Saints 1-3 Newcastle - Match Thread

[LuckyNumber7]

Cameron Archer's 'performance' after coming on was a disgrace.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

You can separate them... if you hired the best refs from around the world rather than limiting yourself to largely just English ones. Opening up the market for the best refs improves the use of VAR, in the same way the influx of foreign players into the PL significantly increased the quality level of the players in the league.

It would still be interfering and re-refereeing the game and it wouldn't be any quicker or more accurate, just different 

[Chris cooper]

19 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Entrenched mentality my arse. We were more competitive earlier in the season than we are at present. 

Bollox 😂😂😂

[Give it to Ron]

22 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Entrenched mentality my arse. We were more competitive earlier in the season than we are at present. 

We were so competitive against Bournemouth and all those points we got with 70% possession and no shots!
Russ has gone get over it.

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It would still be interfering and re-refereeing the game and it wouldn't be any quicker or more accurate, just different 

If you hire the best of the best match officials from around the world, why wouldn't more competent people be quicker or more accurate at their job?

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

If you hire the best of the best match officials from around the world, why wouldn't more competent people be quicker or more accurate at their job?

There is a process to follow and it cannot be rushed. Hence the delays.

Why do you think they would be more accurate? 

[JohnS]

Thought Fernandes & Lesley were both outstanding today - only positives I could see

[Ken Tone]

Back from the game and can't bear to read through 15 pages of hurt , so sorry if someone has already posted this but      .....

Anyone else feel that Walker-Peters was saying goodbye as he came to the crowd at the end?

[captainchris]

Yes the refs and Var have been terrible but that is only a minor distraction from all the major issues we have and don’t really warrant a mention in the grand scheme of things … 

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, obelisk said:

The Martin mentality is too far entrenched in some players. First thought is always to make an easy pass backwards, attack at walking pace and refuse to cross the ball when in attacking areas. There are some signs that it's being knocked out of them but it'll take an exorcism probably. Trouble is there's now a losing mentality at the club.

Just a reminder that the Martin losing mentality is the only manager to have delivered us regular wins for quite a while now.

[Matthew Le God]

21 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

1) There is a process to follow and it cannot be rushed. Hence the delays.

2) Why do you think they would be more accurate? 

1) Across all jobs people who are more competent at tasks can often do them quicker than others doing the same task. In the case of match officials, less pondering over decisions. Might not be a huge difference in time, but having a higher % of correct calls benefits the sport.

2) Because hiring the best in the world at a task leads to more accurate decisions vs only the best from one country. People who are better at their job are more accurate at that job. Hardly a controversial statement!

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Just a reminder that the Martin losing mentality is the only manager to have delivered us regular wins for quite a while now.

Against inferior opposition

[LuckyNumber7]

12 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

Back from the game and can't bear to read through 15 pages of hurt , so sorry if someone has already posted this but      .....

Anyone else feel that Walker-Peters was saying goodbye as he came to the crowd at the end?

I thought that too at first, although he went to give his shirt to some kid at the front with a banner so may just have been that. Did feel a bit like a goodbye though.

Wouldn't begrudge him one bit if he left now, he's been a great servant and deserves better, frankly.

[saintwbu]

54 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Cameron Archer's 'performance' after coming on was a disgrace.

It always is, blows that my mind that people beg for him to start. If a chance is presented to him, he might finish it, but outside of that he is pathetic - weak as piss, no physical presence whatsoever, it makes me genuinely miss having Che Adams up top. 

[macca155]

Another ghastly defeat, lots of dejected people walking away this evening.

Just relegate us now shouted someone near us. I agree please just make it stop.

Newcastle simply played effective give and go tactics against our lumbering midfield. First goal Ugochukwa totally lost his man. He was so slow reacting.

Ridiculous long wait for VAR. I can accept a soft penalty and it was very soft, but why drag it out. Just ruins the game. Similar with the offside, if it isn't clear then go immediately with the refs decision.

Fernandes as usual a cut above. I thought Bree and Bendarek stuck at it but the rest just too easily out fought and out thought.

Always a bad sign when the players repeatedly pass backwards.

[saintwbu]

40 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Thought Fernandes & Lesley were both outstanding today - only positives I could see

Les is fucking shit - Tonali just ran straight past him for the third whilst he pointed at him. It’s no coincidence we’ve conceded 5, 3 and 3 in the last 3 games he’s started. 

[LGTL]

8 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Les is fucking shit - Tonali just ran straight past him for the third whilst he pointed at him. It’s no coincidence we’ve conceded 5, 3 and 3 in the last 3 games he’s started. 

