Ivan Juric

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

On 02/02/2025 at 12:15, Hodgey said:

FWIW so far I think he is getting better and getting a tune out of some players Martin couldn’t.

He's getting more from a number of players. From what I've seen, he's getting a tune out of Sule, Tall Paul & Big Les. Fernandes seems to have more freedom. Even Bree has improved. The football has been a lot more interesting so overall I like him even though I was also there to witness the Brentford debacle first hand.

The chasms at the back need to be addressed where teams seem to walk through our central defence but I think he is starting to make an impact.

[FarehamSaintJames]

He’s getting more from a few players but let’s not kid ourselves that he’s some great tactical genius. 

It’s unfortunate that he’s inherited such an awful squad at an awful time but like RM he doesn’t help himself with things like formation, substitutions etc.

It was an extremely low bar for him to be any better than Russell Martin. It’s great that he’s got four points but if he doesn’t get much more than that until the end of the season realistically would you want him in charge for next season?

[Paul Chuckle]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

He’s getting more from a few players but let’s not kid ourselves that he’s some great tactical genius. 

It’s unfortunate that he’s inherited such an awful squad at an awful time but like RM he doesn’t help himself with things like formation, substitutions etc.

It was an extremely low bar for him to be any better than Russell Martin. It’s great that he’s got four points but if he doesn’t get much more than that until the end of the season realistically would you want him in charge for next season?

He's only got 3 points. Matt Le God Mode deactivated 😕

[suewhistle]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

He’s getting more from a few players but let’s not kid ourselves that he’s some great tactical genius.

I don't think anybody has said he is, but getting rid of our famous U shaped heat map is an excellent start, he's demanding more from the players and I suspect he's a better judge of them too, having been round the block a bit.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

let’s not kid ourselves that he’s some great tactical genius. 

You're in luck.... Precisely zero people have been kidding themselves that...

[Galway saint]

I think he's doing ok bearing in mind the squad is crap. The  football is less soporific and frankly after the total dog shit managers we have had to endure over the past few years to have someone who is competent and not self obsessed is a welcome change. 

[washsaint]

3 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

He’s getting more from a few players but let’s not kid ourselves that he’s some great tactical genius. 

It’s unfortunate that he’s inherited such an awful squad at an awful time but like RM he doesn’t help himself with things like formation, substitutions etc.

It was an extremely low bar for him to be any better than Russell Martin. It’s great that he’s got four points but if he doesn’t get much more than that until the end of the season realistically would you want him in charge for next season?

He hasn't got 4 points, he's got 3.  He had 6 straight defeats to start his tenure.  The draw at Brighton was under Rusk.

I think he's an extremely limited manager and is absolutely wedded to the 3 at the back nonsense.

[Convict Colony]

5 hours ago, washsaint said:

He hasn't got 4 points, he's got 3.  He had 6 straight defeats to start his tenure.  The draw at Brighton was under Rusk.

I think he's an extremely limited manager and is absolutely wedded to the 3 at the back nonsense.

Its all well and good being pedantic but make sure your right... it was fulham not brighton as russ was still in charge then.

[cortee]

I like him and hope he can also grow along with the team.

[Football Special]

6 hours ago, washsaint said:

He hasn't got 4 points, he's got 3.  He had 6 straight defeats to start his tenure.  The draw at Brighton was under Rusk.

I think he's an extremely limited manager and is absolutely wedded to the 3 at the back nonsense.

Don't forget the win v SWANSEA 

[tdmickey3]

7 hours ago, washsaint said:

He hasn't got 4 points, he's got 3.  He had 6 straight defeats to start his tenure.  The draw at Brighton was under Rusk.

I think he's an extremely limited manager and is absolutely wedded to the 3 at the back nonsense.

Was he not in charge for draw at Fulham???

[CamSaint]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Was he not in charge for draw at Fulham???

No, his work permit had not come through yet so Rusk was still in charge. Rusk took the previous midweek cup game against Liverpool and the Fulham match. IJ's first match in charge was West Ham.

Edited February 5 by CamSaint
Updated

[tdmickey3]

15 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

No, his work permit had not come through yet so Rusk was still in charge. Rusk took the previous midweek cup game against Liverpool and the Fulham match. IJ's first match in charge was West Ham.

Cheers

 

[franniesTache]

On 01/02/2025 at 18:32, Wsaint said:

 

 As a Ralph fan, not backing him properly whilst he was here was the fuck up. He was completely and utterly done with us by the end and he probably needed to go, for his own good.

It's been death by a thousand cuts really, I liked Ralph for large periods but by the end he was completely spent, the mistake with him was not getting rid sooner - especially as he said he was off at the end of that season and became a lame duck.

