um pahars Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 The majority who are unhappy with the situation but hold a more balanced view will agree the comment was not wise, shrug their shoulders and move on. And that is where I stand on the situation. I'm not outraged by the comment, just find it unnecessary and unwise and someone should have been at his side overseeing what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 His comments on The Championship show's he has no knowledge of SFC or sympathy with Saints fans. Wotte "Rupert was not here last year when they (not we?) were in a simliar position, those people (us fans, nice) are very easy with their judgement" Not impressed, not impressed at all! Yup ... easy to see who pulls his strings ... surprise, surprise The quicker he puts the "T" back in front of his name, the better ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 And that is where I stand on the situation. I'm not outraged by the comment, just find it unnecessary and unwise and someone should have been at his side overseeing what was going on. Yep. It's just another example of the administration being thoughtless when it comes to the fans. Nothing major in isolation but still unfortunate and sad nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Of course it didn't upset me, but I think it was a very ill advised or naive retort, at a time when he should be concentrating on winning over the fanbase and convincing us he is the right man for the job. It demonstrated a distinct lack of empathy with the wider fanbase.I thought it wouldnt have upset you as you could see it for as it was.Some slack should be given for the language but also the fans who were hypersensitive to it would not embrace Wotte anyway as he's RL's man.The only way for him to get them onside is by getting results. That will make this storm calm. lets hope my newfounded confidence is well founded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 2 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I thought it wouldnt have upset you as you could see it for as it was.Some slack should be given for the language but also the fans who were hypersensitive to it would not embrace Wotte anyway as he's RL's man.The only way for him to get them onside is by getting results. That will make this storm calm. lets hope my newfounded confidence is well founded. Nick that is all any of us really want, if Wotte is a success on the pitch then i for one will be happy. As I've said before one of the problems with Wotte he is seen, rightly or wrongly, as part of the new "coaching revolution". I for one find it hard to distinguish between Jan and Wotte simply because of all the pr spin coming from the club during thier much trumpeted arrival. All this "seamless training" and "the 4 coaches take collective responsibility for training" is fine but now it's failed we're all expected to believe that Wotte had no input in training, the last 9 months has all been Jans fault. Also find it a bit disingenuous to be told for the last 9 months that "our boys can only play this way, they haven't trained for 4-4-2" only for us to revert to 4-4-2 only 45 mins into Wotte's first game, but I don't want him to fail just because i think it will hasten Lowe's exit. I do feel Lowes position would become untenable should Wotte fail, but I do not put my dislike of Lowe above and before the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Nick that is all any of us really want, if Wotte is a success on the pitch then i for one will be happy. As I've said before one of the problems with Wotte he is seen, rightly or wrongly, as part of the new "coaching revolution". I for one find it hard to distinguish between Jan and Wotte simply because of all the pr spin coming from the club during thier much trumpeted arrival. All this "seamless training" and "the 4 coaches take collective responsibility for training" is fine but now it's failed we're all expected to believe that Wotte had no input in training, the last 9 months has all been Jans fault. Also find it a bit disingenuous to be told for the last 9 months that "our boys can only play this way, they haven't trained for 4-4-2" only for us to revert to 4-4-2 only 45 mins into Wotte's first game, but I don't want him to fail just because i think it will hasten Lowe's exit. I do feel Lowes position would become untenable should Wotte fail, but I do not put my dislike of Lowe above and before the club!jason your posts show that and also surprisingly they show you have a sense of humour as well!! I can only go by my own judgement and view on things.iam fortunate to get little snippets and they do bode well.I asked whether KD was likely to leave and got the impression that was not going to happen (unless a good offer came in) as KD is so proud of being made Club Captain he was said to be well made up being given that role.i dont wish to tempt fate but that is the impression I was given yesterday. The players do believe thye will turn it around and Wotte has changed things for the better. Now it is early and i was on here less than impressed about Wotte's appointment,but hearing the positives yesterday added to the battling that we have for so long lacked then it heartens me to feel supportive of the management.He has now got to come up with the goods, add to that the fans being really intelligent saturday where they forgot the RL thing during the game and supported the team we could perhaps grow from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Try reading all posts and threads and you will find it's ***** fighting from both sides not just pro-Lowe, or are you anti-Lowe to make the comment in the first place TBH saintwarwick I know that the anti Lowe people use childish