alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461 The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury... Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...
toofarnorth Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I think Skacel could play a useful part in our current team and also Euell for that fact. Dont think they weren't invloved because they couldn't play the new system just that Jan thought they'd be gone by now.
Phil the Saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461 The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury... Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast... Both are failures quite happy to see neither them in the 1st team again. Especially Euell who can't trap a bag of cement. Over paid and legends in their own minds.
Give it to Ron Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Well what else are we meant to do with 2 players that we can't shift on? They are decent players and if people cut out all this bullcrap about total football and see what actually is happening on the pitch just maybe we will get somewhere. Euell had a pretty decent pre-season and could be a good addition to the squad up front as a sub - has height and can score goals - Wolves away last minute? Why do people expect anything else but hype from the OS do they expect them to say....we can't sell them because they are crap and no-one else will be mug enough to pay them?
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?
Weston Super Saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Well what else are we meant to do with 2 players that we can't shift on? They are decent players and if people cut out all this bullcrap about total football and see what actually is happening on the pitch just maybe we will get somewhere. Euell had a pretty decent pre-season and could be a good addition to the squad up front as a sub - has height and can score goals - Wolves away last minute? Why do people expect anything else but hype from the OS do they expect them to say....we can't sell them because they are crap and no-one else will be mug enough to pay them? Would make a refreshing change...
Minty Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? Two extra players in the squad is far from 'a complete waste of pre-season'... they will be expected to fit into the squad and the style of play accordingly... none of that will change. I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion Alpine.
Give it to Ron Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Would make a refreshing change... Agreed but not great for team or player morale especially if you expect them to play again for you.
Weston Super Saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Agreed but not great for team or player morale especially if you expect them to play again for you. Unlike the manager / chairman stating publically that they had no place in the team??? :smt102
toofarnorth Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? He new we were pretty screwed financially before he came, but even he must be a bit crestfallen at seeing some of his youngsters now being touted for moves away. I dont think it marks the end of JP and Lowes plans but they are having to be hastily reworked and tweeked.
ladysaint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 IBut for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... When did we last have a preseason that was of any significance, we always seem to waste the time and IMO this is the most crucial part of the season to get a settled squad together.
66East Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 On the one hand, it'll be good if they stay and are integrated into the team. On the other hand, we'll still be paying two high earners which we really could do with shifting. Don't be surprised if both are loaned out on the final day of the window, just to get them off the wage bill.
Give it to Ron Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? I don't understand why though ...some of the criticism on here from Saturday is that JP only has one plan....these 2 players will allow an alternative? I think JP will be pleased to have 2 more players at his disposal.
Killer Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 interesting that their is no Dyer and i'm surprised that no scottish clubs have come in for rudi after his previous success up their.
ottery st mary Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Two extra players in the squad is far from 'a complete waste of pre-season'... they will be expected to fit into the squad and the style of play accordingly... none of that will change. I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion Alpine. They are two very good pros at the top of their game and fitness who will kiss the badge and play for the club tonight because they are paid by Saints and have loyalty......Wake up me...They will play out of their skin tonight because someone is watching with a good contract.Or play like they did most games last season because noone is interested at their price even with us offering some of the wages. I can see why JP has sleepless nights with his team selection. Bring on the yuf..
Rebel Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? can you just shoot yourself and get it over and done with
Wes Tender Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 That seems a half decent team with a blend of youth and experience. And just to think that they can be watched for free whilst playing at home, whereas their counterparts in the first team will cost £25 to watch;) And these are precisely the lads who will be introduced into the first team over the next few months as one by one the youngsters who show any promise at all will depart for pastures greener.
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 On the one hand, it'll be good if they stay and are integrated into the team. On the other hand, we'll still be paying two high earners which we really could do with shifting. Don't be surprised if both are loaned out on the final day of the window, just to get them off the wage bill. Always a possibility, of course. Though I reckon that the longer it takes, the more likely we will be paying part of the wages in such a deal. And there is always the chance fo them going to our opposition.... Then we wont even have the booby prize from Davies's sale.......
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 I don't understand why though ...some of the criticism on here from Saturday is that JP only has one plan....these 2 players will allow an alternative? I think JP will be pleased to have 2 more players at his disposal. Because we keep being told that they dont fit in and are the past as a point of principle, etc.. I hope that this was a case of JP not being allowed to work with them, they are coming back into contention as a sop to fans anger, and that now he can work with them, he might get them firing on all cylinders.
