OttawaSaint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Just now, tdmickey3 said: Ffs are you still banging on It's hilarious. Dog with a bone! 2
Baird of the land Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Once again some positives to take from that late rally. Lovely to see TP score from a well delivered corner and help set up the 1st with a knock down from a free kick. If we can just get better at delivering those balls from open play. But we're not going to get anything only playing for part of the game. That 1st half was dreadful. Does feel that Les should play regardless of how fit he is, as we look different with him in the middle. Really hoping we can get charles into that midfield too once he's back. Downes looks a shadow of the player he looked like in Russ' set up. You can completely understand why West Ham were happy to sell him. Hopefully that's the last we see of A.Armstrong for a while. 8
BotleySaint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 We deserved the equaliser. I hope it injects a tiny bit of belief in the players as it's Newcastle next..... 1
John Boy Saint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Just now, Chez said: KWP played again and he did a lot of running. Fernandes too. Don't understand that decision. They’ve pretty much been in and playing since August making them more 90 minute match conditioned.
stknowle Posted January 19 Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: Les didn't looked fatigued at the end when he ran back 50 yards to disposses Murillo. That was the equally unfatigued Sully TBF.
trousers Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Chez said: KWP played again and he did a lot of running. Fernandes too. Don't understand that decision. Assume because both KWP and Fernandes are 'match fit' given they've played a lot of football this season, whereas Sully (and Les) hasn't...? 2
Harry_SFC Posted January 19 Posted January 19 The team is surely pretty obvious now moving forward. Get KWP back on the right. Manning on the left. Les, Aribo and Fernandes in the middle. Sulemena playing off Onuachu or Archer. 10
Suhari Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Just now, Baird of the land said: Once again some positives to take from that late rally. Lovely to see TP score from a well delivered corner and help set up the 1st with a knock down from a free kick. If we can just get better at delivering those balls from open play. But we're not going to get anything only playing for part of the game. That 1st half was dreadful. Does feel that Les should play regardless of how fit he is, as we look different with him in the middle. Really hoping we can get charles into that midfield too once he's back. Downes looks a shadow of the player he looked like in Russ' set up. You can completely understand why West Ham were happy to sell him. Hopefully that's the last we see of A.Armstrong for a while. Was he actually on the pitch? 1
Saint1963 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 15 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said: Why? I didn't wish cancer on him or make fun of cancer sufferers. If he had bandy legs and I said that he looks like he has Ricketts would I have to apologize? Fuck off 1
Harry_SFC Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 minute ago, stknowle said: That was the equally unfatigued Sully TBF. My bad. Guess the point still stands then 😂 1
AlexLaw76 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 We are worse as a team with sugawara in it, and probably Armstrong and Archer 6
ButtikonSaint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 (edited) Abject first half, battling second... Pity that once again we can't have a consistent 90 mins. Just shows that AA and to a lesser extend CA and Downes are just not physically built to be premiership starters (especially in a struggling team). At that level, you need a combination of speed, strength, stamina and skill. Sulemana, Les and TP did well. Aribo as quarter-back like defensive midfielder isn't a bad idea. Manning and KWP in their proper position makes a different. Unfortunately, I reckon it will take Juric another month or two to get the team playing well for 90mins... If only Edited January 19 by ButtikonSaint 1
trousers Posted January 19 Posted January 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: Les didn't looked fatigued at the end when he ran back 50 yards to disposses Murillo. Well, exactly, that's the point being made isn't it? He might only have been up to playing, say, 30 minutes of high intensity premier league football today, hence not being chosen for the starting 11? Edited January 19 by trousers
Holmes_and_Watson Posted January 19 Posted January 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said: It's hilarious. Dog with a bone! The expression has recently been updated to "A pedant with a keyboard" SaintsWeb gets cited in the references for the update, for some reason. 🙂 Edited January 19 by Holmes_and_Watson 2
Fabrice29 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Team is full of players who look better the less they play. 1
Charlie Wayman Posted January 19 Posted January 19 We are running out of games to improve much more. The main question from now on is whether Juric will stay to rebuild a team that will make a better fist of it in 2026/27.