names etc, but we have had some of the pro Lowe complaining about it and then doing exactly the same thing! I was trying to make the point to all parties, that if you are civil and treat other people with respect then your opinion may just be listened too more! Sadoldgit still doesnt get the fact that this situation is black and white, you either like Lowe to run the club or you don´t. The sitting on the fence is a cop out! Also saying their is no other choice isn´t the middle ground it is just a lack of willing to nail your flag to the mast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 thats whats killing this board,the repetitive drivel by some of the posters,we all know what they are going to post. Imho, this is the most fun this forum has been for months wether i agree or disagree with everyones comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 2 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 2 February, 2009 (edited) jason your posts show that and also surprisingly they show you have a sense of humour as well!! I can only go by my own judgement and view on things.iam fortunate to get little snippets and they do bode well.I asked whether KD was likely to leave and got the impression that was not going to happen (unless a good offer came in) as KD is so proud of being made Club Captain he was said to be well made up being given that role.i dont wish to tempt fate but that is the impression I was given yesterday. The players do believe thye will turn it around and Wotte has changed things for the better. Now it is early and i was on here less than impressed about Wotte's appointment,but hearing the positives yesterday added to the battling that we have for so long lacked then it heartens me to feel supportive of the management.He has now got to come up with the goods, add to that the fans being really intelligent saturday where they forgot the RL thing during the game and supported the team we could perhaps grow from this. Look Nick, I've told you once and I'll tell you again, there is no room on this forum for civil debate. I'm anti-Lowe and as such I'm a knuckle dragger with less than average intelligence with a mental age of 8, where's my window to lick, I'm confused! Edited 2 February, 2009 by St. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Look Nick, I've told you once and I'll tell you again, there is no room on this forum for civil debate. I'm anti-Lowe and as such I'm a knuckle dragger with less than average intelligence with a mental age of 8, where's my window lick, I'm confused! LOL - fair cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 2 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 2 February, 2009 LOL - fair cop. I think the bottom line is ultimately we all want the same thing, we all want success for our great club, the problem is we all have different opinions on how we get there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 It came across to me as if he was only interested what was happening on the pitch. Could have been a bit more diplomatic maybe? Dont know if this has been said, cant be arsed to read the whole thread.... but i'd much prefer someone to be a complete mong and slag off the fans and STAY UP than some eejit lick our arses and we GO DOWN. simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I think the bottom line is ultimately we all want the same thing, we all want success for our great club, the problem is we all have different opinions on how we get there! Too true, and that in itself is no bad thing as it helps keep us all on our toes - better research hopefully to try and support or side of the logical argument.. BUt I tell you this. I would denounce any previously/current held belief and support whatever the majority instructed me to, if that was teh price to pay for avoiding relegation if offered now. How many on the other side of the fence would say the same? Because fro me, all my waffling, 'firm stance' analytics and posturing mean didly squat when it comes to the simple game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 How many on the other side of the fence would say the same? I think the vast majority would, but in making such a grandoise claim and by insinuation suggesting the other side wouldn't, then I have to say I think it makes look as though you're grandstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 As far as Lowe goes, his position should have been untenable the minute JP was sacked (sorry, resigned). Unfortunately, while protests are all well and good, Lowe is as thick-skinned as a rhino. Only two things will remove him - 1. A buyout. 2. A mass boycott. Wotte was foolish for rubbing fans up the wrong way with his comments. But really, who gives a f*ck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Richard of Woolston Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I think the bottom line is ultimately we all want the same thing, we all want success for our great club, the problem is we all have different opinions on how we get there! Oooh, time for me to leave for the day - a post that makes perfect sense and one I agree with 100%. I'll shake your hand on that one Jason, for sure. As to 'how we get there', it should be noted that I am always right and have the sat nav whilst Um Pahars has an old map, is holding upside down and is continually wrong. And I will defend his right to continue being so to the last drop of beer in my glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 and is continually wrong. Apart from calling Poortvliet's CV and the man himself a work of fiction from day one (although my nephew called that right as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 As to 'how we get there', it should be noted that I am always right