Ivan Juric

[Gloucester Saint]

8 hours ago, Forester said:

As someone who payed to watch tonight I am as pissed off as everyone else.  And I agree with your Koeman and Poch choices.  However…….….…..I firmly believe we would have been relegated this season with either of them at the helm.  Just think back to the players they had (and the careers some had away from Saints):

Poch had Clyne, Fonte, Shaw, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Jay Rod (pre injury), Lambert, Davis.  
 

Koeman had Bertrand, VVD, Alderweirald, Romeu, Davis, Tadic, Pelle and Mane

The gulf in quality is literally incredible

And we signed the likes of Clyne having been out of the top flight for 7 years and nearly went bust. Davis and J Rod too.

None of them comparatively big money, J Rod briefly our record but only for a few weeks. 

[chownie20]

No doubt the squad isnt good enough, but the manager isnt helping the team as far as I can see.

His first couple of matches he made it simple, but now it feels like there is no spine to the team whatsoever, and we continue playing players out of position, without even mentioning the man to man thing.

I would just love a simple, straightforward approach where we play our best players, in their best positions, work hard and take things simply.

[Teamsaint1]

50 minutes ago, chownie20 said:

No doubt the squad isnt good enough, but the manager isnt helping the team as far as I can see.

His first couple of matches he made it simple, but now it feels like there is no spine to the team whatsoever, and we continue playing players out of position, without even mentioning the man to man thing.

I would just love a simple, straightforward approach where we play our best players, in their best positions, work hard and take things simply.

You mean the way lower league teams do in cup games against higher level opposition , and  where, EG, Exeter ( even when down to 10 men) v Forest recently ?! 
who knew there was a way to play against markedly better opposition.? 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:18 by Teamsaint1

[Dirkdiggler]

9 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Honestly can’t stress enough how utterly deluded you are if you are talking about tactics or different combinations of players as if they will make a difference and it’s so incredibly obvious to everyone except the manager. Take Joe Aribo for example, we’ve been in the PL 2 seasons and he came here as an attacking midfielder and is now playing at the back. If you think we haven’t tried every single combination in between you are seriously deluded.

The ‘try something different and be adaptable ’ brigade need to rein it in too. People like to be romantic about RH’s time here so let’s remember that he was pretty stubborn/steadfast/arrogant whatever you want to call it in how he wanted to play. He created a play book ffs. And guess what, it was fairly successful. Until obviously when we got relegated and we flipped between 3 managers. Only then getting success again when we went back to an arrogant/stubborn manager who was pretty unwavering in his desire to do certain things. It’s almost as if having a plan, a long term goal is a good thing and not just flipping between potentially 3 different ways of playing again like we might this season. We 100% should have doubled down on a style, even if everyone was adamant Martin had to go we should have continued to stick with that way. OR if we really did think changing the style was the answer then we should be doubling down on that again now. Drumming it into players that this is how it’s going to be so they will need to get on board. Setting out a plan. I’m pretty sure that’s what the technical directors job and message will be, to drum that home, so just like when everyone hated the previous manager, now is the time to stay true to the long term plan, not jump to Rusk again so we can play a different way for a few weeks for no real benefit. But, my biggest issue with SR is it seems pretty eager to play to the crowd when things go shit so I would not be shocked to see them do exactly that again.

Spot on, the most successful clubs in recent history have kept the same manager and stuck by his ideas and tactics.

I can only think of Chelsea who flip flopped and still had success ( then again they had bottomless money) 

I don’t think Martin was great and this season is showing the shift from possession football , Man City as an example are struggling, 

Hate to say but the club should be looking at Brighton & Bournemouth how the club should be run (or go back to see what we did right under NC) 

[saintant]

9 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Honestly can’t stress enough how utterly deluded you are if you are talking about tactics or different combinations of players as if they will make a difference and it’s so incredibly obvious to everyone except the manager. Take Joe Aribo for example, we’ve been in the PL 2 seasons and he came here as an attacking midfielder and is now playing at the back. If you think we haven’t tried every single combination in between you are seriously deluded.

