Saints 1-1 Palace - Match Thread

[Football Special]

12 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Onuachu was fucked when he came off. Not much Juric could have done about that

This is true, looked like he was asking to come off, as was Sulemana 

[ant]

That was a golden chance to stumble over the lowest possible bar.

But of course we spurned it. This is one of the most gutless 'top' level sides in history.

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Been massively overplayed due to our desperation. 

Maybe. My feeling is he’s just not as good as his head thought he was and he’s now demoralised.

[BotleySaint]

Missed the whole match as I was out tonight. Have logged on and been pleasantly surprised we got a point. Every little counts. Just need two more! 

Edited yesterday at 21:08 by BotleySaint

[Football Special]

16 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Absolutely this - not sure what’s going on with the lad, but he’s no where near worth £100m! Looks more like worthy of £1m to be honest.

He'd benefit from a couple of games with u21s out of the spotlight I think 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

Anyone know what Derby's goal difference was? Could come down to fine margins.

[suewhistle]

Just read a few of the comments and by goodness there are some of you who positively enjoy our shitness. From that game I took some heart that the players were at least trying, Downes in particular was in the game. I'd like to see their goal again; I was actually there and in the ground you don't get replays. The crowd was a lot more positive tonight, in response to the performance.

[Mboto Gorge]

5 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Anyone know what Derby's goal difference was? Could come down to fine margins.

Minus 69 I think, F20 A89.

id back us to get a worse GD than that, we are already minus 49, so 8 games left to get less than a negative 20 GD. With city and Arsenal still to play, plus villa, it’s looking grim. 

Edited yesterday at 21:23 by Mboto Gorge

[Midfield_General]

31 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Absolute daylight robbery that Palace got anything from that.

They didn’t rob us, we handed it to them. 

Shit substitutions that handed them the midfield. Shit headers from THB. Stephens lost his man. Ramsdale should have stopped it. 

All self-inflicted, as per usual. Palace were poor, but knew they just needed to keep playing and plodding on, doing the basics because they knew we’d shoot ourselves in the foot eventually. And we did. 

Edited yesterday at 21:24 by Midfield_General

[Andy Hill]

A Palace goal was inevitable with a back 3 including Stephens and Bednarek.

[CougarSaint]

7 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

They didn’t rob us, we handed it to them. 

Shit substitutions that handed them the midfield. Shit headers from THB. Stephens lost his man. Ramsdale should have stopped it. 

All self-inflicted, as per usual. Palace were poor, but knew they just needed to keep playing and plodding on, doing the basics because they knew we’d shoot ourselves in the foot eventually. And we did. 

I can imagine myself in the opposing dressing room... don't worry lads,even if they go four up, don't worry, you'll win 5-4, and we always live up to it.

[beatlesaint]

9 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Stephens lost his man. 

Not like that’s never happened before 😒

[CougarSaint]

Just now, CougarSaint said:

I can imagine myself in the opposing dressing room... don't worry lads,even if they go four up, don't worry, you'll win 5-4, and we always live up to it.

Sorry, should be drop down to it 😕 

[die Mannyschaft]

What a performance.sims brilliant play, decent tackles. But again some pointless subs lost us to the points. Dibling is a complete waste of a sub. Lucky if we get 50p for him. 

[Zorba]

Well, we did better than I thought. A fair effort. I’d have taken a point before the game. We should have seen it out tho. 

[Zorba]

6 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

What a performance.sims brilliant play, decent tackles. But again some pointless subs lost us to the points. Dibling is a complete waste of a sub. Lucky if we get 50p for him. 

Are you joshing?

[HarvSFC]

Since the introduction of five subs, I've been beating the same drum every week. You don't need to make five substitutions because they're available. We've all seen friendly matches since we started watching football where after the subs, the match become disjointed. You're changing half the outfield team and we keep turning to the squad players when our first eleven is bad, let alone the squad players. Happened against United and it happened again tonight. I'll always draw the comparison with Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal as well. The three best teams in the country of the last few years, who barely ever make all five of their subs. Arsenal made three last night, and one was forced in the first half with Gabriel. Liverpool made two in the 90 minutes and Manchester City made two in the 90 minutes. While, we're making all five and those three have bigger and much better squads. If a player can't last the 90 after three weeks off then they shouldn't be here.

