienced players good money not to perform and this is not what we need or want.wotton and perry are good examples of experience on a budget and this is what we need.

 

i applaud that we need to try the youth as we are not as flush as we would like to be but it shouldnt be relied upon,there has to be other options for when it goes t1ts up like it is now.

if we survive i will be the first to admit that perhaps things have gone right because survival has always been the realistic option for us this season but i just think more could have been done to give us a better chance of surviving.

[Thedelldays]

Of course there's an element of truth in it.

 

We are where we are and most of us know why.

 

All that amuses me over the last couple of days is the desperate reformatting of arguments now that the accepted wisdom "everyone that could be sold will be sold" has proved to not be the case.

 

People on here had Lallana and Surman "flogged to the highest bidder in January" after they'd played two good games in a row in September. And all the Hystericals decided that was truth and that was that.

 

Anyone who challenged that accepted truth was shouted down.

 

And when the club came out and said "no players would be sold" in the first week of Jan, the Hystericals said they were lying, it was Lowe propaganda and all the rest of it.

 

But that is exactly what has happened. If it was Leon Crouch making and fulfilling a promise like that you wouldn't be able to move for the Hystericals queuing round the block to su ck him off.

 

I don't expect anyone to thank Lowe for anything, I want him gone as you well know.

 

But for pete's sake - all in all, a pretty good window.

 

 

What's amusing is people aren't happy to accept that as quite a good thing, and instead have to weave silly new theories.

 

 

yep..agree with that

[saintjay77]

Can players still be loaned out? If so i expect that to happen to a few.

 

I guess they can when the loan window opens but im not sure its open to everyone. Would be a nightmare if ater keeping our squad together in the window we go and arse it up by loaning any of our better players to those we are in a relegation fight with.

[View From The Top]

Had we not shipped out our 3 decent strikers we might not be able to fend off any silly offers for our players this January.

 

So you're telling me that the salaries of our sh it loanees in total don't tot up to be close to Sagas?

[offix]

It has been spouted now for months that we would be losing our best players. No end of it from Lallana to Surman to Davis. Suddenly when that hasn't happened its because all our players are sh1t. We have recalled existing players and strengthened by adding. NOTHING has been taken away. No backward steps were taken. This is good news and should be embraced even if it was overseen by the pantomime hate figure.

 

Wow, there is something that he doesn't screw up worse than he already did.

I love him now!!

[Fan The Flames]

Of course there's an element of truth in it.

 

We are where we are and most of us know why.

 

All that amuses me over the last couple of days is the desperate reformatting of arguments now that the accepted wisdom "everyone that could be sold will be sold" has proved to not be the case.

 

People on here had Lallana and Surman "flogged to the highest bidder in January" after they'd played two good games in a row in September. And all the Hystericals decided that was truth and that was that.

 

Anyone who challenged that accepted truth was shouted down.

 

And when the club came out and said "no players would be sold" in the first week of Jan, the Hystericals said they were lying, it was Lowe propaganda and all the rest of it.

 

But that is exactly what has happened. If it was Leon Crouch making and fulfilling a promise like that you wouldn't be able to move for the Hystericals queuing round the block to su ck him off.

 

I don't expect anyone to thank Lowe for anything, I want him gone as you well know.

 

But for pete's sake - all in all, a pretty good window.

 

 

What's amusing is people aren't happy to accept that as quite a good thing, and instead have to weave silly new theories.

 

I'm sorry but you are wrong, people may have said stuff along the lines of I expect Surman, Davis, Lallana will be sold come January especially when we were moving the high earners out on loan. We were told by sources that the club finances were very bad and it seemed reasonable that come January any sensible bid would be considered.

 

No one stated it as fact and shouted down people who disagreed with it, you are the one being hysterical now.

 

I still believe that the club would have considered any sensible bid for any player and personally believe that no one made such a bid. I havn’t seen our players being linked with anyone for ages, its been very light on the rumour front all window so I conclude, impo, that the club hasn't had to resist one decent offer for any of our players.

 

Also if you paid closer attention to what people have said you would have realised that it wasn't a conspiracy theory but the guy was simply claiming that not selling players was as likely to mean we are going into administration as it was to mean we were not. Not an anti-Lowe theory at all.

 

Also we were definitely told that the finances were bad at the beginning of the season, a legacy of the former board etc etc, therefore players and managers had to be moved on. Things have either improved or they were not as bad as first made out. Not a conspiracy theory, more of a simple question which one is it.

[Weston Super Saint]

It has been spouted now for months that we would be losing our best players. No end of it from Lallana to Surman to Davis. Suddenly when that hasn't happened its because all our players are sh1t. We have recalled existing players and strengthened by adding. NOTHING has been taken away. No backward steps were taken. This is good news and should be embraced even if it was overseen by the pantomime hate figure.

 

On the other hand it could be said they are still [grudgingly] here because noone offered what Lowe was willing to accept.

 

Without knowing the FACTS we will never know.

[spain saint]

 

I'm sorry but you are wrong, people may have said stuff along the lines of I expect Surman, Davis, Lallana will be sold come January especially when we were moving the high earners out on loan. We were told by sources that the club finances were very bad and it seemed reasonable that come January any sensible bid would be considered.

 

No one stated it as fact and shouted down people who disagreed with it, you are the one being hysterical now.

 

I still believe that the club would have considered any sensible bid for any player and personally believe that no one made such a bid. I havn’t seen our players being linked with anyone for ages, its been very light on the rumour front all window so I conclude, impo, that the club hasn't had to resist one decent offer for any of our players.

 

Also if you paid closer attention to what people have said you would have realised that it wasn't a conspiracy theory but the guy was simply claiming that not selling players was as likely to mean we are going into administration as it was to mean we were not. Not an anti-Lowe theory at all.

