Saints 0-1 West Ham - Match Thread

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

I hope Juric does the same as Bielsa with Leeds, and stays with us when we go down. 

A decent manager is hard to fine.

 

Surely that’ll be the case? He must know that with what he’s got to work with, the situation we’re in the chances of us staying up are very small, expect he’s agreed to an 18 month deal which would guarantee him an extension if we get promoted next season. 

[johnnyboy]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Surely that’ll be the case? He must know that with what he’s got to work with, the situation we’re in the chances of us staying up are very small, expect he’s agreed to an 18 month deal which would guarantee him an extension if we get promoted next season. 

That worked so well with our previous manager !

[Chez]

I just watched salah curl yet another goal into the far left hand corner after cutting inside and I immediately think back to the Dibling chance. He has to do better there. (Let's hope we keep him long enough to see him taking chances like that on a regular basis).  The game was there for the taking, but our failure in the summer to sign any quality in the forward areas continues to hurt us.

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, Oldandtired said:

I enjoyed it . Giving up hope of staying up has freed me up to actually enjoy what's on offer without worrying if we're going to win or lose. Several positives for the day, TP, Les and I actually thought Wood played well.

A breath of fresh air after the Martin PL nonsense. 

 

I know it’s time to let go of the frustration  of the Martin era, but watching Les Ugo and Onuacho today, and the return of an orthodox set up and style of play confirmed the suspicion that Martin misjudged and mismanaged players and didn’t have the wit to see beyond his farcical obsession with possession Football.

[John B]

7 minutes ago, Chez said:

I just watched salah curl yet another goal into the far left hand corner after cutting inside and I immediately think back to the Dibling chance. He has to do better there. (Let's hope we keep him long enough to see him taking chances like that on a regular basis).  The game was there for the taking, but our failure in the summer to sign any quality in the forward areas continues to hurt us.

Our failure every summer to sign any quality in the forward areas continues to hurt us.

[Badger]

33 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Surely that’ll be the case? He must know that with what he’s got to work with, the situation we’re in the chances of us staying up are very small, expect he’s agreed to an 18 month deal which would guarantee him an extension if we get promoted next season. 

Interesting point though whether there is any truth in the six month break clause for the end of the season. 

[Badger]

12 minutes ago, Chez said:

I just watched salah curl yet another goal into the far left hand corner after cutting inside and I immediately think back to the Dibling chance. He has to do better there. (Let's hope we keep him long enough to see him taking chances like that on a regular basis).  The game was there for the taking, but our failure in the summer to sign any quality in the forward areas continues to hurt us.

It’s a failure over the last three summers in my book to sign a decent striker. 

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, Badger said:

It’s a failure over the last three summers in my book to sign a decent striker. 

not just a striker, its quality out wide too. Brereton, Fraser and Cornet...we were possibly stronger last season out wide.

[Cabrone]

That was night and day compared to Russball. Such a shame the new guy didn't have another 10 games, we could have pulled off an escape.

SR - you are useless.

 

[jamesfp1]

Should have won this 3-0 with an onuachu hat trick. Not to be. Let's batter palace. 

[jamesfp1]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

A lack of quality goal scorers is a problem that will transcend any manager, style or vibe.

We have one in archer. Will have taken Juric one game to realise starting AA was a mistake. 

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

A lack of quality goal scorers is a problem that will transcend any manager, style or vibe.

True, but at least we are competing now  

Tbh you, the club and a few others that were defending Martin at all costs look very silly already. 
 

Clear to see the players are unfit and improving already under a better coach. 

[captainchris]

5 hours ago, Mr X said:

Having terrible strikers at the club cost us that game! 

Well not really. Tall Paul created chances that wouldn’t have been there without him.  
We were visibly tired second half and that is down to RM is his part time strategy.

[Whitey Grandad]

Surely we cannot overlook Sugawara’s part in the corner that led to their goal. Total miscontrol of his attempted pass back to Ramsdale. He has the same mistake in him every game.

[warsash saint]

4 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

To be fair Tessem has been pretty consistent in his dislike of Russball

Yeah but it gives Ducky yet more opportunities to crowbar the word 'lego' into yet another post 

[Convict Colony]

2min of highlights currently 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV4JPKggaQY

After watching it I would say TP did well with 2 of his attempts, unfortunatley like fernandes the easier one went straight to the keeper, but encouring stuff.

