Jump to content

Ivan Juric

FarehamSaintJames

By FarehamSaintJames
in The Saints

 Share

Recommended Posts

Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

You've completely lost me. Formations/systems are overrated? Not important?

Our best two chances today fell to Manning for fuck sake.

It was a shit game plan, and not for the first time

 

We've had 5 managers over our last 2 seasons in the PL. Each one had to their own ideas, systems, formations. Do you really think our issue is we haven't yet stumbled on a magic tactic? 

Oh and btw there is a core group of players who have played under each one, some of which have been trying to leave over that time, but nobody else wants and there's a few of them still in todays starting line up ffs :D  but yeah, 5 at the back is easier to shout about.

Edited by Fabrice29
  • Like 2
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Ok, let's remove everyone we bought this summer and buy 4 x £25m players. Here is your squad to add to, which positions would you buy and what formation/team would you play?

Macca, Lumley

KWP, Bedders, Manning, Bree, Stephens

Aribo, Sulemana, Smallbone, Charles, Dibling (even though we didn't know he was going to play his way into the side)

Onuachu, Stewart, Armstrong

 

That would be 19 players, plus two loans and the remaining four slots being filled by Edozie, Bazunu and a couple more like Fernandes in the £10-15m price range.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That would be 19 players, plus two loans and the remaining four slots being filled by Edozie, Bazunu and a couple more like Fernandes in the £10-15m price range.

But the point is the £100m or so would have been spent, so you can't have the Fernandes couple. But yes, forgot about Edozie, and Baz has been injured for half the season.

Either way, £100m doesn't touch the sides when we have a squad as poor as ours was when we got promoted. We needed to spend circa £200m, and get all the transfers spot on (so none of that on THB or Downes) to give ourselves a chance.

Edited by Farmer Saint
  • Haha 1
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But the point is the £100m or so would have been spent, so you can't have the Fernandes couple. But yes, forgot about Edozie, and Baz has been injured for half the season.

Either way, £100m doesn't touch the sides when we have a squad as poor as ours was when we got promoted. We needed to spend circa £200m, and get all the transfers spot on (so none of that on THB or Downes) to give ourselves a chance.

Five or six decent players in the region of £15-25m, plus a couple of decent loans, would have been far, far better than the absolute dross we ended up signing.

  • Like 2
Sarnia Cherie

Sarnia Cherie

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yep let's hope Spors has someone else lined up. 

And who is that likely to be? Nathan Jones, Reuben Selles, Russell Martin and Ivan Juric. All on SR's watch. I have zero faith in their ability to appoint a decent manager.

  • Like 4
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But the point is the £100m or so would have been spent, so you can't have the Fernandes couple. But yes, forgot about Edozie, and Baz has been injured for half the season.

Either way, £100m doesn't touch the sides when we have a squad as poor as ours was when we got promoted. We needed to spend circa £200m, and get all the transfers spot on (so none of that on THB or Downes) to give ourselves a chance.

I'm not sure about that.

Decent combative centre mid x 2 - 50m. (Fernandes was about 15m)

Striker 30m

GK 20m

CB 20m

LB 20m (as it happens we seem to have signed a decent one much cheaper)

That's 140m

----------GK---------

KWP-- CB-- Jan B--LB

--------CM--CM-----

Dibling---Aribo---Sule/Armstrong 

--------Striker/TP------

Then a couple of loans for depth.

Could have a bench of:

Macca, Bree, Stephens, ABK?!, Manning, Loan, Loan, Armstrong, TP

The problem is that we signed players like Fraser, BBD and Archer that were no better than we had, wasted money on Lallana and Cornet, and cant get ABK on the pitch. THB hasn't been great but the midfield protection is lacking.

Plus crappy tactics.

 

 

Edited by benjii
  • Like 1
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, benjii said:

I'm not sure about that.

Decent combative centre mid x 2 - 50m. (Fernandes was about 15m)

Striker 30m

GK 20m

CB 20m

LB 20m (as it happens we seem to have signed a decent one much cheaper)

That's 140m

----------GK---------

KWP-- CB-- Jan B--LB

--------CM--CM-----

Dibling---Aribo---Sule/Armstrong 

--------Striker/TP------

Then a couple of loans for depth.

