Genuine question for the Lowe Luvvies

[benjii]

I wish people would stop berating the dimmer members of this site for posting ill-thought and ignorant views, prejudiced by an unshakeable mindset.

 

This is a forum for football fans. That considered, I think we have fewer than the proportion of mongs to be expected.

[OldNick]

I would agree entirely, as genuine as the original question from SOG asking the marchers their opinions on hypothetical event.

 

We would do well to remember that there is probably more that unites us than divides us, but for me the problem is that as long as Lowe is here we will always be btching and fighting. He is not the galvanising and unifying figure that we so dearly need at this perilous time.

Ridding us of Lowe Might give us unity, relegatin whoever is in charge will bring the recriminations again.If we had gone down last season, i could not say i would not have blamed LC and NP etc for that happening, while others would have sid it was down to Lowe getting us relegated or GB.That is the sad point of it, whatever happened fans are at 2 poles and whilst it can be papered over until we get the WHOLE regime gone it will never happen.Being English Imstill being blamed for the potato famine that happened hundreds of years ago FFS and so the wounds we have now may be there for generations. Depressing.

[benjii]

Ridding us of Lowe Might give us unity, relegatin whoever is in charge will bring the recriminations again.If we had gone down last season, i could not say i would not have blamed LC and NP etc for that happening, while others would have sid it was down to Lowe getting us relegated or GB.That is the sad point of it, whatever happened fans are at 2 poles and whilst it can be papered over until we get the WHOLE regime gone it will never happen.Being English Imstill being blamed for the potato famine that happened hundreds of years ago FFS and so the wounds we have now may be there for generations. Depressing.

 

TBF one pole has a much stronger magnetic attraction than the other.

 

I don't think fan division is really an issue. The march on Saturday and the following support showed that in fact Lowe can be a unifying influence (albeit that the unification is mobilisation against him).

 

Regardless, the actions, dicontent,... whatever... of the fans pale into insignificance in the face of the continued onslaught of awful decisions that has characterised Lowe's last few years of association with the club.

[Frank's cousin]

I would agree entirely, as genuine as the original question from SOG asking the marchers their opinions on hypothetical event.

 

We would do well to remember that there is probably more that unites us than divides us, but for me the problem is that as long as Lowe is here we will always be btching and fighting. He is not the galvanising and unifying figure that we so dearly need at this perilous time.

 

Ok to be contoversial for a moment : Can someone explain WHY we need to be unified as fans anyway? surely the way to unify fans is success on the pitch WHOEVER is in the boardroom, because thats the acid test. If we have sucess on the pitch and are doing well, yet still we get gripes, moans and worse declaring the devils spawn needs to be removed from the club, it would demonstrate that for some its less about the game, the match and the support for the team, than the ingrained need to be 'loud and vocal' - Whether it is actually true or not, before you start on one of those 'how dare you be so insulting posts' -;-) you must be able to acknowledge that if reading some of the stuff on here as a neutral, it would certainly give that impression?

 

Also where does it say in the 'rules of being a fan' that we cant all put aside the 'issues' we have with the board for the greater good of supporting the manager and team to avoid relegation? ONe could argue that that was teh most important thing right now, nothing else really matters, whether you believe Wotte and the kids can do it or not, is irrelevent in this 'perilous time'.

[St. Jason]

He had his chance. Didn't do any better than Lowe.

Doesn't really matter who's in charge out of the 2 parties, we'd still be in a the same mess.

In my opinion, if Crouch was still in charge and had offered Pearson a contract, we'd be in administration by now.

 

Based on what??

 

Crouch loaned out rasiak and rudi last year and said (backed up by Lowe) that he'd already agreed to close the corners so you can clearly see he was prepared to make unpopular decisions. I also believe we'd be higher up the table under Pearson which, imo would put an extra 5k on the gate averaging our attendance @ 21k, meaning an extra £4m coming in per season. Surely that would keep the wolf from the door?? He had an agreement with the bank and note holder for his plan so would of been under exactly the same cost cutting instruction as Low from the bank. The only difference is I believe Peasron would od made a better fist of things, I don't think he'd of signed 15 players that have made very little impact on the side. With a bit of common sense and now how we could be comfortably mid-table, if we'd only made 5 of those signings we could have kept Saga, John or Rasiak, where would be now with those goals?

[Snowballs2]

Is it more important that we as supporters unite or that we forget about Lowe and Wilde and just get behind the club?.

Do we accept that there is nothing we can do to change the deadly duo or fight to get rid of those we hold to be mainly resonsible for our current plight?

