Team for the championship - likely exits, and what will be required for promotion and staying up

Gloucester Saint · March 5

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Didn't want to play for us I think January is pretty harsh. Maybe the club would have preferred he stay where he is for his development? Maybe he didn't feel ready to play in a rubbish team in the prem yet?

Arguably beneficial to stay with the incoming manager/approach as well as avoiding the shitshow for 6 months.

Saint86 · March 5

51 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yeah I was being silly because of the the same poster previously getting upset over Downes/Martin and Charles making clear he preferred to be at Wednesday in January.

Eh? I wanted Charles recalled previously because at the time relegation wasn't assured, Lesley had also been rubbish up to that point, and I thought Charles could do a job for us. I was disappointed he was briefly in line to be sold in january as well (given we could certainly do a job for us in the champ). Equally I don't have an issue with him staying there, playing regularly, and avoiding this car crash. Curious as to which part of that you disagree with.

If I recall, I think you were a huge ralph out advocate at one point - but either way, how do you feel about his #2 potentially coming back in?

The situation with downes and Martin is entirely different as well... He absolutely was one of Martin's golden boys, wanted out once Martin went, and had a sulk and refused to play. Would be a weird take to not be pissed off with his attitude 🤔

Edited March 5 by Saint86

Fabrice29 · March 5

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Eh? I wanted Charles recalled previously because at the time relegation wasn't assured, Lesley had also been rubbish up to that point, and I thought Charles could do a job for us. I was disappointed he was briefly in line to be sold in january as well (given we could certainly do a job for us in the champ). Equally I don't have an issue with him staying there, playing regularly, and avoiding this car crash. Curious as to which part of that you disagree with.

If I recall, I think you were a huge ralph out advocate at one point - but either way, how do you feel about his #2 potentially coming back in?

The situation with downes and Martin is entirely different as well... He absolutely was one of Martin's golden boys, wanted out once Martin went, and had a sulk and refused to play. Would be a weird take to not be pissed off with his attitude 🤔

I have no issues with what has happened with Charles. I was merely pointing out you were annoyed at Downes wanting to play for his mate which is a just a theory and then I was being silly pointing out Charles might want to play for his mate and just wondering if you would remain consistent.

As for Ralph, I think I was probably up for him leaving by the end. I’m not a big fan of the style of football that he and Rohl advocate but that’s subjective and I can see the plusses and very happy to get behind it, for reasons I’ve explained in the Juric thread.

Forester · March 5

I assume Rambo, KWP, THB, Fernandes and Dibbling all get moves to Premier League clubs. It may be that one or two don’t, which is great, but that is my assumption.

What I think many of our fans don’t recognise is that every one of the following would all be picked up by top six championship sides, every one, a total of 19 players:

McCarthy, Bree, Sugawara, Stephens, Edwards, Wood, Bednarek, ABK, Manning, Downes, Smallbone, Aribo, Charles, Kamaldeen, Edozie, Tall Paul, BBD, Armstrong and Archer

In addition there are others who could still be valuable squad players for the season, fitness permitting, such as Baz, Taylor, Larios, Fraser and Stewart. Clearly you cannot rely on these five as core players.

I think our main aim should be to retain as many as we can, and minimise the number of purchases we need but spend it on real quality. A goal scoring winger, another holding midfielder and another number ten would be on my list. Then if we go back up the majority need to go, for reasons vividly played out this season.

Suhari · March 5

46 minutes ago, Forester said:

I assume Rambo, KWP, THB, Fernandes and Dibbling all get moves to Premier League clubs. It may be that one or two don’t, which is great, but that is my assumption.

What I think many of our fans don’t recognise is that every one of the following would all be picked up by top six championship sides, every one, a total of 19 players:

McCarthy, Bree, Sugawara, Stephens, Edwards, Wood, Bednarek, ABK, Manning, Downes, Smallbone, Aribo, Charles, Kamaldeen, Edozie, Tall Paul, BBD, Armstrong and Archer

In addition there are others who could still be valuable squad players for the season, fitness permitting, such as Baz, Taylor, Larios, Fraser and Stewart. Clearly you cannot rely on these five as core players.

I think our main aim should be to retain as many as we can, and minimise the number of purchases we need but spend it on real quality. A goal scoring winger, another holding midfielder and another number ten would be on my list. Then if we go back up the majority need to go, for reasons vividly played out this season.

We'll have a pretty strong team for the Championship, from an ability point of view. My question is how many have the mindset we need? The clubs been a shitfest for a while and th is must have impacted morale, motivation etc. We'll surely see some turnover just to get some new faces/fresh minds onto the bus.

Football Special · March 5

5 hours ago, Saint86 said:

With the news that Rohl seems to be incoming, i wonder what it will mean for the team in the championship next year.

I haven't really been following them in detail this season - i.e. typical formation and key players? Does anyone have much insight on them? I know Ralph played the 4-2-2-2 high press, are Wednesday in a similar muold? Do we think its likely we'll see Charles and Downes (if he sticks around) as our 2 CMs/CDMs?

This was quite insightful in the Echo

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/opinion/24980768.rohl-southamptons-top-target-new-manager/

Matthew Le God · March 5

kitch · March 6

21 hours ago, Suhari said:

We'll have a pretty strong team for the Championship, from an ability point of view. My question is how many have the mindset we need? The clubs been a shitfest for a while and th is must have impacted morale, motivation etc. We'll surely see some turnover just to get some new faces/fresh minds onto the bus.

Agreed. What we have is a squad full of losers. That's not a personalilty-based observation, it's history. So many of these players have been part of a depressing team at SFC for so long, I don't think they'll ever recover here. A move away for the likes of McCarthy, Bednarek, Stephens, Smallbone...even KWP, it'd do them as much good as it does us. We genuinely need a clearout. Last season papered over the cracks - this is a mentally weak team.

