Ivan Juric

[tdmickey3]

Just now, Dman said:

Juric being equally as shit, just in a slightly different way, doesn't make Martin any better. 

Yep,he is still fawning over the bloke, hope he has stocked up on tissues for tonight's MNF

[Fabrice29]

31 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He also failed to beat Ipswich in 3 attempts whilst Juric has won every single game against them. This picking one off result is a piece of piss hun.

 

11 minutes ago, Dman said:

Juric being equally as shit, just in a slightly different way, doesn't make Martin any better. 

Which is exactly my point. We’re not any better or any worse and talk of tactical decisions will always be silly in this case. 

[Fabrice29]

20 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yep,he is still fawning over the bloke, hope he has stocked up on tissues for tonight's MNF

Okay Mr ‘we’re never getting promoted under Martin’

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Okay Mr ‘we’re never getting promoted under Martin’

Yep, I was wrong but only just.

Will you ever admit your rose tinted fawning was wrong?

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Which is exactly my point. We’re not any better or any worse and talk of tactical decisions will always be silly in this case. 

Better to watch.

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yep, I was wrong but only just.

Will you ever admit your rose tinted fawning was wrong?

I’ll admit my opinions are subjective. My warnings that things might look different if we sack Martin but we’ll still lose a lot of games were right though. 

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Better to watch.

Now? Like I said, subjective. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

13 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I’ll admit my opinions are subjective. My warnings that things might look different if we sack Martin but we’ll still lose a lot of games were right though. 

Now? Like I said, subjective. 

It might subjective, but if both managers were given the same team but with much better players which yielded the same better results, which style of football would you prefer to watch? For me it would not be Martins boringly predictable game that’s for sure.

[Chez]

10 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It might subjective, but if both managers were given the same team but with much better players which yielded the same better results, which style of football would you prefer to watch? For me it would not be Martins boringly predictable game that’s for sure.

is there much difference between the two styles?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Just now, Chez said:

is there much difference between the two styles?

Clearly not in terms of results, but surely it was obvious from my post that I consider there to be enough of a difference to make the point. It could be argued that the difference would be even greater if Juric had the type of,players at his disposal to suit his style of football. Are you trying tell us that you don’t recognise a difference between Martin’s type of football and Juric’s? Really? 😳

[Fabrice29]

28 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It might subjective, but if both managers were given the same team but with much better players which yielded the same better results, which style of football would you prefer to watch? For me it would not be Martins boringly predictable game that’s for sure.

Well it’s a pointless question really but yes, I’d much rather watch us under Martin than this style. I’ve always wanted to watch a Saints team dominate the ball rather than try to be reactive to the opposition but again it’s subjective and winning games is the overall number 1 factor in enjoying the football obviously. There was nothing boring or predictable about us last season in my eyes, despite people insisting they didn’t enjoy it.

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well it’s a pointless question really but yes, I’d much rather watch us under Martin than this style. I’ve always wanted to watch a Saints team dominate the ball rather than try to be reactive to the opposition but again it’s subjective and winning games is the overall number 1 factor in enjoying the football obviously. There was nothing boring or predictable about us last season in my eyes, despite people insisting they didn’t enjoy it.

 

So do you prefer watching Man City’s football over Nottingham Forest or Brighton or even Bournemouth? Again, all of the latter three teams gets my vote…so much more entertaining.

[tdmickey3]

29 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well it’s a pointless question really but yes, I’d much rather watch us under Martin than this style. I’ve always wanted to watch a Saints team dominate the ball rather than try to be reactive to the opposition but again it’s subjective and winning games is the overall number 1 factor in enjoying the football obviously. There was nothing boring or predictable about us last season in my eyes, despite people insisting they didn’t enjoy it.

 

Of course you would 🙄

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

14 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

So do you prefer watching Man City’s football over Nottingham Forest or Brighton or even Bournemouth? Again, all of the latter three teams gets my vote…so much more entertaining.

I wonder when was the last time he ever had to pay for a ticket to watch this football club.

[Fabrice29]

 

24 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

So do you prefer watching Man City’s football over Nottingham Forest or Brighton or even Bournemouth? Again, all of the latter three teams gets my vote…so much more entertaining.