If we walk away until the deadly duo have gone will the club survive ?

How important is it to the average fan that we become a well run club and live within the financial constraints?

 

 

For me unity and financial stability is paramount , for me we will not get it under the deadly duo, so where and what do we do?

It seems that the only way to get the attention of the deadly duo is with holding financial support, on a temporary basis.

I don't think Administration will come until the close season, then after the new season tickets have been renewed, so I would advocate supporters delaying the purchase until about a week before the season starts. It would not take many close season weeks for the bank and the deadly duo to realise the supporters mean business and Lowe would step down.

[Snowballs2]

Ok to be contoversial for a moment : Can someone explain WHY we need to be unified as fans anyway? surely the way to unify fans is success on the pitch WHOEVER is in the boardroom, because thats the acid test. If we have sucess on the pitch and are doing well, yet still we get gripes, moans and worse declaring the devils spawn needs to be removed from the club, it would demonstrate that for some its less about the game, the match and the support for the team, than the ingrained need to be 'loud and vocal' - Whether it is actually true or not, before you start on one of those 'how dare you be so insulting posts' -;-) you must be able to acknowledge that if reading some of the stuff on here as a neutral, it would certainly give that impression?

 

Also where does it say in the 'rules of being a fan' that we cant all put aside the 'issues' we have with the board for the greater good of supporting the manager and team to avoid relegation? ONe could argue that that was teh most important thing right now, nothing else really matters, whether you believe Wotte and the kids can do it or not, is irrelevent in this 'perilous time'.

 

 

As Lowe has said ...football is a results driven industry....therefore the financial well being is reflected in what the customers think of the leadership.

Lowe and wilde have failed big time, more customers equals better finances, they can only come when Lowe and Wilde have departed

[St. Jason]

A very good point. If you consider Crouch to be no better or indeed worse it is assumed you think Lowe is great. Its the same thing. I think Lowe is marginally better than anything currently at St Mary's but it doesn't mean I am happy. I also believe a march making it official that I am not happy is about as useful as a jelly toaster.

 

Can you toast jelly???????????????

 

Your probably right mate, but what else can we do to make our point. look at the oil refinery lads now, the french workers etc they are frustrated at the running of thier country/company and feel the same. If nothing else the marches, pickets from all party's have brought the situation we all find ourselves in to the forefront of peoples (maybe even Mr. Barclays) minds!

 

Note: i'm only comparing the methods of protest, I'm not for 1 minute saying our plights are the same!

[Frank's cousin]

Is it more important that we as supporters unite or that we forget about Lowe and Wilde and just get behind the club?.

Do we accept that there is nothing we can do to change the deadly duo or fight to get rid of those we hold to be mainly resonsible for our current plight?

If we walk away until the deadly duo have gone will the club survive ?

How important is it to the average fan that we become a well run club and live within the financial constraints?

 

 

For me unity and financial stability is paramount , for me we will not get it under the deadly duo, so where and what do we do?

It seems that the only way to get the attention of the deadly duo is with holding financial support, on a temporary basis.

I don't think Administration will come until the close season, then after the new season tickets have been renewed, so I would advocate supporters delaying the purchase until about a week before the season starts. It would not take many close season weeks for the bank and the deadly duo to realise the supporters mean business and Lowe would step down.

 

I can appreciate and respect what you say here SB2, but have to admit my take is slightly different... I do think that first and foremost should come supporting the manager and team, especially when we are in the mire, how we got there and who is to blame is secondary really... If the majority want a different cahirman and board, I am resigned to the 'so be it' - despite what soem may think I dont hold any affection for any of the incumbants...however, I do think we need to be careful about how we go about things. To see some of the comments aimed at those we believe responsible, to see the hatred and jumping on bandwagons without personally really questioning the pros and cons is worrying. Sure it human nature, the tribal culture etc, but is it actually more important than supporting the side?

[um pahars]

Ok to be contoversial for a moment : Can someone explain WHY we need to be unified as fans anyway? surely the way to unify fans is success on the pitch WHOEVER is in the boardroom, because thats the acid test. If we have sucess on the pitch and are doing well, yet still we get gripes, moans and worse declaring the devils spawn needs to be removed from the club, it would demonstrate that for some its less about the game, the match and the support for the team, than the ingrained need to be 'loud and vocal' - Whether it is actually true or not, before you start on one of those 'how dare you be so insulting posts' -;-) you must be able to acknowledge that if reading some of the stuff on here as a neutral, it would certainly give that impression?

