Man Utd 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Viking Saint]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

It's not all on Smallbone, but I agree, Archer or Armstrong was the sub at that point. Onuachu was shite when he came on.

Could argue that Lallana could've been the one to come on and use his nous to control the game a bit more, or Archer if we wanted a more orthodox swap. Either way, Smallbone was not the answer and significantly weakened us

[Wade Garrett]

48 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

Serious question, can anyone see where the next win is coming from 

August

[Fabrice29]

21 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Let’s hope this new Sporting Director, if it is to be Spors, starts bringing in players with the athleticism and physicality to cope with competing for the autos and then PL like Wolves did under Nuno as the core of the squad if we get back there at some stage. Ely, Vesty, AA - we’ve been signing/developing players who get swamped and dominated physically.

Victor/Morgan are what you need in CM. Downes could do a job if he gets help and can bulk up slightly. Lesley has been dire, not an athlete, fortunately Chelsea’s issue. 

The smaller technical players are the icing on the cake when the core squad is built. 

100% agree we are dominated physically and need to sort that out. Weak physically and weak mentally at this level. 

20 minutes ago, Wiggles31 said:

If we hired Juric after the Bournemouth away game we’d have had a chance of staying up. 

This is so funny because it implies everything has been better since despite continuing to find ways of losing games at this level, including our worst performance of the season and maybe our worst end to a game this season? At some stage people do really need to look beyond the managers and if two seasons at this level and 5 different managers isn’t the time to do so then you might need to start questioning your sanity.

 

15 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But we still have the scar tissue.

Probably worth remembering that Martin is the only one of our previous managers to deliver success over a season or even a win in the PL this season so far. And people can have me down as defending RM and being Lucy Pinder or whatever they want but  different tactics, performances, hair or things they say in the media is all well and good but this team, led by similar players over two seasons here now continue to find ways to lose football matches at this level.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

August

Care to guess a year? 🙂

[Fabrice29]

16 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

Could argue that Lallana could've been the one to come on and use his nous to control the game a bit more, or Archer if we wanted a more orthodox swap. Either way, Smallbone was not the answer and significantly weakened us

All just semantics at this point. It’s a squad game management issue, not individuals. ‘Should have subbed on this ineffectual player instead of that ineffectual player’ 

[Lighthouse]

19 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

Could argue that Lallana could've been the one to come on and use his nous to control the game a bit more, or Archer if we wanted a more orthodox swap. Either way, Smallbone was not the answer and significantly weakened us

He came on in the 87th minute against Brentford and we conceded twice. As a matter of fact, he’s not come on before the 85th minute since his injury against Liverpool. The bloke just isn’t fit and hasn’t been for years.

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

100% agree we are dominated physically and need to sort that out. Weak physically and weak mentally at this level. 

This is so funny because it implies everything has been better since despite continuing to find ways of losing games at this level, including our worst performance of the season and maybe our worst end to a game this season? At some stage people do really need to look beyond the managers and if two seasons at this level and 5 different managers isn’t the time to do so then you might need to start questioning your sanity.

 

Probably worth remembering that Martin is the only one of our previous managers to deliver success over a season or even a win in the PL this season so far. And people can have me down as defending RM and being Lucy Pinder or whatever they want but  different tactics, performances, hair or things they say in the media is all well and good but this team, led by similar players over two seasons here now continue to find ways to lose football matches at this level.

 

We’ve had previous managers who have delivered better results over a whole season. And at this level.

[Micky]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

Yeah, I know it’s only a game and all that but this season is really, really getting to me. I never EVER thought I’d be relieved to see my team reach 12 points. I will be if we do. Massively. 

I hate to say it, but I really don't think we are going to get there.  I think our best bet scenario may come down to teams being safe and 'on the beach' come the end of season, maybe West Ham, Fulham, Leicester and Everton games MAY give us a chance.  Competitively I don't think we've got a cat in hells chance, but those game may just give us a lifeline, how fucking sad is it that our goal is to try and get 12 points in a season..!

[Saint NL]

Special mention to the ref/linesman that missed a couple of decisions. That ball that Ramsdale "kept in" was two foot over the line FFS. 