We should've sacked Ralph at the end of the season and spent the summer getting the right man in. We didn't so it went to shit.

Then we brought in Jones, some of the stuff he did i actually still don't think was as terrible as people made out, he kicked the players up the arse which needed doing and he called out our more self entitled parts of fanbase which needed doing, but on the pitch he was fundamentally not even close to being good enough.

Unfortunately once again we waited far too late to get rid of him, which should've happened after the Forest home game when it was obvious how bad he was.

Then we brought in Selles who just felt like SR had basically given up, held their hands up, said "fucked if we know" and put him in. The major mistake there was bringing in a person who'd never managed a club and expecting them to learn their trade at possibly the worst time you could learn your trade, during a catastrophic relegation battle where what we needed was someone who had been there before (but probably wouldn't have been popular with our more hipster elements in our support).

So obviously we went down and sacked him, that brought in Martin. I still think Martin was the wrong choice from day one but luckily we had a squad good enough to get us up anyway.

I think it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that if Martin continued with his footballing style we'd be torn apart every week, he took a team that conceded a ton of goals and created a small amount in the championship, but managed to win because we had better players, into a league where we'd concede loads of goals, create very few and have significantly worse players.

It was a recipe for disaster.

In my opinion a good owner would've said thanks for promotion and here's your P45 the day after the play offs, but i could sort of understand the logic that said give him a chance in the premier league.

The issue once more came about because we didn't just give him a chance, we hung on way, way too long, put the club in a position that meant we couldn't rescue it, destroyed the players confidence and made us deeply unattractive to any other manager.

So when the finally sacked him and brought in Juric they basically had to bring in a "Mark Hughes" style coach. Juric probably wouldn't have been my first choice.

We had two choices in reality, give up on the season completely, look at the long term and build going forward. For me that choice would've been spending what was needed and getting Rohl in, and given the way Rohl plays it would take time for that to bed so doing it now wouldn't be the worst thing, because if we do sack Juric and go for him we'll potentially fuck up the start to the championship season.

Or option two get in a pragmatist like Juric who will spot fix the worst things - an inability to attack, playing players in the wrong position, the beaver like approach to damn building through slow, ponderous, insane passing and the woefully poor fitness levels of the squad. But know we'd probably still go down and know that we've got ourselves a fairly bog standard, nothing special but competent manager.

SR obviously went with option two, the big question now is if it goes wrong will they finally learn to act faster. I very much doubt it, and i'm not that confident about coming straight back up next time round either.

[stevematthews635]

What another shit manager, totally wedded to one formation not suited to the players.

What is it, 9 games and 7 defeats?

Please do not go into next season with this idiot in charge

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, stevematthews635 said:

What another shit manager, totally wedded to one formation not suited to the players.

What is it, 9 games and 7 defeats?

Please do not go into next season with this idiot in charge

Yep let's hope Spors has someone else lined up. 

[Saint Matty 76]

I don't feel quite that strongly as he inherited an absolute shit show.

However, I do agree that I've not seen enough to want him here next season. The set-up is negative and we're ultimately quite dull.

I wouldn't call him an idiot though, and do respect the fact that he gave this is a go when most wouldn't have bothered.

[trousers]

Still too soon to judge, but yet to be convinced he's the answer...

[SambaMaverick]

Thanks for trying mate, but I'd like a Fast and Furious style parting of the ways into the sunset at the end of the season.

No chance should we fritter away a pre-season with him in charge

I'm sure the millions will cushion the blow for him, nice guy 

[Fabrice29]

Ooooh, we're all still blaming the manager I see.

[trousers]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Ooooh, we're all still blaming the manager I see.

House!

[aintforever]

Definitely get a new manager in the summer, we need a clean break from this miserable crap.

[Farmer Saint]

When 5 managers in a row fail with similar players, the problem surely becomes the players?

We need a complete, 100% reset. Hopefully in the Summer we can do that, as we will be in an excellent PSR position (unlike last season and this).

Edited February 8 by Farmer Saint

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Ooooh, we're all still blaming the manager I see.

5 at the back, but only 1 CB, and no striker. Who else picked the team if not Juric ?

[ErwinK1961]

Players, manager, coaches - all of them can leave.

Edited February 8 by ErwinK1961

[Toadhall Saint]

Not the one we need.

[The Kraken]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

When 5 managers in a row fail with similar players, the problem surely becomes the players?

The problem has always been both the manager and the players. Anyone who suggests it’s all of one or all of the other is an idiot.  Today was a perfect example of terrible management, awful formation and tactics, and below par from almost every player.  Today I pin more blame on Juric than anything else as the shape and team choice was just utterly bewildering. But the players did themselves no credit either.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

5 at the back, but only 1 CB, and no striker. Who else picked the team if not Juric ?

