A really tedious argument about stats and Spelling

[Turkish]

  On 12/04/2025 at 05:12, Matthew Le God said:

Are you unable to explain why it is bollocks?

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Your words and behaviours speak for themselves 

[Midfield_General]

  On 11/04/2025 at 19:12, Matthew Le God said:

All means very little. The odds reflect punters reading media stories and making bets based on those rumours, not liklihood of each manager getting the job. Next manager markets fluctuate on some very low bets being placed.

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Thanks for explaining how bookmakers work, I had literally no idea. 

How do you think the stories get written in the first place? Journalists often base their stories on leads, tip-offs and insider knowledge from connections at clubs, from agents and elsewhere within the game. Clubs and agents also feed information to selected journalists. All these factors contribute to the stories which go into the media and which create the rumours, which people then place bets on which impacts the odds the bookies offer. 

Not all of it will be accurate of course, there are plenty of social media bullshitters pretending to know things they don’t which can influence people, lots of the rumours will be serving different agendas, and things will change over the course of the process for any number of reasons, but to dismiss bookies odds as basically meaningless is simplistic, ill-informed and reductive, and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how both football and the multi-billion pound betting industry works. 

Edited Saturday at 08:36 by Midfield_General

[Matthew Le God]

  On 12/04/2025 at 07:35, Turkish said:

Your words and behaviours speak for themselves 

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So you can't. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Turkish]

  On 12/04/2025 at 10:25, Matthew Le God said:

So you can't. Thanks for clearing that up!

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No need you do it for me 😂😂😂

[Holmes_and_Watson]

  On 11/04/2025 at 17:19, Turkish said:

We need to stop trying to be clever and bring in someone who is experienced, knows the league, how to get out of it and let him do it with the team he brings. No trying to be clever, none of this data driven or philosophy nonsense. Steve Cooper is the obvious, stand out candidate by a mile, ticks every single box

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  On 11/04/2025 at 17:37, Matthew Le God said:

1) Pochettino and Koeman hadn't managed in England before, they both did exceptionally well for us. Do you think they 'knew the league' before they joined?

The league label you put on a game doesn't impact the match. So if a manager has experience in another top league/competition why does it matter if he hasn't managed in England before?

2) Data is evidence... why would you not want to use evidence when making a decision?

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1) Turkish did not say that only a manager who knew this particular league could be successful.

2) By your reasoning, someone occasionally noting down that we sold a packet of cheese and onion is a basis for signing a striker. "Data is evidence" and  "why would you not want to use evidence."

Out in the real world there are evolving fields for data analysis to enhance the decision making process. Establishing frameworks, processes, validation, establishing variables and testing are all part of this. To glibly just state "data is evidence" as if it replaces other processes, or other opinions, once again shows you, as Midfield General said, as "simplistic, ill-informed and reductive, and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how... football...works."

Just as well for the club that, despite you looking down your nose at them, you're not involved in any video scouting. Who knows what rubbish you'd have come up with, left to your own devices? More likely, who knows how many hours you'd waste defending your nonsense?

Before you return to lurking under your bridge, could you come back to the many threads you've sulked away from after irritating people?

It's as easy as 1,2,3 to do. Sorry, in your case, it should be as easy as 1 and some other numbers you don't understand.

[Turkish]

  On 12/04/2025 at 10:51, Holmes_and_Watson said:

 

1) Turkish did not say that only a manager who knew this particular league could be successful.

2) By your reasoning, someone occasionally noting down that we sold a packet of cheese and onion is a basis for signing a striker. "Data is evidence" and  "why would you not want to use evidence."

Out in the real world there are evolving fields for data analysis to enhance the decision making process. Establishing frameworks, processes, validation, establishing variables and testing are all part of this. To glibly just state "data is evidence" as if it replaces other processes, or other opinions, once again shows you, as Midfield General said, as "simplistic, ill-informed and reductive, and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how... football...works."

Just as well for the club that, despite you looking down your nose at them, you're not involved in any video scouting. Who knows what rubbish you'd have come up with, left to your own devices? More likely, who knows how many hours you'd waste defending your nonsense?

Before you return to lurking under your bridge, could you come back to the many threads you've sulked away from after irritating people?

