Johannes Spors

[Saint86]

6 hours ago, Oisin said:

For all the talk of laying all the blame at Kraft and cutting Rasmus some slack, wasn’t it Rasmus who personally owned the pursuit of Nathan Jones and our January 2023 transfer window? More than anything it was these two debacles that caused our relegation and current plight.

This season has been a shit-show for sure, but SR have miss-managed us from day 1, when Rasmus was very definitely up to his neck in the decision making.

Hes a self-inflated moron. 

I think the biggest error they've physically made remains sacking ralph. Jones was a dire appointment after the fact, and selles had no chance (and I don't have any ill will towards him). You can add to that the undermining of the coaching set up over the preceeding summer, and ripping up the scouting (and to a lesser extent the academy) setup as well. The January window, when paired with the carnage of the on field and behind the scenes setups, was just the icing on the cake. I always felt like they came in like these footballing hipsters thinking they were the dogs bollocks and could reinvent football. Clearly they couldn't and knew a lot less than they thought they knew.

Since then though rasmus has had his wings clipped and kraft is gone. And as has been said above, they have consistently put money into the club and worked and communicated with the fans. I think there are signs that they (perhaps just soak) are learning on the football front as well. 

All in all, I think that this season will prove to be the Low point of their ownership. Or at least I bloody hope so. Saying that, that optimism puts a a lot of relatively blind faith in spors being good. I don't think there is much point getting toxic towards them - not whilst they are investing and whilst trying to implement positive change at least. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 13:33 by Saint86

[miserableoldgit]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

I think the biggest error they've physically made remains sacking ralph. Jones was a dire appointment after the fact, and selles had no chance (and I don't have any ill will towards him). You can add to that the undermining of the coaching set up over the preceeding summer, and ripping up the scouting (and to a lesser extent the academy) setup as well. The January window, when paired with the carnage of the on field and behind the scenes setups, was just the icing on the cake. I always felt like they came in like these footballing hipsters thinking they were the dogs bollocks and could reinvent football. Clearly they couldn't and knew a lot less than they thought they knew.

Since then though rasmus has had his wings clipped and kraft is gone. And as has been said above, they have consistently put money into the club and worked and communicated with the fans. I think there are signs that they (perhaps just soak) are learning on the football front as well. 

All in all, I think that this season will prove to be the Low point of their ownership. Or at least I bloody hope so. Saying that, that optimism puts a a lot of relatively blind faith in spors being good. I don't think there is much point getting toxic towards them - not whilst they are investing and whilst trying to implement positive change at least. 

 

Totally agree. Whilst Ralph looked beaten down at the end of his tenure, and probably had to go, I still believe that if he had been given the right support (especially if he had been given the striker that we needed after Ings left), the last two years would have been different. Ralph is a good manager and was a good fit for us.

[saintant]

On 01/03/2025 at 20:21, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I'm not here to defend Rasmus. Undoubtedly he has made mistakes (and then some). But I was at Staplewood a couple of weeks ago and was introduced to him. He was very polite and friendly. Means nothing I hear you say and fair enough. Later when I was watching the first team train he was there also watching intently. It was pointed out to me that - percentage wise - he has invested more of his personal wealth than anyone else in SR. Again so what. But its worth considering that while his errors have led to us all feeling anger and pain he has a lot of his personal wealth wrapped up in our future and when it goes pear shaped - as it is currently doing - then he is not exactly popping champagne corks.

I've given all this some thought and I still think as investors or owners go, SR are on the face of it genuine and committed. They have certainly screwed up big time by their contorted philosophy, but that has hurt them financially and reputation-wise as well. They are not going anywhere so, like it or not, its still in our interest to back them, even though they have no right to request our loyalty. We have no other choice at the end off the day, they are our club's owners. I wish they would communicate more frequently and more openly (and while I was there I did say that to them). Their heart is still in it, there's a lot of work going on off the field to increase our revenue which is getting unfair criticism owing to the poor showing on the pitch. But it is bringing in revenue and no one else has done it. I think they will bring a lot of positive things to the city in general, fingers crossed.

This season is undoubtedly the worst in our history (albeit in the top flight) but their desire to right things is genuine and they are still highly motivated. I think they should be given the chance to make amends. Probably going to be shot down in flames for this post and be asked how much I have been paid but in my opinion its time for us all to take a deep breath and keep the faith for a while longer. Thanks for reading this.