Edited 27 December, 2024 by Convict Colony

[Saint_clark]

9 hours ago, Chez said:

I just watched salah curl yet another goal into the far left hand corner after cutting inside and I immediately think back to the Dibling chance. He has to do better there. (Let's hope we keep him long enough to see him taking chances like that on a regular basis).  The game was there for the taking, but our failure in the summer to sign any quality in the forward areas continues to hurt us.

I watch chances like that and I think...why don't we just get him stood on the corner of the 18 yard box taking one touch and shooting for an hour every day? 

[Saint_clark]

6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Surely we cannot overlook Sugawara’s part in the corner that led to their goal. Total miscontrol of his attempted pass back to Ramsdale. He has the same mistake in him every game.

It was bad but when he went off we lost a lot of attacking momentum. I would stick with him and try to work on ironing those mistakes out, he's only 24 and it's his first season in the league which has been hampered by trying to play Russball for the entirety of it so far. 

[benjii]

9 hours ago, Badger said:

Interesting point though whether there is any truth in the six month break clause for the end of the season. 

If that clause is there, it's really for our benefit. If Juric turns out shite and we get stuffed regularly between now and the end of the season, I'm not sure people will be clamouring for him to stay next season.

[benjii]

9 hours ago, Chez said:

not just a striker, its quality out wide too. Brereton, Fraser and Cornet...we were possibly stronger last season out wide.

Yep, Edozie (and probably SAA, frankly) would surely have done better than thos guys?

[benjii]

47 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I watch chances like that and I think...why don't we just get him stood on the corner of the 18 yard box taking one touch and shooting for an hour every day? 

Maybe we do?

Doing it in training isn't the same as executing under pressure in a match. Lee Holmes could probably bury it 8 times out of 10 in training, but he ain't Mo Salah!

[egg]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

2min of highlights currently 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV4JPKggaQY

After watching it I would say TP did well with 2 of his attempts, unfortunatley like fernandes the easier one went straight to the keeper, but encouring stuff.

He should have scored the 1st and 3rd imo.

Their goal was preventable. Ramsdale dithered. 

Dibling not slipping him in was really poor judgement.

Very encouraging on the whole though - not leaking like a sieve, getting forward and and creating chances is progress.

Forget Derby's record low points, we may well get 20 points and beat Pompey's 19 points from 2010. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

It was bad but when he went off we lost a lot of attacking momentum. I would stick with him and try to work on ironing those mistakes out, he's only 24 and it's his first season in the league which has been hampered by trying to play Russball for the entirety of it so far. 

Eventually people are going to have to accept that Suga is a limited player who makes a lot of quite bad mistakes. You’re going to start to get diminishing returns on the whole, “yeah but the guy who was sacked before Christmas…” argument.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

2min of highlights currently 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV4JPKggaQY

After watching it I would say TP did well with 2 of his attempts, unfortunatley like fernandes the easier one went straight to the keeper, but encouring stuff.

Yeah I agree. For me, the people knocking him are being ridiculously harsh. He was an absolute nuisance the whole game - winning flick ons, battling for the ball, bringing others into play, and holding up long balls to get us up the pitch. West ham are one of the most physically strong sides in the league (particularly defensively), and they really struggled with him.

People also forget he has barely played all season, is it seriously realistic for him to come in and starting pinging the ball in the back of the net as if he's a striker in a good vein of form? 

A lot to like from TP. Would hope we keep him and play him regularly now. There were a few instances yesterday where a bit more fluidity in the style of play would have seen runners in behind or flick ons coming off for us. 

Edited 27 December, 2024 by Saint86

[Fabrice29]

8 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

True, but at least we are competing now  

Tbh you, the club and a few others that were defending Martin at all costs look very silly already. 
 

Clear to see the players are unfit and improving already under a better coach. 

I was defending Martin because he was hampered by not having a goal scorer. I’ll defend Juric for the same reasons. I’m also not sure 1 game is enough to make wild conclusions about player improvements just as I’m sure people wouldn’t make wild conclusions about the players who were poor yesterday declining under the new manager. 

That said, I enjoyed us having a physical threat up top which is something we’ve lacked since last season. 