and have the sat nav whilst Um Pahars has an old map, is holding upside down and is continually wrong. And I will defend his right to continue being so to the last drop of beer in my glass. As the Irishman responded when asked for directions:- Ah! To be sure...if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't be starting from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I think the vast majority would, but in making such a grandoise claim and by insinuation suggesting the other side wouldn't, then I have to say I think it makes look as though you're grandstanding. Uhm... If it sounds like grandstanding, I humbly suggest its because there are 'many' that mioght not if it were that way round, otherwise it would merely be stating the obvious...;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Uhm... If it sounds like grandstanding' date=' I humbly suggest its because there are 'many' that mioght not if it were that way round, otherwise it would merely be stating the obvious...;-)[/quote'] Therefore I would have to say that your grandstanding is not helpful and somewhat patronising. The notion that only you are capable of such magnanimous behaviour and many would not be capable of matching your honourable actions is somewhat insulting. There have been a number of posts and threads where those in the "anti Lowe" camp have already stated that they would much rather have Poortvliet succeeding than seeing us get relegated or go into adminsitration. It's a rather pompous belief that whilst you would denounce any prior belief, you doubt that many others could match your integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 TBH saintwarwick I know that the anti Lowe people use childish names etc, but we have had some of the pro Lowe complaining about it and then doing exactly the same thing! I was trying to make the point to all parties, that if you are civil and treat other people with respect then your opinion may just be listened too more! Sadoldgit still doesnt get the fact that this situation is black and white, you either like Lowe to run the club or you don´t. The sitting on the fence is a cop out! Also saying their is no other choice isn´t the middle ground it is just a lack of willing to nail your flag to the mast. Hola, I agree that many people see this in balck and white. I don't. I also don't se myself as a fence sitter. Why do you HAVE to take sides? My side has always been SFC. There are times when I think decsions have been made that are good for SFC and times when I think they are not so good. That is the big plus about taking a broader view, you don't paint yourself into a corner. There are some people here who hate Lowe so much they actually think he is deliberatly trying to ruin the club. I am sorry but I think that is ridiculous. I do believe that he really thinks that he is doing the right thing for the future of the club - why fault him for that? He obviously made a mistake with JP and has changed things around. Whether Wotte is any betyter it remains to be seen, but if Lowe was out to destroy SFC wouldn't he have left JP in charge? Once you get yourself an agenda it is very difficult to see the situation in an objective light. If you had read an earlier mail you would have seen that I was surprised that Lowe came back and didn't think it was a good idea. Now he is back I also think that he is a better bet to run things for now (better than Wilde or Crouch that is). I would much rather the club had found a financier and someone else to run it. There, not black and white but hardly a fence sitter either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Look Nick, I've told you once and I'll tell you again, there is no room on this forum for civil debate. I'm anti-Lowe and as such I'm a knuckle dragger with less than average intelligence with a mental age of 8, where's my window to lick, I'm confused!St Jason for chairman....can I arrange a march now? Jason Out Your post is so right, we lose the object that WE all want saints to be great again..of course your way is wrong and my way is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Therefore I would have to say that your grandstanding is not helpful and somewhat patronising. The notion that only you are capable of such magnanimous behaviour and many would not be capable of matching your honourable actions is somewhat insulting. There have been a number of posts and threads where those in the "anti Lowe" camp have already stated that they would much rather have Poortvliet succeeding than seeing us get relegated or go into adminsitration. It's a rather pompous belief that whilst you would denounce any prior belief, you doubt that many others could match your integrity. Here we go again... UP the defender of the down trodden... 'insulting' 'pompous' ..bo!!0x - Can you not see the difference between what you believe is the 'real feeling' and the perception provided by many in the anti camp here? Why is such a question 'not helpful' .... because it irritates? because it might be closer to the truth than many would care to admit? This has nothing to do my 'my integrity'... I am sure there are many who are far better scoring on that account than me, but there are also many that appear to thrive in the 'disunity' as it serves a purpose. FFS when will someone have the balls to stand up and say what many are thinking but dare not utter for fear of the tribal backlash? I am going to say it and you can accuse me of being as insulting as you like, I really dont care because whilst you defend them, we never get the truth... now please read this carefully because I dont want it taken out of context: There are many fans on HERE who give the PERCEPTION that nothing is more important to them than ridding the