Team for the championship - likely exits, and what will be required for promotion and staying up

[Saint86]

The January window is obviously something of a damp squid, but it has made me wonder about next season.

Does anyone have a feel for what our wages to turnover ratio is this season? I've seen it reported that the club has sorted out any serious financial concerns re wages and that we've got headroom for next season. I'd like to think that most of our players have relegation clauses re wages as well.

The squad is currently too large regardless and i think everyone will agree it needs thinning, but you'd like to think that even with pretty major cuts to the playing squad we can still can put together a very solid side for the championship next year.

My assumed list of retained players
As a minimum i think we'll be looking at something like the following being retained:

GK - Bazunu, Macca, Lumley

CBS - Two of THB/Bednarek/Stephens, then Woods and Edwards, Sanda potentially.

Full backs - Suga, Bree, Manning, Wellington, Larios

CM - Downes, Smallbone, Shea Charles

Wingers/Attacking mids - Fraser, Edozie, SAA, Lallana i'd guess.

Strikers - Arma and Stewart (I'd like to see us sell him but it isn't going to happen is it 😅😂).

We also potentially have a couple of the Goztepe players to come in - Juan and Matsuki.

Likely exits/sales
I think we'll likely see most of the following moved on / hitting the exit door. I've tried to put indicative numbers against each of them - i'm sure people will have differing views on these but i've given a rounded down figure at end of this post.

Ramsale (£25M), BBD (7M), Archer (£15M) , Onuachu (£7M), Dibling (£50M), Fernandes (£20M), Sulemana (£10-15M), Aribo (£5M), ABK (5M), Taylor (£1M).

What will be required

Looking at the squad from a championship perspective, I think i'd want to see 1-2 good quality additions in the attacking mids/winger positions (rather than quantity), as well as a good quality striker, possibly an improvement at FB/WB as well. I feel that would see us being very competitive for the automatic spots. Loans (with / without options to buy should aid this as well).

And where i say "quality" in the above, these need to be players with the ability/potential to improve / step up into the prem and continue to improve and develop. Similar to what the likes of lallana, Morgan, Puncheon, Jose, Rickie did for us previously - i.e. the recruitment team need to actually going out and identify and buy good quality younger players with an ability level near to a Fernandes (who we signed for 15M euros) this summer.

In terms of looking beyond promotion and building a team that can not only get promotion but survive - this should also be supplemented by strengthening the positions that are currently not good enough for the prem as it stands - i.e., we should be looking for a player who can become a prem standard CM, an upgrade at CB, and someone who will become a prem standard keeper (assuming ramsdale does leave that is).

You'd like to think we'd have a healthy wedge available - The sales outlined above should bring in circa £130-£140M at the end of the day, hopefully wages are in good order, and we've secured parachute payments. It may also require Solak to dip his hands in his pockets a bit to make sure we land on our feet and don't waste what is going to be one of our last chances to get recruitment right.

Edited January 30 by Saint86

[Matthew Le God]

42 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Fernandes (£20M)

He is worth significantly more than that. Destined for a big club and a very big fee.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

On paper, even with the likely leavers as you mention there, we should have a very strong championship side.

In terms of long term building a competitive premier league side, of the players who might stay the only ones with premier league potential are Wood, Edwards, Bednarek, Charles and SAA IMO and most of them are still a long way off.  We're going to need a few strong transfer windows if we have any chance of competing in the prem in the next 2-3 years.

[Teamsaint1]

The Championship is going to be very tough next season, every bit as tough as last season. We are going to need to keep hold of or acquire some  PL quality in each area  of the pitch.

A priority ( at a guess) would be to  look to keep hold of one of either Fernandes or Dibling, on the assumption that selling one of them will deal with a fair bit of the revenue drop. Won’t be easy, but we really need to play hardball on that, if we possibly can.
More or less everything else is negotiable. EG Archer would raise a few quid, but where  and how do you get a quality replacement at anything like the sort of money we would get for him? He should score plenty in a decent championship side.

[Bakovnetski]

We will definitely need a hungry and capable young striker at the start of the season who can eventually step up to PL level. Waiting for promotion and relying on AA and maybe RS is too much of a risk and will make the recruitment of one more rushed and expensive if we actually do bounce back straight away.

[die Mannyschaft]

Ramsale (£14M), BBD (£4M), Archer (£8M) , Onuachu (£6M), Dibling (£55M), Fernandes (£25M), Sulemana (£9M), Aribo (£3M), ABK (£3M), Taylor (£1M).
Some players won't command much as club's know we will desperate for cash. The decent priced ones will be higher due to more bids 

We really don't need to spend that much, £50m can get a 8 or 7 players easily if the scout knows football.