There aren't many I'd retain, given the choice. I realise this will not be the case, and the club will see most of the existing squad as strong options in the Champ, and sure enough many of them could go on to another Champ team and walk into it, but here, with us...I don't see it.

Bednarek is a prime example. Two relegations, two 9-0 defeats (I think?), god knows how many own goals and goals conceded while he's played; Just knock it on the head. Let him move, for his sake as much as ours. He joined for £5m as a reserve and somehow has ended up being first choice, not because he's got better but because the squad has got worse.
Even if we managed to scrape by next season and limp back into the PL, it'd just be rinse & repeat of this season. We need a hard reset, the club's been rotten for years now. It's a shame because it was on a perfect trajectory up until Koeman got poached.

disconnect · March 6

22 hours ago, Forester said:

I assume Rambo, KWP, THB, Fernandes and Dibbling all get moves to Premier League clubs. It may be that one or two don’t, which is great, but that is my assumption.

What I think many of our fans don’t recognise is that every one of the following would all be picked up by top six championship sides, every one, a total of 19 players:

McCarthy, Bree, Sugawara, Stephens, Edwards, Wood, Bednarek, ABK, Manning, Downes, Smallbone, Aribo, Charles, Kamaldeen, Edozie, Tall Paul, BBD, Armstrong and Archer

In addition there are others who could still be valuable squad players for the season, fitness permitting, such as Baz, Taylor, Larios, Fraser and Stewart. Clearly you cannot rely on these five as core players.

I think our main aim should be to retain as many as we can, and minimise the number of purchases we need but spend it on real quality. A goal scoring winger, another holding midfielder and another number ten would be on my list. Then if we go back up the majority need to go, for reasons vividly played out this season.

I'm not sure anyone's giving us serious money for these guys. You'd take them on a free, but the only one highlighted who might get some money from is Smallbone and possibly Wood (who has looked awful as often has he's looked good). I'd be pretty confident that Sugawara, Bednarek, Downes, Charles, Sulemana and Archer would comfortably get into most of the top 6 starting 11s.

notnowcato · March 6

Whatever squad we go with I'd rather we spend fuck all and no THB style deals - no offence to THB - it just starts to limit your options. The squad needs some serious trimming, any gaps can be filled by loans.

Should we gain promotion then we need to do a Forest, a complete clear out and buy a new squad that can compete for 17th spot.

Saint Fan CaM · March 7

19 hours ago, kitch said:

Agreed. What we have is a squad full of losers. That's not a personalilty-based observation, it's history. So many of these players have been part of a depressing team at SFC for so long, I don't think they'll ever recover here. A move away for the likes of McCarthy, Bednarek, Stephens, Smallbone...even KWP, it'd do them as much good as it does us. We genuinely need a clearout. Last season papered over the cracks - this is a mentally weak team.

There aren't many I'd retain, given the choice. I realise this will not be the case, and the club will see most of the existing squad as strong options in the Champ, and sure enough many of them could go on to another Champ team and walk into it, but here, with us...I don't see it.

Bednarek is a prime example. Two relegations, two 9-0 defeats (I think?), god knows how many own goals and goals conceded while he's played; Just knock it on the head. Let him move, for his sake as much as ours. He joined for £5m as a reserve and somehow has ended up being first choice, not because he's got better but because the squad has got worse.
Even if we managed to scrape by next season and limp back into the PL, it'd just be rinse & repeat of this season. We need a hard reset, the club's been rotten for years now. It's a shame because it was on a perfect trajectory up until Koeman got poached.

110%! 👍👌🤞

Holmes_and_Watson · March 7

20 hours ago, kitch said:

Agreed. What we have is a squad full of losers. That's not a personalilty-based observation, it's history. So many of these players have been part of a depressing team at SFC for so long, I don't think they'll ever recover here. A move away for the likes of McCarthy, Bednarek, Stephens, Smallbone...even KWP, it'd do them as much good as it does us. We genuinely need a clearout. Last season papered over the cracks - this is a mentally weak team.

There aren't many I'd retain, given the choice. I realise this will not be the case, and the club will see most of the existing squad as strong options in the Champ, and sure enough many of them could go on to another Champ team and walk into it, but here, with us...I don't see it.

Bednarek is a prime example. Two relegations, two 9-0 defeats (I think?), god knows how many own goals and goals conceded while he's played; Just knock it on the head. Let him move, for his sake as much as ours. He joined for £5m as a reserve and somehow has ended up being first choice, not because he's got better but because the squad has got worse.
Even if we managed to scrape by next season and limp back into the PL, it'd just be rinse & repeat of this season. We need a hard reset, the club's been rotten for years now. It's a shame because it was on a perfect trajectory up until Koeman got poached.

On their contracts, it's an opportunity to get deals for them too. KWP going at the end of this season. Most of the other going into the last year (and interest in Will). A Jan offer was made for Bednarek. His value will be lower in the summer, so another offer could see him go too.

I don't mind some of them in the Championship, but offers or loans would be fine and free up places for others.

redkeith · March 7

Wharton and Roberts show that there is some talent in the championship if you look hard enough.

I like the look of Ivanovic at Millwall, a mobile centre forward who scores goals too. Very similar to Delap but scores a few from distance too.

If Plymouth go down, I would buy either of their new Centre backs. Both look to attack the ball at all times and they would add a bit of grit to our back line. They might not be good enough for the PL, but neither were Jos Hoilberg and Mike Pickering.

We will probably need some new No 10 /Wide players , as we would likely have only Edozie and Fraser left.

Defensive Central Midfield also needs a boost, as we currently have no back up for Downes and Charles.

