Ivan Juric

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I think we’re here.

The new manager is nowhere near being impressive, but it’s clear to almost anyone that there has been a bit of a positive difference since he took over.

Yep to be better than Martin he had to better than absolute shit. He is.

[Wsaint]

8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Sacking Ralph was obviously a massive fuck up.

 

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not many of us thought that at the time. I think we were vastly over-estimating the ability of our players.

 As a Ralph fan, not backing him properly whilst he was here was the fuck up. He was completely and utterly done with us by the end and he probably needed to go, for his own good.

[Harry_SFC]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Sacking Ralph was obviously a massive fuck up.

Possibly but he announced he was leaving at the end of his contract anyway. He was clearly struggling, bloke seemed really worn down by the job. 

[Barsiem]

3 minutes ago, Wsaint said:

 

 As a Ralph fan, not backing him properly whilst he was here was the fuck up. He was completely and utterly done with us by the end and he probably needed to go, for his own good.

Absolutely right.  We broke him by the end unfortunately.  

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Wsaint said:

 

 As a Ralph fan, not backing him properly whilst he was here was the fuck up. He was completely and utterly done with us by the end and he probably needed to go, for his own good.

This. Ralph was on his last legs the previous season when we lost 9 of the last 12 and got 5 points from them. Then over the summer he was forced to hire a coach of the owners’ choosing. And it was likely that his input into transfers was minimal. He certainly had his limitations by then but the handling of him and the first team was more shocking. Getting rid of Ralph ended up being the logical choice. That wasn’t the mistake, replacing him with Jones clearly was. By the time Selles took over it was well down the road of being game over.

[LuckyNumber7]

22 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

Absolutely right.  We broke him by the end unfortunately.  

Yeah. Still hurts that the fans turned against him so vociferously at the end. Bloke gave his all for us with very little financial backing the whole time he was here, but looked completely drained by the end.

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

We look a lot better going forwards and just as bad at the back. So, a clear improvement in my eyes. 

Spot on. We still can’t defend, but at least now when we get the ball in their half our players look to go forward and actually attack their box. We’re much more direct and we’re actually running at people, getting them backpedalling and at least making them have to defend, rather than that ridiculous bullshit of letting them sit comfortably back in their banks of four while we slowly and pointlessly knock it from side to side in front of them achieving absolutely nothing. 

It’s obviously too little too late for this season, but we actually resembled a sensible football team for spells today, rather than just lurching between the soporific and the suicidal like we did before. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Massively bailed out because of two terrible goalkeeping errors. Not much else created in that game, Ipswich created way more. 😂

[Miltonaggro]

[Mboto Gorge]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

If you say so. Personally I see very little difference between our performances and results now, compared to ‘my boy’.

The fact you continue to bizarrely pine for Martin who was the most delusional and out of his depth manager the premier league has probably ever seen in its history, to the point that you’re turning your nose up at a win we’ve achieved less than a few hours ago when other fans are genuinely enjoying it, really is weird fella. Almost like you didn’t want us to win, you sound mighty pissed off about it. Is being proved wrong about martin really more disappointing to you than winning the game today? Fucking ridiculous way to support a Football team if so 

[Baird of the land]

18 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Massively bailed out because of two terrible goalkeeping errors. Not much else created in that game, Ipswich created way more. 😂

Ipswich’s goal was a terrible defensive error. Kind of par for the course for 2 bad teams to make errors. At least we were clinical.

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

The fact you continue to bizarrely pine for Martin who was the most delusional and out of his depth manager the premier league has probably ever seen in its history, to the point that you’re turning your nose up at a win we’ve achieved less than a few hours ago when other fans are genuinely enjoying it, really is weird fella. Almost like you didn’t want us to win, you sound mighty pissed off about it. Is being proved wrong about martin really more disappointing to you than winning the game today? Fucking ridiculous way to support a Football team if so 

I’m guessing but all evidence seems to say “yes”.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Martin had five, Juric has three. It it wasn’t for a Muric horror show, Ivan would be on seven defeats from seven games, let’s not pretend he’s been a revelation.

Our other win against Everton was a breathtaking display of football dominance and no mistake.