On the subs, Ugochukwu for Aribo. Okay, he's not going to track back or win the ball, but he can try and help us keep the ball a bit. He's carryable in the team, but did weaken the midfield, giving Downes more to do. Manning off for Wellington, okay Manning went down a couple of times just before with what looked like a shoulder injury, like for like change, add a bit of energy into the team. And then the last three... We gave up our two out balls and completely gave up the midfield as we took off our only defensive midfielder. Bringing on Dibling, who's clearly getting a move elsewhere and hasn't looked interested since Martin got the boot. Sugawara, who is an accident waiting to happen and Archer, who again is looking for a move elsewhere and his only contribution was handballing the ball in the box from an attacking throw-in.

Onto the positives. All season, I've been saying our players have been too scared to make a tackle, get close to the opposition or try and win the ball. That wasn't the case tonight. For the first time this season Onuachu closed down the goalkeeper and fortunately for Henderson the ball bounced off him for a goal kick, but it was a positive move. Fernandes won the ball high up the pitch too, but Onuachu couldn't get his feet sorted and there was a chance in the first half that Onuachu lashed at wide after we got the ball up the pitch. Even in the closing minutes Wellington ran around like a mad man, made the Palace defence panic and they kicked the ball back to us. Rather, than letting the opposition play out of their half. There was also a sequence within about five minutes of each other where Ugochukwu and Downes won the ball with sliding tackles. Feels like I haven't seen a sliding tackle from us all season.

If we had played like that all season we'd have a fair amount more points on the board. That's how Ipswich have played each week, battling despite their limitations.

Fun stat - With Harwood-Bellis, Bednarek, Stephens, Walker-Peters, Manning, Bree, Wood, Sugawara, Wellington and Bella-Kotchap , we started the match with more defenders in the match squad than we had points.

[Ekelund]

2 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Since the introduction of five subs, I've been beating the same drum every week. You don't need to make five substitutions because they're available. We've all seen friendly matches since we started watching football where after the subs, the match become disjointed. You're changing half the outfield team and we keep turning to the squad players when our first eleven is bad, let alone the squad players. Happened against United and it happened again tonight. I'll always draw the comparison with Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal as well. The three best teams in the country of the last few years, who barely ever make all five of their subs. Arsenal made three last night, and one was forced in the first half with Gabriel. Liverpool made two in the 90 minutes and Manchester City made two in the 90 minutes. While, we're making all five and those three have bigger and much better squads. If a player can't last the 90 after three weeks off then they shouldn't be here.

On the subs, Ugochukwu for Aribo. Okay, he's not going to track back or win the ball, but he can try and help us keep the ball a bit. He's carryable in the team, but did weaken the midfield, giving Downes more to do. Manning off for Wellington, okay Manning went down a couple of times just before with what looked like a shoulder injury, like for like change, add a bit of energy into the team. And then the last three... We gave up our two out balls and completely gave up the midfield as we took off our only defensive midfielder. Bringing on Dibling, who's clearly getting a move elsewhere and hasn't looked interested since Martin got the boot. Sugawara, who is an accident waiting to happen and Archer, who again is looking for a move elsewhere and his only contribution was handballing the ball in the box from an attacking throw-in.

Onto the positives. All season, I've been saying our players have been too scared to make a tackle, get close to the opposition or try and win the ball. That wasn't the case tonight. For the first time this season Onuachu closed down the goalkeeper and fortunately for Henderson the ball bounced off him for a goal kick, but it was a positive move. Fernandes won the ball high up the pitch too, but Onuachu couldn't get his feet sorted and there was a chance in the first half that Onuachu lashed at wide after we got the ball up the pitch. Even in the closing minutes Wellington ran around like a mad man, made the Palace defence panic and they kicked the ball back to us. Rather, than letting the opposition play out of their half. There was also a sequence within about five minutes of each other where Ugochukwu and Downes won the ball with sliding tackles. Feels like I haven't seen a sliding tackle from us all season.