It's as easy as 1,2,3 to do. Sorry, in your case, it should be as easy as 1 and some other numbers you don't understand.

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He gives these silly replies thinking it’s some sort of gotcha. Koeman and Poch did well for us but funny how he doesn’t mention Pellegrini, Puel, Jones, Martin, Selles and Juric who failed (Puel didn’t but fans hated him) who hadn’t managed in the premier league 

data is part of the evidence not all of it, Jones claimed he was statistically one of the best managers in Europe, a decision based on just data gets you Nathan Jones, it also tells you Vestergaard was at one time of the best centre backs in Europe we know both are complete nonsense 

Unfortunately this is what happens in an era when data has given spreadsheet jockeys reason to think they’re experts. Data is important but it’s part of the overall picture not the be all and end all. 
 

 

[Doctoroncall]

  On 12/04/2025 at 11:35, Turkish said:

He gives these silly replies thinking it’s some sort of gotcha. Koeman and Poch did well for us but funny how he doesn’t mention Pellegrini, Puel, Jones, Martin, Selles and Juric who failed (Puel didn’t but fans hated him) who hadn’t managed in the premier league 

data is part of the evidence not all of it, Jones claimed he was statistically one of the best managers in Europe, a decision based on just data gets you Nathan Jones, it also tells you Vestergaard was at one time of the best centre backs in Europe we know both are complete nonsense 

Unfortunately this is what happens in an era when data has given spreadsheet jockeys reason to think they’re experts. Data is important but it’s part of the overall picture not the be all and end all. 
 

 

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As the well known saying goes, ‘He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts – for support rather than for illumination.’
 

it’s the reasoning and interpretation behind the data which is also important. 

[Turkish]

  On 12/04/2025 at 13:45, Doctoroncall said:

As the well known saying goes, ‘He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts – for support rather than for illumination.’
 

it’s the reasoning and interpretation behind the data which is also important. 

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Exactly the stats tell us Simon rusk has so far never conceded a goal as a manager, take that at face value without looking into it he’s one of the best managers of all time 

[Matthew Le God]

  On 12/04/2025 at 11:35, Turkish said:

He gives these silly replies thinking it’s some sort of gotcha. Koeman and Poch did well for us but funny how he doesn’t mention Pellegrini, Puel, Jones, Martin, Selles and Juric who failed (Puel didn’t but fans hated him) who hadn’t managed in the premier league 

data is part of the evidence not all of it, Jones claimed he was statistically one of the best managers in Europe, a decision based on just data gets you Nathan Jones, it also tells you Vestergaard was at one time of the best centre backs in Europe we know both are complete nonsense 

Unfortunately this is what happens in an era when data has given spreadsheet jockeys reason to think they’re experts. Data is important but it’s part of the overall picture not the be all and end all. 
 

 

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Utter nonsense yet again!

1) I did not say not managing in the PL before guaranteed success either. Why time after time are you unable to grasp that saying one thing does not mean another?

2) I did not say all of it.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 12/04/2025 at 15:02, Turkish said:

Exactly the stats tell us Simon rusk has so far never conceded a goal as a manager, take that at face value without looking into it he’s one of the best managers of all time 

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More nonsense!

He managed Stockport for 42 games, conceding numerous goals.

Even if you meant just for Saints... Liverpool scored vs Rusk's Saints

[Matthew Le God]

  On 12/04/2025 at 13:45, Doctoroncall said:

As the well known saying goes, ‘He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts – for support rather than for illumination.’
 

it’s the reasoning and interpretation behind the data which is also important. 

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At no point did I say otherwise. You have built a strawman argument!

[Doctoroncall]

  On 12/04/2025 at 15:44, Matthew Le God said:

At no point did I say otherwise. You have built a strawman argument!

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What strawman argument?

[Matthew Le God]

  On 12/04/2025 at 15:49, Doctoroncall said:

What strawman argument?

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Your second sentence. 

[ErwinK1961]

  On 12/04/2025 at 15:44, Matthew Le God said:

At no point did I say otherwise. You have built a strawman argument!

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Any chance you’ll take another year off the forum when we go down?