Our greatest ever manager gone all gone 💔💔💔💔😢😥😭😢😰😭😭

[Dusic]

Results comparisons etc are pointless. RM was poor but equally the club completely failed to recruit a competitive PL team, proven by the fact that so many of the summer signings have already been bombed out. Especially in attacking areas we just completely fucked up the summer business and will clesrly be relegated because of it.

That said, what I like about Juric is that he seems more open to using the players in a way that suits them. Kamaldeen a primary example has done more under Juric than in 2 years prior. He knows that in the PL as a lower side you need a threat on the break to create chances. Equally has got more from Lesley, Onuachu, arguably Fernandes too.

Whether he stays next season or not, he has been kind of refreshing in his honesty and by not making it all about him like many managers do.

The fact he openly wants to stay next season is good in that it should keep motivation high til the end of the season and if he does stay he will know what he wants for next year.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Results comparisons etc are pointless. RM was poor but equally the club completely failed to recruit a competitive PL team, proven by the fact that so many of the summer signings have already been bombed out. Especially in attacking areas we just completely fucked up the summer business and will clesrly be relegated because of it.

That said, what I like about Juric is that he seems more open to using the players in a way that suits them. Kamaldeen a primary example has done more under Juric than in 2 years prior. He knows that in the PL as a lower side you need a threat on the break to create chances. Equally has got more from Lesley, Onuachu, arguably Fernandes too.

Whether he stays next season or not, he has been kind of refreshing in his honesty and by not making it all about him like many managers do.

The fact he openly wants to stay next season is good in that it should keep motivation high til the end of the season and if he does stay he will know what he wants for next year.

There have been many, many absolutely terrible top division teams over the years yet none of them have done as badly as Martins saints did. do you really believe this squad is as bad as Luton, Sheffield United, Sunderland from a few years ago, Derby the record holders, Norwich from the Covid season to name but a few.  I’d say it isn’t yet it did worse, much worse. 
 

Meanwhile he stuck rigidly to “philosophy” that was clearly never going to work with the players at his disposal and the opposition he was going to face and threw them under the bus every week for not doing what they were told. 
 

Results are very relevant because Martins were the worst ever seen at this level in the matches he had, with the same players Juric is doing better, something the Martin fan boys said would be impossible to achieve with the players available.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

If you say so. Personally I see very little difference between our performances and results now, compared to ‘my boy’.

I thought you weren’t going to mention him again after the Newcastle game…

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, Mboto Gorge said:

The fact you continue to bizarrely pine for Martin who was the most delusional and out of his depth manager the premier league has probably ever seen in its history, to the point that you’re turning your nose up at a win we’ve achieved less than a few hours ago when other fans are genuinely enjoying it, really is weird fella. Almost like you didn’t want us to win, you sound mighty pissed off about it. Is being proved wrong about martin really more disappointing to you than winning the game today? Fucking ridiculous way to support a Football team if so 

I’ll chip in here. Totally agree. It is fucking weird.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Got some luck today, but fully deserved it for the positive decisions he made.
 

Playing the 2 newbies from the start, ending up with a back 3 of Bree, Aribo & Janny B, bringing on Lallana, telling TD to sit back down (as opposed to AL) when Wellington cramped up, keeping Tall Paul on, bringing Smallbone on, all decisions that could of been questioned if we’d lost.

Make no mistake, the winning goal showed  the difference from the previous regime exactly. He’s got Sully running at people, not turning back and passing square. Yes, the keeper did a Baz impression, but fuck me, Sully ran at them, had a shot, and we had a centre forward in the fucking mixer to capitalise on it. 

[Pamplemousse]

Just noted this from his interview after the game - "I told the players, 'Tomorrow morning we have training and we have to believe we are not such a bad team and to win other games'. We are fighting, we don't want to give up, we have character and we want to play like we did today.

 

I'm glad that all these days off have been cancelled. What was RM thinking with that??! 

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

There have been many, many absolutely terrible top division teams over the years yet none of them have done as badly as Martins saints did. do you really believe this squad is as bad as Luton, Sheffield United, Sunderland from a few years ago, Derby the record holders, Norwich from the Covid season to name but a few.  I’d say it isn’t yet it did worse, much worse. 
 

Meanwhile he stuck rigidly to “philosophy” that was clearly never going to work with the players at his disposal and the opposition he was going to face and threw them under the bus every week for not doing what they were told. 
 