 

[ApprenticeBillionaire]

I'm sure someone has already said this on this thread but the most piss-boiling thing about tonight was, that last goal was EXACTLY the same stupid shit we were doing under Martin.

That collapse was coming.

For some reason we reverted to playing out from the back and we haven't got the players to do it.

Yeah fine if you have £100M players in every position on the pitch, but we haven't.

[ApprenticeBillionaire]

1 hour ago, Roo1976 said:

we've still got the same team just longer kicks,but we hold onto the ball well when its called for,frustrated yes ,did i think wed win no, but there was a good vibe about it.Can we defend.....NO. Please just let us beat Derbys horrendous points total please. If we had a half decent bit of luck in front of goal the game should have been out of sight at half time as im sure there would have been many comments about this already. But we didn't cover ourselves with poor finishing and just that mental belief to go on and get it over the line ,we got deeper than we should have and just failed again. Suleman wasted glorious chances to score and or assist,,just a missed opportunity to have won Bugger.

We need DOUBLE the points we currently have more or less.

I can't see it.

We sacked Martin way too late, he should have gone before the last International break.

You could make a case for before that even.

[Cumbria Saint]

OK, another defeat and the expected capitulation but for once that was really fun to watch (barring the last 15 minutes). Give me more.

[benjii]

4 hours ago, Viking Saint said:

Could argue that Lallana could've been the one to come on and use his nous to control the game a bit more, or Archer if we wanted a more orthodox swap. Either way, Smallbone was not the answer and significantly weakened us

Lallana's nose is big but I'm not sure he can control a match with it.

[chivvy]

I think the board trusted Martins loyalty to the squad .. whilst commendable some of squad were the relegated members and the other are simply good championship players..  we all knew the squad wasn't going to be good enough and so it has been proved..   recruitment has been absolutely awful since sports republic took over.. with a lot more misses than hits..  we will be challenging for the championship next year I have no doubt.

[Osvaldorama]

9 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

100% agree we are dominated physically and need to sort that out. Weak physically and weak mentally at this level. 

This is so funny because it implies everything has been better since despite continuing to find ways of losing games at this level, including our worst performance of the season and maybe our worst end to a game this season? At some stage people do really need to look beyond the managers and if two seasons at this level and 5 different managers isn’t the time to do so then you might need to start questioning your sanity.

 

Probably worth remembering that Martin is the only one of our previous managers to deliver success over a season or even a win in the PL this season so far. And people can have me down as defending RM and being Lucy Pinder or whatever they want but  different tactics, performances, hair or things they say in the media is all well and good but this team, led by similar players over two seasons here now continue to find ways to lose football matches at this level.

 

Martin has gone, let it go. He was a terrible manager that has absolutely fucked the club. 
 

 

Edited January 17 by Osvaldorama

[CB Fry]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

100% agree we are dominated physically and need to sort that out. Weak physically and weak mentally at this level. 

This is so funny because it implies everything has been better since despite continuing to find ways of losing games at this level, including our worst performance of the season and maybe our worst end to a game this season? At some stage people do really need to look beyond the managers and if two seasons at this level and 5 different managers isn’t the time to do so then you might need to start questioning your sanity.

 

Probably worth remembering that Martin is the only one of our previous managers to deliver success over a season or even a win in the PL this season so far. And people can have me down as defending RM and being Lucy Pinder or whatever they want but  different tactics, performances, hair or things they say in the media is all well and good but this team, led by similar players over two seasons here now continue to find ways to lose football matches at this level.

 

You: People need to look beyond the manager

Also you: Russell Martin Russell Martin Russell Martin Russell Martin Russell Martin ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

[whelk]

Look on the bright side, at least we got 3 points in the half-time table

Edited January 17 by whelk

[Sunglasses Ron]

It’s pretty special how on 80 minutes we were coming out of that game with nothing but credit, yet somehow still managed to be a bit of a laughing stock come full time.

[Vancouver Saint]

Was out so watched the recording of the game...thought we looked like a proper football team for much of the game...no fear, good quick passing interplay....Sulemana taking the Mickey out of their right-back...some freedom and joy back in our play, Fernandes should have scored earlier and a two-goal cushion would probably have been enough.