Could have a bench of:

Macca, Bree, Stephens, ABK?!, Manning, Loan, Loan, Armstrong, TP

The problem is that we signed players like Fraser, BBD and Archer that were no better than we had, wasted money on Lallana and Cornet, and cant get ABK on the pitch. THB hasn't been great but the midfield protection is lacking.

Plus crappy tactics.

 

 

We're not staying up with that though, and that's more than we had to spend (especially taking into account the much higher wages we'd have paid for PL players rather than Championship ones).

saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yeah and so did the previous one, and the one before that, and the one before that and the one before that. 

Not sure what point you are making other than agreeing with me so thanks for that.

  • Like 1
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We're not staying up with that though

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends who we signed. 

Probably only need about 31 points to stay up this year, so we could at least have given it a go.

To be at this point in the season and have Bree and Manning as regular starters is mental.

  • Like 2
aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We're not staying up with that though, and that's more than we had to spend (especially taking into account the much higher wages we'd have paid for PL players rather than Championship ones).

I agree. The problem was that the team that got promoted barely had a Premier League quality player in it. Ideally you want to keep the bones of the side and add a few top players but we needed to basically buy a whole new side to stand a chance of staying up and we just couldn’t afford that.

Adam Armstrong was our best player, that says it all.

Edited by aintforever
SambaMaverick

SambaMaverick

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We've had 5 managers over our last 2 seasons in the PL. Each one had to their own ideas, systems, formations. Do you really think our issue is we haven't yet stumbled on a magic tactic? 

Oh and btw there is a core group of players who have played under each one, some of which have been trying to leave over that time, but nobody else wants and there's a few of them still in todays starting line up ffs :D  but yeah, 5 at the back is easier to shout about.

You want Juric in charge next season then?

I just want to make sure I've got you right here

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

If it's possible to get a fairly ordinary bunch of players to the top of the premier league (line-up when that happened below) surely there's a manager out there that could've got more than 9 points from 24 games out the current bunch of mediocre players...?

 

Screenshot_20250208-183513.png

Edited by trousers
  • Like 2
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, trousers said:

If it's possible to get a fairly ordinary bunch of players to the top of the premier league (line-up when that happened below) surely there's a manager out there that could've got more than 9 points from 24 games out the current bunch of mediocre players...?

 

Screenshot_20250208-183513.png

The biggest takeaway from that team was the fact we had a midfield, Romeu was pivotal and provided genuine steel. Look at how pathetic we are in the middle nowadays, even last season was painful to watch.

I'd love a Romeu type in our 11 again, but we have no one even fit to lace his boots.

The bunch of players Juric has inherited is the most underprepared and ill-suited bunch for PL football, and even more ill-suited for the style of play he wants to play (as it was built for pass, pass, pass). It's a right old mess we've got ourselves into, it's going to take some time and probably a good few managers to get through this next few years.

  • Like 2
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, benjii said:

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends who we signed. 

Probably only need about 31 points to stay up this year, so we could at least have given it a go.

To be at this point in the season and have Bree and Manning as regular starters is mental.

We're not scoring enough with Aribo, Dibling and Sule behind a new striker, and we're conceding too many with Bednarek in a back 4.

In my opinion.

Edited by Farmer Saint
Had to change as other members seem to think a hypothetical situation can be commented on as fact.
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The biggest takeaway from that team was the fact we had a midfield, Romeu was pivotal and provided genuine steel. Look at how pathetic we are in the middle nowadays, even last season was painful to watch.

I'd love a Romeu type in our 11 again, but we have no one even fit to lace his boots.

The bunch of players Juric has inherited is the most underprepared and ill-suited bunch for PL football, and even more ill-suited for the style of play he wants to play (as it was built for pass, pass, pass). It's a right old mess we've got ourselves into, it's going to take some time and probably a good few managers to get through this next few years.

