Best hard-working but technically poor forward?

[Dusic]

Of recent times Shano and Brett Ormerod stand out. Looked for one purple patch like SL had cracked out but lets face it, you were more suprised when he scored than missed. Expert at winning cheap free kicks though 

Both combined well with more accomplished players which was basically their job.

Other shouts?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

32 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Of recent times Shano and Brett Ormerod stand out. Looked for one purple patch like SL had cracked out but lets face it, you were more suprised when he scored than missed. Expert at winning cheap free kicks though 

Both combined well with more accomplished players which was basically their job.

Other shouts?

Micky Evans. But loved him just for the sideburns. 

[tdmickey3]

Neil Shipperley

[so22saint]

23 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Micky Evans. But loved him just for the sideburns. 

and his end of season goals where premier league defenders didn’t seem to understand his “style” at all.

following season they did 🤣

I can remember this forum saying Pelle and Beattie (ok, the predecessor of this forum, Saintslist and The Ugly) were of this ilk 

[S-Clarke]

Che Adams? Worked very well with Ings for that period, but on his own it did show up his technical issues. (although still streets ahead of what we have today).

[Yorkshire Saint]

Paul Rideout or Colin Clarke in many regards. Rideout was a great foil for the Wallace, LeTiss etc. 

Honourable mention for Graham Baker 😅

Edited Wednesday at 13:47 by Yorkshire Saint

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Che Adams? Worked very well with Ings for that period, but on his own it did show up his technical issues. (although still streets ahead of what we have today).

I'd disagree with that. He was a good footballer but not a good finisher. His touch, control, strength were very good, he could certainly striker a ball too but the problem was his finishes wasn't great. Long and Ormerod on the other were quick, hard working but pretty limited footballers. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Loved Shane Long - he was pivotal in getting the best out of Ings and Mane when they were here.

Peak SL would be our best attacked now by a mile.

[spyinthesky]

Ian Dowie?

[Midfield_General]

5 hours ago, Yorkshire Saint said:

Paul Rideout or Colin Clarke in many regards. Rideout was a great foil for the Wallace, LeTiss etc. 

Honourable mention for Graham Baker 😅

Very harsh on Rideout, that. He got 19 goals in 73 games for us which is better than 1 every 4 games. At his peak he banged them in everywhere he went. Scored 38 in 95 for Swindon which is one every 2.5 games, 19 in 54 for Villa is one every 2.8 games, 23 in 99 for Bari is one in 4.3. He was a good player and streets ahead of anyone we've had in recent years since Ings. 

Colin Clarke also scored 36 in 82 for us in the top division which is one every 2.27 games. What we wouldn't give now for someone as prolific as that at this level. 

Baker I'll give you  

Edited Wednesday at 19:45 by Midfield_General

[Gloucester Saint]

Every single player mentioned on this thread is far better than the club has available at the weekend.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Very harsh on Rideout, that. He got 19 goals in 73 games for us which is better than 1 every 4 games. At his peak he banged them in everywhere he went. Scored 38 in 95 for Swindon which is one every 2.5 games, 19 in 54 for Villa is one every 2.8 games, 23 in 99 for Bari is one in 4.3. He was a good player and streets ahead of anyone we've had in recent years since Ings. 

Colin Clarke also scored 36 in 82 for us in the top division which is one every 2.27 games. What we wouldn't give now for someone as prolific as that at this level. 

Baker I'll give you  

Not sure that is harsh on Rideout as I think he was - in his time with us - regarded as a bit of a workhorse and a supporting role. Mind you that was in a front four with Wallace, Shearer, and MLT. 
 

At the time many thought he lacked the goals, although certainly worked well with the other three and was  skilful. 

 

[Cabrone]

Gordon Watson, didn't think he was that bad TBH.

[kitch]

Shane Long walks this IMO.

[Stud mark of doom]

Lee Barnard springs to mind

Fucking hard

Wanted by Scotland Yard

Somewhat limitard. 

 

 

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Stud mark of doom said:

Lee Barnard springs to mind

Fucking hard

Wanted by Scotland Yard

Somewhat limitard. 