Saints will be around 6th again and a play off spot. If we have a coach that can play a boring game when needed, direct football or score and park bus then top 2. Burnley v Leeds was diabolical 1 shot,crap football but it's a result don't think manager will stay as he won't be deciding on sales/purchase of players. 72 to 89 points

 

 

[skintsaint]

4 hours ago, Saint86 said:

The January window is obviously something of a damp squid

[RedArmy]

McCarthy 

Suga THB Woods Manning/Taylor

Downes Charles Aribo 

Armstrong Archer Edozie 
 

If we could keep that team together we’d be more than alright next season. 

[austsaint]

4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

He is worth significantly more than that. Destined for a big club and a very big fee.

One thing is certain.  Whatever fee we get - and it’s sure to be more than 20 million; it will be a bargain for the buying Club because Fernandes is headed for the top.

[beatlesaint]

32 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

McCarthy 

Suga THB Woods Manning/Taylor

Downes Charles Aribo 

Armstrong Archer Edozie 
 

If we could keep that team together we’d be more than alright next season. 

You’ve got the keeper wrong, there’s no way Bazunu will not be no. 1 choice.

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Ramsale (£14M), BBD (£4M), Archer (£8M) , Onuachu (£6M), Dibling (£55M), Fernandes (£25M), Sulemana (£9M), Aribo (£3M), ABK (£3M), Taylor (£1M).
Some players won't command much as club's know we will desperate for cash. The decent priced ones will be higher due to more bids 

Why would we be so desperate for cash that we'd sell recently signed players at a loss?

The players will have relegation wage reduction clauses and we have parachute payments which help deal with loss in revenue. Dibling will bring in a huge amount, so will Fernandes. So why would they sell some of those other players like Ramsdale, Archer etc at a loss? What would force them to do that?

Edited January 30 by Matthew Le God

[Chez]

33 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

McCarthy 

Suga THB Woods Manning/Taylor

Downes Charles Aribo 

Armstrong Archer Edozie 
 

If we could keep that team together we’d be more than alright next season. 

Next season, "more than alright" is getting promoted, right? That would be my hope/expectation, but my concern is that it's a worse side than the one that came 4th last time we were in the championship - and for that side to be even close to the 23/24 season one, it relies on them once again working out a way of winning most games and Armstrong once again getting his confidence back and scoring 20+ goals again (which I think is far from certain).

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Much as posted. Everyone will have a price, and while some will be a little sadder to see go than others, not by that much considering the last few seasons.

SR will want as much as they can for key assets Fernandes and Dibling.

While not impossible, it's hard to imagine someone not coming on for Ramsdale. THB probably next in line.

KWP, Lallana, Lumley, Les and Gronbaek (unless he's a gem) will be on their way.

Charles and BBD might well hope for their loan clubs to go up, and offers to be made. Edozie was punted out due to an influx of players, and might be hoping for newcpastuees too.

McCarthy, Stephens, Aribo, Will, Stewart, Bree, Taylor, Fraser, SAA, Onuachu and ABK would be going into their final year (unless there are extension clauses). Medical reasons might prevent a couple of them going. High wages may prevent others wanting to go. Also, if the club don't go back up, it might be cheaper to renew a contract than pay agent and signing on fees to someone else. That might keep a few around beyond next season.

No doubt SR will still be desperately trying to get something back for Sule.

Beyond all that, we've still got the same gaping holes in the first 11 that SR faced when they arrived and didn't resolve or made worse. A Romeu replacement and an Adams upgrade. If Fernandes goes, that would be a third.

GK - McCarthy, Bazunu

FB - Manning, Bree, Sugawara, Larios, Welington

CB - Stephens, THB, Wood, Bednerak, Edwards

DM - Charles

MC - Downes, Smallbone,

AM - Fraser, Amo-Ameyaw, Edozie

FC - Armstrong, Stewart, Archer

Leaving - KWP, Aribo, Lallana, Lumley, Fernandes, Sulemana, Taylor, Ugochakwa, Gronbaek, Ramsdale, Onuachu, Dibling, ABK, BBD

Incoming - Romeu replacement, Adams upgrade, Fernandes replacement, keeper competition.

That would bring it up to 25 players. Hopefully a few development players ( we bought players already with some lower league experience), loans and the odd upgrade elsewhere to round it out. And we'll no doubt get a contingent of players then loaned out to other SR clubs.

 

Edited January 30 by Holmes_and_Watson

[CSA96]

12 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Much as posted. Everyone will have a price, and while some will be a little sadder to see go than others, not by that much considering the last few seasons.

