Palace 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[saintant]

We are in a hopeless position so I don't get how timid we are and seemingly so afraid to commit players to attack. Maybe players are still trying to shake off the ingrained notion that they must not give the ball away so backwards and sideways is safer than forwards. It matters not a jot how many games we lose so we may as well go for the jugular and attempt to create some chances and hopefully score a few more goals. Take the handbrake off and risk throwing more players forward and to hell with the consequences. We are just so tepid and content to sit back with the comfort blanket of everybody defending from the front. This won't win us games. Let's at least have a go and if a few thrashings come our way but we win some games surely that's better than the negative way we've played all season. 

[notnowcato]

25 minutes ago, saintant said:

We are in a hopeless position so I don't get how timid we are and seemingly so afraid to commit players to attack. Maybe players are still trying to shake off the ingrained notion that they must not give the ball away so backwards and sideways is safer than forwards. It matters not a jot how many games we lose so we may as well go for the jugular and attempt to create some chances and hopefully score a few more goals. Take the handbrake off and risk throwing more players forward and to hell with the consequences. We are just so tepid and content to sit back with the comfort blanket of everybody defending from the front. This won't win us games. Let's at least have a go and if a few thrashings come our way but we win some games surely that's better than the negative way we've played all season. 

It’s disappointing that we are struggling and have been all season. If the forward pass isn’t on, then the decision is do we look to retain control of the ball or hit a more hopeful ball into the channels or to the big lad. Both options have their downside particularly in this league. 

[WokingSaint]

11 hours ago, Viking Saint said:

Entirely legit, apparently....

I don't know if the law has been changed,but when I played in goal (a long time ago), you could not challenge a goalkeeper in the goal area unless both his feet were on the ground. Therefore, any interference with a goalkeeper who was jumping was given as a foul.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

It’s disappointing that we are struggling and have been all season. If the forward pass isn’t on, then the decision is do we look to retain control of the ball or hit a more hopeful ball into the channels or to the big lad. Both options have their downside particularly in this league. 

It doesn't have to be a hopeful ball down the channel - what I'm advocating is getting more players forward. The mindset of the majority seems to be to stay back in case the opponents win the ball and attack us. At some stage we are going to have to take a more risky approach because we seem afraid to cross the half way line.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

It doesn't have to be a hopeful ball down the channel - what I'm advocating is getting more players forward. The mindset of the majority seems to be to stay back in case the opponents win the ball and attack us. At some stage we are going to have to take a more risky approach because we seem afraid to cross the half way line.

A better team than Palace would have put five or six past us yesterday, we were so open they could just run at us at will. If we start committing more players forward we're likely to get properly embarrassed next time we play someone decent.

[macca155]

It's not as if it's hard to work out why the club can't compete. Forest, Bournemouth,  Fulham, Palace, and Brentford are showing how it can be done.

Every week Saints are outclassed by players  who are coached more effectively, have a far stronger tactical structure, and above all else are resilient to knock backs.

I thought they played ok yesterday. It wasn't terrible and the defence did its job pretty well. However with Aribo, Bree, Armstrong, and Sulemana on the pitch, the team is weakened. They aren't bad players, far from it, but at this level the game is very fast, and they need that extra second to make a decision. That puts the team under pressure and allows players who do have a bit of an edge like. Dibling, Onuachu, and Archer to be too easily marked out of the game.

KWP absolutely rinsed Palace down the left for the first 15 minutes yesterday. Palace simply doubled and tripled up on him. Knowing full well that the ball would eventually find Armstrong or Aribo. When it did it was played back or lost.

Against West Ham the threat came from both sides and through the middle. Consequently the WHU defence was being pulled about and gaps appeared.

Need more of that.

Edited 30 December, 2024 by macca155

[saintant]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

A better team than Palace would have put five or six past us yesterday, we were so open they could just run at us at will. If we start committing more players forward we're likely to get properly embarrassed next time we play someone decent.

If you sit back and invite the opposition on to you guess what - they'll say thank you very much for making our life easy and help themselves. Not to worry, let's just camp in our own half and expect to win football matches shall we. Doesn't work and never will.

[notnowcato]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

It doesn't have to be a hopeful ball down the channel - what I'm advocating is getting more players forward. The mindset of the majority seems to be to stay back in case the opponents win the ball and attack us. At some stage we are going to have to take a more risky approach because we seem afraid to cross the half way line.

I can’t see Juric adopting this in any way. He will continue to tighten us at the back, making us difficult to score against will be Juric’s primary target. I wish him good fucking luck with that!

[saintant]

Just now, notnowcato said:

I can’t see Juric adopting this in any way. He will continue to tighten us at the back, making us difficult to score against will be Juric’s primary target. I wish him good fucking luck with that!

Making us harder to score against is a good starting point but he's going to need to get us scoring goals and that can only happen if you get more players forward. It's a delicate balancing act but we must not get sucked into a team set up to defend at the expense of everything else.