I would have us something like

New Keeper Res McCarthy, Bazunu

Sugawara Edwards Plymouth Wellington Wood, Bree, Stephens, French Lad, Manning

Downes Charles New, Smallbone , WitMarsh

New Robinson, new

Edozie Ivanovic Archer AA,Fraser , New , Ballard

I fully expect Aribo, Dibbling , Fernandes, Ramsdale , Bednarek THB and Diaz to go. Keeping Sully or Tall Paul would be a bonus. I would also like to see the youngters get more minutes than we gave Dibbling SAA and Meghoma last time.

macca155 · March 7

7 hours ago, redkeith said:

Wharton and Roberts show that there is some talent in the championship if you look hard enough.

I like the look of Ivanovic at Millwall, a mobile centre forward who scores goals too. Very similar to Delap but scores a few from distance too.

If Plymouth go down, I would buy either of their new Centre backs. Both look to attack the ball at all times and they would add a bit of grit to our back line. They might not be good enough for the PL, but neither were Jos Hoilberg and Mike Pickering.

We will probably need some new No 10 /Wide players , as we would likely have only Edozie and Fraser left.

Defensive Central Midfield also needs a boost, as we currently have no back up for Downes and Charles.

I would have us something like

New Keeper Res McCarthy, Bazunu

Sugawara Edwards Plymouth Wellington Wood, Bree, Stephens, French Lad, Manning

Downes Charles New, Smallbone , WitMarsh

New Robinson, new

Edozie Ivanovic Archer AA,Fraser , New , Ballard

I fully expect Aribo, Dibbling , Fernandes, Ramsdale , Bednarek THB and Diaz to go. Keeping Sully or Tall Paul would be a bonus. I would also like to see the youngters get more minutes than we gave Dibbling SAA and Meghoma last time.

Agree with most of that although iffy about anyone from Plymouth.

No chance of a new goalkeeper. The club rate Bazunu, like it or not he'll probably be our keeper.

At some point Stewart has to show he can actually play a few games.

Bendarek might stay if no one comes in for him.

Whatever happens, this time they have to play the younger players. No team survives in the PL unless they bring talent up with them.

Matthew Le God · March 8

8 hours ago, macca155 said:

No team survives in the PL unless they bring talent up with them.

Nottingham Forest pretty much signed a new squad after promotion. Something we needed to do last summer.

Edited March 8 by Matthew Le God

macca155 · March 8

8 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nottingham Forest pretty much signed a new squad after promotion. Something we needed to do last summer.

True MLG but they also hadcs points deduction because of it. However clearly an effective tactic.

die Mannyschaft · March 8

On 05/02/2025 at 11:55, Charlie Wayman said:

I am more attuned to your valuations (KWP?) but if we lose all of those players in the summer, we will be in freefall next season through the loss of any sort of continuity. For that reason it is unlikely the club will let more than two or three leave unless their contracts have expired. Sensibly they will only let leave the players that they want to let leave.

Dibling, Fernandes & Sulemana must be the backbone of rebuilding a side that can challenge for the title and fare respectably in the Premier League so if SR are serious about a PL future then they must fight tooth and nail to resist their transfers.

If you and others are right and the team has to be rebuilt from the ground up than finding a way back to the PL will be challenging. In a worst case projection it will be years before we can fight our way back. Juric for one is unlikley to hang around for long if our immediate prospects are poor.

Expect that Ipswich & Leicester will be the sides to beat next season so there is only one promotion place left for us and the three clubs from the top six in the Championship this season who miss out on promotion in May.

I can then see players who are in contract and Saints won't release not bothering to play and end up bench warmers. The other option is large scale loan outs. I really don't see many players to bothered with few months left. For some reason the team is not playing at thier capacity be that championship level or other level.

James G · March 8

On 30/01/2025 at 15:38, Saint86 said:

The January window is obviously something of a damp squid, but it has made me wonder about next season.

Does anyone have a feel for what our wages to turnover ratio is this season? I've seen it reported that the club has sorted out any serious financial concerns re wages and that we've got headroom for next season. I'd like to think that most of our players have relegation clauses re wages as well.

The squad is currently too large regardless and i think everyone will agree it needs thinning, but you'd like to think that even with pretty major cuts to the playing squad we can still can put together a very solid side for the championship next year.

My assumed list of retained players
As a minimum i think we'll be looking at something like the following being retained:

GK - Bazunu, Macca, Lumley

CBS - Two of THB/Bednarek/Stephens, then Woods and Edwards, Sanda potentially.

Full backs - Suga, Bree, Manning, Wellington, Larios

CM - Downes, Smallbone, Shea Charles

Wingers/Attacking mids - Fraser, Edozie, SAA, Lallana i'd guess.

Strikers - Arma and Stewart (I'd like to see us sell him but it isn't going to happen is it 😅😂).

We also potentially have a couple of the Goztepe players to come in - Juan and Matsuki.

Likely exits/sales
I think we'll likely see most of the following moved on / hitting the exit door. I've tried to put indicative numbers against each of them - i'm sure people will have differing views on these but i've given a rounded down figure at end of this post.

Ramsale (£25M), BBD (7M), Archer (£15M) , Onuachu (£7M), Dibling (£50M), Fernandes (£20M), Sulemana (£10-15M), Aribo (£5M), ABK (5M), Taylor (£1M).

What will be required

Looking at the squad from a championship perspective, I think i'd want to see 1-2 good quality additions in the attacking mids/winger positions (rather than quantity), as well as a good quality striker, possibly an improvement at FB/WB as well. I feel that would see us being very competitive for the automatic spots. Loans (with / without options to buy should aid this as well).