The ‘try something different and be adaptable ’ brigade need to reign it in too. People like to be romantic about RH’s time here so let’s remember that he was pretty stubborn/steadfast/arrogant whatever you want to call it in how he wanted to play. He created a play book ffs. And guess what, it was fairly successful. Until obviously when we got relegated and we flipped between 3 managers. Only then getting success again when we went back to an arrogant/stubborn manager who was pretty unwavering in his desire to do certain things. It’s almost as if having a plan, a long term goal is a good thing and not just flipping between potentially 3 different ways of playing again like we might this season. We 100% should have doubled down on a style, even if everyone was adamant Martin had to go we should have continued to stick with that way. OR if we really did think changing the style was the answer then we should be doubling down on that again now. Drumming it into players that this is how it’s going to be so they will need to get on board. Setting out a plan. I’m pretty sure that’s what the technical directors job and message will be, to drum that home, so just like when everyone hated the previous manager, now is the time to stay true to the long term plan, not jump to Rusk again so we can play a different way for a few weeks for no real benefit. But, my biggest issue with SR is it seems pretty eager to play to the crowd when things go shit so I would not be shocked to see them do exactly that again.

The RM did no wrong brigade need to reign it in - he is responsible for producing the least fit football team I have ever seen and it is well documented that days off instead of training was the order of the day during his reign. Pre-season training must have been lots of laughs and no work.

Edited Wednesday at 09:26 by saintant

[beatlesaint]

10 hours ago, The Realist said:

Adam Blackmore like Juric and wants him to stay on as our manager next season.  Weird.  Yes he puts himself in front of the press and answers difficult questions. Thats it, otherwise, clueless. Has made the team worse.

 

To be fair to Blackmore he's in a very difficult position. The local radio want/need a good working relationship with the club, and he needs a relationship of some kind with the manager (Martin must have driven him nuts cos he was so bloody prickly if asked something he didnt like). If he came out like the fans and was calling for the manager to go at every opportunity he would lose that good will from the club, access to players would be cut off and we would be back to the days of Cortese banning The Echo.

If people dont think that Blackmore knows this is a complete shit show then they are living in fantasy land. Of course he bloody does, and if by some miracle he hadnt worked it out himself he's got Jo Tessem telling him at every opportunity!

This is his job remember, he has to show some level of professionalism, he's not a spokesman for a disgruntled fanbase. Ok sometimes he says some idiot things, plays devils advocat a little too much but overall he's decent and working under trying circumstances at the moment.  

[Wade Garrett]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

The RM did no wrong need to reign it in - he is responsible for producing the least fit football team I have ever seen and it is well documented that days off instead of training was the order of the day during his reign. Pre-season training must have been lots of laughs and no work.

It’s like history is trying to be rewritten.

We were shite under Martin.  Conceded over 60 in the Championship and were walked over most weeks in the Premier.

Just because it appears Juric is an absolutely clueless fucking clown, it doesn’t make Martin a better manager than he was.

Rusk took over for a couple of games and we looked a lot better straight away.  Unfortunately, the dour one then came in and made us an absolute shit show again.

[Wade Garrett]

3 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

To be fair to Blackmore he's in a very difficult position. The local radio want/need a good working relationship with the club, and he needs a relationship of some kind with the manager (Martin must have driven him nuts cos he was so bloody prickly if asked something he didnt like). If he came out like the fans and was calling for the manager to go at every opportunity he would lose that good will from the club, access to players would be cut off and we would be back to the days of Cortese banning The Echo.

If people dont think that Blackmore knows this is a complete shit show then they are living in fantasy land. Of course he bloody does, and if by some miracle he hadnt worked it out himself he's got Jo Tessem telling him at every opportunity!

This is his job remember, he has to show some level of professionalism, he's not a spokesman for a disgruntled fanbase. Ok sometimes he says some idiot things, plays devils advocat a little too much but overall he's decent and working under trying circumstances at the moment.  

