coalman Posted Sunday at 16:24 Share Posted Sunday at 16:24 (edited) Jack is back. Or is he? Ivan Juric begins his reign with a home tie against West Ham and the decisions which exposed his predecessor. Is Jack Stephens our captain? Is he our 3rd best centre back? Should be play him in the floating midfield fullback central defender role he has made his own. It's a chance to set the tone for the rest of the season or lay the foundations for another 12 months of sub mediocrity. The good news is Juric joins on that rarest of things for Southampton - a 0-0 draw. Not the surprise that we didn't score as that is de riguer these days but the fact that we didn't concede in the league for only the second time this season. West Ham have their own problems. Torn between sticking with their manager or joining the manager merry go round. Their forum will be buzzing with talk about Graham Potter and getting someone in to get a tune out of what is, on paper, a really good squad. They'll be wary of a Saints side that doesn't seem to be rolling over and waiting for belly rubs any more. If they're going to score goals they might have to do it themselves. Had we played this game 2 weeks ago this would be the corner turning opportunity for Lopetegui - now maybe not so much. For the new manager, there's not a lot of time to start making a difference. The first likely change is that the expected 3 day break between today's game and the next is unlikely to happen. Juric seems like a man who'll want to get at his players in training. The players will just have to adjust to the brave new world where they're expected to turn up to work at inconvenient times - like in-between matches. Sadly we're still light up front. Dibling looks knackered. Armstrong looks Armstrong. Onuachu and Archer look to be the best chance of supplying firepower which is not any manager's happy place. In the middle of the park it's a different story. We have the option of playing central midfielders for the first time in a long time with instructions to make tackles. Big Les might well feature after a promising second half against Fulham. Our defence has a newly restored Ramsdale behind them and has remembered how to keep clean sheets. A win and suddenly Saints are dreaming about the most improbable of outcomes this season - beating Derby's points record. Meanwhile in a darkened room, Russell Martin will be praying for business as usual - that's the difference between Manchester United and Accrington Stanley for his next gig. If it turns out it was possible to get more out of these players his job prospects look pretty bleak. With the new year approaching, Saints fans are experiencing a strange emotion - anticipation. Instead of doing the same things and being surprised by the same results in a dog ate my homework style masterclass in blamelessness we have a new manager and chance to do something different. Instead of the dull ache of creeping horror from a rapidly approach match we have the double edged sword of hope. In Ivan we trust. Edited Sunday at 16:31 by coalman 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarisbury Saint Posted Sunday at 16:29 Share Posted Sunday at 16:29 Great point today, but I still don’t think we look fit or fast enough. Just have to win this one and get past the record low 12 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted Sunday at 16:31 Share Posted Sunday at 16:31 Will Juric have time to drill us in his preferred, 3-4-2-1, and what will it look like?? Archer Dibbling Fernandes Manning BigLes Downes KWP Jan. THB Wood Ramsdale 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted Sunday at 16:51 Share Posted Sunday at 16:51 (edited) Ramsdale; Wood, Bednarek, THB; KWP, Les, Downes, Sugawara; Fernandes, Archer, Onuachu. Rest Dibling, drop Aribo and Armstrong. Both were poor today. Edited Sunday at 16:51 by Harry_SFC 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMrsWallace Posted Sunday at 17:35 Share Posted Sunday at 17:35 West Ham should have too much for us but I'm hoping for a great atmosphere and a gutsy 1-1. Will Charlie Taylor re-emerge for this squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O Houlihan Posted Sunday at 18:06 Share Posted Sunday at 18:06 (edited) 38 minutes ago, OneMrsWallace said: Will Charlie Taylor re-emerge for this squad? He seems like a LB in a back 4 or a LCB in a 3 to me - not really a wing back which Ivan seems to favour. So for him to be in both Wood and Shoehorn would need to be stepped down for him, and Wood has certainly shown enough reasons to keep his place. For me it is a choice of KWP & Manning, or KWP & Sugawara - and do Bree & Manning fit in anywhere? Does Manning step up alongside Downes to play in a double pivot? Can Lallana get fit enough to play there and offer some