Results are very relevant because Martins were the worst ever seen at this level in the matches he had, with the same players Juric is doing better, something the Martin fan boys said would be impossible to achieve with the players available.

I meant result comparisons are pointless because Juric is played 7 lost 6 so his results are also poor but there is clearly sign of improvement as explained.

Comparisons to past seasons are tough because the overall strength and spending of the smaller teams grows every year but clearly novody expected we would have this few points.

It was clear before a ball was kicked that it would be hard to stay up and once the likes of BBD, Cornet and to a lesser extent Archer showed absolutely nothing it was clear we totally messed up the summer window and certainly in attacking areas justdidn't have enough quality to really compete at this level.

I'm absolutely certain if we had Delap or £40m Cunha, Evanilson, Joao Pedro etc then we would have more points and likely be around where Ipswich and Leicester are.

Take a look at the striker section on the OS profiles - its Adam Armstrong, Cameron Archer and Paul Onuachu. That doesn't win you many PL points unfortunately.

Edited Saturday at 22:31 by Dusic

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

I meant result comparisons are pointless because Juric is played 7 lost 6 so his results are also poor but there is clearly sign of improvement as explained.

Comparisons to past seasons are tough because the overall strength and spending of the smaller teams grows every year but clearly novody expected we would have this few points.

It was clear before a ball was kicked that it would be hard to stay up and once the likes of BBD, Cornet and to a lesser extent Archer showed absolutely nothing it was clear we totally messed up the summer window and certainly in attacking areas justdidn't have enough quality to really compete at this level.

I'm absolutely certain if we had Delap or £40m Cunha, Evanilson, Joao Pedro etc then we would have more points and likely be around where Ipswich and Leicester are.

Take a look at the striker section on the OS profiles - its Adam Armstrong, Cameron Archer and Paul Onuachu. That doesn't win you many PL points unfortunately.

I think many things screwed us but the forward recruitment in the Summer is near top of the list. Absolutely abysmal and showed how dysfunctional the recruitment team is and was.

At least Juric seems better able to play players to their strengths even if those are relatively poor in comparison to other in the PL. 

[Dark Munster]

7 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Martin had five, Juric has three. It it wasn’t for a Muric horror show, Ivan would be on seven defeats from seven games, let’s not pretend he’s been a revelation.

And let’s not pretend that Russell Martin was anything more than an absolute dog shit of a manager.

Edited Sunday at 01:15 by Dark Munster

[Convict Colony]

Apologies not saints related but just watched this day in the life of Thomas Frank, very interesting so thought i'd share and didnt know where to put it but assume out managers set up is similar.

 

Edited Sunday at 07:54 by Convict Colony

[aintforever]

6 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

And let’s not pretend that Russell Martin was anything more than an absolute dog shit of a manager.

Who got us promoted at the first attempt.

Next year is going to be piss easy if even a dog shit manager can get us up straight away.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Who got us promoted at the first attempt.

Next year is going to be piss easy if even a dog shit manager can get us up straight away.

He nearly messed that up.

[Fabrice29]

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He nearly messed that up.

He also nearly got more points than he did this season, if ‘nearly’ is allowed to be an argument 🤣

[aintforever]

27 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He nearly messed that up.

Gonna be piss easy getting promoted next year then?

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

He also nearly got more points than he did this season, if ‘nearly’ is allowed to be an argument 🤣

Different league.

Please not this "last season" crap again. There is no comparison. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Gonna be piss easy getting promoted next year then?

Don't be so silly. It will  be a long way from "piss easy".

[aintforever]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Don't be so silly. It will  be a long way from "piss easy".

Why, we got promoted last time with a ‘dog shit’ manager. If it’s so easy then any half decent manager will walk it.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Why, we got promoted last time with a ‘dog shit’ manager. If it’s so easy then any half decent manager will walk it.

That doesn't follow and you know it.

[FarehamSaintJames]

We’ll struggle more next season to get promoted than we did last season.

[StrangelyBrown]

15 hours ago, Wsaint said:

 

 As a Ralph fan, not backing him properly whilst he was here was the fuck up. He was completely and utterly done with us by the end and he probably needed to go, for his own good.