boardroom of the evildoers and have felt like that for a long time. There are others that have jumped on this bandwagon without wanting to really debate the case. Sure there are many who do provide sensible debate and argue with logic and reason, but they too are often criticised and 'cyber bullied'. This is football, a game, nothing more nothing less and to see some of the rhetoric bandied about, the childish glee and schardenfreude witnessed when the mob gets its way is simply astounding... all we should really be looking for is success on teh pitch and if we have that I really dont give a flying feck who is in the board room, Lowe, Wilde, Crouch or the feckin man in the moon. To go on and on about the club only being put right if he goes are fighting for a victory for ignorance - the club will only be put right when we get financially stable and can move forward, who does that is less important than it actually happening - its a subtle but nevertheless important difference. If that sounds like patronizing sh!te or insults you, so be it, its not the intention but an opinion based on the perception of 4 or 5 years of posting on here and elsewhere. If Crouch comes up with a decent plan that will achieve this he will get my full support on here or anywhere, likewise anyone else, but i will not simply nail my colours to a mast based on the fan friendly rhetoric of the peoples champion. I dont have faith in Wotte, because I am presuming its more of the same taht sadly failed under JP. I do however want him to succeed and us stay up - and given our finances that will be no mean feat. Will it be enough for most? I doubt it, yet it was last season under Crouch and Pearson...what is the difference? The real difference, not the fact that we might hear a few more plesentaries eminating from the board room. Bring on the flak.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 There are many fans on HERE who give the PERCEPTION that nothing is more important to them than ridding the boardroom of the evildoers and have felt like that for a long time. There are others that have jumped on this bandwagon without wanting to really debate the case. Waffle on as much as you like, but the bottom line reamins that it is extremely patronising to assume that only you (and those in "your" camp) have the moral fibre to accept being wrong if it meant the Club benefitted. There are a very few (and in no way the "many" you like to whinge about) who would like to see Lowe fail even if it meant the Club failed as well. A couple of loons, the odd troll and a Portsmuff fan, that's it. IMHO the vast majority of Saints fans want us to succeed, regardless of who is in charge and whoever gets the plaudits. To suggest otherwise is pretty insulting. I can even remember starting (or maybe contributing to) a thread to dispel such a myth and I think there were probably only two or three respondents who said they wanted Saints to fail just so Lowe could be gotten rid of. So do you really think that those who have an opposing view to you must by default have a lower integrity threshold than your goodself? That tehy would not be capable to act in the manner that you would? There are many honourable people on both sides of the argument, and your sweeping accusation regarding those on one side is rather pathetic IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Here we go again... UP the defender of the down trodden... 'insulting' 'pompous' ..bo!!0x - Can you not see the difference between what you believe is the 'real feeling' and the perception provided by many in the anti camp here? Why is such a question 'not helpful' .... because it irritates? because it might be closer to the truth than many would care to admit? This has nothing to do my 'my integrity'... I am sure there are many who are far better scoring on that account than me, but there are also many that appear to thrive in the 'disunity' as it serves a purpose. FFS when will someone have the balls to stand up and say what many are thinking but dare not utter for fear of the tribal backlash? I am going to say it and you can accuse me of being as insulting as you like, I really dont care because whilst you defend them, we never get the truth... now please read this carefully because I dont want it taken out of context: There are many fans on HERE who give the PERCEPTION that nothing is more important to them than ridding the boardroom of the evildoers and have felt like that for a long time. There are others that have jumped on this bandwagon without wanting to really debate the case. Sure there are many who do provide sensible debate and argue with logic and reason, but they too are often criticised and 'cyber bullied'. This is football, a game, nothing more nothing less and to see some of the rhetoric bandied about, the childish glee and schardenfreude witnessed when the mob gets its way is simply astounding... all we should really be looking for is success on teh pitch and if we have that I really dont give a flying feck who is in the board room, Lowe, Wilde, Crouch or the feckin man in the moon. To go on and on about the club only being put right if he goes are fighting for a victory for ignorance - the club will only be put right when we get financially stable and can move forward, who does that is less important than it actually happening - its a subtle but nevertheless important difference. If that sounds like patronizing sh!te or insults you, so be it, its not the intention but an opinion based on the perception of 4 or 5 years of posting on here and elsewhere. If Crouch comes up with a decent plan that will achieve this he will get my full support on here or anywhere, likewise anyone else, but i will not simply nail my colours to a mast based on the