He can choose to say nothing rather than say he wants Juric to stay next season.

[malcolm waldron]

12 minutes ago, saintant said:

The RM did no wrong need to reign it in - he is responsible for producing the least fit football team I have ever seen and it is well documented that days off instead of training was the order of the day during his reign. Pre-season training must have been lots of laughs and no work.

I see this a lot on here.  Is this true?  It's a genuine question btw.

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

I see this a lot on here.  Is this true?  It's a genuine question btw.

Players were given Sundays and Mondays off even after the many poor performances. RM had also given them Christmas Day off despite a Boxing Day fixture against West Ham although that was cancelled by Juric.

Whatever the truths are about training I defy anyone to argue that we are not the least fit team in the Premier League and by some distance.

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

The RM did no wrong brigade need to reign it in - he is responsible for producing the least fit football team I have ever seen and it is well documented that days off instead of training was the order of the day during his reign. Pre-season training must have been lots of laughs and no work.

 

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

It’s like history is trying to be rewritten.

We were shite under Martin.  Conceded over 60 in the Championship and were walked over most weeks in the Premier.

Just because it appears Juric is an absolutely clueless fucking clown, it doesn’t make Martin a better manager than he was.

Rusk took over for a couple of games and we looked a lot better straight away.  Unfortunately, the dour one then came in and made us an absolute shit show again.

Yeah see at no point did I say Martin did no wrong or am I trying to rewrite history (like for example people who insist last season wasn’t a success), I’m merely pointing out that it was quite obvious not everything was one man’s fault, not everything would change if that one man left and then if we do decide those two things were true then we probably need to settle on a way of doing things before changing to another way again. 

If you want to talk about specifics of fitness then go speak to the sport science guys at the club to find out the facts. I have no real issues with the fitness of our players but do have serious concerns over the physical attributes of our squad. Which are two different things but do often get merged by some. It’s much easier to shout about one man and his crusade to give days off than actually try to work out why over two PL seasons and 5 managers a core group of players continue to be out of their depth, so bravo. 

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Yeah see at no point did I say Martin did no wrong or am I trying to rewrite history (like for example people who insist last season wasn’t a success), I’m merely pointing out that it was quite obvious not everything was one man’s fault, not everything would change if that one man left and then if we do decide those two things were true then we probably need to settle on a way of doing things before changing to another way again. 

If you want to talk about specifics of fitness then go speak to the sport science guys at the club to find out the facts. I have no real issues with the fitness of our players but do have serious concerns over the physical attributes of our squad. Which are two different things but do often get merged by some. It’s much easier to shout about one man and his crusade to give days off than actually try to work out why over two PL seasons and 5 managers a core group of players continue to be out of their depth, so bravo. 

Turn it off for fucks sake.

[Appy]

Still playing a back three when we have no decent centre backs or any centre backs really, shows what a naive, poor tactician he is. 

[Give it to Ron]

23 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

Yeah see at no point did I say Martin did no wrong or am I trying to rewrite history (like for example people who insist last season wasn’t a success), I’m merely pointing out that it was quite obvious not everything was one man’s fault, not everything would change if that one man left and then if we do decide those two things were true then we probably need to settle on a way of doing things before changing to another way again. 

If you want to talk about specifics of fitness then go speak to the sport science guys at the club to find out the facts. I have no real issues with the fitness of our players but do have serious concerns over the physical attributes of our squad. Which are two different things but do often get merged by some. It’s much easier to shout about one man and his crusade to give days off than actually try to work out why over two PL seasons and 5 managers a core group of players continue to be out of their depth, so bravo. 

Physical attributes meaning the recruitment is wrong for type of player?

I have been saying for years our academy is wrong and we just sign small technical players - I used to see first hand how they got battered by the West Ham, Brentford etc big lads. 
It seems to have changed recently.

The last 3 years recruitment has been abysmal and why we are here now.

[Gingeletiss]

Adkins available, just saying.