SR will want as much as they can for key assets Fernandes and Dibling.

While not impossible, it's hard to imagine someone not coming on for Ramsdale. THB probably next in line.

KWP, Lallana, Lumley, Les and Gronbaek (unless he's a gem) will be on their way.

Charles and BBD might well hope for their loan clubs to go up, and offers to be made. Edozie was punted out due to an influx of players, and might be hoping for newcpastuees too.

McCarthy, Stephens, Aribo, Will, Stewart, Bree, Taylor, Fraser, SAA, Onuachu and ABK would be going into their final year (unless there are extension clauses). Medical reasons might prevent a couple of them going. High wages may prevent others wanting to go. Also, if the club don't go back up, it might be cheaper to renew a contract than pay agent and signing on fees to someone else. That might keep a few around beyond next season.

No doubt SR will still be desperately trying to get something back for Sule.

Beyond all that, we've still got the same gaping holes in the first 11 that SR faced when they arrived and didn't resolve or made worse. A Romeu replacement and an Adams upgrade. If Fernandes goes, that would be a third.

GK - McCarthy, Bazunu

FB - Manning, Bree, Sugawara, Larios, Welington

CB - Stephens, THB, Wood, Bednerak, Edwards

DM - Charles

MC - Downes, Smallbone,

AM - Fraser, Amo-Ameyaw, Edozie

FC - Armstrong, Stewart, Archer

Leaving - KWP, Aribo, Lallana, Lumley, Fernandes, Sulemana, Taylor, Ugochakwa, Gronbaek, Ramsdale, Onuachu, Dibling, ABK, BBD

Incoming - Romeu replacement, Adams upgrade, Fernandes replacement, keeper competition.

That would bring it up to 25 players. Hopefully a few development players ( we bought players already with some lower league experience), loans and the odd upgrade elsewhere to round it out. And we'll no doubt get a contingent of players then loaned out elsewhere.

 

Christ, if those are the set of AMs then I would hope you'd have two, or at bare minimum one wide player coming in

[Holmes_and_Watson]

23 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Christ, if those are the set of AMs then I would hope you'd have two, or at bare minimum one wide player coming in

If we got an Adams upgrade in, it would allow AA to also be there. But yes, it's a position to upgrade or get a loan in for. Preferably something more successful than Cornet was.

[RedArmy]

11 hours ago, Chez said:

Next season, "more than alright" is getting promoted, right? That would be my hope/expectation, but my concern is that it's a worse side than the one that came 4th last time we were in the championship - and for that side to be even close to the 23/24 season one, it relies on them once again working out a way of winning most games and Armstrong once again getting his confidence back and scoring 20+ goals again (which I think is far from certain).

Well that’s clearly one of our best 11’s taking into account the players we are likely to lose and without any signings. I imagine the team will look slightly different but we have the players to compete next season and you could still argue we only came 4th last year because the manager underperformed. 
 

I have zero concerns with Armstrongs ability to score goals in the championship. He scored 21 goals in a team that was more interested in holding possession than getting on the front foot and he did that after scoring 4 goals in 2 seasons in the premier league. I imagine he had more doubts about himself going into last season than he will going into next season. 

[Dman]

17 hours ago, Saint86 said:

My assumed list of retained players
As a minimum i think we'll be looking at something like the following being retained:

GK - Bazunu, Macca, Lumley

CBS - Two of THB/Bednarek/Stephens, then Woods and Edwards, Sanda potentially.

Full backs - Suga, Bree, Manning, Wellington, Larios

CM - Downes, Smallbone, Shea Charles

Wingers/Attacking mids - Fraser, Edozie, SAA, Lallana i'd guess.

Strikers - Arma and Stewart (I'd like to see us sell him but it isn't going to happen is it 😅😂).

We also potentially have a couple of the Goztepe players to come in - Juan and Matsuki.

 

Of that I think we'll almost certainly lose THB and Stewart is a busted flush we cannot rely on. I suspect if hes any good, that Wellington will go out to Turkey on loan. 

This is the core of a decent championship side imo. Especially if you add Archer to the strikers list, I think we'll score more than enough. 

imo, we'd be a CM, number 10, GK, and probably a old head at CB short of having a really competitive side. 

At a worse case, 

GK: Bazunu / New

DEF: Suga, Wood / Edwards, Bedernek / Stephens / new (leader), Manning 

MID: Downes, Charles 

AM: Arma, New 10, Edozie / Fraser 

9: Archer 

Really doesn't look too bad to me. Lacks a bit of depth but isn't a million miles off (and we should have a decent kitty to spend). 

For me, the most important signing next season is the manager. I pray we stick it all on the line for Rohl.  