fan friendly rhetoric of the peoples champion. I dont have faith in Wotte, because I am presuming its more of the same taht sadly failed under JP. I do however want him to succeed and us stay up - and given our finances that will be no mean feat. Will it be enough for most? I doubt it, yet it was last season under Crouch and Pearson...what is the difference? The real difference, not the fact that we might hear a few more plesentaries eminating from the board room. Bring on the flak.... Well said Frank. I think there are a lot of lurkers here who will agree with you but are put off posting because of the way that anyone who tries to post reasonable things get slated by those who only see one way forward, and that is their way. Disunity rules ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Waffle on as much as you like, but the bottom line reamins that it is extremely patronising to assume that only you (and those in "your" camp) have the moral fibre to accept being wrong if it meant the Club benefitted. There are a very few (and in no way the "many" you like to whinge about) who would like to see Lowe fail even if it meant the Club failed as well. A couple of loons, the odd troll and a Portsmuff fan, that's it. IMHO the vast majority of Saints fans want us to succeed, regardless of who is in charge and whoever gets the plaudits. To suggest otherwise is pretty insulting. I can even remember starting (or maybe contributing to) a thread to dispel such a myth and I think there were probably only two or three respondents who said they wanted Saints to fail just so Lowe could be gotten rid of. So do you really think that those who have an opposing view to you must by default have a lower integrity threshold than your goodself? That tehy would not be capable to act in the manner that you would? There are many honourable people on both sides of the argument, and your sweeping accusation regarding those on one side is rather pathetic IMHO.Im not puttin you in the category but i do think there are a few who want us to lose so they can sing the anti Lowe songs or a player manager fail just because RL picked them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Im not puttin you in the category but i do think there are a few who want us to lose so they can sing the anti Lowe songs or a player manager fail just because RL picked them And I would accept a few, a few who are bitter, twisted and have lost their sense of rationality. Just like there a few who are bitter and twisted against Crouch, McMenemy, Wilde, Corbett, Jones, Cowen, etc etc etc. But that's a world away from saying many of those who hold a valid reason for not wanting Lowe involved in the decision making, would rather we went down/go into administration, as opposed to seeing us survive and blossom and be proved wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Sorry UP, you have done it again by trying to suggest that I am somehow trying to be superior or saying noone else has teh moral integrity etc... thats is simpy not what is being said and you know it. BUt it helps create me to be some sort of bbig headed loon so can be conveniently ignored. I AM not the only person able to make this distinction, and as I pointed out (but you chose to ignore) there are many on teh anti camp who have based this decision on nothing more than pure footballing and economic terms and their opinion is just and valued and debated and respected, but as you know \i am not talking about these folk - what we disagreew on it seems is teh number taht fall into the camp that i am criticising, you say a few, I believe there are more than that especially when added to by those who just join teh mob without even thinking. It does you credit to defend them, but I cant agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Hola, I agree that many people see this in balck and white. I don't. I also don't se myself as a fence sitter. Why do you HAVE to take sides? My side has always been SFC. There are times when I think decsions have been made that are good for SFC and times when I think they are not so good. That is the big plus about taking a broader view, you don't paint yourself into a corner. There are some people here who hate Lowe so much they actually think he is deliberatly trying to ruin the club. I am sorry but I think that is ridiculous. I do believe that he really thinks that he is doing the right thing for the future of the club - why fault him for that? He obviously made a mistake with JP and has changed things around. Whether Wotte is any betyter it remains to be seen, but if Lowe was out to destroy SFC wouldn't he have left JP in charge? Once you get yourself an agenda it is very difficult to see the situation in an objective light. If you had read an earlier mail you would have seen that I was surprised that Lowe came back and didn't think it was a good idea. Now he is back I also think that he is a better bet to run things for now (better than Wilde or Crouch that is). I would much rather the club had found a financier and someone else to run it. There, not black and white but hardly a fence sitter either. You make some very interesting points and i agree with most of it. However IMO I feel that their is hardly any gray area, one supports him or they don't! simple! I think you have to take sides in this situation, as Mr lowe runs SFC, the side you say you are on! The only grey areas come into it when one has picked their side. ie wether to blame the man for the terrible weather you are having! I also dislike this man being anywhere our club and would much rather Leon Crouch let back in to run things at the moment, simply because I think he can approach the football side of the business better. I dont paint myself into a corner by