macca155 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Once Sulemana and Ugochukwa came on, the best Saints team was on the pitch. Cue a late 2nd half the same as the 1st half against Utd. Clearly they can be competitive but need reinforcements, as the squad simply cannot sustain the same level of football. Glad we had something to raise our spirits at the end. 7
Harry_SFC Posted January 19 Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, trousers said: Well, exactly, that's the point being made isn't it? He might only have been up to playing, say, 30 minutes of high intensity premier league football today, hence not being chosen for the starting 11? Tbh the way Downes is playing, even a fatigued Ugochukwu would've been an upgrade. 1
Holmes_and_Watson Posted January 19 Posted January 19 I only caught the second half. It took Bedders trying to get out of the way of a shot, and it going in for us to do much of anything, as well as more aggressive subs. in the end, it's another defeat to add to the pile. Doing it in spells isn;t worth anything on the points tally. Pluses were Sule tracking back. TP got a good delivery and got his first goal for us. He got into at least a couple of decent positions too. Sadly, our attack is so disjointed we stumble onto chances more than create them. Aribo and Les put in some decent runs. Will got into some space to get the ball forward. I didn;t see his performance the other night. He didn;t do massive amounts today, but was always there to receive and pass, which is what he's best at. I'll read the comments on the first half, and no doubt get a very different picture to the side that nearly got a draw, yet managed not to.
saintant Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Forest fans forum is funny. They're squealing that we played too rough so maybe Ivan is beginning to get his point across. Clearly their fans wanted us to roll over meekly but Juric must have read the riot act at half time and threatened a few outside if they didn't show more aggression 🙂 2
sfc4prem Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Downes is proving himself to be so limited. Two of their goals running centrally towards our goal with edge of the box finishes. Some nice play up top today, which is reassuring. TP was dominant - at one point he caressed the ball out of the sky with a soft control after Ramsdale launched it long. Supreme skill and calmness of mind - especially as he has a couple of Forest players around him. Would've been nice to score a third but we did have some luck on our side today, too.
saintant Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Just now, Harry_SFC said: Tbh the way Downes is playing, even a fatigued Ugochukwu would've been an upgrade. Wouldn't pick Downes again unless injuries mean we have to. Head's and heart not in the fight now. 1
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 14 minutes ago, obelisk said: If Bedders header had gone in might Saints have got a 4th? Took too long to get enough crosses in at the end though. The result might be the same but the football has been a lot more entertaining since Juric took over. That clearance off the line was phenomenal. 3-3 would have been a fantastic result. Still was to see Archer playing off TP, and please can we finally give up on AA. 3
trousers Posted January 19 Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: Tbh the way Downes is playing, even a fatigued Ugochukwu would've been an upgrade. Fair point! 1
Harry_SFC Posted January 19 Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, saintant said: Wouldn't pick Downes again unless injuries mean we have to. Head's and heart not in the fight now. Since his best buddy was sacked? 2
Lord Duckhunter Posted January 19 Posted January 19 It’s not the 1970’s the manager or magic sponge man doesn’t decide whether players are fatigued, there’s sports science, with red zones, data, algorithms around certain indicators, and other specialist pony. The fact Suly & Les haven’t played many minutes will make them different from KWP & MF. At least it gave Ivan another opportunity to see how fucking useless AA is and how over rated Downes is. The difference when they and Archer went off was night & day. Glad for Tall Paul, finally getting that monkey off his back. Bree is incredibly average, but again he did ok and is playing at his maximum. Fair play to Manning as well, made a difference. THB is starting to wind me up, he isn’t as good as he seems to think, and is starting to play to the audience by throwing his arms around. “look how hard I’m trying”. MF decent again, KWP good going forward, not so great defensively. Aribo awful for 80, last 10 he did well. 3
saintant Posted January 19 Posted January 19 One Forest fan saying 'Can we get that big fucker for our bench ' 🙂 2
stknowle Posted January 19 Posted January 19 10 minutes ago, saintant said: One Forest fan saying 'Can we get that big fucker for our bench ' 🙂 Is this the first line of a reimagining of ‘One man went to mow’? 1
Morse Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Showed a bit of heart second half, that makes that far off dream of reaching twelve points seem possible.
Mixedkebab Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Of todays starting XI Ramsdale- best we can hope for KWP -play him on the fucking right and he’s good Bree- tries but championship standard Bednarek- want to finally get shot of this bang average fucker THB- average PL CB short on confidence but should improve if the players in front of him do Sugawara- Not good enough, clumsy defensively Downes- disgusting performance and generally not up to it- get rid Aribo- can look good but too patchy and not wholehearted enough, needs to move on Fernandes- bright light of the season, hope we keep him Armstrong- suppose we have to keep him for his goals last season but useless until August Archer- seems a nothing player to me, but never had a proper run so not writing him off yet Of the subs, Les and Sulemana need to be starting as often as possible now. Manning should start to enable KWP to play right Onuachu is not very good but doubt we can sign a better aerial threat Smallbone- sell If possible 1
badgerx16 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 28 minutes ago, Convict Colony said: I saw Tall Paul's first goal for us. Only needs a couple more to be our leading scorer. 2
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 33 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said: They’ve pretty much been in and playing since August making them more 90 minute match conditioned. OK, but Les didn't play the full game on Thursday and could have been subbed today. Sulemana could also have been subbed off. The game was over before they got on the pitch.