[Dman]

12 hours ago, Chez said:

Next season, "more than alright" is getting promoted, right? That would be my hope/expectation, but my concern is that it's a worse side than the one that came 4th last time we were in the championship - and for that side to be even close to the 23/24 season one, it relies on them once again working out a way of winning most games and Armstrong once again getting his confidence back and scoring 20+ goals again (which I think is far from certain).

Russell Martin held us back last season. Terrible manager. 

I also think people under estimate how good Archer will be in the championship under the right manager. He'll easily score 10-20 goals. 

[leesaint88]

I think we'll be alright next season but it'll all depend on who comes down with us. I'd fully expect Ipswich to win the league as I think they'll keep most of that squad together and then its Leicester or Wolves, not sure how either would fair to be honest. Wolves would probably suffer with more departures but would probably spend a fair bit too. 

[leesaint88]

17 minutes ago, Dman said:

Russell Martin held us back last season. Terrible manager. 

I also think people under estimate how good Archer will be in the championship under the right manager. He'll easily score 10-20 goals. 

I still think Archer will leave even if we go down. With all indicators pointing towards Juric staying next season I don't think he's a player that he really rates, which is a shame as he's been very good in the past with Preston and 'Boro. 

[Chez]

50 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Well that’s clearly one of our best 11’s taking into account the players we are likely to lose and without any signings. I imagine the team will look slightly different but we have the players to compete next season and you could still argue we only came 4th last year because the manager underperformed. 
 

I have zero concerns with Armstrongs ability to score goals in the championship. He scored 21 goals in a team that was more interested in holding possession than getting on the front foot and he did that after scoring 4 goals in 2 seasons in the premier league. I imagine he had more doubts about himself going into last season than he will going into next season. 

It seems to be a `done deal' on here that Armstrong will fire in the goals next season. I hope you are right, but right now, Armstrong's confidence is completely shot. He dithers and hesitates, all fluency is lost, nothing looks natural and he doesn't strike anything cleanly. Obviously, that was the same the last time we went down. Thankfully, he refound his confidence and form, and by the end of last season was at his most instinctive and decisive best. I don't think its a certainty he refinds that confidence and form though. I have concerns.  

[Chez]

54 minutes ago, Dman said:

Russell Martin held us back last season. Terrible manager. 

I also think people under estimate how good Archer will be in the championship under the right manager. He'll easily score 10-20 goals. 

I was never convinced by Martin, but considering the absolutely shit show he inherited, I respect the job he did in uniting the squad, setting a pattern of play and getting us winning games. Whatever his limitations, I think he should be credited for that - so I'm never going to call him a "terrible manager". Let's see how the next manager, Juric or whoever, handles the job of turning a sinking ship (full of disgruntled sailors) around in the matter of a couple of months.

I can see Archer scoring goals in the championship. He's quick and seems to know where the net is. Not sure anyone in the Prem is going to buy him in the summer, so unless he joins Leeds now (which looks unlikely), we will probably get to see that.

 

[Patches O Houlihan]

Ramsdale is contracted until 2028, and understandably doesn't have amazing stats this year. If we could somehow keep him, he would almost be a cheat code in the Championship if we played the right style.

Would love to be able to hold on to one of Dibling or Fernandes  

[pimpin4rizeal]

What’s the contract situations like with sulemana and onuachu ? Would be good to keep both as they are clearly better then our other options, they don’t have the previous championship stats like AA and Bbd but clearly better players at a higher level ..

personally I hope we keep most of the squad together bar the obvious ones that will go.. don’t need a lot of changes for next season it’s the season after where we need a overhaul 

[Wade Garrett]

17 hours ago, RedArmy said:

McCarthy 

Suga THB Woods Manning/Taylor

Downes Charles Aribo 

Armstrong Archer Edozie 
 

If we could keep that team together we’d be more than alright next season. 

If alright means not getting relegated again I would agree.

That team is a very depressing thought.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What’s the contract situations like with sulemana and onuachu ? Would be good to keep both as they are clearly better then our other options, they don’t have the previous championship stats like AA and Bbd but clearly better players at a higher level ..

personally I hope we keep most of the squad together bar the obvious ones that will go.. don’t need a lot of changes for next season it’s the season after where we need a overhaul 

If you've not seen it, Over land and sea's excellent Keeping Track of the Contracts thread gives you loads of useful information. Just go to the first post in the thread which is updated when there are changes.

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/topic/41841-keeping-track-of-the-contracts-2024-25/

 

[Dragon_man]

We'll get an indication a week Saturday. High flying Championship side vs our best (as it stands today). 