And where i say "quality" in the above, these need to be players with the ability/potential to improve / step up into the prem and continue to improve and develop. Similar to what the likes of lallana, Morgan, Puncheon, Jose, Rickie did for us previously - i.e. the recruitment team need to actually going out and identify and buy good quality younger players with an ability level near to a Fernandes (who we signed for 15M euros) this summer.

In terms of looking beyond promotion and building a team that can not only get promotion but survive - this should also be supplemented by strengthening the positions that are currently not good enough for the prem as it stands - i.e., we should be looking for a player who can become a prem standard CM, an upgrade at CB, and someone who will become a prem standard keeper (assuming ramsdale does leave that is).

You'd like to think we'd have a healthy wedge available - The sales outlined above should bring in circa £130-£140M at the end of the day, hopefully wages are in good order, and we've secured parachute payments. It may also require Solak to dip his hands in his pockets a bit to make sure we land on our feet and don't waste what is going to be one of our last chances to get recruitment right.

I think Fernandes might stay

Andy Hill · March 9

Keeping Fernandes is key. Unlikely but possible.

ally_uk · March 10

See we are being linked to Danny Ings

Gloucester Saint · March 10

13 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

See we are being linked to Danny Ings

https://www.hammers.news/transfer-news/good-riddance-as-12-million-west-ham-man-is-reportedly-open-to-joining-his-former-club/

From the player’s end I suspect. Unless BBD is signed by the Blades when they go up, we will have him, AA coming back, Onachu, Sulemana and Stewart, unless we are going to finally enforce retirement on the one striker with a worse injury record than Danny. Danny is washed up at top flight level, could do a good job for a season below that I’m sure, but at least 2 or more need to move on first.

Edited March 10 by Gloucester Saint

Wiggles31 · March 10

On loan maybe or got a reduced fee.

We really need to sign a CF in the summer - a mobile and physical presence. And a physically strong CDM.

We’ve lacked in these areas since Broja and Romeu left. These two signings must be done correctly.

I’m not including the 10 or so other signings we need.

Gloucester Saint · March 10

13 minutes ago, Wiggles31 said:

On loan maybe or got a reduced fee.

We really need to sign a CF in the summer - a mobile and physical presence. And a physically strong CDM.

We’ve lacked in these areas since Broja and Romeu left. These two signings must be done correctly.

I’m not including the 10 or so other signings we need.

Ings is out of contract in the summer https://www.capology.com/player/danny-ings-33808/ and https://www.claretandhugh.info/counting-down-the-days-on-his-west-ham-career-rivals-await-return/

leesaint88 · March 10

On 07/03/2025 at 14:54, redkeith said:

Wharton and Roberts show that there is some talent in the championship if you look hard enough.

I like the look of Ivanovic at Millwall, a mobile centre forward who scores goals too. Very similar to Delap but scores a few from distance too.

If Plymouth go down, I would buy either of their new Centre backs. Both look to attack the ball at all times and they would add a bit of grit to our back line. They might not be good enough for the PL, but neither were Jos Hoilberg and Mike Pickering.

We will probably need some new No 10 /Wide players , as we would likely have only Edozie and Fraser left.

Defensive Central Midfield also needs a boost, as we currently have no back up for Downes and Charles.

I would have us something like

New Keeper Res McCarthy, Bazunu

Sugawara Edwards Plymouth Wellington Wood, Bree, Stephens, French Lad, Manning

Downes Charles New, Smallbone , WitMarsh

New Robinson, new

Edozie Ivanovic Archer AA,Fraser , New , Ballard

I fully expect Aribo, Dibbling , Fernandes, Ramsdale , Bednarek THB and Diaz to go. Keeping Sully or Tall Paul would be a bonus. I would also like to see the youngters get more minutes than we gave Dibbling SAA and Meghoma last time.

I'd let Ballard go personally. I've watched him a few times in League One and he looks miles off it, certainly not good enough for the Championship and probably League Two at best.

Charlie Wayman · March 10

On 06/03/2025 at 15:53, notnowcato said:

Whatever squad we go with I'd rather we spend fuck all and no THB style deals - no offence to THB - it just starts to limit your options. The squad needs some serious trimming, any gaps can be filled by loans.

Should we gain promotion then we need to do a Forest, a complete clear out and buy a new squad that can compete for 17th spot.

Good luck with that!

Charlie Wayman · March 10

4 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

https://www.hammers.news/transfer-news/good-riddance-as-12-million-west-ham-man-is-reportedly-open-to-joining-his-former-club/

From the player’s end I suspect. Unless BBD is signed by the Blades when they go up, we will have him, AA coming back, Onachu, Sulemana and Stewart, unless we are going to finally enforce retirement on the one striker with a worse injury record than Danny. Danny is washed up at top flight level, could do a good job for a season below that I’m sure, but at least 2 or more need to move on first.

Why on earth do people even contemplate bringing Ings back here? For starters he couldn't get away fast enough last time, secondly he's a busted flush and thirdly he comes across as a self centred narcissistic the very last thing you need when trying to rebuild a team for the future.

Edited March 10 by Charlie Wayman

Gloucester Saint · March 10

15 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Why on earth do people even contemplate bringing Ings back here? For starters he couldn't get away fast enough last time, secondly he's a busted flush and thirdly he comes across as a self centred narcissistic the very last thing you need when trying to rebuild a team for the future.

If he hadn’t been successful for us as a younger player first time around, we wouldn’t be discussing him even. He will still want big wages for the Champ and unless the club grow a pair, Ross Stewart has had his towel over the physio’s bed for the striker’s spot since arriving from Sunderland.