Fine words butter no parsnips I'm afraid.  They have a massive amount to do even for us to treat them with the lowest level of credibility. Everything they do is a disaster as proved by what is happening on the pitch which is where they should be judged.

[Fabrice29]

10 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Totally agree. Whilst Ralph looked beaten down at the end of his tenure, and probably had to go, I still believe that if he had been given the right support (especially if he had been given the striker that we needed after Ings left), the last two years would have been different. Ralph is a good manager and was a good fit for us.

We’ve not replaced Ings in terms of quality with hindsight but pretty sure Ralph signed Armstrong didn’t he? It’s not that the support hasn’t been given, it’s just been misplaced.

[miserableoldgit]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

We’ve not replaced Ings in terms of quality with hindsight but pretty sure Ralph signed Armstrong didn’t he? It’s not that the support hasn’t been given, it’s just been misplaced.

This is true....however, whoever decided on Armstrong was taking a gamble (or trying to be "clever") which didn't work.......was that Ralph? Obviously AA is brilliant in the Championship, but is unable to cut it in the Prem. What we needed, although probably couldn't afford, was a Prem quality striker to replace the one we had lost.

[Turkish]

On 01/03/2025 at 20:21, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I'm not here to defend Rasmus. Undoubtedly he has made mistakes (and then some). But I was at Staplewood a couple of weeks ago and was introduced to him. He was very polite and friendly. Means nothing I hear you say and fair enough. Later when I was watching the first team train he was there also watching intently. It was pointed out to me that - percentage wise - he has invested more of his personal wealth than anyone else in SR. Again so what. But its worth considering that while his errors have led to us all feeling anger and pain he has a lot of his personal wealth wrapped up in our future and when it goes pear shaped - as it is currently doing - then he is not exactly popping champagne corks.

I've given all this some thought and I still think as investors or owners go, SR are on the face of it genuine and committed. They have certainly screwed up big time by their contorted philosophy, but that has hurt them financially and reputation-wise as well. They are not going anywhere so, like it or not, its still in our interest to back them, even though they have no right to request our loyalty. We have no other choice at the end off the day, they are our club's owners. I wish they would communicate more frequently and more openly (and while I was there I did say that to them). Their heart is still in it, there's a lot of work going on off the field to increase our revenue which is getting unfair criticism owing to the poor showing on the pitch. But it is bringing in revenue and no one else has done it. I think they will bring a lot of positive things to the city in general, fingers crossed.

This season is undoubtedly the worst in our history (albeit in the top flight) but their desire to right things is genuine and they are still highly motivated. I think they should be given the chance to make amends. Probably going to be shot down in flames for this post and be asked how much I have been paid but in my opinion its time for us all to take a deep breath and keep the faith for a while longer. Thanks for reading this.

have they agreed to stock your books?

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

We’ve not replaced Ings in terms of quality with hindsight but pretty sure Ralph signed Armstrong didn’t he? It’s not that the support hasn’t been given, it’s just been misplaced.

 

2 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

This is true....however, whoever decided on Armstrong was taking a gamble (or trying to be "clever") which didn't work.......was that Ralph? 

I read somewhere, it might even have been an interview with AA, that Ralph wasn't keen on signing him, but sign him we did. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

Totally agree. Whilst Ralph looked beaten down at the end of his tenure, and probably had to go, I still believe that if he had been given the right support (especially if he had been given the striker that we needed after Ings left), the last two years would have been different. Ralph is a good manager and was a good fit for us.

In some respects, there's not much to be gained from harking back to 'if Ralph had been given a striker' type talk, but I genuinely believe he's the best manager fit I've ever seen at this club. With the right support, we could have been playing European football for years on end and he didn't seem to have the ambition to want to go to a bigger club - he wanted to make a smaller club big. Our club. The arrogant SR version 1 completely mismanaged him and made a series of monumental fuck ups.

That stated, I do think we've hit our lowest ebb. SR are learning from their mistakes and we won't be doing a Luton.

[sambosa75]

20 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

This is true....however, whoever decided on Armstrong was taking a gamble (or trying to be "clever") which didn't work.......was that Ralph? Obviously AA is brilliant in the Championship, but is unable to cut it in the Prem. What we needed, although probably couldn't afford, was a Prem quality striker to replace the one we had lost.

Of course we could afford it.  Just 6 months later we spaffed about £40m on Sulemana and Onuachu.