Yes, sorry 🤣 Man City have scored more goals than all 3 of those and will finish above at least two of those 3 this season. 

Im sorry people can’t grasp me enjoying last season. I’m more sorry you’re all convincing yourselves you couldn’t. I’m also sorry this season has been naff and that maybe I enjoyed us more earlier in the season than I do now. Hopefully we can win some games soon and you can try enjoy it when we do.

 

[Turkish]

36 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I wonder when was the last time he ever had to pay for a ticket to watch this football club.

he's worked for the club for years so probably a long time. That dry cleaning isn't going to collect itself. 

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

he's worked for the club for years so probably a long time. That dry cleaning isn't going to collect itself. 

 

45 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I wonder when was the last time he ever had to pay for a ticket to watch this football club.

Do you think people working for the club have been advised to go out and defend the manager they sacked a few months back? Or am I doing it wrong? 

[Pamplemousse]

If Juric had been here from the start we'd have been better off. Recruitment for starters would've been better - the players we have aren't good enough and Martin was overseeing that, this is his mess.

Juric is also preferable because he's admitted he's made mistakes and got things wrong.

Edited yesterday at 16:41 by Pamplemousse

[Lighthouse]

28 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

If Juric had been here from the start we'd have been better off. Recruitment for starters would've been better - the players we have aren't good enough and Martin was overseeing that, this is his mess.

Juric is also preferable because he's admitted he's made mistakes and got things wrong.

If you put a 5 year old at the controls of a JCB and he then smashes up a bunch of cars and houses, would you say that was ‘his mess’? Personally I’d say that was the fault of whoever was making the decisions above him. Martin has absolutely zero experience of PL recruitment and I don’t really see a man who’s never managed in Britain before and thinks Aribo is a CB being much of an improvement.

[pimpin4rizeal]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Which is exactly my point. We’re not any better or any worse and talk of tactical decisions will always be silly in this case. 

I’m not sure it’s true that the tactical decisions are silly at all .. let’s be honest we have played idiot tactics for pretty much all the season .. Martin was using the suicidal passing out under pressure which conceded us a ton of goals .. and juric has gave up the midfield in every match bar the last one which we actually needed two penalties to lose to the league leaders 
 

if juric actually sticks to the 4 at the back with two dms we will actually get a answer to was it just two idiots setting us up wrong all season but maybe it was just a one off cos it was LiverpooL 😒 . 
 

this is kinda last chance saloon for juric imo . If he shows he can adapt now and manages to get a few results with a tactical change Fair play to him yes he could of done it sooner, but  at least shows he is open to adapting .. if he reverts back to the 3-4-3 shit is as stubborn and dumb as Martin and it’s gonna be the last time I defend him

Edited 22 hours ago by pimpin4rizeal

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Do you think people working for the club have been advised to go out and defend the manager they sacked a few months back? Or am I doing it wrong? 

I doubt we are run by dictators who tell you what to do. It isn’t the days when cortese employed you as a grass 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I doubt we are run by dictators who tell you what to do. It isn’t the days when cortese employed you as a grass 

I appreciate you think I’m someone a lot more clued up than I am, I actually quite like it, but you do mention the same quips like this a lot. If it’s not this, it’s something about laundry or Rohl leaving under a cloud. You obviously don’t get the bites you crave and are desperate to tell everyone what you know so go on, I’ll do it, please sir, tell us all about the little fun itk stories you have… 

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I’m not sure it’s true that the tactical decisions are silly at all .. let’s be honest we have played idiot tactics for pretty much all the season .. Martin was using the suicidal passing out under pressure which conceded us a ton of goals .. and juric has gave up the midfield in every match bar the last one which we actually needed two penalties to lose to the league leaders 
 

if juric actually sticks to the 4 at the back with two dms we will actually get a answer to was it just two idiots setting us up wrong all season but maybe it was just a one off cos it was LiverpooL 😒 . 
 

this is kinda last chance saloon for juric imo . If he shows he can adapt now and manages to get a few results with a tactical change Fair play to him yes he could of done it sooner, but  at least shows he is open to adapting .. if he reverts back to the 3-4-3 shit is as stubborn and dumb as Martin and it’s gonna be the last time I defend him

Over the last two seasons in the PL we’ve tried 5 different managers with various systems, set ups, tactics or whatever else you want to call them. We’ve done it all with a core group of players who were either relegated with us or someone else prior to us or relatively new to the league altogether. I do find it amusing that anyone would think the actual answer is just ‘4 at the back and 2 dms’ but I also admire the simplicity of thought tbh, so fair play to you. 