The Godfather Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 That seems a half decent team with a blend of youth and experience. And just to think that they can be watched for free whilst playing at home, whereas their counterparts in the first team will cost £25 to watch;) And these are precisely the lads who will be introduced into the first team over the next few months as one by one the youngsters who show any promise at all will depart for pastures greener. They are better to watch I agree but the way things are going this season outcome is only going oneway, Relegation.
AwaySaint1 Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Presumably Dyer is still taking it in the gob for fives in Winchester public toilets ouch that post stings,I have just told myself that there is no way that post would of been made by a full member. I look under your usename and what did I see? "Registered member".
Alanh Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 So last week we had a thread started by the same poster asking why we aren't playing SKacel if only to put him in the shop window, and now we have a thread criticising JP and Lowe for Mark Wotte's decision to include him in a reserve match. I don't see how the management of the club can make a decision which will make the original poster happy. FWIW I think JP expected Skacel and Euell to be gone by now so didn't include him in his plans. If it turns out that one or both of them stay then they add options to the squad. They may not e first choice immediately but I'm sure they'll be given the opportunity to prove themselves, and if they do, I'm sure they will get into the team.
Give it to Ron Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Because we keep being told that they dont fit in and are the past as a point of principle, etc.. I hope that this was a case of JP not being allowed to work with them, they are coming back into contention as a sop to fans anger, and that now he can work with them, he might get them firing on all cylinders. I am hopefully going tonite so will let you know! The thing also about pre-season doesn't also matter too much for us a Ladysaint said..we always waste it, however, looking at the side Saturday McGoldrick, Llalana, Gillette, James, Thomson plus the other subs have played together for years so do know each others games far better than many of the sides we have had at the start of the season in recent years.
Window Cleaner Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 So last week we had a thread started by the same poster asking why we aren't playing SKacel if only to put him in the shop window, and now we have a thread criticising JP and Lowe for Mark Wotte's decision to include him in a reserve match. I don't see how the management of the club can make a decision which will make the original poster happy. FWIW I think JP expected Skacel and Euell to be gone by now so didn't include him in his plans. If it turns out that one or both of them stay then they add options to the squad. They may not e first choice immediately but I'm sure they'll be given the opportunity to prove themselves, and if they do, I'm sure they will get into the team. Well I would think that they might stay actually. Would think we've trimmed the wage bill by about 4.5 million a year so far (with Davies going ) and amassed about 4.5 million for the kitty (Bale add on, Davies,Safri, Crouch sell on and odds and ends). Doubt if we put much up front to get Schneiderlin. Probably not even half of "rising to 1.5 million euros" .We'll see if they have as yet learned the humility and selflessness needed to play in Jan's system,what he called 'getting his head right" when apparently referring to Skacel.
OldNick Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 can you just shoot yourself and get it over and done with Unsurprisingly I LOL'd
mynameisthehulk Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? Why though Alps? Both players you have mentioned could easily play in a couple of positions in the new formation. Skacel can play on the left or as the amc, Euell can play amc or up top. If we are forced to keep them both, or sales of other players leave us in a position to keep them both, then they can become assests to the squad IMO.
OldNick Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 The relish Alpne takes in anything that might go wrong would be amusing if it wasn't every day. A blunderbus approach.If he sprays out enough shot sooner of later he might hit the target and be right in an assessment.
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 So last week we had a thread started by the same poster asking why we aren't playing SKacel if only to put him in the shop window, and now we have a thread criticising JP and Lowe for Mark Wotte's decision to include him in a reserve match. I don't see how the management of the club can make a decision which will make the original poster happy. Wasnt aware I was criticizing. In fact, I am sure I commented that I am somewhat pleased. Therefore, I am consistent with last wek. Hell, dont let something as simple as reading the post get in the way though. I do find it ironic that as soon as Lowe's best-laid plans fall apart at the seams, the squad takes a huge leap in direction. Beginning to feel quite sorry for JP. After all, he's trying to build a team and a style of play.
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 Unsurprisingly I LOL'd Indeed, unsurprisingly, considering your intolerance to other perspectives.
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 The relish Alpne takes in anything that might go wrong would be amusing if it wasn't every day. A blunderbus approach.If he sprays out enough shot sooner of later he might hit the target and be right in an assessment. Another one who failled his SATS reading test....
Redondo Saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Always a possibility, of course. Though I reckon that the longer it takes, the more likely we will be paying part of the wages in such a deal. And there is always the chance fo them going to our opposition.... Then we wont even have the booby prize from Davies's sale....... There you go again! You just can't help it can you?