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 32 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: We are worse as a team with sugawara in it, and probably Armstrong and Archer Not really seen him until the last two games in which he was poor. He's lightweight, keeps falling over and playing for fouls and technically not quite good enough. His touch keeps letting him down. I don't know if that's the real him, but if it is, we have not replaced KWP. Perhaps he needs more time to settle. He does get forward quite well and puts a good cross in, bit you can't lose the ball in dangerous areas like he does and get away with it in the Prem. 1
OneMrsWallace Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Didn't manage to follow the game today. Did Forest ease off second half or did we play better than them?
Harry_SFC Posted January 19 Posted January 19 I think after the last two games Juric has a good idea of who starts moving forwards. Smallbone, Downes, Armstrong have all played themselves out of contention. 4
east-stand-nic Posted January 19 Posted January 19 36 minutes ago, ButtikonSaint said: Abject first half, battling second... Pity that once again we can't have a consistent 90 mins. Just shows that AA and to a lesser extend CA and Downes are just not physically built to be premiership starters (especially in a struggling team). At that level, you need a combination of speed, strength, stamina and skill. Sulemana, Les and TP did well. Aribo as quarter-back like defensive midfielder isn't a bad idea. Manning and KWP in their proper position makes a different. Unfortunately, I reckon it will take Juric another month or two to get the team playing well for 90mins... If only is it my imagination or have we been like this for many years? One half goof, on half terrible?
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 35 minutes ago, trousers said: Well, exactly, that's the point being made isn't it? He might only have been up to playing, say, 30 minutes of high intensity premier league football today, hence not being chosen for the starting 11? Does it really take a young proper athlete like him 3 days to recover from 83 minutes of a Prem game?
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 27 minutes ago, saintant said: Wouldn't pick Downes again unless injuries mean we have to. Head's and heart not in the fight now. He was clattering into Forest players in the first half yet you are saying his heart is not in it? I wouldn't pick him right now too, but that's because he is not playing well and is doing the wrong things - not because he isn't trying or is up for the fight. 3
Matthew Le God Posted January 19 Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Chez said: Does it really take a young proper athlete like him 3 days to recover from 83 minutes of a Prem game? Yes The club's sport science team will know his condition 2
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 45 minutes ago, BotleySaint said: We deserved the equaliser. Not sure that's true. We deserved a point or more on Thursday, but by and large we were poor today. A late rally helped by a load injuries to their better players was good to see, but we got what we deserved overall. 3
derry Posted January 19 Posted January 19 The first half was reminiscent of RM, The second goal was typical of Pre - Juric period. As was the third goal on Thursday. We are suffering from the early season and the manager unable to differentiate between the useless and the useful. We were better with four at the back and a target man up field. Bednarek needs to stop tippy tappy crap in our own half. Sugawara and Bree doesn't work on the right also KWP on the left. Downes was the worst I've seen him. Archer and Armstrong were hopeless. We've got to use the assets we've got. KWP on the right, Bednarek, THB, Ugochukwu, Aribo, Fernandes, Onuachu and Sulemana. We blew the first half and the match with the starting lineup. Stick Onuachu up front with Sulemana and maybe Archer and feed them with crosses and early through balls. Cut out the playing it out from the back. Play long to Onuachu it rattles the opposition. 7
CanadaSaint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 I’m trying to get a bigger picture “read” on the rollercoaster ride of the last two games. It seems to me that we’re in the mental transition phase between Martin’s painfully slow, possession based approach and a more aggressive style focused on getting the ball forward earlier. But the Russball mentality is so deeply ingrained that it’s almost instinctive. One of its most frustrating characteristics shows in the passing – even simple passes to open players. Instead of playing the ball ahead of the target, allowing us to maintain forward momentum, we still play it to feet and often even behind the target. Aribo does it a lot, but he’s far from the only one. Sure, some of it is an ability thing but it’s just as much a mentality thing. When we revert to the Russball instinct we look awful but when we make the mental shift from a possession focus to a penetration focus we look far better. Same players but totally different mindset, and the more creative forces like Dibling, Sulemana and Fernandes get a chance to show their skills. 7
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Yes The club's sport science team will know his condition Sulemena looked very tired at end of united game, so I can live with that decision, but Les wasn't out on his feet and hasn't had injuries, so what about him? How does a sports science actually evaluate the health of player. I hear lots of mentions of red line or red flags or whatever, but how do you actually test (what is the test) to get a red flag that suggests they might pull a muscle if they are played again?