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I appreciate you think I’m someone a lot more clued up than I am, I actually quite like it, but you do mention the same quips like this a lot. If it’s not this, it’s something about laundry or Rohl leaving under a cloud. You obviously don’t get the bites you crave and are desperate to tell everyone what you know so go on, I’ll do it, please sir, tell us all about the little fun itk stories you have… 

 

14 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Do you think people working for the club have been advised to go out and defend the manager they sacked a few months back? Or am I doing it wrong? 

Okay pal 

[Oisin]

7 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Over the last two seasons in the PL we’ve tried 5 different managers with various systems, set ups, tactics or whatever else you want to call them. We’ve done it all with a core group of players who were either relegated with us or someone else prior to us or relatively new to the league altogether. I do find it amusing that anyone would think the actual answer is just ‘4 at the back and 2 dms’ but I also admire the simplicity of thought tbh, so fair play to you. 

 

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

Okay pal 

Think you’ve touched a nerve, Fabrice - Turkish has brought back the “pal” response 😂

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Oisin said:

 

Think you’ve touched a nerve, Fabrice - Turkish has brought back the “pal” response 😂

I think it might be the other way round pal 😂😂

[Fabrice29]

22 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I think it might be the other way round pal 😂😂

I can assure you that you haven’t 🤣. You’ve accused me of being various different people over the years, not really sure who most of them are but this current belief is the most exciting so I’m happy to let you crack on. It’s just you seem desperate to bring up laundry, Rohl and grassing stories all the time so this is your chance to spill the beans…

[Whitey Grandad]

10 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Over the last two seasons in the PL we’ve tried 5 different managers with various systems, set ups, tactics or whatever else you want to call them. We’ve done it all with a core group of players who were either relegated with us or someone else prior to us or relatively new to the league altogether. I do find it amusing that anyone would think the actual answer is just ‘4 at the back and 2 dms’ but I also admire the simplicity of thought tbh, so fair play to you. 

And of those 5 managers what league are they in now?

I prefer to lay the blame on poor recruitment, managers as much as players. There has been too much trying to find a gem amongst the lower divisions. They are in those divisions for a reason.

[OldNick]

17 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Do you think people working for the club have been advised to go out and defend the manager they sacked a few months back? Or am I doing it wrong? 

I dont believe you are anything but a big fan of RM. I totally understand your loyally to him.

I am still bitter about the way Puel was kicked aside 'he had no charisma etc etc' but didnt we go downhill since he left with us in 8th and a cup final after beating Klopps Liverpool home and away, and also Wengers Arsenal

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I dont believe you are anything but a big fan of RM. I totally understand your loyally to him.

I am still bitter about the way Puel was kicked aside 'he had no charisma etc etc' but didnt we go downhill since he left with us in 8th and a cup final after beating Klopps Liverpool home and away, and also Wengers Arsenal

Puel?

In the words of the song, 🎶 Let it go! Let it go! 🎶

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I dont believe you are anything but a big fan of RM. I totally understand your loyally to him.

I am still bitter about the way Puel was kicked aside 'he had no charisma etc etc' but didnt we go downhill since he left with us in 8th and a cup final after beating Klopps Liverpool home and away, and also Wengers Arsenal

We went downhill when VvD got injured, Fonte wanted out and we decided to ‘make do’ with Stephens and Caceres, until we could replace the latter with Hoedt.

He wasn’t kicked because of anything to do with charisma, nobody sacks a manager because they give dull interviews. Not that any fans really cared about that either, it’s something of a straw-man argument.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Puel?