Minty Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Wasnt aware I was criticizing. In fact, I am sure I commented that I am somewhat pleased. Therefore, I am consistent with last wek. Hell, dont let something as simple as reading the post get in the way though. I do find it ironic that as soon as Lowe's best-laid plans fall apart at the seams, the squad takes a huge leap in direction. Beginning to feel quite sorry for JP. After all, he's trying to build a team and a style of play. I still don't see how anything related to the style of play will change? If they come in and play to JP's tactics and intended style, then great. They aren't going to be forced to play, and as JP has shown with Dyer and BWP, if they don't work hard or fit into how he wants the team to play, then they won't play.
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 There you go again! You just can't help it can you? We've just given Rasiak to Watford for the season. It's not like I am considering something totally unheard of in the anals of SFC recent history...
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Author Posted 18 August, 2008 I still don't see how anything related to the style of play will change? If they come in and play to JP's tactics and intended style, then great. They aren't going to be forced to play, and as JP has shown with Dyer and BWP, if they don't work hard or fit into how he wants the team to play, then they won't play. I am not convinced by this argument of getting players to play to a system. I reckon teams should play to the strengths of the members.
up and away Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? This has been JP's position from the begining. He only wanted to rely upon players he knew had a good chance of actually being here at the start of the season and beyond the window. Makes a lot of sense to build the team around your known resources, rather to work hard on them with the system and fitness to find they are moving on, then trying to shoe someone else in. But this logic forgoes the standard whinge, so I can see why you would never take to it.
broncoboy Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Rupert Lowes Total Football Revolution Brilliant
Giordano Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I think that good football management at SMS requires part financial management, part soccer coaching and part cold blooded pragmatism. We all know the ££ situation is bad. We all know we lost our first two league games. We all know the big earners have to go. BUT........being pragmatic i see no reason why the prospect of Euell and Skacel possibly returning to first team by playing a reserves match should contradict that early avowed intention to play the youth. Sometimes you need to take a step sideways, or backwards, in order to get to your goal. Maybe Skacel at LB would have helped on saturday, maybe Euell in MF would also.It does not mean the other young uns on the pitch/squad are not developing and presumably we are paying most of the salaries to those two even if they dont play, its just win and appearance bonusesw they are missing out on.... Its when its 11 old geezers and a kid on the bench that id get worried.... Its a subtlety which these pure action-reaction threads from posters totally miss. Jan HAS to use every trick he knows..........but the gist of it is that we need do it with the kids.....
Alanh Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Wasnt aware I was criticizing. In fact, I am sure I commented that I am somewhat pleased. Therefore, I am consistent with last wek. Hell, dont let something as simple as reading the post get in the way though. I do find it ironic that as soon as Lowe's best-laid plans fall apart at the seams, the squad takes a huge leap in direction. Beginning to feel quite sorry for JP. After all, he's trying to build a team and a style of play. I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Agreed, you said you were pleased, but it's difficult to read the second line of your quote in italics as anything other than criticism (at least implied) of Lowe certainly and arguably JP. As said above, both players can play to the system and their own strengths - Skacel could replace any of Surman, Holmes or Lallana from Saturday's team and Euell could replace any of Lallana, Gillett, Schneiderlin or John, or even arguably McG or Holmes. The team can still play the same way with or without these players. I'm sure JP would have preferred to have every player who is going to be in the squad on their game from day one of pre-season, but that simply doesn't happen at any club for a variety of reason. We'll find out how good a manager he is when he has to work to overcome issues thrown up along the way i.e. injuries, suspensions, unexpected departures, etc.
Danny Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Right. Two players who might or might not be leaving, playing in the reserves signifies the entire collapse of the new system? And you wonder why no-one takes you seriously? Every single post of yours is laced with over-reactionary hyperbole.
Glasgow_Saint Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 two squad players play in reserves + Alpine in over analyzing shocker!
Bon Call Night Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong. But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season... Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ? You happy.... you have never been happy! You just criticise from a distance, in fact to a point why I do not understand why you bother supporting Saints. Why does this mean the end of the plan? We have THREE or FOUR players over the age of 23 in the team at the moment, are you saying that Skacel and Euell are not capable of playing the system? We have been lucky to see one or two under the age of 23 in the past, yet now players are getting a chance. Players like Lallana, Thomson, James, Gillet and McGoldrick who have come through our youth system, plus the likes of Surman, Holmes and Schneiderlin who we have provided an opportunity to. We have played last years Cup Finalists and probably the hottest favourites for promotion in the league yet you continue to snipe. Until you bring some value or analysis to the table you might as well support someone else. You may be entitled to your opinion and it may just be your style of posting but people as negative as you continue to criticise any progress that is made. I expect we may lose next week too, but it represents our first chance of real points to me.... struggling team, manager under pressure, and a team in denial. We tried your Stern John approach and he missed a couple of sitters, what constructive ideas do you have for improvement?