People on here loved the no striker against United though? Why is it bad all of a sudden?

[badgerx16]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

People on here loved the no striker against United though? Why is it bad all of a sudden?

Away at OT trying to keep the midfield tight and hit on the break, compared to at home against the best defence in the Championship, where you need somebody to battle with them and prevent them getting comfortable.

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Players, managers, coaches - all of them can leave.

Board ?

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

5 at the back, but only 1 CB, and no striker. Who else picked the team if not Juric ?

Doesn't matter who you play at the back or how many it's full of players who are unproductive going forward and weak mentally. That's the issue, not managers or formations.

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The problem has always been both the manager and the players. Anyone who suggests it’s all of one or all of the other is an idiot.

This. No-one has ever claimed the players are anything but sub-standard (for the PL). Doesn't mean the manager(s) can't be crap too. It's not mutually exclusive (as certain posters would like you to believe...)

Edited February 8 by trousers

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

Away at OT trying to keep the midfield tight and hit on the break, compared to at home against the best defence in the Championship, where you need somebody to battle with them and prevent them getting comfortable.

I was being facetious.

We are such a limited team, and we are so inconsistent that the managers don't know what our best team and formation is, so they try anything. I would like expect, as this is the FA Cup and a free hit, that he decided to try it out as an attacking formation. It didn't work.

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The problem has always been both the manager and the players. Anyone who suggests it’s all of one or all of the other is an idiot.  Today was a perfect example of terrible management, awful formation and tactics, and below par from almost every player.  Today I pin more blame on Juric than anything else as the shape and team choice was just utterly bewildering. But the players did themselves no credit either.

Of course it's not all the players, but I think a lot of it is, and certainly going into the season with one, maybe two PL level players is negligent, but then we didn't really have the money to do anything better.

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Ooooh, we're all still blaming the manager I see.

Well he does take training, pick the team, choose the tactics, decide when to make subs, give the pre-match and half time team talks, makes tactical changes during matches and gets paid a huge wedge so I guess he's got to take some responsibility for shit shows like today. It's not entirely down to the manager but I'm guessing Ivan will admit he's not covered himself in glory today if he's being honest.

[Badger]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Of course it's not all the players, but I think a lot of it is, and certainly going into the season with one, maybe two PL level players is negligent, but then we didn't really have the money to do anything better.

Are you saying we couldn't have spent the c £25m on Archer and BBD any better ? 

[Dusic]

Feel like he has a long way to go to build any kind of rapport with fans to the point where many will feel he is the right man for next year.

He just comes across as being a bit cold and uninspiring.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I was being facetious.

We are such a limited team, and we are so inconsistent that the managers don't know what our best team and formation is, so they try anything. I would like expect, as this is the FA Cup and a free hit, that he decided to try it out as an attacking formation. It didn't work.

This is the big issue. In attack we found consistency last season, at a lower level, but hardly any of those are around now. Maybe rightly so but the replacements aren't new quality, the new ones are either gone on or the bench and we've gone back to the shite we didn't trust last year and we're now back to inconsistent cameos when the pressure is off mainly. Dibling and Fernandes aside of course but they are two young lads finding their way in the top level for the first time but Onuachu and Sulemana ffs, having a good season without them (for large parts) and then ending up back with them again half way into the next season, embarrassing.

Formation is easier to comprehend and shout though.

[SambaMaverick]

9 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Doesn't matter who you play at the back or how many it's full of players who are unproductive going forward and weak mentally. That's the issue, not managers or formations.

So playing a striker on the pitch and maybe a full back on either side doesn't help at all?

Wonder why every team doesn't line up with no striker and four full-backs, it's genius

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Well he does take training, pick the team, choose the tactics, decide when to make subs, give the pre-match and half time team talks, makes tactical changes during matches and gets paid a huge wedge so I guess he's got to take some responsibility for shit shows like today. It's not entirely down to the manager but I'm guessing Ivan will admit he's not covered himself in glory today if he's being honest.

Yeah and so did the previous one, and the one before that, and the one before that and the one before that. 

[Football Special]

2 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Feel like he has a long way to go to build any kind of rapport with fans to the point where many will feel he is the right man for next year.

He just comes across as being a bit cold and uninspiring.

Yeah I look at him stood there and can't picture him leading us to a promotion, hasn't got it in him 

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Are you saying we couldn't have spent the c £25m on Archer and BBD any better ? 

Absolutely not, but that's one more Premier League player in reality, if we get it right.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

So playing a striker on the pitch and maybe a full back on either side doesn't help at all?