[gio1saints]

12 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

I see this a lot on here.  Is this true?  It's a genuine question btw.

I think objectively we look slower and less fit for sure. And some of that is mental but a lot is bad training. 

Rest time is just as important as running up hills all day. To use “rest days “ as a historic stick to criticise RM or current state of player fitness is convenient - but it’s also wrong and too facile an answer.

My suspicion is that the obvious lack of fitness in our squad is less to do with rest days and more to do with the type of exercise and fitness and game training  they do/did as well as diet and importantly, the ball possession fixated approach we had under RM. Ball possession and ball handling techniques elevated at the expense of basic fitness imo - when the latter should always come first. 
 

We may have impressive physical training facilities but they are only as good as the trainers and the trainees. Rest days are not the issue. 
 

 

[Fabrice29]

29 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Physical attributes meaning the recruitment is wrong for type of player?

I have been saying for years our academy is wrong and we just sign small technical players - I used to see first hand how they got battered by the West Ham, Brentford etc big lads. 
It seems to have changed recently.

The last 3 years recruitment has been abysmal and why we are here now.

Yeah that’s what I think, in the pl especially the spines of team are physical monsters. Baleba the other day just dwarfed the rest of our squad. No issues with the style of play we had for me personally but we never supplemented it physically to compete in this league. Attack is the most obvious for me though, played all last season without Onuachu and this year instead of recruiting technically good strikers with physical prowess (after Adams left and Delap turned us down who did we go for of similar attributes?) we’ve just ended back where we were 2 years ago. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:30 by Fabrice29

[Give it to Ron]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yeah that’s what I think, in the pl especially the spines of team are physical monsters. Baleba the other day just dwarfed the rest of our squad. No issues with the style of play we had for me personally but we never supplemented it physically to compete in this league. Attack is the most obvious for me though, played all last season without Onuachu and this year instead of recruiting technically good strikers with physical prowess (after Adams left and Delap turned us down who did we go for of similar attributes?) we’ve just ended back where we were 2 years ago. 

I don’t disagree at all my mate and I are always saying we haven’t had a Wanyama for far too long.

We need a Stephen Nzonzi, Doucoure type in midfield, a Pelle up front, pace and power throughout the team to compete in the Prem. I am not going to pick on Smallbone but he is a classic example what’s wrong here.

Some are putting a lot of faith in Spors - given SR couldn’t know a decent employee if it bit them I think as a club we are in trouble.

[Lighthouse]

I don’t think we’ve really looked unfit as such under either manager this season. The problem has been that we’ve been so obviously outclassed by better players that we end up chasing shadows. We don’t play well, we go behind, heads drop and it gives the appearances of lethargy and that players are unfit and/or not trying.

[saintant]

39 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

I think objectively we look slower and less fit for sure. And some of that is mental but a lot is bad training. 

Rest time is just as important as running up hills all day. To use “rest days “ as a historic stick to criticise RM or current state of player fitness is convenient - but it’s also wrong and too facile an answer.

My suspicion is that the obvious lack of fitness in our squad is less to do with rest days and more to do with the type of exercise and fitness and game training  they do/did as well as diet and importantly, the ball possession fixated approach we had under RM. Ball possession and ball handling techniques elevated at the expense of basic fitness imo - when the latter should always come first. 
 

We may have impressive physical training facilities but they are only as good as the trainers and the trainees. Rest days are not the issue. 
 

 

It is nearly all down to poor pre-season training. If this is not done properly it is impossible to correct during the season when games come thick and fast. 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I don’t think we’ve really looked unfit as such under either manager this season. The problem has been that we’ve been so obviously outclassed by better players that we end up chasing shadows. We don’t play well, we go behind, heads drop and it gives the appearances of lethargy and that players are unfit and/or not trying.

Is this a joke? Did you watch the way the Chelsea players raced upfield when we lost the ball at our corner while our lot jogged back blowing out of their collective arses?

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

It is nearly all down to poor pre-season training. If this is not done properly it is impossible to correct during the season when games come thick and fast. 