picking sides as I dont come down on the man for everything he does, I actually think he does some things well,(the finances for example) so that still makes me objective, just on the side of the anti Lowe mob. Anyway nice to have some well thought out rational discussion for a change! Long may it continue! That said I still may post crap in the heat of the moment. so apologies in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 You make some very interesting points and i agree with most of it. However IMO I feel that their is hardly any gray area, one supports him or they don't! simple! I think you have to take sides in this situation, as Mr lowe runs SFC, the side you say you are on! The only grey areas come into it when one has picked their side. ie wether to blame the man for the terrible weather you are having! I also dislike this man being anywhere our club and would much rather Leon Crouch let back in to run things at the moment, simply because I think he can approach the football side of the business better. I dont paint myself into a corner by picking sides as I dont come down on the man for everything he does, I actually think he does some things well,(the finances for example) so that still makes me objective, just on the side of the anti Lowe mob. Anyway nice to have some well thought out rational discussion for a change! Long may it continue! That said I still may post crap in the heat of the moment. so apologies in advance. If you only post cr*p in the heat of the moment you are doing better than most of us!!! Thing is, when Lowe goes, as he will, if the next bloke doesn't set the world alight he too will get a roasting, and so it wil go on.....still it keeps us of the streets!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 (edited) If you only post cr*p in the heat of the moment you are doing better than most of us!!! Thing is, when Lowe goes, as he will, if the next bloke doesn't set the world alight he too will get a roasting, and so it wil go on.....still it keeps us of the streets!!! Well I for one would think that the next bloke deserves to get at least a decade of bizare decisions and utter contempt for the fans before we start to protest again! Also it is probably the snow and blizzards that are keeping you off the streets! Edited 2 February, 2009 by spain saint added! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I for one want administration because i believe that is the only way Lowe will be gone (99% sure). Without Lowe gone this club will never recover to anywhere near where it can be. I am happy to see short-term pain for long-term gain. That makes me rabid anti-lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I for one want administration because i believe that is the only way Lowe will be gone (99% sure). Without Lowe gone this club will never recover to anywhere near where it can be. I am happy to see short-term pain for long-term gain. That makes me rabid anti-lowe. you are foolish. If we go into administration and we go down can you CATEGORICALLY say you will go to all the home games in L1 or even L2? its easy to wish for these things if you dont intend to go anyway. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I for one want administration because i believe that is the only way Lowe will be gone (99% sure). Without Lowe gone this club will never recover to anywhere near where it can be. I am happy to see short-term pain for long-term gain. That makes me rabid anti-lowe. Ar... at last. But I admire your honesty even if i cant agree with what you say. Its wierd you see, despite what some may think of me, if the genie in the bottle guarranteed that if we let ourselves slip into relegation, admin, and Lowe was out, but this paved the way for teh succesful new era, of stability, growth and ultimately say in 3-4 years premiership return and european glory, I could take that.... sadly there aint no gurrantees or genies, and I believe administration will see us suffer for a long time, not short time. For me it our hope lies in the fact that there ares ome who will be desperate to avoid seeing their share investment dwindle to nothing. So its hoping they know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I think he would be better keeping his comments to footballing matters until he has earned the respect of the people who ultimately pay his wages. Easy with our judgement? My arce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 Even if we stay up,with Lowe in charge this is as good as it is going to get. He will run the club as cheaply as he can so that he can pay himself as much as he can in salary,benefits and dividends. This will overide any desire for success for the team.It will suit him down to the ground. Eventually he will have paid himself much more than the value of his shares. That has been his game from day one of his return. He knows no-one will pay him what he wants for his shares. This club will be run like a League 2 outfit to line Lowes pockets. If anyone wants that i feel sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I for one do think that wotte's comments were a bit offensive. He shouldnt have said those things. He is employed by lowe and has been here less than a season so doesnt know. I had the misfortune of bumping into wotte in banana wharf in august. I found him very arrogant and was amazed that before I had even mentioned lowe he brought up the subject and said "I dont understand the vast majority of the fans who want lowe out" what has he done. I then preceeded to inform him what we think lowe has done wrong and he looked open mouthed and quicky changed the subject to spurs' new signing gomez who had come from psv in holland. He actually did concede before he moved on that one of the