[S-Clarke]

44 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Of course we could afford it.  Just 6 months later we spaffed about £40m on Sulemana and Onuachu.

Wasn't Armstrong signed before Sports Republic, fairly sure he was in 2021. (when we had to watch every penny). I remember we had to sell Target to free up funds for Salisu (i think it was Salisu).

The summer 22/23 and the winter of 23 was when SR put their money in, and that's one thing you can't hold against them. They have put money in, more than we've ever been able to put in at PL level - the scouting has just been horrendous, which is why we are where we are.

I see a lot of fans saying that we're where we are because of a lack of investment, but it couldn't be further from the truth in my eyes. Maybe we still focus on that 15m ballpark too much and fill the squad up with those types, rather than 1 or 2 £30m's, but we have been spending money - just really badly.

Edited Thursday at 13:10 by S-Clarke

[disconnect]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Wasn't Armstrong signed before Sports Republic, fairly sure he was in 2021. (when we had to watch every penny). I remember we had to sell Target to free up funds for Salisu (i think it was Salisu).

The summer 22/23 and the winter of 23 was when SR put their money in, and that's one thing you can't hold against them. They have put money in, more than we've ever been able to put in at PL level - the scouting has just been horrendous, which is why we are where we are.

I see a lot of fans saying that we're where we are because of a lack of investment, but it couldn't be further from the truth in my eyes. Maybe we still focus on that 15m ballpark too much and fill the squad up with those types, rather than 1 or 2 £30m's, but we have been spending money - just really badly.

We've gone Quantity over Quality, with the hope that players like Fernandes, Kayi Sanda, Edwards, Takaoka, Matsuki and Juan would become established premier league stars over the next few years, when we really needed more than just Fernandes to be ready this season. 

[CSA96]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Wasn't Armstrong signed before Sports Republic, fairly sure he was in 2021. (when we had to watch every penny). I remember we had to sell Target to free up funds for Salisu (i think it was Salisu).

The summer 22/23 and the winter of 23 was when SR put their money in, and that's one thing you can't hold against them. They have put money in, more than we've ever been able to put in at PL level - the scouting has just been horrendous, which is why we are where we are.

I see a lot of fans saying that we're where we are because of a lack of investment, but it couldn't be further from the truth in my eyes. Maybe we still focus on that 15m ballpark too much and fill the squad up with those types, rather than 1 or 2 £30m's, but we have been spending money - just really badly.

It was Targett and Adams, pretty sure

Both deals went through on the same day, Targett to Villa for £11m and Adams to Saints for £14m. We then didn't have a back up left back to Bertrand that season, so it started the flipping of KWP to left back, with Valery playing RB. Also had some games with Danso or Djenepo over there... yikes

Edited Thursday at 14:52 by CSA96

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, CSA96 said:

It was Targett and Adams, pretty sure

Both deals went through on the same day, Targett to Villa for £11m and Adams to Saints for £14m. We then didn't have a back up left back to Bertrand that season, so it started the flipping of KWP to left back, with Valery playing RB. Also had some games with Danso or Djenepo over there... yikes

Ah yes, that's the one. I knew there was a deal like that around Targett.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, disconnect said:

We've gone Quantity over Quality, with the hope that players like Fernandes, Kayi Sanda, Edwards, Takaoka, Matsuki and Juan would become established premier league stars over the next few years, when we really needed more than just Fernandes to be ready this season. 

What do they say the definition of madness is? 

We've done it for the last 8 or 9 years, signing loads of cheap players hoping they come good rather than spend a bit more on proven quality. Armstrong, Adams, Carillo, Mara, Onachou, Archer, Edozie, Sullemana, Orsic, Breaton Diaz, Broja, Cornet, Stewart, Djenepo, Elyanoussi, Boufal in the attacking positions, what's that 200m at least inc loan fees? Probably scored less between than them Ings did. Defensive positions Vestergaard, Hoedt, Bednarek, Salisu, ABK, Wood, Edwards, Caleta-Carr, Lyanco, best part of 100m on shite centre backs to try and find the new Van Dijk and Fonte. Factor in the wages wasted on that lot you're probably getting on for 400-500m down the pan. It's so bad its almost funny.

[notnowcato]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What do they say the definition of madness is? 