[egg]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I was defending Martin because he was hampered by not having a goal scorer. I’ll defend Juric for the same reasons. I’m also not sure 1 game is enough to make wild conclusions about player improvements just as I’m sure people wouldn’t make wild conclusions about the players who were poor yesterday declining under the new manager. 

That said, I enjoyed us having a physical threat up top which is something we’ve lacked since last season. 

Martin was hampered by Martin. As were the players. 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I watch chances like that and I think...why don't we just get him stood on the corner of the 18 yard box taking one touch and shooting for an hour every day? 

Well maybe we will now that training is being taken more professionally.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Eventually people are going to have to accept that Suga is a limited player who makes a lot of quite bad mistakes. You’re going to start to get diminishing returns on the whole, “yeah but the guy who was sacked before Christmas…” argument.

I expect individual players to improve with time under IJ and his coaches. Ok, we lost yesterday but a vast improvement compared with RMs last 2 home matches when we shipped 10 goals and were lucky it wasn't more.

[a1ex2001]

19 minutes ago, saintant said:

I expect individual players to improve with time under IJ and his coaches. Ok, we lost yesterday but a vast improvement compared with RMs last 2 home matches when we shipped 10 goals and were lucky it wasn't more.

Totally agree it is nice to be talking about a game we could have (probably should have) won rather than another error strewn mess where we topped the possession stats without ever looking like scoring.  If we carry on in that vain for the rest of the season we will pick up goals and hopefully be in a position to hit the ground running next season.  We know this squad is more than capable of an immediate return to the top flight.

[BotleySaint]

Reading Juric's after match comments, especially on Onuachu's performance. 

It's just feels so weird to have a manager who is actually trying to solve our problems and try new things instead of just insisting he is right, despite results.

[64saint]

And contrary to popular belief there is actually a team in the Premier league with a worse record  than us in the last couple of months....Man City !!!!!

[Chez]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

I expect individual players to improve with time under IJ and his coaches. 

I expect the side to improve as a functioning unit (it would be hard not to), and  player confidence to increase with results, but in terms of talent and ability, that is only going to improve with better recruitment. Is IJ going to be involved in that?

[AlexLaw76]

Sugawara is f-ing shite.

another crap signing IMO

[Turkish]

52 minutes ago, 64saint said:

And contrary to popular belief there is actually a team in the Premier league with a worse record  than us in the last couple of months....Man City !!!!!

funny how this slump started after Pep said he learnt a lot from Lego.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, BotleySaint said:

Reading Juric's after match comments, especially on Onuachu's performance. 

It's just feels so weird to have a manager who is actually trying to solve our problems and try new things instead of just insisting he is right, despite results.

You mean it wasn't the fans fault or the players for not doing what Juric asked them too perfectly?

[Wade Garrett]

Just now, Turkish said:

funny how this slump started after Pep said he learnt a lot from Lego.

Good, arrogant piss-taking prick.

[Ted Bates Statue]

14 hours ago, Turkish said:

Surely that’ll be the case? He must know that with what he’s got to work with, the situation we’re in the chances of us staying up are very small, expect he’s agreed to an 18 month deal which would guarantee him an extension if we get promoted next season. 

If he can get us something like 20 points from the fixtures in second half of the season, there would be more than enough encouraging signs that he could crush the Championship and bring some momentum on our return to the PL to give it a proper go next time around, a bit like Marco Silva with Fulham or Benitez at Newcastle.

[Gloucester Saint]

56 minutes ago, 64saint said:

And contrary to popular belief there is actually a team in the Premier league with a worse record  than us in the last couple of months....Man City !!!!!

Oh Pep did learn from Russell Martin 👍 

[Saint_clark]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Eventually people are going to have to accept that Suga is a limited player who makes a lot of quite bad mistakes. You’re going to start to get diminishing returns on the whole, “yeah but the guy who was sacked before Christmas…” argument.

True. But we've had more games than training sessions since he was sacked, so he's got a bit of time yet.

[St Louis]

Sorry if I've missed it, but where was Jack Stephens yesterday?

Total Saints Pod said he was eligible to return for Boxing Day, but he wasnt even on the bench. Were they wrong? Was he injured/ill? Or did he just not make Ivan's squad? I havent seen anything about it anywhere.