 

 

Not for the level we were at. Cracking finisher. 

[Dusic]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Not for the level we were at. Cracking finisher. 

Not as good a finisher though as David Connolly - what a player he was when fit.

On the other side you have Jonno Quick. Just terrible.

[Midfield_General]

Connolly was absolute class at the level we were at then. Lovely player. 

Lambert, Barnard, Connolly and Papa Waigo with Puncheon and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Those attacking options were quality for L1, I loved that side. 

[miserableoldgit]

Bobby Stokes? Loved him  (not just for the 76 Cup Final) but I wouldn't say that he was blessed with silky skills.

[OldNick]

It has to be Ormorod, he helped Beats so much

[lumuah]

Ormorod was the first name I thought of, but also have to give a mention to Gordon Hobson

[Turkish]

Whilst we're talking about players who are limited technically it's also worth remember that everyone of these has technique that most of us can only dream of. 

As some as you will know i am involved in youth football, my son has attended a futsal training sessions since he was 8 where all the focus is on technique, some of the kids even at at 11,12, can do stuff with a ball which you're amazed at skills and touches with all parts of the foot, laces, inside, outside, control it dead with their first touch at the sky every time and these kids aren't even in academies.  They have a program they work through with individual challenges and when they finish the highest level it the head coach says they will have a world class first touch and technique. The critics say it's all just doing keep ups but as the coaches will tell you a bricklayers becomes a good bricklayer because they spend 5 years learning the trade laying bricks everyday. Same with football, you get good at it by getting meaning full reps in over and over again, the boring stuff some dont want to do after a while separates the good from the very good.

The coaches have all completed it and are brilliant technical players but "only" playing at a good non league standard (conference north level) there are some current professionals playing in all 4 leagues that have completed it too but that just shows how good these technically poor players actually are.

[SotonianWill]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Whilst we're talking about players who are limited technically it's also worth remember that everyone of these has technique that most of us can only dream of. 

As some as you will know i am involved in youth football, my son has attended a futsal training sessions since he was 8 where all the focus is on technique, some of the kids even at at 11,12, can do stuff with a ball which you're amazed at skills and touches with all parts of the foot, laces, inside, outside, control it dead with their first touch at the sky every time and these kids aren't even in academies.  They have a program they work through with individual challenges and when they finish the highest level it the head coach says they will have a world class first touch and technique. The critics say it's all just doing keep ups but as the coaches will tell you a bricklayers becomes a good bricklayer because they spend 5 years learning the trade laying bricks everyday. Same with football, you get good at it by getting meaning full reps in over and over again, the boring stuff some dont want to do after a while separates the good from the very good.

The coaches have all completed it and are brilliant technical players but "only" playing at a good non league standard (conference north level) there are some current professionals playing in all 4 leagues that have completed it too but that just shows how good these technically poor players actually are.

There must be an element of being around and playing with established good players also. There’s surely no coincidence that many sons of professional footballers are fairly decent (even semi pro level is above the average) - I note Paul Skate Merson’s son scored a good technical goal the other week. 

 

There’s long hours of repetition, but if you’re playing with those who are already skilled (and therefore highly paced), this is bound to accelerate your ability. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

There must be an element of being around and playing with established good players also. There’s surely no coincidence that many sons of professional footballers are fairly decent (even semi pro level is above the average) - I note Paul Skate Merson’s son scored a good technical goal the other week. 

 

There’s long hours of repetition, but if you’re playing with those who are already skilled (and therefore highly paced), this is bound to accelerate your ability. 

 

Perhaps or could also highlight how far out of your depth you are as you never get a kick. Technique, match intelligence, skill can all be taught and learnt IMO. It has to start when their young though, Arsne Wenger ones said if you get to 14 and you have no technical ability forget it you will never play at a good level.  It also does come down to practice and reps. Kids dont want to practice technique, they want to be playing matches and shooting, a lot of them get bored with the futsal program we do because it's lots and lots of reps, they do it for a year improve loads then quit the very thing that got them better in the first place because they and sometimes their parents cant see what good it's doing for them and think it's boring. Some of the girls are technically better than the boys at the ages we're at and it's no coincidence that the best technical player in our group is a girl and she practises every night. Her dad told me he had to put a light on the driveway during winter as whatever the weather shes out there, her dad isn't interested in football at all he's a rugby man. 