I agree. He’s a fucking awful player and I’d have him nowhere near the squad. Lazy as shit too.

Edited Saturday at 20:02 by LGTL

[Whitey Grandad]

24 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) Across all jobs people who are more competent at tasks can often do them quicker than others doing the same task. In the case of match officials, less pondering over decisions. Might not be a huge difference in time, but having a higher % of correct calls benefits the sport.

2) Because hiring the best in the world at a task leads to more accurate decisions vs only the best from one country. People who are better at their job are more accurate at that job. Hardly a controversial statement!

As controversial as any statement.

With VAR the time taken is not “pondering over decisions. It’s in try to get the technology set up so as to take those decisions and that is the same no matter who is making them. On the actual pitch decisions are taken almost instantly and are no less accurate than those of VAR.

I have consistently maintained that the view on TV is distorted and less precise than that of someone who sees things close up and live. I have seen nothing to change my point of view.

[Whitey Grandad]

19 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Another ghastly defeat, lots of dejected people walking away this evening.

Just relegate us now shouted someone near us. I agree please just make it stop.

Newcastle simply played effective give and go tactics against our lumbering midfield. First goal Ugochukwa totally lost his man. He was so slow reacting.

Ridiculous long wait for VAR. I can accept a soft penalty and it was very soft, but why drag it out. Just ruins the game. Similar with the offside, if it isn't clear then go immediately with the refs decision.

Fernandes as usual a cut above. I thought Bree and Bendarek stuck at it but the rest just too easily out fought and out thought.

Always a bad sign when the players repeatedly pass backwards.

Just once, some day, I  would love the referee to say to VAR “This is taking far too long, you’ve had enough time, I’m going to go with our original decision”.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

Do you honestly think we would’ve held on to that lead if the pen wasn’t given?  Newcastle passed through us with ease and clearly took their foot of the gas second half.  They also hit the post twice. There was absolutely no scenario where we were not losing that. 

Maybe not, but we should have had the chance to find out.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Just once, some day, I  would love the referee to say to VAR “This is taking far too long, you’ve had enough time, I’m going to go with our original decision”.

Yes, "clear and obvious" went out the window a long time ago.

Must say, those who thought Les had a good game saw something in him that I didn't. Even before our first goal, he had his pocket picked so easily that they should have been one up. 

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

Thought Fernandes & Lesley were both outstanding today - only positives I could see

and KWP

[Nieldy]

54 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

Back from the game and can't bear to read through 15 pages of hurt , so sorry if someone has already posted this but      .....

Anyone else feel that Walker-Peters was saying goodbye as he came to the crowd at the end?

I thought that at the end of the forest game last sunday.

[LeBizzier69]

50 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Just once, some day, I  would love the referee to say to VAR “This is taking far too long, you’ve had enough time, I’m going to go with our original decision”.

I’d like them just once to go to the screen and say they’re happy with their original decision.

[S-Clarke]

I feel totally lost with this team, even more so than our season under Wotte and co. It was pretty miserable but it still felt like football and there was 'something' to hope for.

This is just shit, the entire place just feels dead. The players use us as a temp stop over, so we never have a chance of building a team anymore. I don't know what the future holds.

There's no way we compete in the Championship next season, no matter what anyone says. The club will take some time to recover from the absolute shambles of having a 'season off' of professional football. I see us heading into Stoke and Swansea territory at lightning speed and becoming an absolutley nothing Championship side.

Edited Saturday at 21:01 by S-Clarke

[Lighthouse]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I feel totally lost with this team, even more so than our season under Wotte and co. It was pretty miserable but it still felt authentic.

This is just shit, the entire place just feels dead. The players use us as a temp stop over, so we never have a chance of building a team anymore. I don't know what the future holds.

There's no way we compete in the Championship next season, no matter what anyone says. The club will take some time to recover from the absolute shambles of having a 'season off' of professional football. I see us heading into Stoke and Swansea territory at lightning speed and becoming an absolutely nothing Championship side.

People said that last time when we really weren’t much better than this, and neither were Sheff Utd last season. If we get the appointment right in summer, he will have plenty of decent Championship players who are very unlikely to receive better offers.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

People said that last time when we really weren’t much better than this, and neither were Sheff Utd last season. If we get the appointment right in summer, he will have plenty of decent Championship players who are very unlikely to receive better offers.

Also last time we went down we'd just appointed a DoF (Wilcox) and feel we need a decent one in place asap. 