To be honest, and as a Ralph fan myself, he'd run out of ideas and we needed someone new to freshen the place up.

The mistake was replacing him with a Welsh PE teacher who wanted to play a completely different (and basic) style of football.

[Give it to Ron]

18 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

We’ll struggle more next season to get promoted than we did last season.

Why? Have you a crystal ball that tells you who we recruit? Who leaves and stays and what our back room staff is?

Edited Sunday at 10:13 by Give it to Ron

[Harry_SFC]

Downes and Juric fallen out? 

[aintforever]

25 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That doesn't follow and you know it.

Of course it does. Saying bollocks like ‘he almost messed it up’ doesn’t give him the credit he deserves. 
 

Last time we went down this place was full of people saying how hard it is to bounce straight back up, if that’s true then a manager who does it cannot be described as dog shit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Downes and Juric fallen out? 

If true, good. He’s been fucking pony lately and needs a kick up the fucking arse. 

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

If true, good. He’s been fucking pony lately and needs a kick up the fucking arse. 

Yeah probably something to do with being hauled off against Forest then not selected against Newcastle. He has been really poor this season though.

A few of Martin's besties aren't faring too well under Juric. Downes, Manning, Fraser all out of favour. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

 

A few of Martin's besties aren't faring too well under Juric. Downes, Manning, Fraser all out of favour. 

Manning has been ok to be fair. Probably suffering because tactically he doesn’t fit in, but he’s done ok. Fraiser never had a chance once Ivan got a tune out of Sully, what’s annoying me is would Ivan have got more out of Edozie as well. Lego ball certainly stifled him. 

[trousers]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Who got us promoted at the first attempt.

Next year is going to be piss easy if even a dog shit manager can get us up straight away.

Whilst bearing in mind we should all be "moving on", Dark Munster's description of Martin perhaps needs a bit of qualification...

Martin was indeed a "dog shit" manager this season, in that he persisted with an approach that was doomed to failure with the quality of players that we had, alongside the quality of the opposition.

Conversely, he could be considered a "decent" manager last season because his tactics largely worked against inferior opposition in the Championship. (Although, we often weren't convincing against the better sides in the league... A sign of what was to come this season...)

In other words, being "dog shit" and "decent" aren't mutually exclusive descriptions of someone, when taking different circumstances and context into account. 

The bottom line is that Martin was "dog shit" this season and therefore had to go. 

It remains to be seen where Juric ends up on the "dog shit" scale, but signs are that he's getting more out of certain players in the PL than Martin was able to....

Edited Sunday at 10:44 by trousers

[FarehamSaintJames]

26 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Why? Have you a crystal ball that tells you who we recruit? Who leaves and stays and what our back room staff is?

It’s a forum, and simply my opinion.

I think they’ll have to be more of a clear out this summer compared to summer 2023 because of PSR, money isn’t as flush when you have multiple relegations on the go every couple of years.

You have to balance the books more.

It’ll be interesting to see which players are in favour with him. Seemingly some of RM’s best mates like Fraser, Downes etc appear out of favour - but for example no one is paying the £20m we paid for Downes, say if he were to leave.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

It’s a forum, and simply my opinion.

I think they’ll have to be more of a clear out this summer compared to summer 2023 because of PSR, money isn’t as flush when you have multiple relegations on the go every couple of years.

You have to balance the books more.

It’ll be interesting to see which players are in favour with him. Seemingly some of RM’s best mates like Fraser, Downes etc appear out of favour - but for example no one is paying the £20m we paid for Downes, say if he were to leave.

Although it seems we are in a healthier position financially this time around. Of course players will leave but the wage bill is a lot lower compared to two years ago. 

Edited Sunday at 10:45 by Harry_SFC

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Although we are in a much healthier position financially this time around. 

We haven’t had a January 2023 style splurge this time which helps a lot plus Dibling sale will really boost PSR

[Matthew Le God]

31 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

no one is paying the £20m we paid for Downes, say if he were to leave.

£18m and probably not even that £18m yet as some might be based on things like appearances clauses that he hasn't met and won't ever meet if he leaves.