[Suhari]

17 hours ago, Cabrone said:

That was night and day compared to Russball. Such a shame the new guy didn't have another 10 games, we could have pulled off an escape.

SR - you are useless.

 

I posted on another thread, a month or two back, that come the end of the season I believe we will be lamenting that the new manager would keep us up if only he'd had a few games more.

Think we're down; but we're going down swinging. I'm looking forward to re-enjoying football again. Football played properly.

Yesterday's match was fun.

[John B]

4 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

If he can get us something like 20 points from the fixtures in second half of the season, there would be more than enough encouraging signs that he could crush the Championship and bring some momentum on our return to the PL to give it a proper go next time around, a bit like Marco Silva with Fulham or Benitez at Newcastle.

Crushing the Championship is not the problem as the top three currently there were all playing in the PL last season or the previous one.

 

The problem is getting top class players in to compete in the PL where currently the bottom three are teams which were in the Championship last season

 

The general standard of the PL is much stronger than a few years ago with Villa Brighton Nottm Forest Bournemouth and Newcastle challenging for places in Europe and Fulham and Brentford proving to be good PL teams

 

I just feel the days of us being a genuine PL club are over without a decent amount of money and a realistic transfer policy

[Galway saint]

There was a stat on prime yesterday that said we have yet to score from a set piece this season and have had 90 or so corners so far. That coupled with the goals from fuck ups shows how badly coached the team has been. Unfortunately no matter how good the new guy is the forward recruitment means we are down. Thought if we could get a win at either fulham or home at w ham we could maybe get some momentum but yesterday showed it’s pretty hopeless when you just can’t score 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, St Louis said:

Sorry if I've missed it, but where was Jack Stephens yesterday?

Total Saints Pod said he was eligible to return for Boxing Day, but he wasnt even on the bench. Were they wrong? Was he injured/ill? Or did he just not make Ivan's squad? I havent seen anything about it anywhere.

Eligible but injured.

[Galway saint]

39 minutes ago, John B said:

Crushing the Championship is not the problem as the top three currently there were all playing in the PL last season or the previous one.

 

The problem is getting top class players in to compete in the PL where currently the bottom three are teams which were in the Championship last season

 

The general standard of the PL is much stronger than a few years ago with Villa Brighton Nottm Forest Bournemouth and Newcastle challenging for places in Europe and Fulham and Brentford proving to be good PL teams

 

I just feel the days of us being a genuine PL club are over without a decent amount of money and a realistic transfer policy

Last season the three that came up went down and the same could well happen again this. That’s not good for the health of the sport and something wil need to be done to address that.. You can’t now even spend to stay up due to FFP. The last team to do that were forest. I think somehow we need to keep hold of our better players for next season and then if we do get promoted we have a fighting chance with a well established core to the team- and we have to stop signing mediocre forwards.

[davefizzy14]

I thought yesterday in Ivan Jurić's first game in charge, we were front footed, aggressive and attack minded. I really enjoyed our performance yesterday, just dissapointing about the result. Lots to take into the next game on Sunday where hopefully we can get a result. The standouts for me were Onuachu, KWP and Ugochukwu who were all outstanding 😊

Edited 27 December, 2024 by davefizzy14

[nparsons80]

25 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

I thought yesterday in Ivan Jurić's first game in charge, we were front footed, aggressive and attack minded. I really enjoyed our performance yesterday, just dissapointing about the result. Lots to take into the next game on Sunday where hopefully we can get a result. The standouts for me were Onuachu, KWP and Ugochukwu who were all outstanding 😊

Agree with you! We lost but most here seem happy. I was at the game. You mentioned Tall Paul. He was a brick wall when holding up the ball and showed a turn of speed when turning towards goal. Looked dangerous from his headers if a ball reached him in front of the goal.

Edited 27 December, 2024 by nparsons80

[Harry_SFC]

3 hours ago, Galway saint said:

Last season the three that came up went down and the same could well happen again this. That’s not good for the health of the sport and something wil need to be done to address that.. You can’t now even spend to stay up due to FFP. The last team to do that were forest. I think somehow we need to keep hold of our better players for next season and then if we do get promoted we have a fighting chance with a well established core to the team- and we have to stop signing mediocre forwards.