 

Also where does it say in the 'rules of being a fan' that we cant all put aside the 'issues' we have with the board for the greater good of supporting the manager and team to avoid relegation? ONe could argue that that was teh most important thing right now, nothing else really matters, whether you believe Wotte and the kids can do it or not, is irrelevent in this 'perilous time'.

 

Well considering so many on here (and even yourself in your last paragraph) are calling for people to come together to get behind the manager, then I think you have answered your own question as to why we need unity.

 

Success on the pitch will indeed go along way in calming down the unrest,but IMHO there are two problems that would still exist.

 

Firstly Lowe's decisions and strategy have delivered abject failure and his decision making has once again been found wanting, so at the moment success seems a long way off.

 

Secondly, I think that even despite a modicum of success, Lowe has too much history and has been at the centre of too many mistakes and errors of judgement for him ever to be able to win back the support.

 

If a neutral was on the outside looking in, then I reckon they would be gobsmacked that the man who oversaw our relegation & initial demise was initially rightly dismissed, only to come back two years later to install a joke of a manager, oversaw falling crowds and has the team languishing in the relegation zone.

 

Given all that I think they would be fairly sympathetic to the plight and reaction of the fanbase. Even if this was happening at Portsmuff, I would have a degree of sympathy for their supporters.

[St. Jason]

TBF one pole has a much stronger magnetic attraction than the other.

 

I don't think fan division is really an issue. The march on Saturday and the following support showed that in fact Lowe can be a unifying influence (albeit that the unification is mobilisation against him).

 

Regardless, the actions, dicontent,... whatever... of the fans pale into insignificance in the face of the continued onslaught of awful decisions that has characterised Lowe's last few years of association with the club.

 

To be honest mate, the fan division looked quite a big issue against Doncaster!

[Frank's cousin]

As Lowe has said ...football is a results driven industry....therefore the financial well being is reflected in what the customers think of the leadership.

Lowe and wilde have failed big time, more customers equals better finances, they can only come when Lowe and Wilde have departed

 

Very true, and if made in that way, its a no brainer... Lowe and Wilde must go. I do suspect however, that many who if asked whay they want Lowe and Wilde out, will struggle to define the pros and cons that they analysed before reaching that decision. They will refuse to acknowledge that there were ever any benefits, despite the regular sellouts and successes we had before relegation.

 

Seriously, all the last 5 years has proven is that in a sport that is so beholden to the golden goose that is SKY and the disproportionate way in why SKY fawns over the greed that is the prem, multiplied by the way its influenced and reduced loyalty of both players and managers, and further multiplied by all the usual and multiple variables that influence success in football/sport, means that its a VERY fine line between successs and failure to amintain top division status and the mess created by the huge financial diparity is hideous.

 

Various attempts to overcome this have been made by various individuals - so far to no avail. For fans, I believe many have yet to come to terms with it all and need the hate figure to blame. Lowe fecked up many times, a bit like a cat with nine lives (or nine managers ;-)) who finally came to the end of his luck, but considering this is ONLY SPORT the vitriol and abuse aimed at not only Lowe, but those who decided it might not just be entirely down to one man, seems disproportionate to say the least... thats been my main gripe.

[Frank's cousin]

Secondly, I think that even despite a modicum of success, Lowe has too much history and has been at the centre of too many mistakes and errors of judgement for him ever to be able to win back the support.

 

 

Thats fair enough - and indeed is a rational for change - no argumnets from me, but I do have a problem with those who a) refuse to acknowledge that there were many factors that contributed to relegation, not just Lowe, b) refuse to acknowledge that he did some good things, and c) refuse to even analyse if there is any merit in a decision he makes before simply crying its sh!te.

 

Some mistake this in their prejudice as some sort of luvvie rubbish, but its more important to analyse properly and unemotionally, what REALLY went wrong, what worked, if you are to be able to avoid the same mistakes again or make a call on replacements.

 

We have seen too much willingness to simply support the 'hate' tag and jump onto the 'saviours' bandwagons without bothering to actually think for themselves and ask the right questions before drawing conclusions. It may be a results driven business, ultimately, but you also need to understand ALL that influences those results before nailing colours to masts.

[OldNick]

Well considering so many on here (and even yourself in your last paragraph) are calling for people to come together to get behind the manager, then I think you have answered your own question as to why we need unity.

 

Success on the pitch will indeed go along way in calming down the unrest,but IMHO there are two problems that would still exist.