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I feel totally lost with this team, even more so than our season under Wotte and co. It was pretty miserable but it still felt like football and there was 'something' to hope for.

This is just shit, the entire place just feels dead. The players use us as a temp stop over, so we never have a chance of building a team anymore. I don't know what the future holds.

There's no way we compete in the Championship next season, no matter what anyone says. The club will take some time to recover from the absolute shambles of having a 'season off' of professional football. I see us heading into Stoke and Swansea territory at lightning speed and becoming an absolutley nothing Championship side.

If it’s even that good next season - could drop down the divisions rapidly without a new CEO, DoF, Manager, and 12-15 first team quality players who at least keep fit, have basic body strength, run, tackle and look in a forwards direction. Definitely going down again if Gavin Fucking Bazanu is back in goal.

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

People said that last time when we really weren’t much better than this, and neither were Sheff Utd last season. If we get the appointment right in summer, he will have plenty of decent Championship players who are very unlikely to receive better offers.

Last time we were miles better than this outfit. We have played 23 games and have 6 points. The worst ever at this stage. We will be the worst ever PL team.

That is a huge hangover, losing every week doesn't just 'vanish' from a players mind with a change of manager in the summer. I'll be really surprised if it's anything other than a big old slog next season. I don't think you can underestimate what a season like this can do to players, coaches, clubs etc. 

How we went down last time and how Sheff U went down are different stories. We won't even get near 20 points.

Edited Saturday at 21:10 by S-Clarke

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

If it’s even that good next season - could drop down the divisions rapidly without a new CEO, DoF, Manager, and 12-15 first team quality players who at least keep fit, have basic body strength, run, tackle and look in a forwards direction. Definitely going down again if Gavin Fucking Bazanu is back in goal.

I’ve no idea why you would post such hysterical nonsense, particularly about Bazunu. You don’t rate him, fine, but constantly talking about how we will definitely get relegated with him, when we literate got promoted with him playing 90% of our games last time, just makes you look weird.

We have plenty of good Championship players and don’t seem to be in any immediate financial peril, so there’s no reason at all why we can’t fight for promotion like we did last time.

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Last time we were miles better than this outfit. We have played 23 games and have 6 points. The worst ever at this stage. We will be the worst ever PL team.

That is a huge hangover, losing every week doesn't just 'vanish' from a players mind with a change of manager in the summer. I'll be really surprised if it's anything other than a big old slog next season. I don't think you can underestimate what a season like this can do to players, coaches, clubs etc. 

How we went down last time and how Sheff U went down are different stories. We won't even get near 20 points.

Both teams were still absolutely awful and losing every week. Whether we get 10 points or 16 this season really doesn’t matter that much in the grand scheme of things. In summer we could well have a new manager, half a dozen new faces and preseason to prepare. We’ll be playing much worse teams next season, there’s no reason at all we can’t be in the promotion hunt. Luton did much better than Sheff Utd last season and this year fortunes are completely reversed.

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I have consistently maintained that the view on TV is distorted and less precise than that of someone who sees things close up and live. I have seen nothing to change my point of view.

And you have consistently been wrong about it. I can’t stand VAR but you simply cannot say with any accuracy that it is less precise than one human on the pitch. VAR uses multiple cameras to view and gets multiple replays. Someone who sees it up close gets one chance, and may get a limited angle.

Youve got a completely skewed version on many things but this is the most bizarre of all.

 

Edited Saturday at 21:25 by The Kraken

[Gloucester Saint]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’ve no idea why you would post such hysterical nonsense, particularly about Bazunu. You don’t rate him, fine, but constantly talking about how we will definitely get relegated with him, when we literate got promoted with him playing 90% of our games last time, just makes you look weird.

We have plenty of good Championship players and don’t seem to be in any immediate financial peril, so there’s no reason at all why we can’t fight for promotion like we did last time.

It’s about momentum. Sheff Utd had a better run in the latter part of last season with a manager and legendary former player they had a connection with. I simply cannot see where the next point is coming from this season and the fanbase is the most apathetic I’ve ever seen. 

As for Bazanu, he conceded most of the 60 goals plus last season behind defenders like KWP, Bednarek (very good Champ defender) and THB. Given two of those will likely leave in the summer, I cannot see his record improving. To underscore the figures further, not emotion, he’s been bottom on the PL and Champ shot saving stats two years in a row.

He can’t save low shots (watch Ipswich game again), doesn’t claim crosses, gets bullied at corners and anything hard and central gets pushed back in front of him. Headers down are another standout weakness (see Brighton home). Supposedly his superior kicking makes up for a total absence of goalkeeping talent in kids football but I can only say at least that’s one thing he does better than Alex McCarthy at senior level. Ederson he ain’t as a sweeper keeper.