Bon Call Night Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I think that good football management at SMS requires part financial management, part soccer coaching and part cold blooded pragmatism. We all know the ££ situation is bad. We all know we lost our first two league games. We all know the big earners have to go. BUT........being pragmatic i see no reason why the prospect of Euell and Skacel possibly returning to first team by playing a reserves match should contradict that early avowed intention to play the youth. Sometimes you need to take a step sideways, or backwards, in order to get to your goal. Maybe Skacel at LB would have helped on saturday, maybe Euell in MF would also.It does not mean the other young uns on the pitch/squad are not developing and presumably we are paying most of the salaries to those two even if they dont play, its just win and appearance bonusesw they are missing out on.... Its when its 11 old geezers and a kid on the bench that id get worried.... Its a subtlety which these pure action-reaction threads from posters totally miss. Jan HAS to use every trick he knows..........but the gist of it is that we need do it with the kids..... For me the start of the second half was all about naivity, a good team like Brum and probably a few crap ones going in 1 down will fly at you for the firt 10-15 minutes of the second half. If someone like Euell was playing where Lalana played (not necessarily dropping Lallana, move him wide right and play McGoldrick up front where he has scored goals!!!) then he may have had the nouse to sit in for the first few minutes and shut up shop. JP is still learning too, he was up against a seasoned CL manager with infinitely more resources at his disposal - but right now we need to get the balance right so maybe Euell coming into midfield may address that.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Alpine spends way too much time on here for someone who never watches the team play. Unfortunately he posts excessively on every thread thereby spoling the majority of threads, perhaps a posting cap would be a good idea?
S4INT Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Personally I think Euell could be very useful in midfield providing some experience. AND HE CAN PLAY UP FRONT AND SCORE GOALS From what I heard he had a great pre-season and I know he came good at the end of last so give the fellow a chance. Skacel is also a decent player, now that we have them we may as well use them as best we can, as cover if nothing else...
NickG Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461 The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury... Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast... sorry don't want to start more bickering but don't understand why that link means total football is dying etc....?
Professor Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 sorry don't want to start more bickering but don't understand why that link means total football is dying etc....? Nick, dont ask! You're not dealing with a balanced view. There's no point responding to something quite as ridiculous as the post that began this thread and personally, I haven't wasted any time reading all the other AS posts. This individual is in a fantasy world.
Johnny Shearer Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 You happy.... you have never been happy! You just criticise from a distance, in fact to a point why I do not understand why you bother supporting Saints. Why does this mean the end of the plan? We have THREE or FOUR players over the age of 23 in the team at the moment, are you saying that Skacel and Euell are not capable of playing the system? We have been lucky to see one or two under the age of 23 in the past, yet now players are getting a chance. Players like Lallana, Thomson, James, Gillet and McGoldrick who have come through our youth system, plus the likes of Surman, Holmes and Schneiderlin who we have provided an opportunity to. We have played last years Cup Finalists and probably the hottest favourites for promotion in the league yet you continue to snipe. Until you bring some value or analysis to the table you might as well support someone else. You may be entitled to your opinion and it may just be your style of posting but people as negative as you continue to criticise any progress that is made. I expect we may lose next week too, but it represents our first chance of real points to me.... struggling team, manager under pressure, and a team in denial. We tried your Stern John approach and he missed a couple of sitters, what constructive ideas do you have for improvement? Funny that. As thats what Alpine said to me in another thread, only I mentioned that we Saints fans are a bunch of moaners when we should get behind the TEAM ala fans of Leeds, Weds, Forest etc! :cool:
boxosponge Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 Alpine spends way too much time on here for someone who never watches the team play. Unfortunately he posts excessively on every thread thereby spoling the majority of threads, perhaps a posting cap would be a good idea? I finally resorted to the Ignore function and it has made me even happier than I felt in watching a Saints TEAM play exciting football on Saturday for the first time in a considerable while. Don't feed the troll
offix Posted 18 August, 2008 Posted 18 August, 2008 I finally resorted to the Ignore function and it has made me even happier than I felt in watching a Saints TEAM play exciting football on Saturday for the first time in a considerable while. Don't feed the troll Shame you can't put the RESULTS of our exciting football on ignore, isn't it?
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now