Edited March 10 by Gloucester Saint

Saint Fan CaM · March 10

I’m at a loss as to why anyone thinks keeping the majority of the losers in the current 25 man squad would be a good idea. There may well be individually talented players that would do well in the championship, but this squad is not a TEAM…it’s a bunch of misfits forced together by a series of unsuccessful sub-standard managers and management styles. No identity - no guile - few players exhibiting a true ‘footballing brain’ - lack of hunger to create something special. It could be argued that 9 points flatters us!

I think back to Fonte dropping a division to play for us. I think of a lesser Lambert who got his shit together to become one of the most successful CF’s in the top flight with us. I think of even Ward-Prowse running his bollocks off for 90+ minutes for the cause and having an amazing dead ball skill to boot. There are more examples. Spors can create another successful promotion team, but I don’t think he’ll be doing that with the majority of the current squad sadly.

Matthew Le God · March 12

Another two goals for Joe O’Brien-Whitmarsh last night...

ally_uk · March 13

The problem with Saints is the same old story—lack of physicality and a weak mentality under pressure. The moment they’re under the cosh, heads drop, belief fades, and the fight disappears. It’s been their trademark for seasons now.

Take Romeu, for example—a key player we’ve never properly replaced. That no-nonsense, tough-tackling presence is exactly what we’re missing.

Look at some of our midfielders—absolute powder puff. No height, no frame, no presence. If they want to stay, they should be hitting the gym this summer and bulking up.

As for who stays and who goes? I wouldn’t care if we reset the whole lot.

My first priority would be building a solid spine—starting with a couple of hard bastards who can lead, have height, and bring real physical presence to the team.

Aside from that, we need more firepower up top. If we can get Ings on a free, so be it—if he fires us to promotion, who cares? Job done.

Saint86 · Tuesday at 19:56

Revisiting this for where the team is now....

Potential line up next season:

GK = Bazunu (or Ramsdale - if by some miracle we keep him), Lumley and Maca as backups.

RB = new 1st choice, Bree ------- KWP sadly gone, and I would also assume Sugarwara will be sold given there have already been rumours, but if he stays thats adequate for the champ with a non Martin style of football.

LB = Manning and Wellington, Larios -------- Charlie Taylor to leave?

CBs = One of Stephens/Bednarek/THB to remain (the others to leave I would guess), Edwards and Wood, new CB signing, Sanda (squad) ------ ABK will be gone for sure.

CMs = Downes, Shea Charles, Smallbone, Aribo (can see one of smallbone/aribo potentially leaving, but would keep both unless a good deal can be made).

CAMs/Wingers = Edozie, Fraser, hopefully we keep one of Dibling and Fernades for the year, suspect this area needs strengtehing tbh, even with the goztepe loanees --------- Sulemana to surely leave

Strikers - Archer, AA, Onuachu (I would personally keep all 3 of these, unless we can get an upgrade or good money in with which to strengthen) -------- stewart to leave on loan.

Have no idea what the Matsuki / Juan's long term strategy is... so will just leave their names here in limbo land...

In terms of what i would call the safe/definite sales...

Sulemana and one of dibling/Fernandes should hopefully bring in about £50-60M for 2 of them.

Maybe we'll get about £10-15M total for bednarek and ABK? Maybe...

THB would land us £20-25M if anyone actually wants to buy him (i cant see he's impressed enough to warrant the outlay).

£5-8M total for sugawara and taylor?

If we sell him, £25M for ramsdale.

Onuachu we've struggled to shift every window... i would just keep him at this point, far more effective than Che was. Would like to see him played with 2 pacey / clever players running off him.

Edited Tuesday at 19:59 by Saint86

benali-shorts · Tuesday at 20:17

If we have those strikers and that keeper, I think I'm going to top myself.

Matthew Le God · Tuesday at 20:33

14 minutes ago, benali-shorts said:

If we have those strikers, I think I'm going to top myself.

Two of the strikers he listed have been prolific in the Championship, the third likely would be aswell.

Gloucester Saint · Tuesday at 20:36

16 minutes ago, benali-shorts said:

If we have those strikers and that keeper, I think I'm going to top myself.

Wouldn’t go that far but Bazanu in goal isn’t top 6 stuff and without Martinball not much rationale for him to be first choice. Release Lumley if his contract is up, take the hit on Alex as third choice assuming Baz has improved on loan enough to be second choice.

Only AA will be here from the strikers, maybe Archer if the club won’t take a significant loss on the £15m paid, wouldn’t be too devastated if he stayed with a better attitude. Plus Rohl’s style of play would actually suit him better than Martin or Juric. Onachu will have buyers, done alright when had the opportunity.

Gloucester Saint · Tuesday at 20:38

6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Two of the strikers he listed have been prolific in the Championship, the third likely would be aswell.

Archer with a better attitude could be very effective and AA doesn’t have too much of a market on his wages, and is a prolific second tier forward if used properly, one thing I will give RM credit for. I think Archer wants out though. Whether after two shit seasons in the PL someone in our division will pay what Saints want is another matter.
Onachu is the most likely to have a market and don’t get the impression he wants to play in the Champ. Like him but 46 game season? Probably not.

Edited Tuesday at 20:40 by Gloucester Saint

benjii · Wednesday at 04:21

Sell:

THB, ABK, Aribo, Sulemana, Fernandes (would love to keep him, but can't see it)!

KWP leaves, don't renew Uguchukwu.

Onuachu is a funny one. If there's no decent offers, may as well keep him.

Try to keep Dibling and Rambo.

-----------Rambo-------

Suga--Bedders--Edwards-Manning

--------Downes---New-------

Dibling---Smallbone---Armstrong

--------Stewart/Onuachu----------

Sub: Macca, Stephens, Wood, Larios/Taylor, new midfielder, Edozie, Archer, couple of kids

Decent manager gets that promoted.