[Doctoroncall]

  On 12/04/2025 at 15:58, Matthew Le God said:

Your second sentence. 

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Explain. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

  On 12/04/2025 at 17:33, ErwinK1961 said:

Any chance you’ll take another year off the forum when we go down?

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Any chance it could be longer than a year?

[Fabrice29]

  On 11/04/2025 at 17:19, Turkish said:

We need to stop trying to be clever and bring in someone who is experienced, knows the league, how to get out of it and let him do it with the team he brings. No trying to be clever, none of this data driven or philosophy nonsense. Steve Cooper is the obvious, stand out candidate by a mile, ticks every single box

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Is wanting a manager with experience of getting promoted out of the Championship being on their CV not data driven nonsense?

Edited Saturday at 18:25 by Fabrice29

[Matthew Le God]

  On 12/04/2025 at 18:13, Doctoroncall said:

Explain. 

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It is a fallacy 

[Doctoroncall]

  On 12/04/2025 at 18:24, Matthew Le God said:

It is a fallacy 

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A statistical fallacy. You got there in the end. 

[Turkish]

  On 12/04/2025 at 18:22, Fabrice29 said:

Is wanting a manager with experience of getting promoted out of the Championship being on their CV not data driven nonsense?

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No

[Turkish]

  On 12/04/2025 at 18:14, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Any chance it could be longer than a year?

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People will be grizzling hes getting bullied again soon 😂😂😂

[Mboto Gorge]

Does MLG actually have his own opinions or is his contribution to this forum purely just to get into everyone’s skin, trying to be a smart arse, being pedantic at every turn, never admitting he’s wrong and going to extreme lengths to use technicalities if needed, to do so. All I ever see infecting this forum like a plague is this guy going out of his way to gaslight most posters, and make no contribution of his own other than to endlessly try to discredit anything other posters say, unless of course it’s something positive about the club. Amazed this guy is still allowed to post.

Edited Sunday at 00:17 by Mboto Gorge

[Turkish]

  On 13/04/2025 at 00:16, Mboto Gorge said:

Does MLG actually have his own opinions or is his contribution to this forum purely just to get into everyone’s skin, trying to be a smart arse, being pedantic at every turn, never admitting he’s wrong and going to extreme lengths to use technicalities if needed, to do so. All I ever see infecting this forum like a plague is this guy going out of his way to gaslight most posters, and make no contribution of his own other than to endlessly try to discredit anything other posters say, unless of course it’s something positive about the club. Amazed this guy is still allowed to post.

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He has opinions. Jamie White and Kyle Mcclaggon going to be stars of the future, we’ll have expanded st Mary’s by 2015, Saints have more match going fans than Everton (despite us never in our history has a season with a higher average attendance than them) the Jonas Brothers are awesome. 

[Appy]

  On 13/04/2025 at 09:35, Matthew Le God said:

 

1) We played that style under Hassenhuttl and at for some spells it worked, and worked well. The 2020 calender year being the most effective period.

2) We have spent a lot. Last two Premier League seasons we've spent £260m+ on transfers/loan fees. That is a huge amount of money. But it was largely poorly spent.

3) Let's wait and see if Johannes Spors is that man! 

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It’s spelt Hasenhuttl

[Matthew Le God]

  On 13/04/2025 at 10:36, Appy said:

It’s spelt Hasenhuttl

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Wrong, it is spelt Hasenhüttl. If you are going to correct my typo on a small phone screen keyboard at least get the spelling right yourself!

Edited Sunday at 10:44 by Matthew Le God

[Fabrice29]

  On 12/04/2025 at 20:08, Turkish said:

No

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Ticking boxes literally is data. Anyway, other than having got Forest promoted (he's also failed to get a team promoted from the Championship btw) are you able to articulate why you like Cooper as an obvious choice? I'm genuinely intrigued, not being combative. 

[Toussaint]

  On 13/04/2025 at 00:16, Mboto Gorge said:

Does MLG actually have his own opinions or is his contribution to this forum purely just to get into everyone’s skin, trying to be a smart arse, being pedantic at every turn, never admitting he’s wrong and going to extreme lengths to use technicalities if needed, to do so. All I ever see infecting this forum like a plague is this guy going out of his way to gaslight most posters, and make no contribution of his own other than to endlessly try to discredit anything other posters say, unless of course it’s something positive about the club. Amazed this guy is still allowed to post.