I'm inclined to agree, but do you think any of our post-Ralph managers would have got that 2020/21 squad anywhere near the top of the premier league...? (Yes, I know I was (am) prone to blowing smoke up Ralph's arse, but even he ran out of steam/ideas in the end and had to go)

Edited by trousers
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Just now, Farmer Saint said:

We're not scoring enough with Aribo, Dibling and Sule behind a new striker, and we're conceding too many with Bednarek in a back 4.

OK. Glad you've cleared that up for certain.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, trousers said:

If it's possible to get a fairly ordinary bunch of players to the top of the premier league (line-up when that happened below) surely there's a manager out there that could've got more than 9 points from 24 games out the current bunch of mediocre players...?

 

Screenshot_20250208-183513.png

And yet the same Manager struggled with those same players the following season.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, benjii said:

OK. Glad you've cleared that up for certain.

Sorry, didn't realise on a forum I needed to put IMO on a post about a hypothetical situation, but I will just for your benefit.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Just now, Farmer Saint said:

And yet the same Manager struggled with those same players the following season.

It's almost as if there are several factors that determine outcomes; the players and manager to name but two....

  • Haha 1
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm inclined to agree, but do you think any of our post-Ralph managers would have got that 2020/21 squad anywhere near the top of the premier league...? (Yes, I know I was (am) prone to blowing smoke up Ralph's arse, but even he ran out of steam/ideas in the end and had to go)

I think that snapshot of an 11 isn't the true story though, Danny Ings was a key part to our success during that calendar year - goals make so much difference to any team. Shortly after that we fell through the floor for what it's worth!

I've always been a big Ralph fan and I think he got the maximum out of what he had available to him, but he ran out of steam due to years of zero investment. I don't think anyone would be able to do much with the above 11 over a period of time though.

  • Like 3
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

And yet the same Manager struggled with those same players the following season.

Probably something to do with FFP, or something... ;)

Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

And who is that likely to be? Nathan Jones, Reuben Selles, Russell Martin and Ivan Juric. All on SR's watch. I have zero faith in their ability to appoint a decent manager.

The fact that Spors at least has a track record is promising. He isn't (wasn't) part of SR, so deserves a chance.

Edited by Harry_SFC
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
Just now, trousers said:

It's almost as if there are several factors that determine outcomes; the players and manager to name but two....

Absolutely - not sure anyone has said differently. How did we get on after we got to the top of the League though?

Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

You want Juric in charge next season then?

I just want to make sure I've got you right here

I don't care for this manager or his game plan (I'm not a massive fan of reactive football really and much preferred watching us under Martin, although I'm aware people cant fathom that). But I'm not jumping on some managerial or tactic hating train because it doesn't matter what system we play, what formation etc, the players you ask to implement it need to be good enough phsyically, technically and mentally and just like under Martin, I don't think the ones we have are.

What I want next season is a completely fresh set of attackers (apart from Dibling and Fernandes in an ideal world obviously) and then I can start judging managers maybe. We currently have an attack that weren't trusted to get us up last season, thats a bigger concern rather than the manager.

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We finished 15th on 43 points, with a much better team than we have now.

Even more of a miracle he got them so high in the first place then.... ;) #notbeingentirelyserioushere(justincasenotobvious)

But one assumes we'd all kill for a manager who could finish 15th with 43 points with a bunch of mainly  mediocre players... :)

Edited by trousers
  • Like 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The biggest takeaway from that team was the fact we had a midfield, Romeu was pivotal and provided genuine steel. Look at how pathetic we are in the middle nowadays, even last season was painful to watch.

I'd love a Romeu type in our 11 again, but we have no one even fit to lace his boots.

The bunch of players Juric has inherited is the most underprepared and ill-suited bunch for PL football, and even more ill-suited for the style of play he wants to play (as it was built for pass, pass, pass). It's a right old mess we've got ourselves into, it's going to take some time and probably a good few managers to get through this next few years.

Lavia is a good player but missed a lot of games, and for Romeo not to be replaced was astonishing. Still not been replaced and not signed another central midfielder who has a backbone let alone put their foot in. Downes gets booked for niggling fouls, Oriol would take them for dangerous moments and to be the best memory never got a second booking.