 

Firstly Lowe's decisions and strategy have delivered abject failure and his decision making has once again been found wanting, so at the moment success seems a long way off.

 

Secondly, I think that even despite a modicum of success, Lowe has too much history and has been at the centre of too many mistakes and errors of judgement for him ever to be able to win back the support.

 

If a neutral was on the outside looking in, then I reckon they would be gobsmacked that the man who oversaw our relegation & initial demise was initially rightly dismissed, only to come back two years later to install a joke of a manager, oversaw falling crowds and has the team languishing in the relegation zone.

 

Given all that I think they would be fairly sympathetic to the plight and reaction of the fanbase. Even if this was happening at Portsmuff, I would have a degree of sympathy for their supporters.

Ump and you think LC was a success!!! he did just what you complain about RLdid.Kept a failing pair of manager who were brought from the staff.As I mentioned in another post would we still be having a love in with him and NP had the worst happened? i think we would have blamed him for D&G and also appointing a rookie manager who had been relegated managing Carlisle.Fortunately we got out of jail at the last possible moment.

Saying all that RL made another poor judgement in appointing Jan but he is gone and now we have Wotte.iam now a little more upbeat about him after saturday and also hearing what i did yesterday about the way he is handling things. 3 games time I may regret those words but I bleieve we now have to get on with it as another change will not solve unless it arrives with a large amount of cash to improve the squad with quality loan signings.

[Frank's cousin]

Ump and you think LC was a success!!! he did just what you complain about RLdid.Kept a failing pair of manager who were brought from the staff.As I mentioned in another post would we still be having a love in with him and NP had the worst happened? i think we would have blamed him for D&G and also appointing a rookie manager who had been relegated managing Carlisle.Fortunately we got out of jail at the last possible moment.

Saying all that RL made another poor judgement in appointing Jan but he is gone and now we have Wotte.iam now a little more upbeat about him after saturday and also hearing what i did yesterday about the way he is handling things. 3 games time I may regret those words but I bleieve we now have to get on with it as another change will not solve unless it arrives with a large amount of cash to improve the squad with quality loan signings.

 

 

Think thats the difference between me and so many others (well one anyway ;-)) whereas some see the promotion of the unknownm especially from with in as a failure, I see it for what it was - an option we could afford and to be fair, its asumed that fans would see the wisdom of having someone at the helm who had an association with the club... whether it be wigley, Gray or Dodd, I can se the logic in it, even if the experience these guys had was lacking and thus risky.... yet you ahve David Armstrong on the Radio (day after Wotte appointed) SAYING WE SHOULD BE TRYING SOMEONELIKE HIM OR BENALI!!! ... surely the guy is joking, or is it that we believe in it when it comes from someone who has publically kicked the regime we welcome it it , yet when done by the regime itself its a hideous mistake by someone who does not understand teh game? double standards methinks.

 

It was also interesting watching the about turns of those who thought crouch was nuts getting Pearson in - me included only for when it just about worked out for it to be seen as victory for Crouch - he just got lucky with the choice, that was all. And If Crouch could rely on such luck then he should be here now, because ultimately we forget its influence far too often.

[um pahars]

Ump and you think LC was a success!!! he did just what you complain about RLdid.

 

Just as I have never claimed Pearson was a rip roaring success and a Saints legend, I think you'll find my views on Crouch are very similar.

 

BUT, just as I would prefer to have Pearson over Wotte or Poortvliet (of course I would want Mourinho, but it's not an option) then I think the same can be said with regards Crouch over Lowe (in that I would prefer another alternative) particularly in this short term period. My preferred postion has always been an outside CEO and Chairman, independent and tasked, something that is eminently achievable and as realistic as changing the manager.

 

Lowe's decision making has once again been shown up to be absolutley appalling, so forgive me if I have no faith in what we have today. And whilst you might want to claim Dodd and Gorman is exactly the same as Poortvliet, then I'm afraid I don't buy it (the same as Gray maybe, in being it was his first big mistake), but go back and think and look at the contexts and when and how Lowe made the decision and remember not least that to install Poortvliet he had to remove Pearson.

 

If the very best reasons we can come up with to keep Lowe are either (a) there is no other alternative, or (b) he's not Crouch, then I have to say that's a very damning indictment on the vision, ambition and desire of those currently in charge of our Club.

[OldNick]

Just as I have never claimed Pearson was a rip roaring success and a Saints legend, I think you'll find my views on Crouch are very similar.