We've done it for the last 8 or 9 years, signing loads of cheap players hoping they come good rather than spend a bit more on proven quality. Armstrong, Adams, Carillo, Mara, Onachou, Archer, Edozie, Sullemana, Orsic, Breaton Diaz, Broja, Cornet, Stewart, Djenepo, Elyanoussi, Boufal in the attacking positions, what's that 200m at least inc loan fees? Probably scored less between than them Ings did. Defensive positions Vestergaard, Hoedt, Bednarek, Salisu, ABK, Wood, Edwards, Caleta-Carr, Lyanco, best part of 100m on shite centre backs to try and find the new Van Dijk and Fonte. Factor in the wages wasted on that lot you're probably getting on for 400-500m down the pan. It's so bad its almost funny.

Weren't Van Dijk and Fonte cheap compared to most of the other defenders you mentioned?

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Weren't Van Dijk and Fonte cheap compared to most of the other defenders you mentioned?

So was Kevin Keegan, what's your point?

[notnowcato]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So was Kevin Keegan, what's your point?

Fuck knows, was trying to make sense of your post.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fuck knows, was trying to make sense of your post.

it isn't that hard to work out.

[notnowcato]

Just now, Turkish said:

it isn't that hard to work out.

Apparently it is but I am just a simple man.  Your point started off about us buying on the cheap and failing, something repeat something madness... you then listed several defenders, some of whom cost considerably more than the 2 (Double VD and Fonte) we were looking to replace on the cheap.  

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Apparently it is but I am just a simple man.  Your point started off about us buying on the cheap and failing, something repeat something madness... you then listed several defenders, some of whom cost considerably more than the 2 (Double VD and Fonte) we were looking to replace on the cheap.  

Yes you clearly are.

[HarvSFC]

Jose Fonte was signed for over a million when we were the first League One club to do that in years the previous summer when we signed Rickie Lambert and Van Dijk to us is still the 10th highest fee in Scottish football and was the record sale from Scotland at the time. So, in their context, Van Dijk and Fonte were signed for significantly big fees.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Weren't Van Dijk and Fonte cheap compared to most of the other defenders you mentioned?

As someone has else posted, fees are relevant to the period in question. £1.2m for Fonte huge for a League One club 15 years ago, £12m for VVD in 2015 was market rate from Celtic. Bednarek for £6m from Poland was a Championship top 10 fee by then, Hoedt and Vestergaard at £17m a pop bottom 6 PL by 2017/18 when the TV payments jumped and so did the transfer market 2016-19. The odd bargain with the right development attributes - Fernandes for us, Semenyo at Bournemouth - great - clubs like us and Brighton can’t afford market rate across the whole XI. But you’ve got to push as hard as can to get close. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Weren't Van Dijk and Fonte cheap compared to most of the other defenders you mentioned?

No.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Weren't Van Dijk and Fonte cheap compared to most of the other defenders you mentioned?

No, not really

[Turkish]

Just @notnowcato who doesn’t get it then

Thought so

[The Kraken]

Fonte is probably the exact opposite of a cheapskate deal, commensurate to where we were at the time of signing him.

[bennyev]

8 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Wasn't Armstrong signed before Sports Republic, fairly sure he was in 2021. (when we had to watch every penny). I remember we had to sell Target to free up funds for Salisu (i think it was Salisu).

The summer 22/23 and the winter of 23 was when SR put their money in, and that's one thing you can't hold against them. They have put money in, more than we've ever been able to put in at PL level - the scouting has just been horrendous, which is why we are where we are.

I see a lot of fans saying that we're where we are because of a lack of investment, but it couldn't be further from the truth in my eyes. Maybe we still focus on that 15m ballpark too much and fill the squad up with those types, rather than 1 or 2 £30m's, but we have been spending money - just really badly.

Around the time we were buying Armstrong, I think Villa were buying Ollie Watkins from Brentford for 28m. And it feels like that’s the difference between 15m and 28m. We take multiple gambles on 15m talents and hope some will step up. Whilst Villa bought a banker. 

[S-Clarke]

4 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Apparently it is but I am just a simple man.  Your point started off about us buying on the cheap and failing, something repeat something madness... you then listed several defenders, some of whom cost considerably more than the 2 (Double VD and Fonte) we were looking to replace on the cheap.  

You're missing the point though, which is sadly something the club have also been doing.

Those VVD level defenders are now £30m (i.e. the level when we bought him). O'Riley is an example of that, not a defender, but a player of similar stature at Celtic but went for £30-35m. 

Fonte, for our respective level at the time, was a crazy outlay financially. If we replicated that to the level we are now, we'd need to be spending £35m on Sven Botman for example.