Downes, Aribo, Smallbone - as someone who grew up in the era of Jimmy Case that’s depressing, and slightly younger fans experienced Morgan and Victor, then Oriol. Quite some downgrade from theirs. 

  • Like 1
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

I do find it hard to be either for or against the manager at this stage, it really is a sad state of affairs that we have people calling for his head already. The problems are way deeper than a manager appointed a couple of months ago.

Things haven't improved because we have shit players, who are hamstrung by a losing habit. They are mentally fragile as it is, so losing every week is going to be enough to end some of them.

How we prepared for this season will forever haunt me. Martin and his cronies have a lot to answer for, he was overseeing the clusterfuck.

  • Like 3
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I don't care for this manager or his game plan (I'm not a massive fan of reactive football really and much preferred watching us under Martin, although I'm aware people cant fathom that). But I'm not jumping on some managerial or tactic hating train because it doesn't matter what system we play, what formation etc, the players you ask to implement it need to be good enough phsyically, technically and mentally and just like under Martin, I don't think the ones we have are.

What I want next season is a completely fresh set of attackers (apart from Dibling and Fernandes in an ideal world obviously) and then I can start judging managers maybe. We currently have an attack that weren't trusted to get us up last season, thats a bigger concern rather than the manager.

This.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

His weird 3 at the back man marking system will see us fight it out for 9th place next season

crap manager for us

#jurico

 

 

And you thought Martin was bad...

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I do find it hard to be either for or against the manager at this stage, it really is a sad state of affairs that we have people calling for his head already. The problems are way deeper than a manager appointed a couple of months ago.

Things haven't improved because we have shit players, who are hamstrung by a losing habit. They are mentally fragile as it is, so losing every week is going to be enough to end some of them.

How we prepared for this season will forever haunt me. Martin and his cronies have a lot to answer for, he was overseeing the clusterfuck.

We won last week.

Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

His weird 3 at the back man marking system will see us fight it out for 9th place next season

crap manager for us

It looks like we’ve gone from a manager totally wedded to a system of play to another manager totally wedded to a system of play.

They also share the opinion that Will Smallbone is the man to bring on if we’re losing.

  • Like 3
Galway saint

Galway saint

Posted
Posted

We've won what 2 PL games in 37 and in that time we've had 5 managers. Theres come a point when you have to look elsewhere.

I don't know whether Juric is a decent manager. He's got a fucking shit squad and was given nothing extra in the transfer window ( which was a good thing) but I just don't see how we can make any informed decision on his abilities this season in the circumstances. What do people expect ?

Whoever we brought in would have struggled to get a tune out of our midfield and attacking options and today highlighted how poor a side we are.

It's another loss today in a horrific season and we just need it to end as there's no fun in this. 

  • Like 1
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Spin another PSR yarn!

There is a thread for that, this isn't it.

Please keep on topic about how much you want this manager out and consider setting up a dynamic and popular hashtag (along with mocking up a picture of Juric, with the hilarious hashtag on it) to bring it about 🤣🤣🤣

What a plonker.

Edited by Farmer Saint
Sorry, forgot he did a picture as well 🤣🤣🤣
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, madge said:

Can we get a sports republic out banner please… these complete bunch of incompetent 🔔 ends are the issue. 

Tbh, I think we need to give the new setup a chance - they need a good 12 to 18 months before we can really judge them.

Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

His weird 3 at the back man marking system will see us fight it out for 9th place next season

crap manager for us

everyone is playing 3 at the back, so many teams play 3 at the back but its an attacking formation.

The only reason we lost today is the same reason for the last 5 yrs, we have utter shit attackers.

  • Like 1
spyinthesky

spyinthesky

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, madge said:

Can we get a sports republic out banner please… these complete bunch of incompetent 🔔 ends are the issue. 

Whilst understanding your frustration, what's the option.

I dont think Sports Republic have been shy in putting money into the club, its just been the way it has been spent on crap players.

  • Like 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...