Pre-season training is just training without the competitive games in between. It’s nothing magical that can’t be replicated mid-season, it’s just training with some friendlies against Grasshopper and Sociedad mixed in. If anything the intensity of playing competitive matches should help players get in shape.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Pre-season training is just training without the competitive games in between. It’s nothing magical that can’t be replicated mid-season, it’s just training with some friendlies against Grasshopper and Sociedad mixed in. If anything the intensity of playing competitive matches should help players get in shape.

Ok, didn't realise you knew more than the sports science experts - I'll get back in my box.

[Dusic]

33 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Some are putting a lot of faith in Spors - given SR couldn’t know a decent employee if it bit them I think as a club we are in trouble.

Not sure that is fair. Shields and Wilcox both did enough in a short time to be poached by the big boys and Goldie seems to be doing ok with the Academy after a poor period previously. Their off field appointments have generally been fairly decent I would say and not their fault that those guys were approached by Chelsea and Man Utd!

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Not sure that is fair. Shields and Wilcox both did enough in a short time to be poached by the big boys and Goldie seems to be doing ok with the Academy after a poor period previously. Their off field appointments have generally been fairly decent I would say and not their fault that those guys were approached by Chelsea and Man Utd!

Not so sure about Mowbray though. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

We certainly look slower than any other side, unfitter than any other side play safe more than any other side. I don’t know if that’s a fitness issue, a Lego legacy issue or a mindset issue.
 

It doesn’t help that players like Manning, Downes, Smallbone, Airbo, THB, Tall Paul, Bree, Bednerak, Captain Jack, have an absolutely zero turn of pace in any of them. Too many one paced wonders.  It’s not only about raw speed, OR wasn’t particularly quick, but he was quick in thought and could nip in with a quick couple of steps. We’ve just got so many plodders. 
 

You can get away with a couple, if you surround them with dynamic, quick, urgent players, but we don’t have enough of them. You can get away with it playing Lego ball in the Championship, but at this level it’s disastrous. Who have we got, Dibling, KWP, Sully & MF? 

I don’t really know why Ivan is persisting with his tactics. He’s either on his bike or has defo been told he’s here for the long haul, because it’s a pretty horrendous audition he’s putting in ATM. That doesn’t absolve Lego of any blame, the majority of this shite is down to him. His culture, his players and his hospital pass handed to Ivan..

 

[Midfield_General]

Crook and Murphy putting the boot into Juric on TalkShite just now. Saying he's unquestionably made us worse, his team selections are mental, that it looks like the players aren't playing for him, and that when you hear him talk, it's not hard to understand why that is because he's so uninspiring. 'He gives you absolutely nothing to get behind' was Murphy's view as a former player. 

Whatever you think of them or that station, it's difficult to argue with that, although it does give the players way too much of an easy ride. The board, the team management and the players are all equally culpable for how crap we are IMO. 

Both also gave massive props to our away support last night and said our fans were magnificent, especially when you consider the absolute dogshit they were watching and what they have had to endure all season. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:34 by Midfield_General

[Give it to Ron]

20 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Not sure that is fair. Shields and Wilcox both did enough in a short time to be poached by the big boys and Goldie seems to be doing ok with the Academy after a poor period previously. Their off field appointments have generally been fairly decent I would say and not their fault that those guys were approached by Chelsea and Man Utd!

What did they do in 3 months that makes you ignore the results and also Bazanu was one of theirs!

Edited Wednesday at 12:38 by Give it to Ron

[bangkoksaint]

RM or IJ........it's like asking if you want to be stabbed or stoned to death 

[It's There]

DRaw a blue line under this season, get Nigel Ad back!!

[James]

There was one point in the second half yesterday where THB was in midfield trying to win the ball back from a Chelsea player. Even once it was clear he wouldn’t be successful in winning it back he loitered around for a bit before returning to his actual position, by which point I think it had gone out for a goal kick.
 