Edited Wednesday at 05:14 by benjii

Sarnia Cherie · Wednesday at 05:31

8 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Archer with a better attitude could be very effective and AA doesn’t have too much of a market on his wages, and is a prolific second tier forward if used properly, one thing I will give RM credit for. I think Archer wants out though. Whether after two shit seasons in the PL someone in our division will pay what Saints want is another matter.
Onachu is the most likely to have a market and don’t get the impression he wants to play in the Champ. Like him but 46 game season? Probably not.

All our players would struggle with a 46 game season. Not very much happens in training sessions by the look of them. RM said he was surprised by the physicality of the Premiership. I want our next manager to drag this idle bunch into some semblance of fit sportsmen able to compete for 90+ minutes.

Wiggles31 · Wednesday at 06:05

We need a reset up front. Archer clearly wants out. I would keep Tall Paul but wouldn’t mind if he left (for the right fee). But we desperately need a talisman up front. Pace power and athleticism (aka the new is he hungry enough). Same in midfield. We are far too powder puff which is why we’ve been found out at PL level. Same with Ipswich and Leicester.

Also there is no chance we keep THB or Fernandes. I think we need to raise plenty in the summer as we are going to need 8-9 new players.

Matthew Le God · Wednesday at 07:06

2 hours ago, benjii said:

-----------Rambo-------

Suga--Bedders--Edwards-Manning

--------Downes---New-------

Dibling---Smallbone---Armstrong

--------Stewart/Onuachu----------

Sub: Macca, Stephens, Wood, Larios/Taylor, new midfielder, Edozie, Archer, couple of kids

Decent manager gets that promoted.

You left a gap in central midfirld, but missed out Shea Charles, who is doing very well this season in the Championship and also captaining his country at a very young age. He might go straight into the starting XI.

I'd be very surprised if we still had Dibling and Ramsdale. I think Bazunu will be our keeper for the season.

Welington might be more useful than Taylor and Manning.

Plus we also have Juan, Matsuki and Traore and others back from their loans.

Edited Wednesday at 07:11 by Matthew Le God

benali-shorts · Wednesday at 08:27

11 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Two of the strikers he listed have been prolific in the Championship, the third likely would be aswell.

Two of those strikers have paltry returns in the Championship this season, having had confidence-sapping experiences in the Premier League - so on current evidence, I wouldn't be confident that they would be prolific next season.

I would hope Archer would be more effective in the Championship, but we have yet to see signs of it in a Saints shirt.

If we start the season with all three and no other strikers, I would be extremely concerned. If in addition Bazunu is in goal with McCarthy as back up, I would be highly dubious about our credentials for finishing in the top 2. It would also suggest that Spors' rebuild had failed to address two key areas of weakness that have been evident for the last 3+ seasons, and as such would undermine confidence in SR further still.

benjii · Wednesday at 09:13

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

You left a gap in central midfirld, but missed out Shea Charles, who is doing very well this season in the Championship and also captaining his country at a very young age. He might go straight into the starting XI.

I'd be very surprised if we still had Dibling and Ramsdale. I think Bazunu will be our keeper for the season.

Welington might be more useful than Taylor and Manning.

Plus we also have Juan, Matsuki and Traore and others back from their loans.

Forgot about Wellington and Charles!

Matthew Le God · Wednesday at 09:17

45 minutes ago, benali-shorts said:

Two of those strikers have paltry returns in the Championship this season, having had confidence-sapping experiences in the Premier League - so on current evidence, I wouldn't be confident that they would be prolific next season.

I would hope Archer would be more effective in the Championship, but we have yet to see signs of it in a Saints shirt.

Only one of the three he listed has been in the Championship this season, not two. That has only been si ce January and he I'd also being played out of his best role.

The three players listed were Armstrong, Archer and Onuachu. Thd former two have both been prolific in the Championship. I think Onuachu would as well.

Why would struggling in the PL impact their ability to perform in a lower league? Armstrong isn't getting the goals for WBA because he isn't being played in the role we used him in to be prolific last season.

Dman · Wednesday at 09:21

Realistically, we'll almsot certainly lose; Dibbling, Ramsdale, Fernandes, THB & KWP - You'd like to think that they'll bring in a minimum of £80m. (Average out at £20m a head with KWP leaving for nothing). With a substantial amount of saving on salary in the case of ramsdale.

I'd imagine that Sulemana, Tall Paul & ABk won't have the stomach for a championship season, so they will go - wouldn't be surprised if it was on loan.

Then you have people like Larios, Bednerak, Sugawara, Archer, Aribo, Downes, Manning, Wood who I could also see leaving if we get interest and other clubs are willing to pay up. This could easily featch us another 20-30 million.

You'd like to think, finacially, we'll be in a similar situation to that of the last time we went down - but we will have a few glaring gaps we'll need to fill.

We'd be sensible to use the loan market, much like the last time - just less loyal to them if we get promoted.

A few I'd be keen for us to take a look at;

Broja Sainz - would be a massive statement. However massively unrealistic.

Ben Doak - Given Sainz is unrealstic, a loan + option to buy would be a good deal. Good replacement for Dibbling.

Jack Clarke - If Ipswich are still keen on Downes - is there a deal to be done with Clarke coming the other way?

Josh Sargent - Old school number 9. One of the best strikers in the championship imo. Previously played in Germany, so you'd expect Spors knows about him..?

Callum Doyle - Left footed CB. 3 previous seasons in the Championship on loan (from City) at Cov, Leciester and now Norwich. I wanted him the last time we went down. A loan + option?

We're going to be short of goal, a very minumum, we're going to need to bring in a number 9 and a creative player behind him - a winger or number 10.