Of course at the 81st minute I just knew we'd find a way to lose it and predicted a 2-1 or 3-1 loss...true enough.

I don't understand why we didn't keep Fernandes on to see the game out - and Aribo for that matter. They were at game speed and in control. Our subs made us much weaker.

Feel bad for Juric and the players...deserved at least a point from that game. Man Utd looked rubbish all the same.

[chownie20]

9 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He's literally just jogged about doing fuck all. Total waste of a shirt.

And to think RM claimed he was only ever happy when he was on the pitch. Dear oh dear.

That's my big issue. You're a sub, you're fresh legs, be mobile, harass, press, close down. But why so casual and pedestrian? Does my head in.

[Butthole_Surfer]

I did really enjoy the first 60 minutes… I do hope the figure out to play like that for 90 minutes.
But some of these pedestrian footballers need to leave ASAP. Every ball HAS to be fought for for 90 minutes straight.
KWP's defending is super suspect though… Tall P needs to be shipped to Turkey now.

[Mr X]

9 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

We didn't... that has been the problem! I'm suggesting what we should do next time we get a promotion! We don't need to shift players like Arsmrong now. They are good enough to do very well in the Championship next season. He scored 24 goals ffs! What we should do is shift them after the promotion!

True but this suggests the owners will learn from their mistakes which they just haven't done so far! 

[Mr X]

We are so weak mentally after their equaliser it was only going to go one way! The scoreline certainly flattered them but we'd have needed 4 goals so was never going to happen, it's like as soon as a team equalises the entire team goes into self destruct panic mode, we need a vocal leader in defence in the mould of fonte killer VVD etc 

Edited January 17 by Mr X

[chownie20]

Agree we probably might as well cash in on TP, we didn't really use him when he came on and doesn't really fit what we seem to be doing.

IF we had a fit Downes and Charles to bring in for Les and Aribo we may have faired better.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

If we’d played like that all season, we’d probably still be in the bottom 3, but we wouldn’t be embarrassingly adrift. We’d have hope and will have watched decent football.

The difference was the standard of substitutes, theirs  made a real difference whereas ours are substandard. 
 

Definitely some positives though. I thought Bree, Airbo and obviously Sully had their best games in a saints shirt. Big Les also did well, together with the usual high performers of MF & TB.

KWP a mixed bag, played well generally, but thought he could have done better with first 2 goals. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but he should have engaged the winger earlier. I know it’s the modern way to defend, but I’d like to see a challenge put in further up the pitch rather than jockeying until he gets into dangerous areas. 
 

First time for a long time I’ve been disappointed with a result, without being angry. First hour we showed real purpose and urgency, two things missing from the previous regime and our Manager posed questions of the other dug out and seemed to catch them by surprise.
 

Fair play to Ivan, after  the Brentford shit show he’s clearly worked on stuff and we’re looking better. Time will tell whether it was him or playing against a big club that drove the improvement, but at least there’s now something to work on. 
 

 

[coalman]

8 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Probably worth remembering that Martin is the only one of our previous managers to deliver success over a season or even a win in the PL this season so far. 

We really need to celebrate that win over Everton more. What would really help would be if we changed the window we were assessing Martin under to just that game. Then he'd have a 100% win record in the Premier League which no other manager matched during that (one game) period.

[tisspahars]

7 hours ago, ApprenticeBillionaire said:

We need DOUBLE the points we currently have more or less.

I can't see it.

We sacked Martin way too late, he should have gone before the last International break.

You could make a case for before that even.

FAO the "no way we get more points than Derby" brigade.....Bet 365 put us up at 20/1 yesterday to finish with the lowest ever. May have been trimmed since due to last night's result but some context I would say.....(PS - I was surprised they went THAT big but still it is clearly way more unlikely than likely).

[RedWillie]

9 hours ago, obelisk said:

Of all the substitutions available I must admit that putting on Smallbone to play something that might be considered to be a false 9 was not in my playbook. From that moment on it was one way traffic.

His very first touch he passed it to a Man U player.  Looked slow and totally lost

[trousers]

10 minutes ago, coalman said:

We really need to celebrate that win over Everton more. What would really help would be if we changed the window we were assessing Martin under to just that game. Then he'd have a 100% win record in the Premier League which no other manager matched during that (one game) period.