If we had played like that all season we'd have a fair amount more points on the board. That's how Ipswich have played each week, battling despite their limitations.

Fun stat - With Harwood-Bellis, Bednarek, Stephens, Walker-Peters, Manning, Bree, Wood, Sugawara, Wellington and Bella-Kotchap , we started the match with more defenders in the match squad than we had points.

What he said 👍

[notnowcato]

58 minutes ago, ant said:

That was a golden chance to stumble over the lowest possible bar.

But of course we spurned it. This is one of the most gutless 'top' level sides in history.

Tonight came down to one poor bit of defensive quality, they showed plenty of guts and determination this evening. 

[Gloucester Saint]

46 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Not like that’s never happened before 😒

Hope Jack never gets involved in prisoner transport and custody services to Exeter Crown Court after his playing days. There’d never be any trials because Jack lost the prisoner in transit.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

They didn’t rob us, we handed it to them. 

Shit substitutions that handed them the midfield. Shit headers from THB. Stephens lost his man. Ramsdale should have stopped it. 

All self-inflicted, as per usual. Palace were poor, but knew they just needed to keep playing and plodding on, doing the basics because they knew we’d shoot ourselves in the foot eventually. And we did. 

The unnecessary handball in the box from Archer late on summed it up for me. Easier to let it go past him and drop on edge of six yard box for a chance. Fernandes, Downes and KWP gave it the beans tonight but let down by teammates making basic errors or shitting the bed yet again. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

We nearly got a home win. We weren't great by any measure.

But we looked better because someone had an epiphany of putting players broadly into their favoured positions. It's a masterstroke, and if only we had the talent at the club to have given that a go earlier on.

A similar genius might also start realising our tall forward, who is good in the air, might benefit from more deliveries like the one that gave us our goal. It was a good goal, but there's also been opportunities we've had to be implementing it for ages.

We seemed to want to progressively weaken our side, the longer the game went on. Sule and TP were out the side for ages, and perhaps we're suffering for that now. Downes, who was on a yellow, was out for off field reasons, so also was subbed.

Taking off Downes and Les removed our midfield. TP going off late on, removed our physical outlet. Dibling has played a lot of minutes, and is just not the same under IJ.

Had they been able to last the course, and IJ not weakened us more with the other subs, we could well have held on. But we invited more pressure instead. The clearance for their goal wasn't a good one. That sent our defense out, leaving plenty of gaps, when a similar ball came right back in. We vacated all the space to try and make up for the first error.

So better, but from such a self inflicted low bar.

[dsrdorset]

So near....yet so far... How many late goals have we conceded now ffs?? The players are not fit. 

 

I really thought we had done enough tonight, but alas, it wasn't to be. 

 

There were a lot of positives to take, so it's not the usual doom & gloom. But THB is no where near a Prem defender, NO WHERE NEAR. Dibling & Archer also completely ineffective from the bench. The subs ruined us, again...

 

On to the next one...

[Eric The Red]

Not sure I understand the criticism of the subs. Les, Manning and TP were obviously injuries/knocks. Even Downes (on a yellow card) was not moving well before he came off. Dibling for Sulemana should have been ok, but I would agree he was very disappointing

[Mixedkebab]

Absolute scum pricks, had it in the palm of their hands but too weak to see it out.

the likes of Dibling are a disgrace to the city. Been going since early 80s and never been so ashamed of supporting this wanky club

fuck off saints you pathetic cunts, disgusting how these maggots get away with taking the piss out of the locals.

This bunch of freaks who run the club and play for it are the biggest disgrace to the city in history, whether they pass 11 points or not, every cunt on here needs to remember that. 
Remember every gimpy name who played for this pathetic shithouse team

[Whitey Grandad]

The substitutions destroyed any cohesion that we had and we ended the game with a group of players and not a team.