 

BUT, just as I would prefer to have Pearson over Wotte or Poortvliet (of course I would want Mourinho, but it's not an option) then I think the same can be said with regards Crouch over Lowe (in that I would prefer another alternative) particularly in this short term period. My preferred postion has always been an outside CEO and Chairman, independent and tasked, something that is eminently achievable and as realistic as changing the manager.

 

Lowe's decision making has once again been shown up to be absolutley appalling, so forgive me if I have no faith in what we have today. And whilst you might want to claim Dodd and Gorman is exactly the same as Poortvliet, then I'm afraid I don't buy it (the same as Gray maybe, in being it was his first big mistake), but go back and think and look at the contexts and when and how Lowe made the decision and remember not least that to install Poortvliet he had to remove Pearson.

 

If the very best reasons we can come up with to keep Lowe are either (a) there is no other alternative, or (b) he's not Crouch, then I have to say that's a very damning indictment on the vision, ambition and desire of those currently in charge of our Club.

You sum up how poor our options really are.We have such poor options, it really is pathetic and it galls me clubs of little apparent potential get backers and we dont.LC is a saints fan that it seems is the best part of his CV.If he gains power then I will give him time to prove himself, that is only fair.

[Snowballs2]

Inmost cases the whole Lowe dislike campaign revolves around the fact that he had already Royally ****ed up and failed first time round, and, he returned in the eyes of most supporters when he should have stayed away.

Nothing has changed since his first failures...he picked yet another crap manager in Portaloo

[St. Jason]

Ump and you think LC was a success!!! he did just what you complain about RLdid.Kept a failing pair of manager who were brought from the staff.As I mentioned in another post would we still be having a love in with him and NP had the worst happened? i think we would have blamed him for D&G and also appointing a rookie manager who had been relegated managing Carlisle.Fortunately we got out of jail at the last possible moment.

Saying all that RL made another poor judgement in appointing Jan but he is gone and now we have Wotte.iam now a little more upbeat about him after saturday and also hearing what i did yesterday about the way he is handling things. 3 games time I may regret those words but I bleieve we now have to get on with it as another change will not solve unless it arrives with a large amount of cash to improve the squad with quality loan signings.

 

Nick in fairness to Crouch he realsied he made a mistake in appointing Dodd & Gorman and acted by installing Pearson. For all the if's, but's and maybe's Pearson did keep us up!

 

Crouch rectified his mistake after 9 games it took Lowe 28 games, if Crouch had waited that long we'd already be playing in Div 1.

[OldNick]

Nick in fairness to Crouch he realsied he made a mistake in appointing Dodd & Gorman and acted by installing Pearson. For all the if's, but's and maybe's Pearson did keep us up!

 

Crouch rectified his mistake after 9 games it took Lowe 28 games, if Crouch had waited that long we'd already be playing in Div 1.

When was the appointment though? about the same time or perhaps a little later.Just 1 game too many and it could have been terminal.Jan going was to my mind 5 games too late and G&D tenure 9 too many. I want the fans to move on and stop the tit for tats, of course iam more than able to join in but today im being unuisually magnaminous as i feel upbeat about our chances.

[St. Jason]

Think thats the difference between me and so many others (well one anyway ;-)) whereas some see the promotion of the unknownm especially from with in as a failure, I see it for what it was - an option we could afford and to be fair, its asumed that fans would see the wisdom of having someone at the helm who had an association with the club... whether it be wigley, Gray or Dodd, I can se the logic in it, even if the experience these guys had was lacking and thus risky.... yet you ahve David Armstrong on the Radio (day after Wotte appointed) SAYING WE SHOULD BE TRYING SOMEONELIKE HIM OR BENALI!!! ... surely the guy is joking, or is it that we believe in it when it comes from someone who has publically kicked the regime we welcome it it , yet when done by the regime itself its a hideous mistake by someone who does not understand teh game? double standards methinks.

 

It was also interesting watching the about turns of those who thought crouch was nuts getting Pearson in - me included only for when it just about worked out for it to be seen as victory for Crouch - he just got lucky with the choice, that was all. And If Crouch could rely on such luck then he should be here now, because ultimately we forget its influence far too often.

 

So crouch "just got lucky" with Pearson's appointment yet we're supposed to give Lowe credit for Strachan, come on mate you can't have it both ways!

 

I agree Lowe should be given credit for overseeing our move to St. Mary's also the cup run but equally if he is to be credited for the success he should be criticised for the failures, that is where I am now, criticising his failures, Stoneham, 11 managers, 3 in one season, quantity not quality in the playing staff, wasting money we didn't have on his experiment with SCW, his new experiment with the "revolutionary coaching set up" sitting 2nd from bottom now!