searching through balls? Or are we playing Aribo or Big Les there? Front 3 kind of depends whether he wants to play two up top, or more likely one. I think our squad strength is on the wing/attacking midfield rather than striker so I think I would play Tall Paul alternating with Archer as dictated by our opponents style/squad. Fernandes/Dibling/Aribo/Lallana all offer something in the supporting roles. Here's what I would go for playing an Ivan Juric formation. KWP told to practice airborne crosses and if he hasn't played any by halftime expect to be substituted for Sugawara. Downes plays the Wanyama enforcer role, while Adam plays the Morgan playmaker role. Ramsdale THB Bednarek Wood KWP Downes (C) Lallana Manning Dibling Fernandes Tall Paul Likely subs: Sugawara (KWP/Manning), Archer (Paul), Aribo (Lallana) , Armstrong (Dibling) Edited Sunday at 18:14 by Patches O Houlihan Gave captaincy to Flynn because he always plays, is central, gets stuck in, and may still be here next year when THB gets poached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted Sunday at 18:14 Share Posted Sunday at 18:14 It’s a must win isn’t it if we’re ever going to kick off the most unlikely of survival stories. Need to play for the win, if we come up short then fair enough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted Sunday at 19:51 Share Posted Sunday at 19:51 Unless IJ is a miracle worker I can only see a draw at best. He will however, have learnt some things today so I’m nearer a draw than a loss. Which I’d take if offered right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted Sunday at 19:51 Share Posted Sunday at 19:51 3 hours ago, Killers Knee said: Will Juric have time to drill us in his preferred, 3-4-2-1, and what will it look like?? Archer Dibbling Fernandes Manning BigLes Downes KWP Jan. THB Wood Ramsdale Not sure Juric will be picking Dibling after seeing him today - he looks set for a spell on the bench which is fair enough at his young age with much still to learn. I didn't think Dibling and Fernandes worked as the pair of attacking midfielders today. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted Sunday at 19:52 Share Posted Sunday at 19:52 (edited) I reckon Big Les and Sulemana will be in the starting 11 for this one Edited Sunday at 20:14 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted Sunday at 19:57 Share Posted Sunday at 19:57 2 minutes ago, trousers said: I reckon Big Les and Sulemana will be in the starting 12 for this one Can certainly see Big Les starting but not sure about Sulemana. Ramsadale Wood Bednarek THB Sugawara KWP Downes Big Les Lallana Fernandes Archer 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted Sunday at 20:15 Share Posted Sunday at 20:15 (edited) I wonder if the players will getting their usual day off tomorrow....?! Edited Sunday at 23:03 by trousers 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted Sunday at 21:12 Share Posted Sunday at 21:12 Having watched the game today I think Juric will see we offered close to zero threat up front. Hopefully he'll have some ideas about improving that. At least it's fresh eyes looking at the problem and not someone deeply embedded in doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted Sunday at 21:17 Share Posted Sunday at 21:17 I don’t think Aribo will be much good if we are going to play a high energy press, he’s not mobile enough. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Special Posted Sunday at 21:24 Share Posted Sunday at 21:24 6 minutes ago, beatlesaint said: I don’t think Aribo will be much good if we are going to play a high energy press, he’s not mobile enough. He looked exhausted before going off, did he have a knock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted Sunday at 21:32 Share Posted Sunday at 21:32 1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said: Unless IJ is a miracle worker I can only see a draw at best. He will however, have learnt some things today so I’m nearer a draw than a loss. Which I’d take if offered right now. Need to be going for the win but a draw would still be progress, yes. Need to stop being such pushovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted Sunday at 22:58 Share Posted Sunday at 22:58 West Ham can be quite good, often not very good. Defend like we did today and another 0-0 is a distinct possibility. Not pretty but baby steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalCommunist Posted Sunday at 23:16 Share Posted Sunday at 23:16 Looking forward to this game. Feels nice saying that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted Monday at 05:02 Share Posted Monday at 05:02 9 hours ago, saintant said: Can certainly see Big Les starting but not sure about Sulemana. Ramsadale Wood Bednarek THB Sugawara KWP Downes Big Les Lallana Fernandes Archer Like that line-up. Get an hour out of Lallana and then bring Dibling on to run at a tiring West Ham. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted Monday at 05:26 Share Posted Monday at 05:26 17 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said: Like that line-up. Get an hour out of Lallana and then bring Dibling on to run at a tiring West Ham. Good call. Happy to see Sugawara and KWP retaining the wing back roles too, rather than Manning. Dibling was below par today, so a sub role might work better. Depending on the state of the game I’d welcome cameo roles for Tall Pall and Sulemana. Very interested to see if Les Ugo can build on his impressive performance yesterday. Suddenly a bit of interest and anticipation in watching Saints has returned. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted Monday at 07:45 Share Posted Monday at 07:45 2 hours ago, austsaint said: Good call. Happy to see Sugawara and KWP retaining the wing back roles too, rather than Manning. Dibling was below par today, so a sub role might work better. Depending on the state of the game I’d welcome cameo roles for Tall Pall and Sulemana. Very interested to see if Les Ugo can build on his impressive performance yesterday. Suddenly a bit of interest and anticipation in watching Saints has returned. I think I read that Jurić’s teams usually put in a high number of crosses? If he’s going to do the same here we might need a left footer at LWB. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted Monday at 08:14 Share Posted Monday at 08:14 3 points incoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WALK DMC Posted Monday at 09:47 Share Posted Monday at 09:47 2 hours ago, for_heaven's_Saint said: I think I read that Jurić’s teams usually put in a high number of crosses? If he’s going to do the same here we might need a left footer at LWB. Isn't Wellington joining in January ? He could be the left footed wing back that we need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Special Posted Monday at 09:53 Share Posted Monday at 09:53 5 minutes ago, WALK DMC said: Isn't Wellington joining in January ? He could be the left footed wing back that we need. Forgot about him, we don't have any room in the squad until some leave? Or is he off to Turkey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted Monday at 09:55 Share Posted Monday at 09:55 Ramsdale kwp tbh bednarek wood manning les downes fernandes archer onachu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted Monday at 09:59 Share Posted Monday at 09:59 3 minutes ago, Baird of the land said: Ramsdale kwp tbh bednarek wood manning les downes fernandes archer onachu Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted Monday at 10:08 Share Posted Monday at 10:08 I'll take a draw, it would represent progress and hopefully another point closer to 17th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted Monday at 10:12 Share Posted Monday at 10:12 I wouldnt be surprised to see Tall Paul start this one. Given the way IJ likes to play and given the fact that on the odd occasion we did get the ball forward against Fulham there was absolutely nobody to hold it up while the midfield could join in its crying out for a target man, especially since we have abandoned "being brave" and are more likely to hit it longer now. Ransdale Suga/Bree, THB, Jan B, Wood, KWP Downes, Fernandes, Les TP, Archer Dibling on the bench to come on and run riot for the last half an hour or so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east-stand-nic Posted Monday at 10:14 Share Posted Monday at 10:14 17 hours ago, Killers Knee said: Will Juric have time to drill us in his preferred, 3-4-2-1, and what will it look like?? Archer Dibbling Fernandes Manning BigLes Downes KWP Jan. THB Wood Ramsdale I think one change for me there. Put TP up on his own to win balls and hold up play, put archer back where dibling is so they can work off each other as I think dibling has issues and needs a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted Monday at 11:11 Share Posted Monday at 11:11 2-1 to saints. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted Monday at 11:19 Share Posted Monday at 11:19 3 hours ago, for_heaven's_Saint said: I think I read that Jurić’s teams usually put in a high number of crosses? If he’s going to do the same here we might need a left footer at LWB. Left footed Ryan Manning competing with Left Footed Welington by mid-January then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midfield_General Posted Monday at 11:23 Share Posted Monday at 11:23 (edited) 19 hours ago, Killers Knee said: Will Juric have time to drill us in his preferred, 3-4-2-1, and what will it look like?? Archer Dibbling Fernandes Manning BigLes Downes KWP Jan. THB Wood Ramsdale Drop Manning, Put KWP on the left and Suga at RWB and I still maintain that that side isn’t that bad. There are obviously no goals in it at this level, but it’s not ‘6 points from 17 games bad’, certainly. Keep it tight as per Fulham, eke out a 1-0 from somewhere, get a little bit of confidence and belief starting to show, and maybe we can have a decent second half of the season. Edited Monday at 11:48 by Midfield_General 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O Houlihan Posted Monday at 11:45 Share Posted Monday at 11:45 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Midfield_General said: Drop Manning, Put KWP on the left and Suga at RWB and I still maintain that that side isn’t that bad. Not ‘6 points from 17 games bad’, certainly. Keep it tight as per Fulham, eke out a 1-0 from somewhere, get a little bit of confidence and belief starting to show, and maybe we can have a decent second half of the season. The problem with playing KWP on the left is that he either runs into trouble on the edge of the area and loses it, or turns and plays a diagonal backwards/infield pass that 9/10 times comes to nothing. He doesn't provide crosses with his favoured right foot when played on the right, so no chance of seeing it when he plays on the left. Manning is left footed, more defensive minded than Suga/KWP thus allowing those more attacking minded fullbacks off the leash to attack properly. When Manning does get through he is capable of putting in a half decent cross. We have seen balls on the floor to Archer cut out endlessly by opposition defenders, which is why I think we need Tall Paul to play. He can hold it up and then play it on to Archer who runs into space, or he can provide knock downs from crosses for Archer who seems to be quite quick with his feet at short range in the box. Edited Monday at 11:46 by Patches O Houlihan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midfield_General Posted Monday at 11:52 Share Posted Monday at 11:52 6 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said: The problem with playing KWP on the left is that he either runs into trouble on the edge of the area and loses it, or turns and plays a diagonal backwards/infield pass that 9/10 times comes to nothing. He doesn't provide crosses with his favoured right foot when played on the right, so no chance of seeing it when he plays on the left. Manning is left footed, more defensive minded than Suga/KWP thus allowing those more attacking minded fullbacks off the leash to attack properly. When Manning does get through he is capable of putting in a half decent cross. We have seen balls on the floor to Archer cut out endlessly by opposition defenders, which is why I think we need Tall Paul to play. He can hold it up and then play it on to Archer who runs into space, or he can provide knock downs from crosses for Archer who seems to be quite quick with his feet at short range in the box. All very fair points and I don’t disagree at all. I just can’t accept that Ryan Manning has any place in a premier league football team. But then neither do McCarthy, Lumley, Sulemana, Armstrong and plenty of others who’ve been playing, and that’s one of the reasons we are where we are. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted Monday at 15:10 Share Posted Monday at 15:10 Just play with determination and give it your best shot, that might be enough. Oh and no fannying around at the back, if it's in the 6 yard box put your damn laces through it - we are not Man City 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WALK DMC Posted Monday at 15:15 Share Posted Monday at 15:15 3 hours ago, Midfield_General said: All very fair points and I don’t disagree at all. I just can’t accept that Ryan Manning has any place in a premier league football team. But then neither do McCarthy, Lumley, Sulemana, Armstrong and plenty of others who’ve been playing, and that’s one of the reasons we are where we are. Weirdly, I've thought that Manning has performed well this season and displayed skills that I wouldn't have given him credit for last season. I'm still not keen with him as left back as I think his defensive abilities get exposed, but as a left wing back, he hasn't let us down this year; and hasn't looked out of place in the Premiership. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted Monday at 15:29 Share Posted Monday at 15:29 13 minutes ago, WALK DMC said: Weirdly, I've thought that Manning has performed well this season and displayed skills that I wouldn't have given him credit for last season. I'm still not keen with him as left back as I think his defensive abilities get exposed, but as a left wing back, he hasn't let us down this year; and hasn't looked out of place in the Premiership. Agree with this and if you're playing wing-backs then the LWB really needs to be left-footed IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted Monday at 15:42 Share Posted Monday at 15:42 Manning's biggest problem is his over reliance on his left foot which unless he is already facing outwards makes him turn back inside and pass backwards which for me is a major impediment. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted Monday at 15:47 Share Posted Monday at 15:47 36 minutes ago, Cabrone said: Just play with determination and give it your best shot, that might be enough. Oh and no fannying around at the back, if it's in the 6 yard box put your damn laces through it - we are not Man City 😀 We're better than Man City, at least according to 'form' table 😂 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted Monday at 16:03 Share Posted Monday at 16:03 (edited) Agree with the concerns about playing KWP on his 'wrong side'... However, given he's one of our few premier league quality players, I'm wondering if we could play him in a midfield role, thus freeing up the left wing back position for a naturally left footed player, whilst playing both Sagu and KWP on the right hand side... #thinkingoutloud Edited Monday at 16:04 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die Mannyschaft Posted Monday at 16:16 Share Posted Monday at 16:16 I think the team is confused up with possession v attaching football or any new style we need to adopt. We only have a few players that naturally run and take players on. More crosses have beeb sent into box but still way shirt on shots on target. I'll go Saints 1-0 WHU but if only one shot on target at 40 mins then Saints 0-1 WHU. A much improved Saints at Fulham just need to get goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted Monday at 17:01 Share Posted Monday at 17:01 19 hours ago, BotleySaint said: Having watched the game today I think Juric will see we offered close to zero threat up front. Stevie Wonder saw that... and so did his dog. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty's Caddy Posted Monday at 18:52 Share Posted Monday at 18:52 2 hours ago, trousers said: Agree with the concerns about playing KWP on his 'wrong side'... However, given he's one of our few premier league quality players, I'm wondering if we could play him in a midfield role, thus freeing up the left wing back position for a naturally left footed player, whilst playing both Sagu and KWP on the right hand side... #thinkingoutloud KWP SERIOUSLY PISS POOR 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted Monday at 19:15 Share Posted Monday at 19:15 22 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said: KWP SERIOUSLY PISS POOR Sssshhh... Hush ye.... Don't shout about it man.... we don't want the truth getting out FFS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted Monday at 19:17 Share Posted Monday at 19:17 2 hours ago, notnowcato said: Stevie Wonder saw that... and so did his dog. Didn't realise Stevie had been to every Saints premier league game under Martin.... Fair play to him for sticking it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyYorkshireSaint Posted Monday at 19:42 Share Posted Monday at 19:42 25 minutes ago, trousers said: Didn't realise Stevie had been to every Saints premier league game under Martin.... Fair play to him for sticking it out... Sometimes they even let him ref the game! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted Monday at 19:48 Share Posted Monday at 19:48 30 minutes ago, trousers said: Didn't realise Stevie had been to every Saints premier league game under Martin.... Fair play to him for sticking it out... Think you need to move on Trousers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Hill Posted Monday at 20:25 Share Posted Monday at 20:25 Please please please please don’t shoehorn in JS ?! Other options are far better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted Monday at 20:31 Share Posted Monday at 20:31 2 minutes ago, Andy Hill said: Please please please please don’t shoehorn in JS ?! Other options are far better. The 3 centre backs performed pretty well at Fulham watched by IJ so I would think Stephens will have to sit it out until that changes and, meanwhile, try to impress him in training 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Special Posted Monday at 22:23 Share Posted Monday at 22:23 1 hour ago, saintant said: The 3 centre backs performed pretty well at Fulham watched by IJ so I would think Stephens will have to sit it out until that changes and, meanwhile, try to impress him in training I heard Stephens drove into training today playing death metal music loudly from his car.... 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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