Only a fuckwit fucks with it.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, HarvSFC said:

Fun stat - With Harwood-Bellis, Bednarek, Stephens, Walker-Peters, Manning, Bree, Wood, Sugawara, Wellington and Bella-Kotchap , we started the match with more defenders in the match squad than we had points.

Hate to break it to you, but that will have been a fairly common appearance this season...

[Maggie May]

The most frustrating thing for me is by winning last night, we would’ve been within five points of Leicester. This side should also be remembered as one of the Premier League’s worst ever teams. They’re only flattered by how bad we are.

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

8 hours ago, Ekelund said:

It’s the odd 45 like this that shows this lot shouldn’t be the worst saints team in prem history, never mind the rest. I’d take Manning over Simon Charlton for example. Thankfully I grew up on Le Tiss.

So poorly managed throughout the season it’s untrue.

Save Rambo 👏

 

 

And I grew up in the McMenemy years....specifically Mike Channon. That team were proud to wear our stripes

[Pamplemousse]

Well at least we didn't lose. Psychologically conceding a last minute goal may hurt but hopefully when they focus on Sunday the players can recognise they played well, fought hard and will get another couple of wins or so with the same level of performance.

Palace were utterly terrible, amazing really because they played so well at Fulham at the weekend, we did (for the most part) to completely stifle their attacking threat.

We just needed a second goal which we didn't really push for in the second half.

[bangkoksaint]

Our secret weapon to getting over the ‘we weren’t the worst PL team ever’ line is that teams now just rock up up to play us knowing how utterly garbage we are and that winning is a formality. Such arrogance will work in our favour and I’m confident we can go full out for 2 more points!

[Give it to Ron]

We don’t do enough to win games going forward we get in good positions but don’t create anything. The ball then gets recycled and back to Ramsdale but what really pisses me off is we get free kicks ten yards in our half and pass it back get pressed and Ramsdale then boots it aimlessly as under pressure why for a change not pass it forwards from the free kick 30+ yards further up the pitch?

Did we have a shot second half can’t remember Palace keeper doing anything?

Edited 17 hours ago by Give it to Ron

[macca155]

That was much better, got the crowd singing for a while. Have to take the positives where you can.

A win would have been great, but not losing was a pleasant surprise.

Players put a shift in and there were some lovely moves that released players. Good to see.

I thought Stephens did ok but he really doesn't like playing in a back 5, you can see that. THB was equally uncomfortable and was more frequently out of position.

For me the stupid 5 at the back strategy is an arse. Just leaves a hole in midfield and the forwards (such as they are) isolated.

The subs killed the game for Saints, as usual. That's down to Juric, I'm really not a fan. Seeing Edwards playing defensive midfield at QPR is really pissing me off

Dibling needs a spell in the U21s.promote other youngsters.

MOTM for me was Onuachu. Really put himself about and caused them problems.

we survive a bit longer.

[Football Special]

7 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

We nearly got a home win. We weren't great by any measure.

But we looked better because someone had an epiphany of putting players broadly into their favoured positions. It's a masterstroke, and if only we had the talent at the club to have given that a go earlier on.

A similar genius might also start realising our tall forward, who is good in the air, might benefit from more deliveries like the one that gave us our goal. It was a good goal, but there's also been opportunities we've had to be implementing it for ages.

We seemed to want to progressively weaken our side, the longer the game went on. Sule and TP were out the side for ages, and perhaps we're suffering for that now. Downes, who was on a yellow, was out for off field reasons, so also was subbed.

Taking off Downes and Les removed our midfield. TP going off late on, removed our physical outlet. Dibling has played a lot of minutes, and is just not the same under IJ.

Had they been able to last the course, and IJ not weakened us more with the other subs, we could well have held on. But we invited more pressure instead. The clearance for their goal wasn't a good one. That sent our defense out, leaving plenty of gaps, when a similar ball came right back in. We vacated all the space to try and make up for the first error.

So better, but from such a self inflicted low bar.