Some of the critics of the Futsal scheme we do use the "you'd never do that in a match" line no you wouldn't but if you can control a ball 50 times in a row with the outside of your weaker foot doing keep ups, then you'll be able to do it 2-3 times you need during a match and give you that advantage over the other players who cant do it, not mention what it's doing for muscle memory, balance, co-ordination and so on. 

it's a fact that if you're born in the first quarter of a school year your chances of being picked up by a team are significantly higher than if you're born later in the year. I assume because at the ages of 6,7 and 8 when kids are being picked up these days 6 months is a big difference at that age. Then you're given better coaching, more development than kids who might only be a few months younger.

Connections is a big factor too. My son is friends with a current premier league players youngest brother, no surprises he's been scouted despite not really standing out right now. Hes also at school with two kids who are twins, their grandad is an ex-pro Premier league player and Scotland international and they're now at in the academies of clubs he played at, different ones too which must be a logistical nightmare for the parents. One of them is outstanding, if you were going to put your money on anyone making it it'll be him, the other one whilst decent again doesn't really stand out at the moment but i guess clubs are prepared to take the risk on him rather than a complete unknown. 

Then there is two other issues, parents and size and IMO the two go hand in hand. Big kids who aren't as good still get the nod over smaller kids at the moment and parents who dont really understand what's going on and wonder why their kid who is physically an early bloomer so often twice the size of other kids, but not a good footballer just dont see it. They dont realise they might look great now because they 11 but look 15 and can bully their way through match because they're currently bigger, stronger and faster but come the time they're 15 and everyone else is the same size they'll be miles behind because they still cant kick a ball properly. 

Edited Thursday at 16:02 by Turkish

[warsash saint]

No mention of Paul Moody??

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

No mention of Paul Moody??

With good reason.

He was the player whom Branfoot was going to use to replace MLT just as he scored the first of those unforgettable two goals against Newcastle.

[warsash saint]

31 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

With good reason.

He was the player whom Branfoot was going to use to replace MLT just as he scored the first of those unforgettable two goals against Newcastle.

Sorry i forgot the 'winky' emoji!

[benjii]

On 12/03/2025 at 16:32, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Micky Evans. But loved him just for the sideburns. 

Micky Evans is the correct answer. 

Premier League player of the month once.

[Whitey Grandad]

31 minutes ago, benjii said:

Micky Evans is the correct answer. 

Premier League player of the month once.

I was at Forest when he scored. Twice, wasn’t it?

[Zorba]

Chicken George

[Gloucester Saint]

On 13/03/2025 at 17:11, Whitey Grandad said:

I was at Forest when he scored. Twice, wasn’t it?

Collided with the goalpost scoring v West Ham as well didn’t he?

[so22saint]

Yep, the utter commitment of a man taking his chance unexpectedly at the top level!

33 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Collided with the goalpost scoring v West Ham as well didn’t he?

 

[revolution saint]

Probably Dowie for me too although would have been Mickey Evan’s if he’d been with us longer.

Almost feels like an oxymoron though trying to pick your best “worst” player 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Probably Dowie for me too although would have been Mickey Evan’s if he’d been with us longer.

Almost feels like an oxymoron though trying to pick your best “worst” player 

Dowie wasn’t that bad technically, just zero pace. The ‘Deadly Dixon, Donkey Dowie’ chants soon switched around…

[revolution saint]

13 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Dowie wasn’t that bad technically, just zero pace. The ‘Deadly Dixon, Donkey Dowie’ chants soon switched around…

Nah, Dowie was good in the air but didn't really have anything else.  if we're including Ormerod in this list then technically Dowie was worse.

[Saint_clark]

By the way, calling Ormerod recent is a bit of a stretch, his last appearance was nearly 20 years ago. Depressing.