The fact is that our scouting didn't move on, we tried to replace VVD, Mane, Tadic for the same price we paid for them - without considering that football, and thus finances at all clubs, have moved on in such a short space of time.

What people are saying is that there's no issue buying young players, but filling the squad up with those £10-15m signings isn't a good tactic. We'd have been better off buying 1 or 2 £30m players, and then using the rest for Fernandes/Edwards and up and coming. We didn't need to splurge what we did on BBD, Archer, Wood, Suguwara etc - there's around £30m right there which could have gone on a 'match starter'. We'd have lost nothing if we hadn't sign those, such has been their involvement.

[Saint86]

17 hours ago, Turkish said:

What do they say the definition of madness is? 

We've done it for the last 8 or 9 years, signing loads of cheap players hoping they come good rather than spend a bit more on proven quality. Armstrong, Adams, Carillo, Mara, Onachou, Archer, Edozie, Sullemana, Orsic, Breaton Diaz, Broja, Cornet, Stewart, Djenepo, Elyanoussi, Boufal in the attacking positions, what's that 200m at least inc loan fees? Probably scored less between than them Ings did. Defensive positions Vestergaard, Hoedt, Bednarek, Salisu, ABK, Wood, Edwards, Caleta-Carr, Lyanco, best part of 100m on shite centre backs to try and find the new Van Dijk and Fonte. Factor in the wages wasted on that lot you're probably getting on for 400-500m down the pan. It's so bad its almost funny.

Under SR i absolutely agree with you. But I think you do a slight disservice to Semmens/Ralph's partnership with this (once they'd got their act together) - they had very limited resources and were always shopping in the bargain basement. Despite that they managed to dig out some good deals with the likes of KWP, Tino, Stu, and Lavia in particularly coming to mind. The Ings and Broja loans were also good use of the loan market.

Before them we had the period of spaffing the club's future up the wall... (i'm not going to check back on staffing at the time, but i think these fall well within the Les Reed, Kruger, Wilson period). The likes of Carillo, Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Vestergard to name a few very notable fuck ups (taking us back to the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons - sadly within the 8-9 year period your discussing and hamstringing the club right when we had a chance of really establishing ourselves as a top 10 side.

Edit - Urgh, i've just reminded of the dire football under the likes of Puel and Hughes. How we went from knocking on the door of the champions league under koeman to that level of shitness, all whilst spending previously unheard of fortunes, is just criminal. Potentially as bad as anything SR have delivered performance wise, and thats saying something!! Smashing villa and sunderland, heck even the 4 goals vs arsenal, comfortably beating chelsea at the bridge, the united game, pelle, mane, tadic etc... Someone please take me back  😰😭

Edited Friday at 09:50 by Saint86

[sambosa75]

21 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Wasn't Armstrong signed before Sports Republic, fairly sure he was in 2021. (when we had to watch every penny). I remember we had to sell Target to free up funds for Salisu (i think it was Salisu).

The summer 22/23 and the winter of 23 was when SR put their money in, and that's one thing you can't hold against them. They have put money in, more than we've ever been able to put in at PL level - the scouting has just been horrendous, which is why we are where we are.

I see a lot of fans saying that we're where we are because of a lack of investment, but it couldn't be further from the truth in my eyes. Maybe we still focus on that 15m ballpark too much and fill the squad up with those types, rather than 1 or 2 £30m's, but we have been spending money - just really badly.

SR bought Saints in Jan 2022.  They sacked Ralph in November 2022 and then signed Tall Pall and Sulemana in the Jan transfer window just after.  My point is, there was money to back Ralph but instead they decided to sack him and give Nathan f*cking Jones the best part of £40m to piss up a wall.  A luxury that a much more capable manager in Ralph was never afforded.

Edited Friday at 10:38 by sambosa75

[sambosa75]

8 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

SR bought Saints in Jan 2022.  They sacked Ralph in November 2022 and then signed Tall Pall and Sulemana in the Jan transfer window just after.  My point is, there was money to back Ralph but instead they decided to sack him and give Nathan f*cking Jones the best part of £40m to piss up a wall.  A luxury that a much more capable manager in Ralph was never afforded.

Blimey, we signed AA in August 2021.  Time flies when you are watching complete shit.

[malcolm waldron]

18 hours ago, Turkish said:

What do they say the definition of madness is? 