 

Also we were definitely told that the finances were bad at the beginning of the season, a legacy of the former board etc etc, therefore players and managers had to be moved on. Things have either improved or they were not as bad as first made out. Not a conspiracy theory, more of a simple question which one is it.

 

 

I agree. The club ie. Lowe, Wilde etc did feed us all with stories of bad finances and point scoring statements of how the previous chairman had left us seriously in the kaka and how we would probably have to sell off more players in January. So I think it is pretty rational to ask questions now as to why we didnt sell anyone.(i am glad we didnt by the way!)

 

Were their no high enough bids? Have we improved the finances that much that we didn't have to sell anyone? or Were the finances exageratted at the start of the season?

 

All valid questions that maybe we should be asking and the club should be answering.

[spain saint]

It has been spouted now for months that we would be losing our best players. No end of it from Lallana to Surman to Davis. Suddenly when that hasn't happened its because all our players are sh1t. We have recalled existing players and strengthened by adding. NOTHING has been taken away. No backward steps were taken. This is good news and should be embraced even if it was overseen by the pantomime hate figure.

 

TBF we could of only taken one more step backwards but Charlton are slightly worse than us!

[VectisSaint]

It has been spouted now for months that we would be losing our best players. No end of it from Lallana to Surman to Davis. Suddenly when that hasn't happened its because all our players are sh1t. We have recalled existing players and strengthened by adding. NOTHING has been taken away. No backward steps were taken. This is good news and should be embraced even if it was overseen by the pantomime hate figure.

One of the daftest posts recently, and that takes some doing.

Please tell me who are the players that we have recalled? Do you think we recalled Sag, we didn't his loan deal came to an end. I know, you meant Dyer, but then we shipped him out again, so not only did we not recall him, but he actually comes under the category of "has been taken away". You do know there is a loan window I suppose, so players might still leave. I note you also failed to mention that Lowe's pet project ended in the loss of our head coach who was pivotal to the revolution that would see us leading the world in sexy football, strange that. Lets look at what we have added, a central defender who failed to get a deal at Stevenage, a LB who gets sent off, and to show I have a balanced view, a seemingly good CB (signed by Wotte while Lowe is off getting piste).

 

We are 2nd bottom of Division 2, Lowe will continue to be the focus of much scorn (hate is a bit silly for grownups, but then someone who calls themselves Fart Pants probably wouldn't know about that), as will Wilde who is the cause of so many of the problems at SMS, not least by allowing Lowe to come back with his mad experiments.

 

Come back with some other little message when you have something more sensible to say.

[CB Fry]

 

I'm sorry but you are wrong, people may have said stuff along the lines of I expect Surman, Davis, Lallana will be sold come January especially when we were moving the high earners out on loan. We were told by sources that the club finances were very bad and it seemed reasonable that come January any sensible bid would be considered.

 

No one stated it as fact and shouted down people who disagreed with it, you are the one being hysterical now.

 

I still believe that the club would have considered any sensible bid for any player and personally believe that no one made such a bid. I havn’t seen our players being linked with anyone for ages, its been very light on the rumour front all window so I conclude, impo, that the club hasn't had to resist one decent offer for any of our players.

 

Also if you paid closer attention to what people have said you would have realised that it wasn't a conspiracy theory but the guy was simply claiming that not selling players was as likely to mean we are going into administration as it was to mean we were not. Not an anti-Lowe theory at all.

 

Also we were definitely told that the finances were bad at the beginning of the season, a legacy of the former board etc etc, therefore players and managers had to be moved on. Things have either improved or they were not as bad as first made out. Not a conspiracy theory, more of a simple question which one is it.

 

 

I take it you've never read the work of SaintRichmond, then?

 

We haven't sold anyone, which I think is a pretty good result and a lot better than many were expecting, including me.

 

Why people can't just accept that as a "pretty good thing" is beyond me.

 

Whichever way you look at it, there are plenty of posters smarting over the fact that we haven't sold anyone because it blows their prejudices into pieces for now and they can't churn out their usual one-note one-eyed horse-sh it.

 

It's just a shame because some people just cannot see the world (and the world of Saints especially) in shades of grey.

Edited 3 February, 2009 by CB Fry

[saintjay77]

So you're telling me that the salaries of our sh it loanees in total don't tot up to be close to Sagas?

 

So I gave 3 or 4 maybe's and you take 1 and still dont even get that one right?

 

Saga, Rasiak, John and Skacel had all been loaned out which would have saved us x £'s right? AD got sold which also saved us more £'s right? I dont know the ins and outs of things but IMO there is no way the club would have brought in the dross that they have for the same cost as they have loaned out so IMO the wages saved far exceed the wages that the loanee's coming in have cost us.

 

Come on we are talking about Rupert friggin Lowe FFS!!! When has he ever spent big on players and wages?

 

Im not saying what came in was any good or wasnt a further waste of money but in 1 breath people have a go because Rupes wont spend money and in the next breath he spends more than we have saved.

[View From The Top]

Im not saying what came in was any good or wasnt a further waste of money but in 1 breath people have a go because Rupes wont spend money and in the next breath he spends more than we have saved.

 

So the sh it loaness in cost more than Sagas salary, at a time when it was obvious we were desperate for goals, as any idiot could see.

 

Good that you see the idiotic false economy that your beloved leader imposes on us.

[Thedelldays]

So the sh it loaness in cost more than Sagas salary, at a time when it was obvious we were desperate for goals, as any idiot could see.

 

Good that you see the idiotic false economy that your beloved leader imposes on us.

this is why debate on here should be reserved for the spastics...

 

now, if you dare to look at something from another point, just to look at alternatives which will raise valid questions..you are slated called a lowe luvvie and told he is your beloved leader