[Chez]

2 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What’s the contract situations like with sulemana and onuachu ? Would be good to keep both as they are clearly better then our other options, they don’t have the previous championship stats like AA and Bbd but clearly better players at a higher level ..

personally I hope we keep most of the squad together bar the obvious ones that will go.. don’t need a lot of changes for next season it’s the season after where we need a overhaul 

Both are under contract next season, so will be here unless someone meets our valuation.

That is the largely the case with th erest of thre squad. All under contract, so will be here. Many however will be out of contract the following summer. Which is perfect when you need to perform a overhaul/upgrade on promotion (hopefully). 

[Wiggles31]

My take on outgoings is;

Dibling £55m, Fernandes £35m, Ramsdale £25m, THB £25m, Aribo £5m, BBD £5m and Sugawara £6m (Total - £156m) of course it will be probably a little less than that. Correct me if I’m wrong but that is much higher than our previous outgoings after the last relegation? 

Incomings we desperately need to invest in our;

Centre Forward

Goalkeeper 

Winger 

Number 10

CDM

Centre back

RB

So basically half a team! 

Unlike the previous season we need to be signing players capable of stepping up. And focusing on playing a way that will give us a chance of scrapping properly if we get promoted. Danny Rohl all the way for me. 
 

I feel pretty confident about next year so long as we get the manager situation right and adopt a high press style.

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, Dragon_man said:

We'll get an indication a week Saturday. High flying Championship side vs our best (as it stands today). 

Main reason I’m going is to exactly evaluate that. Swansea was a clue but Burnley even better. If we can match and or outplay Burnley ( assuming they put out a decent side) it should be a reasonably good indicator of our prospects for next season. I currently expect us to outplay them and win albeit I also expect Burnley to play their reserve team so the result may be not quite as relevant. 

[Give it to Ron]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

If alright means not getting relegated again I would agree.

That team is a very depressing thought.

 

Also he misses the fact we wont have Aribo he is off end of season 

[DrunkenSaint]

20 hours ago, RedArmy said:

McCarthy 

Suga THB Woods Manning/Taylor

Downes Charles Aribo 

Armstrong Archer Edozie 
 

If we could keep that team together we’d be more than alright next season. 

Aribo wants to go, Dibling wants to stay, id say if our owner shows some balls, we should keep him and try and keep Fernandes for one season and try and build a team like we once did. Selling and rebuilding isnt working, keeping a team together is the key to success, then staying in the prem will get him more money over time.

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, DrunkenSaint said:

Aribo wants to go, Dibling wants to stay, id say if our owner shows some balls, we should keep him and try and keep Fernandes for one season and try and build a team like we once did. Selling and rebuilding isnt working, keeping a team together is the key to success, then staying in the prem will get him more money over time.

I’m not sure it’s a case of Dragan ‘showing some balls’, more about balancing the books which every relegated team has had to do.

[Chez]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Main reason I’m going is to exactly evaluate that. Swansea was a clue but Burnley even better. If we can match and or outplay Burnley ( assuming they put out a decent side) it should be a reasonably good indicator of our prospects for next season. I currently expect us to outplay them and win albeit I also expect Burnley to play their reserve team so the result may be not quite as relevant. 

if they play their first team, then they will have an advantage of being a team winning every week and brimming with confidence, while obviously we are low in confidence and not winning. Next season, our squad might contain a lot of the same players, but hopefully will be in a very different state of mind.

Edited January 31 by Chez

[FarehamSaintJames]

I think they’ll be wholesale changes.

Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, Hardwood-Bellis, maybe even Archer - they’ll be high value players which the club will want to move on as quickly as possible due to PSR restraints. 

Those financials are a lot tighter when you have a second successive relegation from the Premier League, parachute payments are a lot drier.

I would expect the like of Lallana, Brereton, Onuachu, Bella-Kotchap, Walker-Peters and Sulemana to be gone as well as they’ll bring a few million in as a collective but not much more than that.

I think the next stage will depend on who you have as manager. Now I know Dragan Solak has said that Ivan Juric has signed and here for next season too, but realistically how can you back a manager if he only picks up say five more points this season. That’s ludicrous.

I’d be more in favour of Danny Rohl coming in and us looking at pressing, pumped up Championship players - we know he clearly has an affinity with his squad wherever he may be.

He was also suit Johan Spors (potentially incoming DoF) in terms of style of play. There’s an alignment there straight away.

My concern is that is we keep Juric and we don’t perform in those opening few months it’s extremely hard to push up the table mid-season in the Championship.
The club cannot afford to screw up this next move.