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

If you sit back and invite the opposition on to you guess what - they'll say thank you very much for making our life easy and help themselves. Not to worry, let's just camp in our own half and expect to win football matches shall we. Doesn't work and never will.

This is how awful we are though, like you say, sit back and we get steamrollered, go forward and the opposition will just walk through us. 

If ever there is an Exhibit A of a Championship side not beig ready for the Premier league it is us and Sheffield United in the past two seasons.

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

If you sit back and invite the opposition on to you guess what - they'll say thank you very much for making our life easy and help themselves. Not to worry, let's just camp in our own half and expect to win football matches shall we. Doesn't work and never will.

The alternative you're basically describing the first 20 minutes against Spurs. Whatever it is you are envisioning, I fear you may be disappointed.

[OldNick]

If Carlsberg did New manager bounce, they'd bloody stay clear of Saints

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The alternative you're basically describing the first 20 minutes against Spurs. Whatever it is you are envisioning, I fear you may be disappointed.

Not sure why getting players forward means we have to use the first 20 minutes against Spurs as a blueprint. It's up to Ivan Juric to strike the right balance and I get he has to be careful because he's come to a team that was shipping goals for fun thanks to RM. Plenty of sides including all the decent ones get players forward to support attacks - if you don't all attacks will inevitably just peter out and you're back defending again. When we lose the ball we have to learn to win it back much quicker - you won't do that if there is always a huge gap between your attack and midfield which is one of our major problems. I know that our squad is not the best but we can do better with what we have. Early days for IJ and we've at least been close to getting something from his first two games in charge. I'm sure he's learning a lot and will continue fine tuning and hopefully get one or two additions in the January window to help.

[Lord Duckhunter]

From what I could see from my restricted view was the centre halves were bullied, I thought all 3 had their poorest game since the last manager left. Adam Armstrong is just fucking pony. Bree did ok, but is clearly a limited player. KWP was decent, very good first half. Diblin showed signs of shaking off his average form lately, tall Paul was pretty ineffective, but didn’t really get great service as our crossing was woeful. I thought MF was our best player, although it look like him that chested the ball down for the second goal. The first goal was a mess, Ramsdale too weak, probably expected to get the foul which would have been given 9 times out of 10. Against it’s this ridiculous “clear and obvious” that’s caused the issue. That and the VAR sticking up for his mate. 
 

First half showed the continued improvement in looking like a proper team with proper tactics. Second half when chasing the game we reverted to Lego ball. Too many safe passes, too many sideways and backwards and too one paced plodding football. No urgency and no pace.

Palace were stronger, fitter and better than us. The last one is acceptable, but the first two aren’t.

[Saint Gifford]

I would normally always back the players,  regardless of the manager or ownership. 

But this lot have completely given up now.

Some are nowhere near the level of Prem Football, and have managed to steal their way to a living.

Others that should know better and can play at this level, are cheating a living and looking for the next mug that signs them. 
 

Just hope he has a brief and budget to clear the decks and start again. 

 

 

 

[OldNick]

5 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

I would normally always back the players,  regardless of the manager or ownership. 

But this lot have completely given up now.

Some are nowhere near the level of Prem Football, and have managed to steal their way to a living.

Others that should know better and can play at this level, are cheating a living and looking for the next mug that signs them. 
 

Just hope he has a brief and budget to clear the decks and start again. 

 

 

 

That is plain wrong imo.

[Fabrice29]

52 minutes ago, OldNick said:

That is plain wrong imo.

How many times do we need to finish bottom of the league / get relegated for you to believe the players might be the issue? 

[Saint Billy]

Even if Pep was in charge there would be no new manager bounce. This present squad is busted and basically needs rebuilding from top to bottom. Apart from Fernandez and Dibling, who we will lose soon, this team plays lower quality football than even that of championship level now.

Of course Russ has not helped one bit, but SR are even more responsible with their god awful signings and manager selections and they have basically fucked this club over.

[Dark Munster]

23 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

How many times do we need to finish bottom of the league / get relegated for you to believe the players might be the issue? 

How many times do we need to finish bottom of the league / get relegated for you to believe Rasmus and SR might be the issue? 

[Window Cleaner]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

That is plain wrong imo.

No it isn't, the players are obviously a factor of the problem. while it's true that it's not their fault if they're not good enough for the PL, we've conceded a lot of goals due to individual errors, among the highest in the league I believe. We'd also be right up there for missed chances i expect as well. 

There's a reason why the three promoted clubs are last, next to last and next to next to last, players not of the required level. It's also probably why City have fallen through the floor of late, the replacements aren't good enough.

 

 

[Fabrice29]

24 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

How many times do we need to finish bottom of the league / get relegated for you to believe Rasmus and SR might be the issue? 

Well they recruited some of them so yeah, they can absolutely be blamed.

[notnowcato]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well they recruited some of them so yeah, they can absolutely be blamed.