We've done it for the last 8 or 9 years, signing loads of cheap players hoping they come good rather than spend a bit more on proven quality. Armstrong, Adams, Carillo, Mara, Onachou, Archer, Edozie, Sullemana, Orsic, Breaton Diaz, Broja, Cornet, Stewart, Djenepo, Elyanoussi, Boufal in the attacking positions, what's that 200m at least inc loan fees? Probably scored less between than them Ings did. Defensive positions Vestergaard, Hoedt, Bednarek, Salisu, ABK, Wood, Edwards, Caleta-Carr, Lyanco, best part of 100m on shite centre backs to try and find the new Van Dijk and Fonte. Factor in the wages wasted on that lot you're probably getting on for 400-500m down the pan. It's so bad its almost funny.

Sorry - attacking......??

[Turkish]

39 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Sorry - attacking......??

Fucking brilliant when he didnt have the ball though wasnt he

[notnowcato]

18 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yes you clearly are.

Too simple to remember that we paid £3m more for Hoedt 2 years after purchasing VVD c.25% increase

I do agree that overall, for whatever reasons, we're not able to attract the potential that we once were, your VVDs and your Mane's and we seem to have less money to do so but if ever a club has shown the ability to overspend on crap it's us.  Recruitment isn't just about how much you spend, it's how wisely you spend it - equally the team environment has to be one that attracts the top young talent, currently we're massively underperforming on both budget and team environment.

[Osvaldorama]

I think in summary, Spors has to overhaul the recruitment side of the club completely. 
 

The list that Turkish posted is absolutely harrowing. No club could thrive when wasting so much money on players that are absolutely nowhere near PL standard. 
 

We have to hope this new guy is good and given unlimited power to start again basically. 

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, malcolm waldron said:

Defensive positions Vestergaard, Hoedt, Bednarek, Salisu, ABK, Wood, Edwards, Caleta-Carr, Lyanco, best part of 100m on shite centre backs to try and find the new Van Dijk and Fonte

 

5 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Too simple to remember that we paid £3m more for Hoedt 2 years after purchasing VVD c.25% increase

I do agree that overall, for whatever reasons, we're not able to attract the potential that we once were, your VVDs and your Mane's and we seem to have less money to do so but if ever a club has shown the ability to overspend on crap it's us.  Recruitment isn't just about how much you spend, it's how wisely you spend it - equally the team environment has to be one that attracts the top young talent, currently we're massively underperforming on both budget and team environment.

What part of that are you struggling with?

[Saint86]

This video from 37:00 onwards talks about Johannes Spors (albeit from a Newcastle standpoint). Breaks down his career history and transfer record etc at the various clubs. 

Being the architect at  the centre of 777's football operations does concern me - Leave a trail of rather badly performing clubs in his recent wake though...
 

Edited Friday at 21:13 by Saint86

[Charlie Wayman]

11 hours ago, sambosa75 said:

SR bought Saints in Jan 2022.  They sacked Ralph in November 2022 and then signed Tall Pall and Sulemana in the Jan transfer window just after.  My point is, there was money to back Ralph but instead they decided to sack him and give Nathan f*cking Jones the best part of £40m to piss up a wall.  A luxury that a much more capable manager in Ralph was never afforded.

Ralph's time here had run its course.

[St. Ciervo]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Ralph's time here had run its course.

That appears to be the case for every manager we dig up to replace him too. So perhaps Ralph wasn't the problem then. Rohl will be a poor man's version of Ralph...I'd rather just take the real thing back. Ah to dream...

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, St. Ciervo said:

That appears to be the case for every manager we dig up to replace him too.

Not really, no. The club made some terrible choices. Jones didn't "run his course" he should have never been given the job.

I think the actual point you are striving at is not that Ralph staying means everything fine..... the most likely scenario is in his last season or the next we would still have suffered relegation and therefore he would have been sacked or resigned anyway.

We didn't back Ralph and then got back up and didn't back Martin, which is why in March we haven't got to double figures in points, still. There's nothing anywhere to suggest Hasenhuttl would have been given the conditions to succeed when they didn't give those conditions to a SR hand selected manager in Russell Martin.

Anyone who truly believes there's and alternative timeline where we don't sack Ralph and magically go from strength to strength to strength up the Premier League is absolutely deluded.

[St. Ciervo]

Or I am simply saying that Ralph is better than every option trotted out since. I think anyone who disagrees is absolutely deluded.

[sambosa75]

9 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Ralph's time here had run its course.