If Sport Republic are looking to bring into the club and use the Goztepe/Valenciennes players that have been signed or loan for the group then I hope they’re actually good enough; grit and experience is what is needed in the Championship.

[Mr X]

On 01/02/2025 at 09:17, FarehamSaintJames said:

I think they’ll be wholesale changes.

Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, Hardwood-Bellis, maybe even Archer - they’ll be high value players which the club will want to move on as quickly as possible due to PSR restraints. 

Those financials are a lot tighter when you have a second successive relegation from the Premier League, parachute payments are a lot drier.

I would expect the like of Lallana, Brereton, Onuachu, Bella-Kotchap, Walker-Peters and Sulemana to be gone as well as they’ll bring a few million in as a collective but not much more than that.

I think the next stage will depend on who you have as manager. Now I know Dragan Solak has said that Ivan Juric has signed and here for next season too, but realistically how can you back a manager if he only picks up say five more points this season. That’s ludicrous.

I’d be more in favour of Danny Rohl coming in and us looking at pressing, pumped up Championship players - we know he clearly has an affinity with his squad wherever he may be.

He was also suit Johan Spors (potentially incoming DoF) in terms of style of play. There’s an alignment there straight away.

My concern is that is we keep Juric and we don’t perform in those opening few months it’s extremely hard to push up the table mid-season in the Championship.
The club cannot afford to screw up this next move.

If Sport Republic are looking to bring into the club and use the Goztepe/Valenciennes players that have been signed or loan for the group then I hope they’re actually good enough; grit and experience is what is needed in the Championship.

The question is have you seen an improvement in the way we play under juric compared to Martin? 

For me we certainly play better football with not so much aimless tippy tappy in defence.... However results haven't gone our way Ipswich aside and it's points in the board that count.  

I've seen enough about jurics game to warrant giving him a chance at championship level as he has shown he can raise the performances in mediocre players, lose the first few games though and he will be under pressure.

Shame we can't get rid of Sports republic as they are really what is holding our club back 

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Shame we can't get rid of Sports republic as they are really what is holding our club back 

Recruitment is what is holding us back and Sport Republic have admitted this and are looking to address it with Johannes Spors it seems.

[Patches O Houlihan]

Is anyone else already bored of seeing this?

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

The question is have you seen an improvement in the way we play under juric compared to Martin? 

For me we certainly play better football with not so much aimless tippy tappy in defence.... However results haven't gone our way Ipswich aside and it's points in the board that count.  

I've seen enough about jurics game to warrant giving him a chance at championship level as he has shown he can raise the performances in mediocre players, lose the first few games though and he will be under pressure.

Shame we can't get rid of Sports republic as they are really what is holding our club back 

I think it might be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'.

Dragan has put more money into Saints than anyone ever has.

Yes there have been some poor choices/decisions, but also there have been some unfortunate circumstances. He has had two well respected Directors of Football sign for Saints, and then get poached to a huge job very quickly. We were in the conversation for Gakpo.

Yes there has been some crap recruitment but also some wins both on the pitch and financially: Lavia, Fernandes, Ramsdale, Downes, THB, financial benefit of the sale of Meghoma/SAA, sale of Livramento.

Dragan's money with the assistance of a replacement Paul Mitchell would be great for us.  

Edited February 4 by Patches O Houlihan

[Ex Lion Tamer]

On 30/01/2025 at 15:38, Saint86 said:

And where i say "quality" in the above, these need to be players with the ability/potential to improve / step up into the prem and continue to improve and develop. Similar to what the likes of lallana, Morgan, Puncheon, Jose, Rickie did for us previously - i.e. the recruitment team need to actually going out and identify and buy good quality younger players with an ability level near to a Fernandes (who we signed for 15M euros) this summer.

Worth saying that it took us more than one summer to acquire and develop those players. It has to be a long term project

Edited February 4 by Ex Lion Tamer

[S-Clarke]

20 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

I think it might be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'.

Dragan has put more money into Saints than anyone ever has.

Yes there have been some poor choices/decisions, but also there have been some unfortunate circumstances. He has had two well respected Directors of Football sign for Saints, and then get poached to a huge job very quickly. We were in the conversation for Gakpo.

Yes there has been some crap recruitment but also some wins both on the pitch and financially: Lavia, Fernandes, Ramsdale, Downes, THB, financial benefit of the sale of Meghoma/SAA, sale of Livramento.

Dragan's money with the assistance of a replacement Paul Mitchell would be great for us.  

I agree with this in the main, my gripe has never been with Dragan - who like you say has put his money where his mouth is.

The biggest issue is the lack of a footballing department, even aside from the DoF's there hasn't been what I'd call a stable recruitment environment. The ideal situation is that the DoF builds his own footballing structure, including analysts, scouts and the such - Shields nor Wilcox were here long enough to even implement that.