SWLondon Saint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, Chez said: Not really seen him until the last two games in which he was poor. He's lightweight, keeps falling over and playing for fouls and technically not quite good enough. His touch keeps letting him down. I don't know if that's the real him, but if it is, we have not replaced KWP. Perhaps he needs more time to settle. He does get forward quite well and puts a good cross in, bit you can't lose the ball in dangerous areas like he does and get away with it in the Prem. Sugawara's confidence is shot and that'll have affected his first touch. He's made several goal-conceding errors this season so he's probably second guessing himself all the time which is a sure way to guarantee even more mistakes. I also think he needs more time to settle as the Dutch league is much less physical. We better hope he improves anyway as no-one's buying him after this season so we're stuck with him! Archer I feel similar about re: confidence, he's clearly an intuitive / playing on the shoulder run and hit it kind of striker, so I think he's just gotten lost this season under RM and needs to get it out of his system. He's also still young and could improve a lot. I expect us to keep him next season and he'll score a ton in the Champ as he has before. Come on, his goal against Arsenal was superb and showed what he can do. 1
Lighthouse Posted January 19 Author Posted January 19 Pleased for TP to finally get off the mark, hopefully that gives him a bit of belief to maybe pop up with a couple more this season. The negatives though; we were dreadful first half and the game was all but over after 41 minutes. Bednarek's goal was an absolute fluke and Ramsdale has had an absolute mare. The disallowed goal was a howler and he can't be conceding the three he did at this level. Hopefully the Newcastle game is more second half than first. 2
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, derry said: The first half was reminiscent of RM, The second goal was typical of Pre - Juric period. As was the third goal on Thursday. We are suffering from the early season and the manager unable to differentiate between the useless and the useful. We were better with four at the back and a target man up field. Bednarek needs to stop tippy tappy crap in our own half. Sugawara and Bree doesn't work on the right also KWP on the left. Downes was the worst I've seen him. Archer and Armstrong were hopeless. We've got to use the assets we've got. KWP on the right, Bednarek, THB, Ugochukwu, Aribo, Fernandes, Onuachu and Sulemana. We blew the first half and the match with the starting lineup. Stick Onuachu up front with Sulemana and maybe Archer and feed them with crosses and early through balls. Cut out the playing it out from the back. Play long to Onuachu it rattles the opposition. when we are passing it to central midfielders that then pass straight back to CBs or are passing between CBs, opponents go all in with the press and we are in trouble. We haven't done it a lot recently, with Les, Aribo and Fernandes always looking to be on the half turn, but whenever we do, we look terrible. 2
Fabrice29 Posted January 19 Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said: I’m trying to get a bigger picture “read” on the rollercoaster ride of the last two games. It seems to me that we’re in the mental transition phase between Martin’s painfully slow, possession based approach and a more aggressive style focused on getting the ball forward earlier. But the Russball mentality is so deeply ingrained that it’s almost instinctive. One of its most frustrating characteristics shows in the passing – even simple passes to open players. Instead of playing the ball ahead of the target, allowing us to maintain forward momentum, we still play it to feet and often even behind the target. Aribo does it a lot, but he’s far from the only one. Sure, some of it is an ability thing but it’s just as much a mentality thing. When we revert to the Russball instinct we look awful but when we make the mental shift from a possession focus to a penetration focus we look far better. Same players but totally different mindset, and the more creative forces like Dibling, Sulemana and Fernandes get a chance to show their skills. You can blame previous manager and his style all you like but the ‘bigger read’ is there is a core group of players here that over two seasons of the PL have been consistently finding ways to lose football matches at this level, whatever tactics they are asked to play. 2
Chez Posted January 19 Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said: But the Russball mentality is so deeply ingrained that it’s almost instinctive. I think that is fair. It's Downes natural game and he needs to adjust. I hope he can. Aribo, Fernandes and Les seem to be more aligned with what Juric is after. 3
Matthew Le God Posted January 19 Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Chez said: Sulemena looked very tired at end of united game, so I can live with that decision, but Les wasn't out on his feet and hasn't had injuries, so what about him? How does a sports science actually evaluate the health of player. I hear lots of mentions of red line or red flags or whatever, but how do you actually test (what is the test) to get a red flag that suggests they might pull a muscle if they are played again? VO2 max tests Heart rate monitoring Blood biomarkers Lactate Threshold Testing Electromyography Functional Movement Screen Load Monitoring 1
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