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He’s harmless and doesn’t have bad intentions, from what I’ve observed. He can be irritating but that’s easily managed by exercising the choice not to engage. Some of the pile ons have been very unsavoury over the years.

 

I can think of a few more obnoxious characters on here. 

[Wade Garrett]

  On 13/04/2025 at 00:16, Mboto Gorge said:

Does MLG actually have his own opinions or is his contribution to this forum purely just to get into everyone’s skin, trying to be a smart arse, being pedantic at every turn, never admitting he’s wrong and going to extreme lengths to use technicalities if needed, to do so. All I ever see infecting this forum like a plague is this guy going out of his way to gaslight most posters, and make no contribution of his own other than to endlessly try to discredit anything other posters say, unless of course it’s something positive about the club. Amazed this guy is still allowed to post.

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Well said.  His user name should be thrush.

Edited Sunday at 12:41 by Wade Garrett

[Badger]

  On 13/04/2025 at 10:36, Appy said:

It’s spelt Hasenhuttl

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  On 13/04/2025 at 10:39, Matthew Le God said:

Wrong, it is spelt Hasenhüttl. If you are going to correct my typo on a small phone screen keyboard at least get the spelling right yourself!

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Christ on a bike ! Even by the standards of pedantry on the Mongboard this is a new level.

MLG, genuine question, but how do you get an umlaut off of an iPhone ?  Just in case I need one in the future. 

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 13/04/2025 at 12:58, Badger said:

 

 
 

Christ on a bike ! Even by the standards of pedantry on the Mongboard this is a new level.

MLG, genuine question, but how do you get an umlaut off of an iPhone ?  Just in case I need one in the future. 

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It’s a bugbear of mine when foreign words are spelt without the appropriate accents. Leaving them out can even change their meaning.

On an iPhone they’re very simple to type. Just leave your finger resting on the appropriate letter (for ü that would be the u) and your options will appear. Then slide your finger across and release it over the one that you have chosen.

On a desktop PC it’s a lot more difficult. There are some key combinations for the common ones such as Ctrl-Alt-e but for most of them you need to learn the ALT numeric codes. The € symbol is (from memory) Alt-0128

[Badger]

  On 13/04/2025 at 13:18, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s a bugbear of mine when foreign words are spelt without the appropriate accents. Leaving them out can even change their meaning.

On an iPhone they’re very simple to type. Just leave your finger resting on the appropriate letter (for ü that would be the u) and your options will appear. Then slide your finger across and release it over the one that you have chosen.

On a desktop PC it’s a lot more difficult. There are some key combinations for the common ones such as Ctrl-Alt-e but for most of them you need to learn the ALT numeric codes. The € symbol is (from memory) Alt-0128

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Thanks.

Fücking brilliant. 

[ApprenticeBillionaire]

  On 13/04/2025 at 12:58, Badger said:

 

 
 

Christ on a bike ! Even by the standards of pedantry on the Mongboard this is a new level.

MLG, genuine question, but how do you get an umlaut off of an iPhone ?  Just in case I need one in the future. 

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Bloke just sits on here for hours on end arguing the toss about stupid shit.

Got no life at all.

I read an expression somewhere, never argue with someone who actually wants to fight.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 13/04/2025 at 13:27, Badger said:

Thanks.

Fücking brilliant. 

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You’re very welcome.

You probably know of another useful iPhone keyboard shortcut where instead of typing shift and then the symbol above the letter you simply swipe down on the letter itself. This can be useful for entering the occasional number for example.

[Doctoroncall]

  On 13/04/2025 at 13:40, Whitey Grandad said:

You’re very welcome.

You probably know of another useful iPhone keyboard shortcut where instead of typing shift and then the symbol above the letter you simply swipe down on the letter itself. This can be useful for entering the occasional number for example.

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I know it’s off topic but there is so much to un-tap in phones to make them more efficient and effective. Plenty on YouTube or other platforms. I like Tyler Poelking.