[St. Jason]

When was the appointment though? about the same time or perhaps a little later.Just 1 game too many and it could have been terminal.Jan going was to my mind 5 games too late and G&D tenure 9 too many. I want the fans to move on and stop the tit for tats, of course iam more than able to join in but today im being unuisually magnaminous as i feel upbeat about our chances.

 

Back to if's and but's though mate, Crouch didn't wait one more game and history will show it wasn't to late.

 

I would question why Jan should afforded 23 games yet Dodd & Gorman not even 1??

[Frank's cousin]

So crouch "just got lucky" with Pearson's appointment yet we're supposed to give Lowe credit for Strachan, come on mate you can't have it both ways!

 

NO Lowe got lucky with Strachan, as most fans though Oh Feck... thats the whole point. BUt in this case I was making the argument that Crouch tried an unknown after having given the job temporarily to untrieds in Dodd and Gorman - same as Lowe tried unknowns in Gray, wigley JP and now Wotte, Strachan was not unknown but a failure at the time... they all have one thing in common - we could afford them... CRouch got kluck second time around, Lowe got lucky with Strachan... thats the point I was making and its not me who wants it both ways, but those hailing CRouch as a 'football man' when he has no more (in fact alot less) experience than Lowe - but maybe he is luckier?

[St. Jason]

NO Lowe got lucky with Strachan' date=' as most fans though Oh Feck... thats the whole point. BUt in this case I was making the argument that Crouch tried an unknown after having given the job temporarily to untrieds in Dodd and Gorman - same as Lowe tried unknowns in Gray, wigley JP and now Wotte, Strachan was not unknown but a failure at the time... they all have one thing in common - we could afford them... CRouch got kluck second time around, Lowe got lucky with Strachan... thats the point I was making and its not me who wants it both ways, but those hailing CRouch as a 'football man' when he has no more (in fact alot less) experience than Lowe - but maybe he is luckier?[/quote']

 

I would argue that Crouch has a lot more experience now than Lowe had before he came to Saints. Crouch has been involved with Lowe clubs, Lymington and New Milton I think I'm right in saying he was chairman and spent a good chunk of his own money, he's a life long fan who's a season ticket holder. When Lowe came here he'd never even been to a game, my point is he's only now experienced because of his time with us, who's to know here we'd be under Crouch after 11 years??

 

With regards to the luck, is not football all over, Crouch was poor for Villa great for us, Marsden, a revelation, fuller poor for us great for stoke, its all luck. The people who make these decisions are the ones that live and die by luck and as such should be given credit when it works and criticised when it fails!

[Frank's cousin]

The people who make these decisions are the ones that live and die by luck and as such should be given credit when it works and criticised when it fails!

 

Totally agree, happy to point out and acknowledge Lowe many mistakes and flaws, just as happy to be inspired by Crouch's successes.... but is everybody happy to accept the flip side too? Lowes successes and Crouch's flaws? That is all some of us have been arguning for when it boils down...

[um pahars]

Totally agree' date=' happy to point out and acknowledge Lowe many mistakes and flaws, just as happy to be inspired by Crouch's successes.... but is everybody happy to accept the flip side too? Lowes successes and Crouch's flaws? That is all some of us have been arguning for when it boils down...[/quote']

 

But the problem has been that towards the end of Lowe's last tenure and arguably for all of this one it has been one mistake after another.

 

Every good leader has a sell by date and Lowe's expired in about 2004/5.

 

Just like I don't blame Poortvliet for taking on a job he was not cut out for, in a way I can't blame Lowe for having the balls to come back and give it a go.

 

But just like the Poortvliet situation, alot of the blame should rest with those who put him in this position and installed a character whose decision making is shot to pieces and whose mere presence divides out Club (or arguably even unites it in opposition).

 

Hi strategy of employing Poortvliet and installing a "revolutionary coaching set up" is in absolute tatters, and quite frankly it's failure should have made his postion untenable. He took the massive gamble of sacking an incumbent who had managed to install a degree of unity and togetherness in the Club and replace it with someone who left us in the relegation zone and staring relegation in the face.

 

I very much doubt that any other club would have accepted Lowe back int he first place, and I find it even more staggering that after his latest strategy has been blown out of the water there are some at the club who still support him.

 

In any other business or club he would have been run out of town by supporters and shareholders alike.

 

I would like to hear from the major shareholders such as Wilde, Askham, Withers and Richards what their views on the failed strategy are and why they have decided not to seek out an alternative CEO and Chairman???