My question is why is that sort of thing happening - either it’s the tactics which are quite clearly insane if those are the instructions or it’s a lack of effort because the players can’t be arsed to shift it to get back into shape from being out of position. I’d love to know the answer…

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I’m merely pointing out that it was quite obvious not everything was one man’s fault

Ok, I'll bite... Name 3 posters that cited Martin as the sole reason for our woeful season....

#thingsthatdidnthappen

 

Edited Wednesday at 13:16 by trousers

[ally_uk]

Get rid now, put Rusk and Lallana in charge for remainder of season.

Go for Danny Rohl in Summer and complete overhaul! 

[EBS1980]

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Physical attributes meaning the recruitment is wrong for type of player?

I have been saying for years our academy is wrong and we just sign small technical players - I used to see first hand how they got battered by the West Ham, Brentford etc big lads. 
It seems to have changed recently.

The last 3 years recruitment has been abysmal and why we are here now.

Tbf I thought our recruitment last season was generally good. Players brought in to get us out the league, the issue was too much faith was put into them being good enough and signed up this season. M

[OldNick]

2 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

Adkins available, just saying.

I dont think we need a physio

[Give it to Ron]

7 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

Tbf I thought our recruitment last season was generally good. Players brought in to get us out the league, the issue was too much faith was put into them being good enough and signed up this season. M

Even though we didn’t sign a decent forward we needed? We need better physical players , pace, power and ability we have spent over 200m to have this shambles of a squad.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Ivan Juric has been worse than Russell Martin, and has been worse than Nathan Jones - even he didn’t last this long.

 

[Fabrice29]

33 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ok, I'll bite... Name 3 posters that cited Martin as the sole reason for our woeful season....

#thingsthatdidnthappen

 

There is a whole Martin thread full of people blaming him for our season. I’ve posted one of many posts in my previous post and there’s a couple on this page who are still blaming him now. 

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

There is a whole Martin thread full of people blaming him for our season. I’ve posted one of many posts in my previous post and there’s a couple on this page who are still blaming him now. 

Blaming him for "everything", as you stated? I see people citing him as the 'main' reason we are where we are, but haven't seen anyone saying it's 100% down to him. Fair enough if you've seen posts to the contrary that I've missed, although I would venture that anyone laying the blame for "everything" at Martin's door are in an extremely small minority of the fan base. 

Edited Wednesday at 13:58 by trousers

[Harry_SFC]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

Blaming him for "everything"? I see people citing him as the 'main' reason we are where we are, but haven't seen anyone saying it's 100% down to him. Fair enough if you've seen posts to the contrary that I've missed, although I would venture that anyone laying the blame for "everything" at Martin's door are in an extremely small minority of the fan base. 

I haven't looked back but the consensus I got was that we've a generally poor squad and what Martin was trying to achieve with them was absolute bonkers. What we really needed after Martin was someone who sets a side up that's tougher to beat and install a bit of grit. Juric has come in and he's just as stubborn as Martin in using ridiculous tactics. We've gone from keeping the ball at all costs to man marking at all costs whilst surrendering the middle of the pitch. 

Edited Wednesday at 14:05 by Harry_SFC

[CSA96]

I don't think Martin is the main reason, same way I don't think Juric is the main reason. Poor squad building and the financial rules of the PL which have created the biggest gulf ever between the two top tiers is why we are, where we are. It's not a competitive enough group of players. Russell bears more responsibility than most because he was very clearly heavily involved in putting it together, however as the manager and not the board, he is only able to build within the parameters or what is made available to him. He clearly wanted different players to the ones he ended up with

The recurring pattern with SR that I see is that they follow up bad luck with bad decisions.

Bad luck: Shields bailing out on you for Chelsea so quickly
Bad decision: Ankersen stepping in and having the terrible January splurge

Bad luck: Jim Ratcliffe buys Manchester United and headhunts Jason Wilcox
Bad decision: Not replacing Jason Wilcox with a new DoF (presumably because they didn't want to tread on RM's toes)

That said, Juric has been abysmal since taking over. I don't see any point in sacking him now, I think the most likely timeline is that he stays in the job for another five games or so until relegation is officially confirmed, then he's given the elbow and Rusk steers the ship until the season ends

Edited Wednesday at 14:09 by CSA96

[beatlesaint]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I don’t think we’ve really looked unfit as such under either manager this season. 