At the time I thought it made sense to take Downes off, avoid a red, but turns out his yellow gets him a 2 match ban anyway so should have just risked it 

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, bangkoksaint said:

Our secret weapon to getting over the ‘we weren’t the worst PL team ever’ line is that teams now just rock up up to play us knowing how utterly garbage we are and that winning is a formality. Such arrogance will work in our favour and I’m confident we can go full out for 2 more points!

The West Ham, Leicester, Fulham run of games is our best shot of getting a couple of points. The last 3 games after that are pretty much write offs. 

[Charlie Wayman]

9 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

 

Shit substitutions that handed them the midfield.

Nutshell. We don't have good enough back-ups in midfield. Nothing Juric can do aboiut that, the midfield lads were exhausted after an heroic effort

[Sarnia Cherie]

10 hours ago, Football Special said:

This is true, looked like he was asking to come off, as was Sulemana 

Asking to come off???  He is a professional footballer earning thousands a week and has just had 10 days without a match and cannot manage 90+ minutes of football?  We have the most unfit team in the Premier League and that has certainly not helped us this season. I hope we start next season with a John Eustace type manager who will get the players we have left into a cohesive unit with a winning mentality and fitness to match.

[goodymatt]

Thought our limited team (starting 11) gave everything to try and win last night. Other than the players that were cramping up/had knocks, I wouldn’t have touched the team. They were fighting to get the monkey off their back and players like Dibling just came on with zero interest. Welington came on with the right mentality tbf.

In truth, it was really just down to THB making 2 poor clearances, which for the second meant he was out of position. That left Stephens in no man’s land trying to mark both his and THB’s player. Ramsdale could maybe keep it out but like with our Onuachu goal, they often creep in.

We can add this to the list of games where we really should have got more points from. 25 points lost from winning positions tells the story.

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

At the time I thought it made sense to take Downes off, avoid a red, but turns out his yellow gets him a 2 match ban anyway so should have just risked it 

When he booked i expected him to come off. Taking both him off after Les had already been subbed was odd.

[Midfield_General]

Last night wasn't about lack of effort, it was about lack of composure and basic ability, and making tactical decisions that made us worse. When you have a poor coach managing poor players, that's what happens unfortunately. 

Also, was it me or did Sugawara come on playing left wing, ahead of Welington? I thought that was what it looked like but the resolution on my stream wasn't great and it was hard to tell.  

[Give it to Ron]

Last night felt like first time this season one of our midfield actually flew into tackles - well done Downes .

Sorry post to make but it’s how I feel about this team.

[OldNick]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The substitutions destroyed any cohesion that we had and we ended the game with a group of players and not a team.

Only a fuckwit fucks with it.

Well to be fair, Les and TP were unable to continue. Fans believe that we had a 100m player to bring on for Sully ( well my valuation of 20m looks over the top after last night)

TP limping off was crucial and Flynn going off as well. Juric said Flynn was cramping and so had to take him off. It is typical of our season that when we were doing well the main players who helped in that had to be replaced by dross.

KWP had his best game for ages and as usual MF was briliant. Bednarek apart from the first minute did well. 

[OldNick]

12 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

Absolute daylight robbery that Palace got anything from that.

I dont agree, they hit the br in the first couple of minutes, Ramsdale made a worldy, EZE went to the wrong side when he should have scored and Nketiah's shot looked as it was going in but went over. All in all it was a fair point but we feel we should have won due to us playing the best we have for a long time 

[Whitey Grandad]

50 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Last night wasn't about lack of effort, it was about lack of composure and basic ability, and making tactical decisions that made us worse. When you have a poor coach managing poor players, that's what happens unfortunately. 

Also, was it me or did Sugawara come on playing left wing, ahead of Welington? I thought that was what it looked like but the resolution on my stream wasn't great and it was hard to tell.  

Yes, Sugawara went out on the left wing where he could do no damage. A handball out there doesn’t give away a penalty.