[Frank's cousin]

But the problem has been that towards the end of Lowe's last tenure and arguably for all of this one it has been one mistake after another.

 

Every good leader has a sell by date and Lowe's expired in about 2004/5.

 

Just like I don't blame Poortvliet for taking on a job he was not cut out for, in a way I can't blame Lowe for having the balls to come back and give it a go.

 

But just like the Poortvliet situation, alot of the blame should rest with those who put him in this position and installed a character whose decision making is shot to pieces and whose mere presence divides out Club (or arguably even unites it in opposition).

 

Hi strategy of employing Poortvliet and installing a "revolutionary coaching set up" is in absolute tatters, and quite frankly it's failure should have made his postion untenable. He took the massive gamble of sacking an incumbent who had managed to install a degree of unity and togetherness in the Club and replace it with someone who left us in the relegation zone and staring relegation in the face.

 

I very much doubt that any other club would have accepted Lowe back int he first place, and I find it even more staggering that after his latest strategy has been blown out of the water there are some at the club who still support him.

 

In any other business or club he would have been run out of town by supporters and shareholders alike.

 

I would like to hear from the major shareholders such as Wilde, Askham, Withers and Richards what their views on the failed strategy are and why they have decided not to seek out an alternative CEO and Chairman???

 

Ultimately, rightly or wrongly its simple - the other shareholders (or 45% ) support Lowe because they 'believe' he is currently the best option of the three - for managing the financials and avoiding admin - irrespective of what his decisons mean for the football at the club... thats why they support him.

[OldNick]

Back to if's and but's though mate, Crouch didn't wait one more game and history will show it wasn't to late.

 

I would question why Jan should afforded 23 games yet Dodd & Gorman not even 1??

I was not for him but if the plan was to have any chance you had to give it some time to see if it bore fruit.G&D was an experiment/choice that could not be tested any longer as we were hurtling down.Forget not that LC had them down for the season and were3 the right men to get us into the promotion play off places.

[a1ex2001]

I love this web site, it's totally ridiculous apparently we either have to choose to be lowe luvies or lowe haters? When did we stop having the option of being fans, personally I couldn't give a damn who runs the club as long as it works, which clearly it isn't at the minute. Thats not to say I 'hate' Lowe I actually think in his time he's done alot of good for the club but he's not anymore so the time has come for him to step aside. Finally as far as the appointment of Jan goes I was in the lets see camp which quickly became the lets get him out of here camp and to be honest I would have had the same opinion wether or not Lowe appointed him or the fans elected him.

 

Surely it's got to be time to drop all this lowe luvie and hater crap and just get on with supporting our club?

[NickG]

agree

[benjii]

To be honest mate, the fan division looked quite a big issue against Doncaster!

 

A couple of beered up mongs and a few spotty little gimps staging a faux-pitch invasion!

[Frank's cousin]

I love this web site, it's totally ridiculous apparently we either have to choose to be lowe luvies or lowe haters? When did we stop having the option of being fans, personally I couldn't give a damn who runs the club as long as it works, which clearly it isn't at the minute. Thats not to say I 'hate' Lowe I actually think in his time he's done alot of good for the club but he's not anymore so the time has come for him to step aside. Finally as far as the appointment of Jan goes I was in the lets see camp which quickly became the lets get him out of here camp and to be honest I would have had the same opinion wether or not Lowe appointed him or the fans elected him.

 

Surely it's got to be time to drop all this lowe luvie and hater crap and just get on with supporting our club?

 

Totally agree with that sentiment. The problem is that in most cases when you put it across like this is the response tends to vere to the 'If you are not totally against him - you must be with him' nonsense... also I find it difficult to reconcile the 'he should go just so there is greater unity.... thats ****** IMHO. We dont need to fight amongst ourselves over Lowe if we CHOOSE not to...the fact that division is highlighted plays to a certain camp.

 

Rather than focusing on what divides opinion, in this pewrilous time is it not better to fucus on whate we have in common? The simple desire to see our team win and avoid relegation.

[krissyboy31]

I was not for him but if the plan was to have any chance you had to give it some time to see if it bore fruit.G&D was an experiment/choice that could not be tested any longer as we were hurtling down.Forget not that LC had them down for the season and were3 the right men to get us into the promotion play off places.