You cannot be serious! Even RM used to make changes dead on 60 mins (or as near as) cos they were running out of steam (nothing to do with 2 days off a week and just passing the bloody thing around in little triangles in training I'm sure).

There is a reason everything is so slow and laboured, THEY AREN'T FIT ENOUGH !! A crap player who is being outclassed can still put in tons more effort than this shower of shite. Juric was on a hiding to nothing trying to get them fitter from mid-season onwards but whilst there have been the very odd sighting its by and large not changed.   

[Chez]

6 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

And we signed the likes of Clyne having been out of the top flight for 7 years and nearly went bust. Davis and J Rod too.

None of them comparatively big money, J Rod briefly our record but only for a few weeks. 

It was about £2m and £7m I think. £7m was sizeable back then. Fulham's biggest signing that summer was Berbatov for just €5m, Swansea's was Hernandes €7m, Newcastle's was Anita (who?) €8.5m, WBA was Ben Foster €5m, Arsenal's Cazorla €19m, Villa's Benteke €8m...

Imagine how much you'd need to spend now to buy the best (and young) right back in the championship (Archie Grey went for £30m) and a 22 year old championship goalscorer (he got about 15 goals for Burnley) now (Rutter went from leeds to Brighton for €46m). Instead we got Taylor on a free and Archer for about £15m.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I don’t think we’ve really looked unfit as such under either manager this season. The problem has been that we’ve been so obviously outclassed by better players that we end up chasing shadows. We don’t play well, we go behind, heads drop and it gives the appearances of lethargy and that players are unfit and/or not trying.

Whenever we are going through a shit patch "fitness" is blamed and all kinds of experts with amazing eyes for player fitness emerge.

Could it be that the players are fit, and they are trying too, but they are just not playing well, good enough, confident, winning etc...

[kitch]

3 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

Adkins available, just saying.

Genuinely wouldn't be worse, but I wouldn't want him soiling our memories of him.

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

Whenever we are going through a shit patch "fitness" is blamed and all kinds of experts with amazing eyes for player fitness emerge.

Could it be that the players are fit, and they are trying too, but they are just not playing well, good enough, confident, winning etc...

Maybe it's a combination of everything rather than having to pick and choose from a list of potentially detrimental factors? 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Blaming him for "everything", as you stated? I see people citing him as the 'main' reason we are where we are, but haven't seen anyone saying it's 100% down to him. Fair enough if you've seen posts to the contrary that I've missed, although I would venture that anyone laying the blame for "everything" at Martin's door are in an extremely small minority of the fan base. 

I think the post I quoted in the previous page sums up nicely the point I was making. 

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Maybe it's a combination of everything rather than having to pick and choose from a list of potentially detrimental factors? 

I can't argue with that, but posts like "the players are unfit" or "the players don't care" only seem to appear when we are losing. Defeats sure do hone the fitness detection eye. 

 

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

I can't argue with that, but posts like "the players are unfit" or "the players don't care" only seem to appear when we are losing. Defeats sure do hone the fitness detection eye. 

 

Watch the 4th goal if you need evidence of that. Loads on social media pointing it out 

[sambosa75]

Feel sorry for the bloke in many ways.  He's walked into a complete shitshow and a squad full of players who aren't of the required level, irrespective of the formation or tactics selected. 

I just cant help feel that it would be a huge mistake to let him continue at the helm next season.  He needs to go the minute the final whistle of the last game of the season is blown.

With that said, I'm fully expecting Sports Republic in their infinite wisdom to double down on him and award him a 5 year deal before spaffing our entire parachute payment on yet more avant-garde shit from the continent to come and sit on our bench.

Edited Wednesday at 15:10 by sambosa75