In the words of the song, 🎶 Let it go! Let it go! 🎶

He was not given a proper chance. Yes the results after the cup final were poor but we just couldnt score and drew some 0-0 but missing pens didnt help.

Yes he was not a Strachan in front of the camera but im sure few of us could show humour and come across well in a second language.

Anyway he is gone and we have reaped what we have sewn

 

[OldNick]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

We went downhill when VvD got injured, Fonte wanted out and we decided to ‘make do’ with Stephens and Caceres, until we could replace the latter with Hoedt.

He wasn’t kicked because of anything to do with charisma, nobody sacks a manager because they give dull interviews. Not that any fans really cared about that either, it’s something of a straw-man argument.

I think you are wrong, it was constant on here about how he was poor charisma wise.

Yes welost VVD , any team would miss him. Im not sure if it was his fault that we again had poor backups as I cant recall if he made any signings.

The next thing will be Europe thrown in, the misses that VVD made in those games plus our forwards should have more than scored enough to win. A thin squad had to be managed and so at times weaker teams were put out, 

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I think you are wrong, it was constant on here about how he was poor charisma wise.

It was, however that’s not the reason people wanted him sacked. That was the football.

[Chez]

19 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Clearly not in terms of results, but surely it was obvious from my post that I consider there to be enough of a difference to make the point. It could be argued that the difference would be even greater if Juric had the type of,players at his disposal to suit his style of football. Are you trying tell us that you don’t recognise a difference between Martin’s type of football and Juric’s? Really? 😳

Yes, i am saying that, to my eyes, there isn't much difference.  Maybe you could take the time to describe what I have failed to see.

[Give it to Ron]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Yes, i am saying that, to my eyes, there isn't much difference.  Maybe you could take the time to describe what I have failed to see.

71% possession and 0 shots for one thing

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Yes, i am saying that, to my eyes, there isn't much difference.  Maybe you could take the time to describe what I have failed to see.

I think a key thing for me is Juric is less wedded to a specific system…he’s trying different formations etc. OK, we may not like everything we see, but at least he’s trying. And the build up play is definitely less laborious and has almost eliminated the errors at the back resulting from endless suicidal passing between the GK and defenders. This in turn means we have less possession, but it’s difficult to tell whether that’s made us worse - we couldn’t get any f-ing worse under Martins intransigent system.

[Barsiem]

Ouch...

 

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

71% possession and 0 shots for one thing

I presume you mean 0 shots on target against Wolves? You could argue `shots on target' is an outcome rather than a style, but it's interesting to compare. We certainly don't have the ball as much now. Are we creating more chances? Are we taking more shots? Are we more attacking? Are we more `dangerous'? 

Newcastle 78%, 19 shots, 4 on target
Forrest 65%, 5, 1
Brentford 63%, 18, 6
Man U 44%, 6, 4
Ipswich 53%, 11, 3
Bournemouth 60%, 9, 3
Arsenal 41%, 8, 2
Leicester 42%, 14, 7
Man City 43%, 5, 2
Everton 65%, 9, 2
Wolves 71%, 9, 0
Liverpool 38%, 7, 5
Brighton 48%, 10, 2
Chelsea 45%, 6, 4
Villa, 53% 4, 0
Spurs 42%, 9 , 3
average 9.25 shots a game

Fulham 43%, 5, 1

West Ham 54%, 18, 5 
Palace 54%, 7, 3
Brentford 51%, 8, 1
Man U 40%, 13, 5
Forrest 56%, 10, 4
Newcastle 53%, 12, 5
Ipswich 43%, 9, 4
Bournemouth 45%, 11, 4
Brighton 50%, 6, 1
Chelsea %40, 7, 2
Liverpool 29%, 6, 4
average 9.7 shots a game

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

Ouch...

 

Why ouch?  That’s hardly a reason to celebrate Martins tenure! 🤣

[saintant]

3 hours ago, OldNick said:

He was not given a proper chance. Yes the results after the cup final were poor but we just couldnt score and drew some 0-0 but missing pens didnt help.

Yes he was not a Strachan in front of the camera but im sure few of us could show humour and come across well in a second language.