 

I think the difference is that Crouch was quick to realise his mistake (the catalyst was the Bristol Rovers cup game. He may have kept them on if it weren't for that, who knows?). Lowe however, doesn't make mistakes (in his mind) and I suspect the only reason that JP was relieved of his duties (oh, I mean resigned), was because of pressure applied by Wilde (who holds the balance of power) Cowan (who was left to carry the can during the Donny game) and Crouch himself.

[Frank's cousin]

I think the difference is that Crouch was quick to realise his mistake (the catalyst was the Bristol Rovers cup game. He may have kept them on if it weren't for that, who knows?). Lowe however, doesn't make mistakes (in his mind) and I suspect the only reason that JP was relieved of his duties (oh, I mean resigned), was because of pressure applied by Wilde (who holds the balance of power) Cowan (who was left to carry the can during the Donny game) and Crouch himself.

 

I agree its the thing that most infuriates about Lowe - but there are a couple of things in mitigation, the desire to finally see continuity after so much cahnge means a reluctance to sack again... and that these things do take time. With Crouch, yes he made a quick decision, but then apointed an untried, no different from Lowe, but he got lucky, although it did go down to the wire. Having got lucky though, I would have liked to see what he could have done with the squad, and Lowe's broom should ahve stayed away from that. I am sure when he sees the league 1 table and then looks at the mess we are in he probably regrets it, but thats another of his failings, his inability to come out and say he was wrong - the amount of positive PR that would have given him he seems unaware of....

[um pahars]

We dont need to fight amongst ourselves over Lowe if we CHOOSE not to...the fact that division is highlighted plays to a certain camp.

 

Get in the real world.

 

I'm sure we would all love this to be a Utopian Club where everyone gets on together and we all live in peace and harmony.

 

However, a very considearable number of supporters hold the very valid view that having Lowe at the helm and in charge of decisions will be to the detriment of this Club.

 

Therefore, IMHO they also believe that in protesting against him and seeking his removal is a decent and honourable position to take.

 

And anyway, if you think fan unity is bullsht, then why are you preaching that we should all forget our differences and get behind the manager??

 

And as for your last point about division playing to a certain camp, then I do hope you are (and have been ) consistent with your criticism, as division, rancour and mistrust has been a tactic that both sides have used in the past.

[stthrobber]

All these discussions about who did what are pointless. The club could be on the verge of administration anytime over the next seven weeks, if results don't pick up soon. The major shareholders and fans need to unite for the good of the club. The next seven weeks will make or break our community club.

 

Why are you telling me this? I just replied to Stanley's question. Of course they are pointless but the question was asked.

[Frank's cousin]

And as for your last point about division playing to a certain camp, then I do hope you are (and have been ) consistent with your criticism, as division, rancour and mistrust has been a tactic that both sides have used in the past.

 

True and it does NO side any good, or shows them in good light.

 

As to your utopian rubbish UP, ..'get real' this is football FFS which in the grand scheme of things is hardly that important.

[St. Jason]

A couple of beered up mongs and a few spotty little gimps staging a faux-pitch invasion!

 

So its just bull**** then from the club again then?

 

Saints police bill set go increase by £60k because of the crowd trouble at the Doncaster game! I said at the time of the article it was crap but i'm regulary told on here thats there is no pr spin from the club!

[um pahars]

True and it does NO side any good, or shows them in good light.

 

As to your utopian rubbish UP, ..'get real' this is football FFS which in the grand scheme of things is hardly that important.

 

It's obvously important to some people. I'm sure it's not as important as your family, close friends and your health, but I have to say that this Club plays a considerable part in the lives of many and an important role in the community.

 

I can't imagine myself marching for many causes, in fact Saturday was the first time I have ever gone on one. I think you underestimate how important the Club is to many people.

[Snowballs2]

It must be a difficult time for all those people who want to sit on the rickety fence right now. Its wobbling at the moment and not very stable, I just hope that when the fence finally falls there is not a big pile of dung for the fence sitters to fall into.

We have become a very indecisive band of fans, with some so scared of jumping, its not high and you will not break a leg if you do. Come on down ..you know it makes sense

[Frank's cousin]

It must be a difficult time for all those people who want to sit on the rickety fence right now. Its wobbling at the moment and not very stable, I just hope that when the fence finally falls there is not a big pile of dung for the fence sitters to fall into.

We have become a very indecisive band of fans, with some so scared of jumping, its not high and you will not break a leg if you do. Come on down ..you know it makes sense

 

NIce analogy Snowballs, made me chuckle - I guess the fence is indeed rocky, unstable and the pointy bits are causing havok with the unmntionbles, but from where we are sitting there is steaming dungon on both sides of the fence! ;-)