If we can get a DoF who wants to stay longer than 6 months, then he has a chance to shape the scouting and recruitment in a way that aligns with an overall strategy. What we have at the moment, in the absence of a footballing structure, is a club which is hopping between styles and philosophies every other day. 

I still find it incredibly odd that we felt it was a good idea to ignore a replacement for Willcox when he left, and try to shoe-horn non-football people into those roles - look at how that's turned out. 

As a club we need to start getting ruthless. That starts with the DoF calling the shots and setting the goals within the department, but equally requires the manager to call out players who need calling out. Some of the first team squad have enjoyed comfortable lives for the last year, going to work with their best mate. In isolation there isn't a problem with a manager being friendly with his team (Poch had an element of this), but there is a line and I think Martin created an environment which crossed that line and it encouraged cliques.

The summer is a big one for us, even bigger than the last time we went down. We will likely lose a lot, but in a way it provides us with an opportunity to reset everything. I don't envisage us being amazingly competitive in the first year, but long term if we get it right I think we'll be on the right track. I think building the footballing department and scouting setup is step 1, then the rest will follow over time.

Edited February 4 by S-Clarke

[Dman]

Its hard to say who will / wont be here, the club seem to be completely scatter gun in their approach and everyone seems to be for sale. 

We should have a pretty decent kitty, you'd be niave to not think that we'll sell Ramsdale & Dibbling, with it being very likley we shift on others such as THB, Paul, Sulemana, Aribo, BBD, Bednerak, Fernandes with others probably also going Archer? Armstrong? Downes? Manning? 

I think Wellington will probably go out to Turkey if they continue doing well. 

A team something like this I'd be pretty comfortable with; 

Manager: Rohl

Bazunu, McCarthy

Suga, Bree, Edwards, Stephens, New, Wood, Manning, new

Charles, Downes, new

 Armstrong, Edozie, new

Archer, new

With a few others added in, that a solid championship side that should be fighting for automatic promotion. 

Personally I'd like us to take a look at Jack Clarke - not getting games at Ipswich. Tangana - Been brilliant at Millwall. Tyler Morton - Brilliant at Hull last season a few games for Liverpool this season, needs a move imo.

Then a SR special in no10 and no9 

Edited February 4 by Dman

[FarehamSaintJames]

6 hours ago, Mr X said:

The question is have you seen an improvement in the way we play under juric compared to Martin? 

For me we certainly play better football with not so much aimless tippy tappy in defence.... However results haven't gone our way Ipswich aside and it's points in the board that count.  

I've seen enough about jurics game to warrant giving him a chance at championship level as he has shown he can raise the performances in mediocre players, lose the first few games though and he will be under pressure.

Shame we can't get rid of Sports republic as they are really what is holding our club back 

I’ve seen marginally better, but honestly nothing that makes me think we must stick with him if we go down.

I’m certainly not keen on this five at the back rubbish as it just sets you up to hold on and hit on the counter rather than attack teams.

RM last season could’ve even slightly tweaked tactics so that when the likes of Sulemana was on the pitch it was to run at defenders, but he stripped that back.

So 4-3-3 with a press would’ve been better suited than messing around with it. 

[woodsaint1]

In the summer please can we finally rid ourselves of the likes of McCarthy, Stephens, Bednarek, ABK and Smallbone. They're like a bad smell now.

I could see us selling Dibling, Ramsdale, Sulemana, BBD and Onuachu, but would be hopeful that we could hold onto the likes of Fernandes, THB and Archer - who could be great assets in the Championship.

                      New GK

Suga   THB  Wood/Edwards   Welly

           Downes   New CM

New RM   Fernandes  Edozie/New LM

                     New CF

[benjii]

Damp squid.

 

Lolz.

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 04/02/2025 at 09:28, S-Clarke said:

I agree with this in the main, my gripe has never been with Dragan - who like you say has put his money where his mouth is.

The biggest issue is the lack of a footballing department, even aside from the DoF's there hasn't been what I'd call a stable recruitment environment. The ideal situation is that the DoF builds his own footballing structure, including analysts, scouts and the such - Shields nor Wilcox were here long enough to even implement that.

If we can get a DoF who wants to stay longer than 6 months, then he has a chance to shape the scouting and recruitment in a way that aligns with an overall strategy. What we have at the moment, in the absence of a footballing structure, is a club which is hopping between styles and philosophies every other day. 

I still find it incredibly odd that we felt it was a good idea to ignore a replacement for Willcox when he left, and try to shoe-horn non-football people into those roles - look at how that's turned out. 