They certainly do need to shoulder some of the blame, but - for whatever reason(s) - we're shopping in the middle aisle not Taste the Difference brands, taking a punt on some premier league experience has backfired horribly. 

[East Kent Saint]

Watching on Motd Saints weren't so bad , likewise WH although 0 shots on target hit the post and the crossbar and had a couple saved . Both teams have the same problem in the modern age of attracting and paying for top class players . I have to say the season in the Championship was much more enjoyable than this one !

[trousers]

So, this season in summary then...

Rubbish owners, poor manager and mediocre players...

What other jaw-dropping revelations can we come up with next....?

Edited 30 December, 2024 by trousers

[VectisSaint]

12 minutes ago, trousers said:

So, this season in summary then...

Rubbish owners, poor manager and mediocre players...

What other jaw-dropping revelations can we come up with next....?

Where do you get mediocre? With a very few notable exceptions they are poor.

[Jack]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

So, this season in summary then...

Rubbish owners, poor manager and mediocre players...

What other jaw-dropping revelations can we come up with next....?

Obvious deliberate PGMOL bias against shit teams who need a level playing field to have half a chance 

[Doctoroncall]

On 30/12/2024 at 00:34, Hawkswood said:

Sorry but i have to ask, are points 2 3 and 4 genuinely true  or was that just a  pissed off rant for which I don't blame you.

We have a DoF operations. Whether they are involved in football strategy is not known but the background of Mark Bitcon is as a performance director. 
 

No set piece coach and I think that reflects the ~85 corners with no goals and the third most goals conceded from corners in the league Wolves and Leicester have 3 more). 
 

scouting structure has changed to a multi club model but it wasn’t working well before. The new structure has caused issues with many leavers and new personnel arriving. May take a while for it to be effective (if at all). 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

We have a DoF operations. Whether they are involved in football strategy is not known but the background of Mark Bitcon is as a performance director. 
 

No set piece coach and I think that reflects the ~85 corners with no goals and the third most goals conceded from corners in the league Wolves and Leicester have 3 more). 
 

scouting structure has changed to a multi club model but it wasn’t working well before. The new structure has caused issues with many leavers and new personnel arriving. May take a while for it to be effective (if at all). 

We need a competent Director of Football which Bitcon isn't. He may have a role to play but his expertise, as you point out, is in performance which has little to do with being a Director of Football. As in many things SR made a total balls up of replacing Jason Wilcox and I would like to see Dragan take a firm hand and involve himself, with outside advice, to appoint a DoF who knows what he's doing. The person appointed should be given extended powers and Bitcon and Rasmus should be told in no uncertain terms to keep their beaks out. Perhaps then the football club might be eased off the rocks and into calmer waters to give us the chance to reset and rebuild in a sensible manner. The current shit storm cannot be allowed to continue.

[OldNick]

19 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

How many times do we need to finish bottom of the league / get relegated for you to believe the players might be the issue? 

Firstly when I replied to the original stating ' youre plain wrong' it was about the ridiculous term stealing a living.

My next point is, for someone to have a user name of one of most useless and selfish footballers in decades to play for us and then have the audacity to say the players are at fault.

A player who refused to go on to the pitch in a Cup final as he was sulking at not being picked, a player who made such deep crop circles in the pitch with his constant going in circles , that Im surprised the pitch has recovered. So before blaming the players now ( not that they are above reproach) I would have a look at your choice of hero.

Edited 31 December, 2024 by OldNick

[Chez]

On 30/12/2024 at 10:11, beatlesaint said:

If ever there is an Exhibit A of a Championship side not beig ready for the Premier league it is us and Sheffield United in the past two seasons.

Luton have to go down as one of the most `unready for the prem' sides ever, but they gave it a bloody good go.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

My next point is, for someone to have a user name of one of most useless and selfish footballers in decades to play for us and then have the audacity to say the players are at fault.

FF wasn't useless. 

[OldNick]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

FF wasn't useless. 

All in you opinion. He wasnt useless, he wasn't wonderful either. Most frustrating a lot of the time, but neither is TP or a lot of the current squad.

Edited 31 December, 2024 by OldNick

[S-Clarke]

19 minutes ago, OldNick said:

All in you opinion. He wasnt useless, he wasn't wonderful either. Most frustrating a lot of the time, but neither is TP or a lot of the current squad.

Christ, what I'd pay to see Fabrice in this side. He'd run rings (literally!) around some of the clowns we field today.

[rallyboy]

Just saw that the Palace manager clarified that the Premier League introduced different rules to everywhere else in the world and you're allowed to assault goalkeepers, he claimed the referees even had a meeting with him and assured him that fouling keepers on the line is a new idea for the 24-25 season, but only in the UK.

Did we miss a memo? Or is he full of shite?

[Baird of the land]

I see the audio of the ramsdale goal has come out. Apparently mateta just rests a hand on him. what a load of garbage.