Move on FFS!

[coalman]

Just now, trousers said:

Move on FFS!

You're telling me that deep down you don't feel a piece of yourself missing when you look at the Saints dugout and HE is not there?

[Sarnia Cherie]

8 hours ago, Viking Saint said:

Could argue that Lallana could've been the one to come on and use his nous to control the game a bit more, or Archer if we wanted a more orthodox swap. Either way, Smallbone was not the answer and significantly weakened us

Man U booed off their home ground at half time and were second best for most of the game. Once Dibling came off injured the dynamics changed. Juric's substitutions finished the game entirely. I couldn't see the point of them and would have rather he had left the team as it was. They had played so well.  KWP played his part in Amad's first 2 goals and THB, who had played well, just didn't concentrate enough and put a hattrick on a plate for Amad and a final score line which flattered United. 

[Kingsland Codger]

1 hour ago, Vancouver Saint said:

I don't understand why we didn't keep Fernandes on to see the game out - and Aribo for that matter. They were at game speed and in control. Our subs made us much weaker.

I agree - but then again, as a (not so) wise man once said “if it ain’t broke, consider breaking it”

[Chez]

The 'backs against the wall game' under Koeman apart, this must be the first time since Hoddle that we have looked good playing five at the back. The fact United were doing the same perhaps helped. They looked like they didn't have a clue how to play it either! 

I wonder if Bree is more suited to a centre back role? Did ok last night. Hasn't got the pace or attacking ability to play fullback. I know with only about 8 CBs we are desperately short in that position, but you never know we might offload someone in the summer.

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

The 'backs against the wall game' under Koeman apart, this must be the first time since Hoddle that we have looked good playing five at the back. The fact United were doing the same perhaps helped. They looked like they didn't have a clue how to play it either! 

I wonder if Bree is more suited to a centre back role? Did ok last night. Hasn't got the pace or attacking ability to play fullback. I know with only about 8 CBs we are desperately short in that position, but you never know we might offload someone in the summer.

I always feel that when you play 3 at the back one of them needs to be more of a full back. Bree is well suited to that position imo. 

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Martin has gone, let it go. He was a terrible manager that has absolutely fucked the club. 
 

 

I've read some revisionism in my time... but Martin undoubtedly left the club in a better place than he found it.

Think people just need to let the big chin go with Martin. He was married to his style of football and totally inflexible - making him an incredibly flawed manager for Saints. What has screwed the club over and essentially wasted the season is the board's decision making (in keeping him too long), and poor recruitment.

Had we had Juric from earlier in the season i don't think we'd even be in the relegation zone, and the players' confidence and morale would have been far higher.

We've also had winnable games in January, and because of the timing of the board's decisions (and lack of commitment), we've made no first team transfers (and shown no signs of making any). The board have essentially surrendered this season with every decision they've made - or at least they've demonstrated no ambition or belief that we could stay up.

[lambtiss]

11 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Always looks like he has leukemia, no wonder oppo players just brush him aside.

Evil, disgusting comment that has no place on this forum. You should apologise. 

[Football Special]

9 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

August

We've got a chance v Burnley in the fa cup 

[gecko]

Really disappointing result in the end, but at least we saw some positives. I think the manager's tactics have made us more competitive (Brentford aside) in the 5 games he's been here, and that it's taking a little while to erase the garbage tippy-tappy nonsense from the players.

It's good to hear comments from the manager afterwards where he's actually noticed what's wrong. The subs gave us nothing, and we need to be much better at game management - thankfully Juric's Torino were well known for tactical fouling, so here's hoping that's the next thing he focusses on with the team; late game capitulation has been an issue for us since Ralph.

Trying to stay positive in an overwhelmingly negative season. Now let's go and ruin Forrest's party on Sunday.

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

It’s pretty special how on 80 minutes we were coming out of that game with nothing but credit, yet somehow still managed to be a bit of a laughing stock come full time.

I think players can hold their heads high, Brentford home was a laughing stock not last night, let down by poor substitutions and LACK OF FITNESS , also poor finishing, we really should have scored 4 at least. 