I think we're a proper CDM short, especially if Downes leaves.

and we'll need a new GK and RB as I don't have faith in Bazunu or Bree over the course of a season.

Something like this as a core squad I'd be pretty confident (depending on the new) ;

GK: New, Bazunu, McCarthy or Lumley

RB: New, Bree

CB: New, Stephens, Edwards, Wood, new,

LB: Wellington, Manning or New

CDM: Downes, Charles, new

CAM: New, smallbone

L/RW: Armstrong, New, Edozie, Fraser

CF: New, Archer, Stewart

Wiffle Waffle · Wednesday at 10:06

GK

I can’t see any way in which we keep Ramsdale and I would imagine we could get his release clause of £25m paid.

Lumley is out of contract and I suspect he will want first team football so I expect him to leave.

I would personally let McCarthy go, use Ollie Wright as our NO 3 and use Bazunu as our NO2.

Then try and sign someone like Travers from Bournemouth or see if we can get Filip Jörgensen on loan from Chelsea as part of a potential Ramsdale deal.

RB

Obviously KWP is off and it looks like we could get around £12m for Sugawara, which would only leave Bree which is fine although he would still be a backup for me. We would obviously need a new RB like Milan van Ewijk if Coventry don't go up.

LB

I suspect that Wellington may well want out and due to the interest from Europe when he signed for us I suspect we may be able to get a reasonable fee or £5-7 million. I believe Taylor didn’t renew his contract with Burnley because he wanted prem football so I would be surprised if he is still here come the end of summer. Larios will almost certainly go out on loan somewhere. So we will need a new LB to compete with Manning. Someone like Alfie Doughty may be achievable for £6-8 million, even more so if Luton go down.

CB

I believe TBH will go for around £25m ish. I believe Wood is pretty awful so I would be happy if we sold him, even more so if we got or money back. We will let ABK go for a nominal fee to get him off the books.

I don’t believe Stephens or Bednerak will leave this year and if you add Edwards to the mix we have a decent basis to build. I’d add a new CB to start with Edwards and keep Bednerak and Stephens as backups with Sanda as 5^th choice.

CM

I believe I read somewhere that Aribo wanted out so sell him to Turkey for £6m ish. If we can keep Downes and Charles that is a nice start. Id add a no nonsense defensive midfielder to the mix as well. With Smallbone we should be ok. Tyler Morton would be a handy addition if any of the above left.

AM

If we can keep Fernandes then he will definitely be the star of the championship, but on the assumption that Lallana will retire / move more into coaching, then we need a backup – Maybe Joe O'Brien-Whitmarsh could fill that role? Or Windass?

Wingers

I suspect we may look to see Sulamana and I suspect we may get £12-15m for him. I’d be surprised if Edoze was still here after his taste of first team football in Europe. I think we need to potentially do better than Fraser and we will probably sell Dibling for the £50m range. Armstrong will return to fill the RW/Inside forward roll

We will then have a few voids to fill – Tom Fellows at WBA could be a nice addition, Doak and Borja Saiz may be ambitious but they would be a statement.

Strikers

Tall Paul will go for around £5m, hopefully Leeds will come back with a £15m offer for Archer and hopefully Sheffield United will take BBD for £10m. Stewart could be handy if fit for more than 5 minutes but not someone we can rely on, so he would be the 3^rd choice. If Ings is free and we can afford his wages I would certainly take him as our back up. For our first choice we need a big target man – The Wycombe Striker Richard Kone could be quite handy.

S-Clarke · Wednesday at 10:13

3 minutes ago, Wiffle Waffle said:

GK

I can’t see any way in which we keep Ramsdale and I would imagine we could get his release clause of £25m paid.

Lumley is out of contract and I suspect he will want first team football so I expect him to leave.

I would personally let McCarthy go, use Ollie Wright as our NO 3 and use Bazunu as our NO2.

Then try and sign someone like Travers from Bournemouth or see if we can get Filip Jörgensen on loan from Chelsea as part of a potential Ramsdale deal.

RB

Obviously KWP is off and it looks like we could get around £12m for Sugawara, which would only leave Bree which is fine although he would still be a backup for me. We would obviously need a new RB like Milan van Ewijk if Coventry don't go up.

LB

I suspect that Wellington may well want out and due to the interest from Europe when he signed for us I suspect we may be able to get a reasonable fee or £5-7 million. I believe Taylor didn’t renew his contract with Burnley because he wanted prem football so I would be surprised if he is still here come the end of summer. Larios will almost certainly go out on loan somewhere. So we will need a new LB to compete with Manning. Someone like Alfie Doughty may be achievable for £6-8 million, even more so if Luton go down.

CB

I believe TBH will go for around £25m ish. I believe Wood is pretty awful so I would be happy if we sold him, even more so if we got or money back. We will let ABK go for a nominal fee to get him off the books.

I don’t believe Stephens or Bednerak will leave this year and if you add Edwards to the mix we have a decent basis to build. I’d add a new CB to start with Edwards and keep Bednerak and Stephens as backups with Sanda as 5^th choice.

CM

I believe I read somewhere that Aribo wanted out so sell him to Turkey for £6m ish. If we can keep Downes and Charles that is a nice start. Id add a no nonsense defensive midfielder to the mix as well. With Smallbone we should be ok. Tyler Morton would be a handy addition if any of the above left.

AM

If we can keep Fernandes then he will definitely be the star of the championship, but on the assumption that Lallana will retire / move more into coaching, then we need a backup – Maybe Joe O'Brien-Whitmarsh could fill that role? Or Windass?

Wingers

I suspect we may look to see Sulamana and I suspect we may get £12-15m for him. I’d be surprised if Edoze was still here after his taste of first team football in Europe. I think we need to potentially do better than Fraser and we will probably sell Dibling for the £50m range. Armstrong will return to fill the RW/Inside forward roll

We will then have a few voids to fill – Tom Fellows at WBA could be a nice addition, Doak and Borja Saiz may be ambitious but they would be a statement.