things I told him looked bad on lowe's part. Basically I came away thinking that he was pretty good mates with lowe and jan was an outsider. He did say he didnt know jan that well. The bottom line is shut up and manage my football team and dont tell me what I should do about something I have had to deal with as a supporter for nearly 13 years and you have been involved with for 8 months. To be fair sat was an improvement down to partly formation, partly increased effort, but also a lot more older heads and mainly marek saganowski. I just hope our new head coach doesnt make anymore gaffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 2 February, 2009 Share Posted 2 February, 2009 I for one do think that wotte's comments were a bit offensive. He shouldnt have said those things. He is employed by lowe and has been here less than a season so doesnt know. I had the misfortune of bumping into wotte in banana wharf in august. I found him very arrogant and was amazed that before I had even mentioned lowe he brought up the subject and said "I dont understand the vast majority of the fans who want lowe out" what has he done. I then preceeded to inform him what we think lowe has done wrong and he looked open mouthed and quicky changed the subject to spurs' new signing gomez who had come from psv in holland. He actually did concede before he moved on that one of the things I told him looked bad on lowe's part. Basically I came away thinking that he was pretty good mates with lowe and jan was an outsider. He did say he didnt know jan that well. The bottom line is shut up and manage my football team and dont tell me what I should do about something I have had to deal with as a supporter for nearly 13 years and you have been involved with for 8 months. To be fair sat was an improvement down to partly formation, partly increased effort, but also a lot more older heads and mainly marek saganowski. I just hope our new head coach doesnt make anymore gaffs. Good post that Roger. I hope we see Skacel back in and still puzzled why Rasiak is working for our rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 4 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Good post that Roger. I hope we see Skacel back in and still puzzled why Rasiak is working for our rivals. No Rudi last night Robbie!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 No Rudi last night Robbie!!!!Missing out on his move his head may not have been right.He needs to be palyed when he is focussed on us not Hertha Berlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 4 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Missing out on his move his head may not have been right.He needs to be palyed when he is focussed on us not Hertha Berlin Wotte to Rudi " i promised you a move and i will honour that promise, Hertha came in to late for the deal to be signed in time. Now is your shop window Rudi, I have faith in you, go out there and play for a move, show the world what you can do" It would make me think!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Wotte to Rudi " i promised you a move and i will honour that promise, Hertha came in to late for the deal to be signed in time. Now is your shop window Rudi, I have faith in you, go out there and play for a move, show the world what you can do" It would make me think!! Dont take this as a compliment, lol, but you wouldnt need to be told that because you are intelligent enough to realise it. Rudi had the fans eating out of his hand and sang his name whatever, I dont think he has quite yet repaid any of that devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 4 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Dont take this as a compliment, lol, but you wouldnt need to be told that because you are intelligent enough to realise it. Rudi had the fans eating out of his hand and sang his name whatever, I dont think he has quite yet repaid any of that devotion. Agree totally Nick, to be honest after all trumpeting from Burley et al about Rudi coming i was pretty excited, has never delivered really. Saying that I still think I'd of started him last night pushing surman further forward, could formed thier own Marsden and Bridge duet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Agree totally Nick, to be honest after all trumpeting from Burley et al about Rudi coming i was pretty excited, has never delivered really. Saying that I still think I'd of started him last night pushing surman further forward, could formed thier own Marsden and Bridge duet! IMO Rudi made bale to look better than he was, and I dearly would love him to show us what he really is capable of.I still dont think he is a defender and wonder what positin he played when he did so well at Hearts.Silly question but have we tried him where he played best? ps did you like my compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 4 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2009 IMO Rudi made bale to look better than he was, and I dearly would love him to show us what he really is capable of.I still dont think he is a defender and wonder what positin he played when he did so well at Hearts.Silly question but have we tried him where he played best? ps did you like my compliment Not getting into compliments etc with you, your a Luvvie, you know it and i know it :-) I thought Rudi played as an attacking midfielder for Hearts, thought that's why he was given the much coveted No. 7 shirt??? Ps. fancy coming on the March then Nick? I fancy the one leaving the stadium and heading to the pub, i would of walked out last night but I took my 8 year old daughter, she loves Saints (poor naive fool) but doesn't get to go often because of her dancing competitions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Not