Anyway he is gone and we have reaped what we have sewn

 

Puel went on to Leicester where he was universally loathed and their fans couldn't wait to get shot of him. What has he done since leaving Leicester? Genuine question as I have no idea.

[OldNick]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Puel went on to Leicester where he was universally loathed and their fans couldn't wait to get shot of him. What has he done since leaving Leicester? Genuine question as I have no idea.

No idea either, many mangers leave and dont do anything elsewhere. To me he did well for us. To a degree Kpeman failed at his next club, Lawrie failed at Sunderland and so it is just is the man  right for that team at that time.

 

[Chez]

22 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I think a key thing for me is Juric is less wedded to a specific system…he’s trying different formations etc. OK, we may not like everything we see, but at least he’s trying. And the build up play is definitely less laborious and has almost eliminated the errors at the back resulting from endless suicidal passing between the GK and defenders. This in turn means we have less possession, but it’s difficult to tell whether that’s made us worse - we couldn’t get any f-ing worse under Martins intransigent system.

you are kidding? Juric has changed the formation once since he came and that was in the last game. nd thats both in terms of line ups and during the game. He hasn't tried different formations at all and has been wedded to his system. He and Martin have been as bad as each other in that department.

I think you are right that the build up is less laborious, but not by much. We still pass it around the back four a lot, going from left to right and back again. The Brighton game saw us do that all game. We went nowhere. We couldn't get out of our own half. We still pass it short and have been caught in possession. There is less suicidal stuff. That has been replaced by hoofing it away and lost possession. 

I agree, we couldn't get any worse under RM. But we haven't exactly got better either.  For me, the only difference really is Sulemana now provides an out ball and an attacking threat where before we had...I don't know really, what did we have before?
 

[Barsiem]

14 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Why ouch?  That’s hardly a reason to celebrate Martins tenure! 🤣

Where was I celebrating?  The fact is we're statistically even worse than his shitshow.  That's an ouch imo

[miserableoldgit]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

We went downhill when VvD got injured, Fonte wanted out and we decided to ‘make do’ with Stephens and Caceres, until we could replace the latter with Hoedt.

He wasn’t kicked because of anything to do with charisma, nobody sacks a manager because they give dull interviews. Not that any fans really cared about that either, it’s something of a straw-man argument.

Puel's reign was a strange one. Yes, eighth and a Cup Final, but for the only time in many, many years, I couldn't be asked to stay for the "Traditional" lap of honour at the final home game of the season, and from what I remember, I wasn't the only by a long chalk.

[OldNick]

19 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Puel's reign was a strange one. Yes, eighth and a Cup Final, but for the only time in many, many years, I couldn't be asked to stay for the "Traditional" lap of honour at the final home game of the season, and from what I remember, I wasn't the only by a long chalk.

The fans had decided that they didnt like him. Thats fine,its all choice and opinion. Still doesnt get over the fact that he did very well

[miserableoldgit]

26 minutes ago, OldNick said:

The fans had decided that they didnt like him. Thats fine,its all choice and opinion. Still doesnt get over the fact that he did very well

Yes....that's why I said it was strange.......disinterest in someone who had been pretty successful.

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I think a key thing for me is Juric is less wedded to a specific system…he’s trying different formations etc. OK, we may not like everything we see, but at least he’s trying. And the build up play is definitely less laborious and has almost eliminated the errors at the back resulting from endless suicidal passing between the GK and defenders. This in turn means we have less possession, but it’s difficult to tell whether that’s made us worse - we couldn’t get any f-ing worse under Martins intransigent system.

We tried many more "different formations etc" under Martin this season than Juric btw. Started the season with 532, played 541 at times, played strikerless in one game at least, ended with 4 at the back against Spurs, played some games with wingers, some without. Martin had his stubborn concepts but they weren't to do with formations. It's why constant talk on here about formations and there being obvious team selections and formations that nobody has tried continues to be highly amusing. 

[capitalsaint]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

The fans had decided that they didnt like him. Thats fine,its all choice and opinion. Still doesnt get over the fact that he did very well

Weren't there rumours about the players also not being too keen, at least compared to Koeman? Maybe I've misremembered.