Strikers

Tall Paul will go for around £5m, hopefully Leeds will come back with a £15m offer for Archer and hopefully Sheffield United will take BBD for £10m. Stewart could be handy if fit for more than 5 minutes but not someone we can rely on, so he would be the 3^rd choice. If Ings is free and we can afford his wages I would certainly take him as our back up. For our first choice we need a big target man – The Wycombe Striker Richard Kone could be quite handy.

Some good shouts there, I've been a fan of Van Ewijk ever since he went to Coventry. Fellows is realistic and Saiz is a highly ambitious, but achievable target.

I can't see Wellington leaving after only signing for us a couple of months ago, not unless we get a silly offer. I can see him being our first choice LB next season.

Don't forget that we've also got those two guys who are currently at Gotzepe to come back, a CM and an attacker. There's a hell of a lot to do this summer, more so than last time - and there will be much less left over quality to work with, so we can't afford anymore £9m Stewart gambles.

gio1saints · Wednesday at 11:06

Few likely implications on the horizon:

Given Spors desire for a more physically robust game I think it’ likely Adam will not be a part of the new coaching set up next season. He is the antithesis of a robust physical game player.

And If we have to give Les back ( as we will unlikely be asking Chelsea for another loan) then we literally will have NO 6ft plus midfielders. I don’t count Tyler as a MF but Will, Joe, Flynn, Mateus etc do not fit.

Maybe one can be shorter ( Mateus) but the minimum in a three or four man mf will be two “big “ guys for Spors -at least, I think. Those players who are too ( relatively) small slow and weak but are still probably good enough at Championship level- like Flynn, Will and Joe, will all probably leave for a fee that will fund bigger stronger faster replacements. These are unlikely to be finished articles - so expect to see a bunch of big guys being recruited for size and speed first, skill second.

In Defence Ronnie Edward’s is too small to be a Spors CB. I expect him to go. THB will also go but it’s not inconceivable Jan stays on. Unless say, a Bundesliga club fancy giving him a run. Do not think he plays at any other EPL club unless it’s one of the newly promoted This means I expect at least two new bigger centre backs to be recruited. NOT left backs that can play CB!
The Full or wing backs is where we may have some internal options used and I think we may see that in these last few games. Players like Larios and Robinson for example given run outs. Manning and Bree do put some mileage in so I think they may still hold the starting spots, initially. Assuming of course KWP is off to join Brighton or similar.
Up front I think TP will leave as will Archer and RS will have a chance shortly to show if he can be relied upon in the championship next year. I think Kameldeen will be sold but we may see Sam Edozie back and given a proper run. Can also see the next Liam Delap being bought after we sell Tyler ( if we sell Tyler). What’s for sure is that we will not go into next season without at least one new bigger front man. The days of us playing only midgets, or nobody, at centre forward are over!

Matthew Le God · Wednesday at 13:05

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

And If we have to give Les back ( as we will unlikely be asking Chelsea for another loan) then we literally will have NO 6ft plus midfielders. I don’t count Tyler as a MF but Will, Joe, Flynn, Mateus etc do not fit.

That is not true. Shea Charles and Joe Aribo are both taller than 6ft. Both shrug off Championship players with ease.

benali-shorts · Wednesday at 13:17

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Only one of the three he listed has been in the Championship this season, not two. That has only been si ce January and he I'd also being played out of his best role.

The three players listed were Armstrong, Archer and Onuachu. Thd former two have both been prolific in the Championship. I think Onuachu would as well.

Why would struggling in the PL impact their ability to perform in a lower league? Armstrong isn't getting the goals for WBA because he isn't being played in the role we used him in to be prolific last season.

You were right re Onuachu rather than BB-D. My apologies.

At risk of engaging you, Archer has 18 championship goals across two seasons (18 in 42 apps) so prolific is a generous description. We know Armstrong's strengths and weaknesses. I don't think he is the shoo-in to that you do to bang in the goals next season given his experience and form this season. Spors has already stated how important physical resilience will be next season with regards to players being able to play two or three times in a week. Onuachu should be a question mark on that basis, as well as regarding his potential suitability for a high-pressing game.

There are concerns over each of the three and it would be naive to assume a best-case scenario for each of them.

Baird of the land · Wednesday at 17:50

there won’t be the level of change some are suggesting

Players I expect we’ll lose that we’d want to keep: ramsdale, fernandes, dibling

playersi expect to be moved on: Taylor, Abk, bbd,

Last time round the player I wanted us to keep was tella, this time it’s Charles. So if rohl goes to leipzig knowing my luck he’ll take Charles.

the rest:

I wouldn’t be bothered selling THB, is anyone really giving us our money back after how poor he’s been.

i wonder if bednarek may want out this time round.

of all the strikers tall Paul is one I’d most care about keeping.

qwertyell · Wednesday at 18:55

I'd be watching the Jonathan Rowe (winger, 21) situation at Marseille. They're trying to find a way to get out of an obligation to buy him from Norwich at the end of the season. I doubt they'll be able to wriggle out of it if it's an obligation not an option, but De Zerbi doesn't want him. So he's potentially going to find himself in limbo.

He's a proven Championship talent on the wing with a high ceiling and with attributes - pace and physicality - we both need and desire. Perhaps there's a little deal to be made there between us and Marseille? They sign him, loan him to us for a season with an option to make it permanent upon promotion for the same price (about £17m)?

Edited Wednesday at 18:56 by qwertyell

Team for the championship - likely exits, and what will be required for promotion and staying up

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