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Well to be fair, Les and TP were unable to continue. Fans believe that we had a 100m player to bring on for Sully ( well my valuation of 20m looks over the top after last night)

TP limping off was crucial and Flynn going off as well. Juric said Flynn was cramping and so had to take him off. It is typical of our season that when we were doing well the main players who helped in that had to be replaced by dross.

KWP had his best game for ages and as usual MF was briliant. Bednarek apart from the first minute did well. 

The problem was the selection for the bench. Almost all defenders. Even Ryan Fraser would have done a good job.

[OldNick]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

The problem was the selection for the bench. Almost all defenders. Even Ryan Fraser would have done a good job.

Who else is there who is isnt injured? Ryan Frazer is a difficult one, he was so close to RM that perhaps hes sulking and his appearances this seaon (not many I accept) he has not made any impact. Perhaps Lallana may have been a calming influence at the end, I grant you that

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

Who else is there who is isnt injured? Ryan Frazer is a difficult one, he was so close to RM that perhaps hes sulking and his appearances this seaon (not many I accept) he has not made any impact. Perhaps Lallana may have been a calming influence at the end, I grant you that

I agree, not an easy choice, but five substitutions (for each side) is going to disrupt any team.

[austsaint]

11 hours ago, ant said:

That was a golden chance to stumble over the lowest possible bar.

But of course we spurned it. This is one of the most gutless 'top' level sides in history.

Gutless?   Maybe you’re right but last night for 91 minutes and 17 seconds I thought we played some good Football and most players were giving their all, even if at times, that all isn’t quite good enough.   You could argue that Wellington for Manning might have been the better choice, but otherwise this was as close to our best side playing in their best positions we’ve seen for ages.   Many have argued that Downes and Ugochuku are our best holding midfield combination, and they proved it last night.  I suppose Ugochuku goes back to Chelsea, but he and Downes in the Championship would be a massive step towards an immediate return.    Fernandes and KWP were both outstanding last night.   Christ, Fernandes is a rolled gold gem!    If by some miracle we keep him next season and add some quality to the squad, I’m confident an automatic return is a good prospect.    KWP, a player who is certain to leave and take his rightful place in another Prem lineup gave us at least one last reminder of his class.     To see him busting a gut and creating so many attacking opportunities gave lie to some people’s suspicions that he was coasting toward the summer.

Onuacho has his limitations.  Sometimes his feet don’t seem to keep up with the rest of his body, but he has a great first touch; holds the ball up and offloads well; is a good header of the ball and if he could replace the scuff with a cleaner struck shot, he would be a real asset next season if he stays.   Ramsdale was outstanding - that save to his left from Mateta was as pure as goalkeeping gets.  It’s been a pleasure to watch him this season and he will leave with most people’s admiration.

A great shame we didn’t get past Derby’s points tally last night.   It will happen though, and the performance was the most encouraging thing we’ve seen from Saints since the West Ham game.  Not that should save Juric’s job.   His card should have been marked by now.

[OldNick]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I agree, not an easy choice, but five substitutions (for each side) is going to disrupt any team.

Yep I think we all agree on hat, but when the players are going down cramping or indicating they have it what can you do? Sad that TP never can play the full game, always gets cramp or limps off near the end. I believe had he made the whole game we may well of held on as we lost so much when he went off

[Oldandtired]

I enjoyed last night despite that ‘we wuz robbed’ feeling at the end ( although tbh we weren’t really, they might have had that feeling too thanks to the bar [that would have been some goal btw] and a Ramsdale super save).

Positives were the graft that they all put in until the subs…I have to single out KWP here, whatever his limitations he worked his butt off last night. Also I started to get a glimpse of the player Big Les could become, he certainly gave it a go.

Cons were TD.. I almost think we might see him here next season…surely no one would want to buy a seemingly petulant youngster who can’t be arsed anymore…especially at the stupid money Saints reportedly want for him. And Ramsdale.. yes a worldie save, but should he have saved their goal? The question is there just as it has been for a few of the goals he’s let in lately. A few others but on the whole much more enjoyable than other games of late.

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Oldandtired