As back up if we must, OK, but as first choice, with a poorer defence than last time he will concede tonnes.

Edited Saturday at 21:26 by Gloucester Saint

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It’s about momentum. Sheff Utd had a better run in the latter part of last season with a manager and legendary former player they had a connection with. I simply cannot see where the next point is coming from this season and the fanbase is the most apathetic I’ve ever seen.

Yeah, they really laid the foundations for promotion.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Both teams were still absolutely awful and losing every week. Whether we get 10 points or 16 this season really doesn’t matter that much in the grand scheme of things. In summer we could well have a new manager, half a dozen new faces and preseason to prepare. We’ll be playing much worse teams next season, there’s no reason at all we can’t be in the promotion hunt. Luton did much better than Sheff Utd last season and this year fortunes are completely reversed.

For Luton, being in the PL in the first place was a massive bonus. Not surprised they had a hangover and Barkley was immense for them. The expectation at SFC is very different, it’s an established PL set up bar the actual football. S-Clarke is right, the club would be like a soiled bed by May, all the top positions at the club would need changing.

[Fabrice29]

36 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

I’d like them just once to go to the screen and say they’re happy with their original decision.

Happened last week I think. Not for the first time either.

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Yeah, they really laid the foundations for promotion.

 

Still more competitive than we’ve been - compare our result at Bournemouth - had someone in charge who knows the club inside out and the fans trust.

Juric is in an impossible position - dreadful squad Rasmus and Martin built unsuited to the league, unfit, and very difficult to build that connection. The people SR have appointed just do not have any credibility with the fanbase and media like Wilder has there in terms of credit in the bank.

[Bakovnetski]

2 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Cameron Archer's 'performance' after coming on was a disgrace.

He may be out of favour but, if so, he should run himself into the ground when he comes on. Just drifted most of the time. This must be reflected in training is all I can think. 

[Badger]

55 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

I’d like them just once to go to the screen and say they’re happy with their original decision.

During a rugby match the other week the ref was wired up and his conversations with those monitoring the match was relayed to the crowd. 
Might be interesting to eaves drop, but we all know the crowd reaction

[Lighthouse]

19 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Still more competitive than we’ve been - compare our result at Bournemouth - had someone in charge who knows the club inside out and the fans trust.

Juric is in an impossible position - dreadful squad Rasmus and Martin built unsuited to the league, unfit, and very difficult to build that connection. The people SR have appointed just do not have any credibility with the fanbase and media like Wilder has there in terms of credit in the bank.

They were absolute garbage, lost their last 7 PL games and took 3 points from their last 14 games, which is basically the form we had under Martin. Trying to use a home draw with Bournemouth last March as evidence of an upswing in momentum for this season is just laughable.

Teams in the PL are good, teams in the Championship are crap, it really is that simple.

[Winnersaint]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I feel totally lost with this team, even more so than our season under Wotte and co. It was pretty miserable but it still felt like football and there was 'something' to hope for.

This is just shit, the entire place just feels dead. The players use us as a temp stop over, so we never have a chance of building a team anymore. I don't know what the future holds.

There's no way we compete in the Championship next season, no matter what anyone says. The club will take some time to recover from the absolute shambles of having a 'season off' of professional football. I see us heading into Stoke and Swansea territory at lightning speed and becoming an absolutley nothing Championship side.

Put on and pull up your big boy pants!

[LeBizzier69]

27 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Happened last week I think. Not for the first time either.

Interesting, I don’t ever recall them going to the monitor and saying they’re happy with their original decision. Obviously not paying enough attention.

[Whitey Grandad]

34 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

And you have consistently been wrong about it. I can’t stand VAR but you simply cannot say with any accuracy that it is less precise than one human on the pitch. VAR uses multiple cameras to view and gets multiple replays. Someone who sees it up close gets one chance, and may get a limited angle.

Youve got a completely skewed version on many things but this is the most bizarre of all.

 

I assume that you’ve never refereed a game yourself? Nor ever been involved in TV signal processing?t the resolution of a TV picture is several orders worse than a human eye, and a referee has two of them and sees everything in 3 dimensions.

The projection of the field of play onto a flat screen is not exact and depends on the type of lens used together with other factors. Those straight lines that you see on the TV are not straight projections from what is on the pitch.

The only thing that is completely skewed here is the illusion that TV gives you. It may seem bizarre to you if you don’t understand any of these factors.