First 80 mins make me feel even more frustrated, there is some ability in this squad but it's been so poorly managed 

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

You: People need to look beyond the manager

Also you: Russell Martin Russell Martin Russell Martin Russell Martin Russell Martin ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

Umm, I think my point all season long was that maybe Martin wasn’t the source of the problems and capitulations and the players not being up to the level was always going to continue whether we changed him or not.

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Martin has gone, let it go. He was a terrible manager that has absolutely fucked the club. 
 

 

You can rewrite history all you like if it makes you feel better but it doesn’t mean you’ll ever be right.

Edited January 17 by Fabrice29

[Mr X]

I don't entirely blame Duric for the substitutions he can only bring on what he has, although someone from the old guard should have been. Advising him just how dire a player will smallbone is! 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, coalman said:

We really need to celebrate that win over Everton more. What would really help would be if we changed the window we were assessing Martin under to just that game. Then he'd have a 100% win record in the Premier League which no other manager matched during that (one game) period.

You don’t need to be weird mate but you probably should recognise whatever manager we have this bunch of players will flatter to deceive, capitulate and lose regularly at this level. The good news is we’re not far away from getting some wins based on last night and hopefully this manager will eventually install some better confidence and calmness under pressure, or maybe find a striker to finish games off, neither of which the previous manager could at this level.

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I don't entirely blame Duric for the substitutions he can only bring on what he has, although someone from the old guard should have been. Advising him just how dire a player will smallbone is! 

‘Sorry sir, I know you’ve been impressed in training by him but I promise you he’s ineffectual. Now if you could just look at all the other ineffectual players on your bench and choose one of them instead that would satisfy Saintsweb’

[Football Special]

A United fan I know through work who was at the game messaged to say he thought we should have won, "could have been out of sight if your players could finish" also said impressed with our support so hats off to those who made the effort to travel up there. 

[disconnect]

Hopefully the end of Smallbone, who is nowhere near good enough for the Premier League. Decent enough option off the bench in the Championship, but not good enough for now. What's happened to Stephens? Archer must be fairly pissed off, unless he is carrying some sort of injury. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

30 minutes ago, Football Special said:

I think players can hold their heads high, Brentford home was a laughing stock not last night, let down by poor substitutions and LACK OF FITNESS , also poor finishing, we really should have scored 4 at least. 

First 80 mins make me feel even more frustrated, there is some ability in this squad but it's been so poorly managed 

Oh yes, this was only about a 5 out of 10 on the laughing stock scale (Brentford definitely a solid 9 I'd say).

Fact is though, that's it's not normal to be winning a game going into the last ten minutes and end up losing 3-1.

[beatlesaint]

I do wonder after last night if Juric will "like" Smallbone as a player quite as much as he originally thought, bearing in mind his comments about the subs after the match as well.

[S-Clarke]

Sadly the game changed when we lost Dibling and then Fernandes, our two most technical and influential players - they allowed us to retain a threat up top.

As soon as they went, and we had bloody Smallbone and Armstrong in their roles we were no longer able to retain any ball in the attacking third, thus allowing United to back us into a corner and the rest is history.

The drop off from Fernandes to Smallbone and Downes is too big, way, way too big. This isn't new news either, whenever we had Smallbone and Downes in CM last season we were often played through. So I don't know why anyone expects any different this year.

We're probably 5 or 6 first team players away from being competitive at this level. The money spent on Wood, BBD, Archer and Suguwara needed to have been spent on better quality for us to have stood a chance.

The only take away is that I could see what we were trying to do for the first hour, good counter pressing and playing them into mistakes - but we just don't have the ability to see anything through at this level. A real chastening season, which some players will never ever recover from.

[saintant]

10 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

We lost 3-1 against the team in 15th. I don’t remember this level of optimism when we played well against Leicester and Liverpool for large periods and lost 3-2 but I guess there’s some difference I’m not seeing.

Aint that the truth!

[saintant]

Ivan Juric made a clear nod towards our lack of fitness when interviewed by Adam Blackmore after the game. His words were along the lines of having to work more so that we can compete with intensity after 95 minutes.