 

Edited Sunday at 11:12 by Matthew Le God

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

We haven’t had a January 2023 style splurge this time which helps a lot plus Dibling sale will really boost PSR

Indeed and the latest 3 year period has just ended. Hoping if we can go straight back up we'll be in a better position to compete (more money to spend, new DOF and a better manager) 

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

It’s a forum, and simply my opinion.

I think they’ll have to be more of a clear out this summer compared to summer 2023 because of PSR, money isn’t as flush when you have multiple relegations on the go every couple of years.

You have to balance the books more.

It’ll be interesting to see which players are in favour with him. Seemingly some of RM’s best mates like Fraser, Downes etc appear out of favour - but for example no one is paying the £20m we paid for Downes, say if he were to leave.

It’s a forum really ? I have only been posting on it for about 20 years!

My opinion is you don’t have a clue what we will do next year and nor do I because there are multiple things to change still.

We finished 4th last time and lost some pathetic games like Cardiff away, Stoke home and got dicked 5 nil at Sunderland .

Players like Aribo will go and that’s a big wage gone. We need centre midfield sorting and hopefully Spors etc can improve the staff and recruitment.

[Hodgey]

It’s too early to tell - Martin was unlucky not to beat Ipswich - we know this team is good enough to compete with Championship level teams.

The true test is when playing average Prem teams (ie Palace, Fulham, Everton, Brentford, Man Utd, West Ham etc) outside of Everton (who were dogshit at this time) Martin was soundly beat - so if Juric can pick up some points against those I’ll see it as true progress.

FWIW so far I think he is getting better and getting a tune out of some players Martin couldn’t.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Just a few comments, as I'm "nearly" about to launch a manned mission to Mars. 🙂

11 hours ago, trousers said:

Whilst bearing in mind we should all be "moving on", Dark Munster's description of Martin perhaps needs a bit of qualification...

Martin was indeed a "dog shit" manager this season, in that he persisted with an approach that was doomed to failure with the quality of players that we had, alongside the quality of the opposition.

Conversely, he could be considered a "decent" manager last season because his tactics largely worked against inferior opposition in the Championship. (Although, we often weren't convincing against the better sides in the league... A sign of what was to come this season...)

In other words, being "dog shit" and "decent" aren't mutually exclusive descriptions of someone, when taking different circumstances and context into account. 

The bottom line is that Martin was "dog shit" this season and therefore had to go. 

It remains to be seen where Juric ends up on the "dog shit" scale, but signs are that he's getting more out of certain players in the PL than Martin was able to....

If success in the Championship, is getting promoted from it, then Martin is a successful Championship manager.

If being a successful Premier League manager is at least getting points to stay in it, then Martin is one of it's least successful managers.

After that, there can be endless discussions from how talented individual skill dug out points for us throughhow effective control was to build from to how successful it would have been with different recruitment.

12 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Downes and Juric fallen out? 

When I first saw it, I was wondering if there was a transfer on the go. But it does seem to be a result of training/ performance. Since nearly everyone was poor under Martin this season, he can't be that wedded to that system.

I was hoping we'd see Downes kick on. In the way Fernandes has, just further back. There's minutes there for him, if he can adapt to Juric's asks.

12 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

To be honest, and as a Ralph fan myself, he'd run out of ideas and we needed someone new to freshen the place up.

The mistake was replacing him with a Welsh PE teacher who wanted to play a completely different (and basic) style of football.

Generally agree. He could have gone at a number of points the season before. But with SR's money, he still ended up without a striker replacement and no Romeu. We'll never know if better recruitment would have got us a bit of momentum and reenergised him to continue.

 

Edited Sunday at 22:22 by Holmes_and_Watson
sp

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, aintforever said:

Of course it does. Saying bollocks like ‘he almost messed it up’ doesn’t give him the credit he deserves. 
 

Last time we went down this place was full of people saying how hard it is to bounce straight back up, if that’s true then a manager who does it cannot be described as dog shit.

“Bollocks”

What part of “he almost messed it up” do you disagree with? 
 

Reasoned answers only please.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, aintforever said:

Of course it does. Saying bollocks like ‘he almost messed it up’ doesn’t give him the credit he deserves. 
 

Last time we went down this place was full of people saying how hard it is to bounce straight back up, if that’s true then a manager who does it cannot be described as dog shit.

I think you’ll find the “dog shit” reference relates to his performance this season, which by any measure fills the description.