[Badger]

It’s been said several times in here this season and before but I wish our lot would get at the ref more often to challenge their decisions.
 

Case in point today was their second goal where it appeared that Tall Paul was fouled in the build up. Crowd called for it, I think he and a couple of players appealed. But once they scored it was meekly accepted. 

Compare this with Newcastle appealing both the penalty and our ‘goal’. 
 

Obviously it has to be done within the rules, but you are left to wonder if any of them really give a shit. 

[Whitey Grandad]

41 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It’s about momentum. Sheff Utd had a better run in the latter part of last season with a manager and legendary former player they had a connection with. I simply cannot see where the next point is coming from this season and the fanbase is the most apathetic I’ve ever seen. 

As for Bazanu, he conceded most of the 60 goals plus last season behind defenders like KWP, Bednarek (very good Champ defender) and THB. Given two of those will likely leave in the summer, I cannot see his record improving. To underscore the figures further, not emotion, he’s been bottom on the PL and Champ shot saving stats two years in a row.

He can’t save low shots (watch Ipswich game again), doesn’t claim crosses, gets bullied at corners and anything hard and central gets pushed back in front of him. Headers down are another standout weakness (see Brighton home). Supposedly his superior kicking makes up for a total absence of goalkeeping talent in kids football but I can only say at least that’s one thing he does better than Alex McCarthy at senior level. Ederson he ain’t as a sweeper keeper.

As back up if we must, OK, but as first choice, with a poorer defence than last time he will concede tonnes.

Bednarek was a cause of many of those goals.

[StrangelyBrown]

3 hours ago, captainchris said:

A fair summary. It is true to say that most football managers cannot see what is in front them and despite what some fans seem to think football is not some dark art that only ‘football people’ understand. This is why Cortese was so good. Cortese could cut through the crap and realise who had genuine football understanding and who would be pretenders.

Juric is doing his best but still he needs to adjust his thinking to compensate for what we don’t have and look further than those that continue not to perform and still are picked every week. 
Football is stuck in a time warp of doing the same thing over and over with no progressive thinking and problem solving. 
Look for another Cortese, the aggression, assertive thinking and progressive knowledgeable management which is missing has to filter down from the top. In our club there appears to be no accountability and that is true for players right up to the CEO.

I like Juric but he needs to justify his decisions for he, like other managers before him clearly needs some guidance and reporting structure to justify everything he does, particularly if we are struggling….

Our club is blowing in the wilderness with no apparent culpability. Meanwhile let’s continue with the same shit every single day expecting a different result….

Mid term report:

No leadership

No structure

No culpability

Gold plated players with no right to their status. 
 

 

 

 

Completely agree. A single manager failing is probably the manager's fault. Continued failure of manager after manager is a fundamental problem further up the chain - until the club has the right leadership and structure we will continue to piss money away on substandard players and regardless of the capability of a manager or the tactics played we will continue to underachieve.

Fortunately the premier league doesn't really live up to the hype so for me it isn't really the be all and end all. It seems to me the further from the top the less the money spoils the game and the more authentic the experience is.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Interesting, I don’t ever recall them going to the monitor and saying they’re happy with their original decision. Obviously not paying enough attention.

It does happen but not very often. It takes balls and an experienced referee. A junior or fresh one will feel under pressure to make the decision that VAR have recommended.

And replays should never be shown in slow motion in my view. It distorts reality. There is also the psychological aspect that the more times you see an event the more you will convince yourself that an action must have been deliberate.

[influx]

I blame working from home.  Bring them back into the office asap. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, influx said:

I blame working from home.  Bring them back into the office asap. 

I call it shirking from home.

[Badger]

52 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Juric is in an impossible position - dreadful squad Rasmus and Martin built unsuited to the league, unfit, and very difficult to build that connection. The people SR have appointed just do not have any credibility with the fanbase and media like Wilder has there in terms of credit in the bank.

Agree, especially about Juric and what he’s got to select from.

18 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Completely agree. A single manager failing is probably the manager's fault. Continued failure of manager after manager is a fundamental problem further up the chain - until the club has the right leadership and structure we will continue to piss money away on substandard players and regardless of the capability of a manager or the tactics played we will continue to underachieve.

Fortunately the premier league doesn't really live up to the hype so for me it isn't really the be all and end all. It seems to me the further from the top the less the money spoils the game and the more authentic the experience is.

This is it for me as well. Appointments have been dreadful.

Many blame Rasmus, possibly Kraft who seems to have been the one to take the blame and be moved on. Can only hope Dragan’s revamp puts the right people in place.