As a club we need to start getting ruthless. That starts with the DoF calling the shots and setting the goals within the department, but equally requires the manager to call out players who need calling out. Some of the first team squad have enjoyed comfortable lives for the last year, going to work with their best mate. In isolation there isn't a problem with a manager being friendly with his team (Poch had an element of this), but there is a line and I think Martin created an environment which crossed that line and it encouraged cliques.

The summer is a big one for us, even bigger than the last time we went down. We will likely lose a lot, but in a way it provides us with an opportunity to reset everything. I don't envisage us being amazingly competitive in the first year, but long term if we get it right I think we'll be on the right track. I think building the footballing department and scouting setup is step 1, then the rest will follow over time.

But do you think it’s a bad thing that we have abandoned the possession style of Martin..  let’s say Wilcox stayed would you have wanted a continuation in that failed approach ?

As you pointed out we have had  guys like shields and Wilcox poached very fast which hasn’t helped at all .. I still think that the way do try and do things on the cheap is probably coming from above the director of football. 

[skintsaint]

Hope we give Matsuki a chance next season. Seems to be doing well in Turkey.

And this to please all the statto's out there!

[Chez]

On 04/02/2025 at 09:39, Dman said:

Its hard to say who will / wont be here, the club seem to be completely scatter gun in their approach and everyone seems to be for sale. 

We should have a pretty decent kitty, you'd be niave to not think that we'll sell Ramsdale & Dibbling, with it being very likley we shift on others such as THB, Paul, Sulemana, Aribo, BBD, Bednerak, Fernandes with others probably also going Archer? Armstrong? Downes? Manning? 

I think Wellington will probably go out to Turkey if they continue doing well. 

A team something like this I'd be pretty comfortable with; 

Manager: Rohl

Bazunu, McCarthy

Suga, Bree, Edwards, Stephens, New, Wood, Manning, new

Charles, Downes, new

 Armstrong, Edozie, new

Archer, new

With a few others added in, that a solid championship side that should be fighting for automatic promotion. 

Personally I'd like us to take a look at Jack Clarke - not getting games at Ipswich. Tangana - Been brilliant at Millwall. Tyler Morton - Brilliant at Hull last season a few games for Liverpool this season, needs a move imo.

Then a SR special in no10 and no9 

I'd be surprised if we signed another CB in the summer. Assuming ABK departs, we still have THB, Edwards, Woods, Stephens, Bednarek and Sanda. Taylor and Bree can both play there too. Quite a few will need to go out before we bring more in. Could happen I suppose.

If it does, one option might be to loan Tyler Bindon from Forest. They just signed him from Reading and have left him there until the end of the season. I'd assume they will loan him to a championship club next season. Reading fans rave about him. Maybe in Edwards we already have that young football league talent though.

 

[Chez]

If we go down, does Goetze become the top of the SR chain? Is the standard in the Turkish top flight better than the Championship? 

[Charlie Wayman]

On 30/01/2025 at 19:45, die Mannyschaft said:

Ramsale (£14M), BBD (£4M), Archer (£8M) , Onuachu (£6M), Dibling (£55M), Fernandes (£25M), Sulemana (£9M), Aribo (£3M), ABK (£3M), Taylor (£1M).
Some players won't command much as club's know we will desperate for cash. The decent priced ones will be higher due to more bids 

We really don't need to spend that much, £50m can get a 8 or 7 players easily if the scout knows football.

Saints will be around 6th again and a play off spot. If we have a coach that can play a boring game when needed, direct football or score and park bus then top 2. Burnley v Leeds was diabolical 1 shot,crap football but it's a result don't think manager will stay as he won't be deciding on sales/purchase of players. 72 to 89 points

 

 

I am more attuned to your valuations (KWP?) but if we lose all of those players in the summer, we will be in freefall next season through the loss of any sort of continuity. For that reason it is unlikely the club will let more than two or three leave unless their contracts have expired. Sensibly they will only let leave the players that they want to let leave.

Dibling, Fernandes & Sulemana must be the backbone of rebuilding a side that can challenge for the title and fare respectably in the Premier League so if SR are serious about a PL future then they must fight tooth and nail to resist their transfers.

If you and others are right and the team has to be rebuilt from the ground up than finding a way back to the PL will be challenging. In a worst case projection it will be years before we can fight our way back. Juric for one is unlikley to hang around for long if our immediate prospects are poor.

Expect that Ipswich & Leicester will be the sides to beat next season so there is only one promotion place left for us and the three clubs from the top six in the Championship this season who miss out on promotion in May.

Edited February 5 by Charlie Wayman