Yeah maybe but I know who I’d rather give £40m to to bring in 2 players in January and it’s not Nathan Jones.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Yeah maybe but I know who I’d rather give £40m to to bring in 2 players in January and it’s not Nathan Jones.

As long as it's Ralph getting the 40 million, and not SR to spend on his behalf, as they'd just waste it.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, St. Ciervo said:

Or I am simply saying that Ralph is better than every option trotted out since. I think anyone who disagrees is absolutely deluded.

Top 2 Bundesliga manager Ralph Hasenhuttl better than Jones and Russell Martin and Selles and Ivan Juric?

No shit. Well done.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, St. Ciervo said:

Or I am simply saying that Ralph is better than every option trotted out since. I think anyone who disagrees is absolutely deluded.

Get this guy a medal 🥇 

[gio1saints]

I would have thought it fairly obvious what the SR play is/was. It looks misguided in retrospect but I’m uncertain many of us would have done different if it was our own money. 
 

You get more hits at finding a future £50M + player the £10m a player route.  Buying one supposed  “ banker” for £30m then potentially selling for £50m + has less upside ~ and arguably equivalent risk as it’s all eggs in one basket. 

What if that £30m player has a career ending injury? With three players for £10m each at least you got two others who could help recoup your losses. We have an inverse example, possibly, with RS. 
 

The policy looks a mistake but it’s forgivable for a club our size. 
 

The particular aspect that should be questioned is that it seems hardly any of these “bargain” buys are proving any good under SR ( MF excepted). Which in turn suggests a scouting / talent identification then development problem. That obviously includes the Managers too! Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford and Forest appear to have much better talent identification and development than us for example -and are (or were ) in our kind of price shopping category. 

The buy cheap buy twice adage is often true - look at how many FB’s we have….and the opposite when we actually pay market price for a proper keeper in Ramsdale. 
 

Incidentally the reason that Ramsdale is a success is because we did not need scouting reports or data analysis to say he is a good player NOW - too much weight has been given to obtaining players who might be a good player IN THE FUTURE. This has clearly exposed and undermined  first team competitiveness - and our club league status has been taken for granted essentially. That’s the big Mistake. 
 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:19 by gio1saints

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Where are we with purchases this summer? Does Spors have to balance books/sell players to buy?

In the Championship, money should go a little further, especially if you're buying players to get us promoted rather than proven premier league players. And I still think our scouts could do worse than spend time looking around the League 1 & 2. 

[Saint86]

9 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Where are we with purchases this summer? Does Spors have to balance books/sell players to buy?

In the Championship, money should go a little further, especially if you're buying players to get us promoted rather than proven premier league players. And I still think our scouts could do worse than spend time looking around the League 1 & 2. 

We're getting relegated from the premier league. Yes, we need to balance the books!

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

We're getting relegated from the premier league. Yes, we need to balance the books!

Yes, don't know what I was trying to ask. I was thinking if we get £25m for Dibling/Fernandes, does Spors then have that to spend on the rebuild because £25m goes a long way in the Championship. It becomes a bit like when we bought Ricky Lambert which I vaguely recall cost a lot more than other teams in that league could afford at the time.

[Badger]

On 06/03/2025 at 22:11, bennyev said:

Around the time we were buying Armstrong, I think Villa were buying Ollie Watkins from Brentford for 28m. And it feels like that’s the difference between 15m and 28m. We take multiple gambles on 15m talents and hope some will step up. Whilst Villa bought a banker. 

By a ‘banker’ I assume you mean a ‘nailed on’ or guaranteed success. That’s an easy claim to make in hindsight, and possibly unfair on our recruitment team at the time given our finances. 

Villa signed Watkins as I recall on the wish of Dean Smith who’d managed him at Brentford, so they certainly had a better insight into the player, but their records were quite similar.

2020. Watkins (age 24)joined Villa, his record at Brentford was 45 goals in 132 matches 

2021 Armstrong (age 24) joined Saints. Blackburn record 41 in 130

From Wikipedia.

Not dissimilar track records, although Villa clearly thought he had the potential to justify £28m. At the time most pundits thought they’d overpaid for him. Not sure how we’d have felt taking a punt on an untried player for that money.

Had we signed Watkins no telling how his career might have developed (or regressed). Rather than Ralph, Jones, Selles he’s been coached by Smith, Gerrard (okay not great there) and now Emery. Had he come to us he might now be at Stoke .