getting into compliments etc with you, your a Luvvie, you know it and i know it :-) I thought Rudi played as an attacking midfielder for Hearts, thought that's why he was given the much coveted No. 7 shirt??? Ps. fancy coming on the March then Nick? I fancy the one leaving the stadium and heading to the pub, i would of walked out last night but I took my 8 year old daughter, she loves Saints (poor naive fool) but doesn't get to go often because of her dancing competitions! Im just a luv jason. I thought the last march was done with dignity and much to my surprise it wasn't hijacked by the fools. SRS 's idea I dont see the point of. you may as well organise the 2nd one to start at SMS at 2.50 and then march away. I try to think positives about our club and as a respect lady fan I spoke to at the Swansea game said 'there is no point unless we have a viable alternative'. That is what is so confusing for fans like myself who are not rabid anti RL, I can see why he made the cuts but am not for jans tenure and Wotte is too soon to judge.Is LC suitable? His actions seem to me as rabble rousing and whilst i can see he is well meaning I dont think he is any better than we have. At present we are still afloat and still able to get out of the position we are in, it is whether we as a club have the guts to get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 4 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2009 Im just a luv jason. I thought the last march was done with dignity and much to my surprise it wasn't hijacked by the fools. SRS 's idea I dont see the point of. you may as well organise the 2nd one to start at SMS at 2.50 and then march away. I try to think positives about our club and as a respect lady fan I spoke to at the Swansea game said 'there is no point unless we have a viable alternative'. That is what is so confusing for fans like myself who are not rabid anti RL, I can see why he made the cuts but am not for jans tenure and Wotte is too soon to judge.Is LC suitable? His actions seem to me as rabble rousing and whilst i can see he is well meaning I dont think he is any better than we have. At present we are still afloat and still able to get out of the position we are in, it is whether we as a club have the guts to get out of it. I understand you sentiments mate regarding the cost cutting and your connection with said cuts and Lowe, but it's already been proved that he is working to Crouch's plan. Lowe has stated that the corners were already due to shut before he came, Crouch had loaned out our 2 highest earners last season so we can see he'd of taken the tough decisions needed. The big differences i feel to then and now is the fan base was pretty united, we had a chairman that believed in his manager and was prepared to let him get on with his job and back him. Um- pahars did some excellent research and quoted Pearson saying how much he saw the academy as an asset to any forward thinking club, he's showing now he can blend academy, loanees and pro's @ Leicester. imo last year we had the management, team & unity to take us forward, now all we have is despair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 I understand you sentiments mate regarding the cost cutting and your connection with said cuts and Lowe, but it's already been proved that he is working to Crouch's plan. Lowe has stated that the corners were already due to shut before he came, Crouch had loaned out our 2 highest earners last season so we can see he'd of taken the tough decisions needed. The big differences i feel to then and now is the fan base was pretty united, we had a chairman that believed in his manager and was prepared to let him get on with his job and back him. Um- pahars did some excellent research and quoted Pearson saying how much he saw the academy as an asset to any forward thinking club, he's showing now he can blend academy, loanees and pro's @ Leicester. imo last year we had the management, team & unity to take us forward, now all we have is despair! I dont think RL is following anyones plan except his own.If not why would some want LC back. I fully understand the logic and need to try the youth, but Jan made the mistake of youth only and a rigid formation. i was not pro NP but I was happy for him to stay because the fans were behind him.To me they gave him an easy ride compared to others, as if any other manger had taken us so close to relegation after taking the club from mid table they would be baying for his head.That said NP is doing a very good job and i will say better than I thought he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 It just seems that the comments from Wotte are to protect his job and find favour with Rupert. We will get no sanity until Lowe has finally departed from our midst. Come on Crouch invest that £2 million in buying Lowes and some of Wildes shares. At 17p you could afford over 11.5 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 4 February, 2009 Share Posted 4 February, 2009 It just seems that the comments from Wotte are to protect his job and find favour with Rupert. We will get no sanity until Lowe has finally departed from our midst. Come on Crouch invest that £2 million in buying Lowes and some of Wildes shares. At 17p you could afford over 11.5 million I cant blame Wotte for towing the the company line in public - thats bets practice Interesting challenge to Crouch re the 2 mil share investment - problem is Snowballs if he baught 11 mil shares he would hold way over 30% and be obkliged to make the same offer for all the shares under stock markt rules and I dont think he has the cash or balls to go it alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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