Wonder why every team doesn't line up with no striker and four full-backs, it's genius

We've played with a striker this season, in fact our top scoring and assist making striker this season just scored for WBA today because he (rightly) was deemed not good enough but wasn't replaced. It's almost as if the quality of the players matters and not the position we fill on the pitch.

[The Kraken]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely not, but that's one more Premier League player in reality, if we get it right.

And there we have it. We spent more than £100m in the summer. If spending that much and not getting more than “1, maybe 2 premier league level players” is not getting it wrong then I don’t know what is.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, The Kraken said:

And there we have it. We spent more than £100m in the summer. If spending that much and not getting more than “1, maybe 2 premier league level players” is not getting it wrong then I don’t know what is.

But £57m of that was to go into the season with a worse squad than last year (THB, Downes and Archer to replace THB, Downes, Adams and Armstrong).

So in reality we probably spent about £50m on players to fill out a squad that was very light on depth (hence why that £50m went on so many bang average players).

[SambaMaverick]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We've played with a striker this season, in fact our top scoring and assist making striker this season just scored for WBA today because he (rightly) was deemed not good enough but wasn't replaced. It's almost as if the quality of the players matters and not the position we fill on the pitch.

You've completely lost me. Formations/systems are overrated? Not important?

Our best two chances today fell to Manning for fuck sake.

It was a shit game plan, and not for the first time

 

[The Kraken]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

But £57m of that was to go into the season with a worse squad than last year (THB, Downes and Archer to replace THB, Downes, Adams and Armstrong).

So in reality we probably spent about £50m on players to fill out a squad that was very light on depth (hence why that £50m went on so many bang average players).

We didn’t have to spend that money on existing players. It was a choice.

You just said it yourself. £25m gets you a premier league player, if you get it right. We spent 4 times that amount. In extremely basic terms that demonstrates that the transfer policy in itself over the summer was flawed. Blaming a lack of money on all of it seems illogical to me.

[Farmer Saint]

26 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

We didn’t have to spend that money on existing players. It was a choice.

You just said it yourself. £25m gets you a premier league player, if you get it right. We spent 4 times that amount. In extremely basic terms that demonstrates that the transfer policy in itself over the summer was flawed. Blaming a lack of money on all of it seems illogical to me.

We HAD to buy THB - it was contractual. If we hadn't have bought Downes people would have hit the roof as he was our best player last season. But yes, let's take Archer out, keep Ramsdale as Macca isn't even a Champ level keeper, and give ourselves £40m to spend on what, 2 players? We would have been left with:

Ramsdale, Macca, Lumley

KWP, Bedders, THB, Manning, Bree, Stephens

Aribo, Downes, Sulemana, Smallbone, Charles, Edozie, Dibling (even though we didn't know he was going to play his way into the side)

Onuachu, Stewart, Armstrong

 

That's 19 players, 1 short of a PL squad. Add your two £20m players and, yeah, you're right, that screams Premier League to me.

Edited February 8 by Farmer Saint

[The Kraken]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

We HAD to buy THB - it was contractual. If we hadn't have bought Downes people would have hit the roof as he was our best player last season. But yes, let's take Archer out, keep Ramsdale as Macca isn't even a Champ level keeper, and give ourselves £40m to spend on what, 2 players? We would have been left with:

Ramsdale, Macca, Lumley

KWP, Bedders, THB, Manning, Bree, Stephens

Aribo, Downes, Sulemana, Smallbone, Charles, Dibling (even though we didn't know he was going to play his way into the side)

Onuachu, Stewart, Armstrong

 

That's 18 players, 5 short of a PL squad. Add your two £20m players and, yeah, you're right, that screams Premier League to me.

THB was contractual but it was a still a managerial decision to loan him with obligation to buy.

Im not sure what the rest of your point is tbf so prob best leave it there. You think a lack of money was the overwhelming and primary reason we’re currently so bad. I disagree and think it’s a lot more nuanced than that.

[Farmer Saint]

15 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

THB was contractual but it was a still a managerial decision to loan him with obligation to buy.

Im not sure what the rest of your point is tbf so prob best leave it there. You think a lack of money was the overwhelming and primary reason we’re currently so bad. I disagree and think it’s a lot more nuanced than that.

Ok, let's remove everyone we bought this summer and buy 4 x £25m players. Here is your squad to add to, which positions would you buy and what formation/team would you play?

Macca, Lumley

KWP, Bedders, Manning, Bree, Stephens

Aribo, Sulemana, Smallbone, Charles, Edozie, Dibling (even though we didn't know he was going to play his way into the side)

Onuachu, Stewart, Armstrong

 

Edited February 8 by Farmer Saint