Says it all - the last team to stay up had to break the rules in order to do so. 

[david in sweden]

On 26/12/2024 at 22:52, Chez said:

I just watched Salah curl yet another goal into the far left hand corner after cutting inside and I immediately think back to the Dibling chance. He has to do better there. (Let's hope we keep him long enough to see him taking chances like that on a regular basis).  The game was there for the taking, but our failure in the summer to sign any quality in the forward areas continues to hurt us.

Think you are sounding .. a bit over-critical of Dibling there (Chez).   

Agree it was a good chance, and he might have done better, but tired legs in the 80th-odd minute wasn't the best timing, as he had worked 

his socks off during the match, and looked really tired, so that comparing him to Salah - in the same sentence - is perhaps a tad unfair. 

 

Dibling is still only 18, and has barely a dozen Prem. starts and to be fair, his goal-scoring record at Academy level was a bit  hit-and-miss.

It's true to say that his  "perfect hattrick " at St. James Park against Newcastle's U21 side gave him big headlines, but he is hardly a big goalscorer.

At 16 years old... TD,  JJ Morgan and Dom Ballard showed great promise, but Ballard was.. by far...the better striker. (c.30 goals at U18/ U21 level)

and only Ballard's long injury spell stopped him from getting the first team place that Dibling now occupies. 

 

As for Salah.. I don't think he was any great shakes at 18 either. Unsure of the facts here, (but I think Salah was a Chelsea reject around that age?)

If Dibling lasts out the season, and is still attracting interest he may well move on to a " big club" , but he is still developing and likely  - in time -

he may well descend to their U21 level that his age demands, and history shows that some of our youngsters who moved of late, have struggled

badly after their big money moves ..(Lavia, Livramento ) and several others who have left us seeking greener pastures, have found it a struggle.

(Kammie Doyle's moved to Brighton failed and he is presently on Exeter's bench, and JJ Morgan's move to Chelsea has left him in the wilderness).

 

I agree with much of your post, but at 30+...Salah's goal-scoring abilities should not be mentioned in the same breath as Dibling's youthful talents.  

 

[Chez]

58 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Think you are sounding .. a bit over-critical of Dibling there (Chez).   

Agree it was a good chance, and he might have done better, but tired legs in the 80th-odd minute wasn't the best timing, as he had worked 

his socks off during the match, and looked really tired, so that comparing him to Salah - in the same sentence - is perhaps a tad unfair. 

 

Dibling is still only 18, and has barely a dozen Prem. starts and to be fair, his goal-scoring record at Academy level was a bit  hit-and-miss.

It's true to say that his  "perfect hattrick " at St. James Park against Newcastle's U21 side gave him big headlines, but he is hardly a big goalscorer.

At 16 years old... TD,  JJ Morgan and Dom Ballard showed great promise, but Ballard was.. by far...the better striker. (c.30 goals at U18/ U21 level)

and only Ballard's long injury spell stopped him from getting the first team place that Dibling now occupies. 

 

As for Salah.. I don't think he was any great shakes at 18 either. Unsure of the facts here, (but I think Salah was a Chelsea reject around that age?)

If Dibling lasts out the season, and is still attracting interest he may well move on to a " big club" , but he is still developing and likely  - in time -

he may well descend to their U21 level that his age demands, and history shows that some of our youngsters who moved of late, have struggled

badly after their big money moves ..(Lavia, Livramento ) and several others who have left us seeking greener pastures, have found it a struggle.

(Kammie Doyle's moved to Brighton failed and he is presently on Exeter's bench, and JJ Morgan's move to Chelsea has left him in the wilderness).

 

I agree with much of your post, but at 30+...Salah's goal-scoring abilities should not be mentioned in the same breath as Dibling's youthful talents.  

 

Dibling came on in the 73rd minute. He was fresh as a daisy.

I am certainly not expecting Dibling to do what Salah does, but he should have done better. Hit the target or even just got near the target.

My point really was that we seriously lack quality in the final third. Even with a good performance and chances created, we still lose and we will continue to do so without talent up front and out wide.  Dibling has been brilliant to watch. It's fantastic to have a talent come through once again, but we need goals this season, so if he can't be expected to deliver them, someone else must.