Ivan Juric

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

It doesn't take a football genius to work out that Armstrong wasn't going to step up. He struggled painfully the last time we graced this league. Aribo is also shit at this level, just shows how far we have fallen that fans think he is any good. Bree also is absolutely shocking at this level. Bottom line is that we were far too loyal to the players that got us up. Whether that's on the board or RM, I doubt we will ever know. 

Was it loyalty or the fact that they’re under contract?

[danjosaint]

Well RM said himself he was too loyal 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Was it loyalty or the fact that they’re under contract?

Probably a bit of both. But I'm sure we could have moved a few on. Didn't we give Armstrong a new contract after promotion?

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Well RM said himself he was too loyal 

Too loyal to himself.

[Charlie Wayman]

4 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Those 'good' players have only mustered six points and on course to be the worst Premier League team of all time.

Not only that but after the exodus of these so-called "best" players fans will be stuck with the depressing prospect of having to watch the dregs represent us next season in the Championship whether we like it or not. 

Juric's insistence on staying on in the summer and "building a team that can compete (sic)" next season sounds overly much like wishful thinking and hot air rather than grounded belief for our future. How he expects to buy better players than the ones we will lose to achieve his stated aim is beyond me; the whole host of promising kids on our books cannot be turned into world beaters overnight.

We heve to accept that rebuilding will take time and mid table mediocrity is the most likely course for the next two or three seasons, maybe not Stoke but probably not Leeds either.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Looks like he’s staying. Dragan Solak on talksport

“Ivan Juric signed a contract for a year and a half and he is our manager for next season."

Edited Monday at 12:48 by Lord Duckhunter

[Lord Duckhunter]

“We obviously have a very ambitious manager who is trying to change how we play. Unfortunately the squad has been assembled for a different style. He’s trying to do the best he can.”

[Disco Stu]

After saying we'd learn from our mistakes from the last time we were relegated, saying it again doesn't hold much weight.

Edited Monday at 13:02 by Disco Stu

[Midfield_General]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

“We obviously have a very ambitious manager who is trying to change how we play. Unfortunately the squad has been assembled for a different style. He’s trying to do the best he can.”

Sports Republic literally have no idea of the concept of a strategy, do they? 

Each manager they hire has a completely different style to the last. They buy shit players to support that style, then when it doesn't work they sack the manager, bring in someone who plays a completely different way, need different players for that style, rinse and repeat. 

For a club like ours where using what money we have is paramount, it's so inefficient as to be suicidal. Dragan should be cleaning house right now of all the jokers who have advised him so badly and wasted hundreds of millions of pounds of his money. 

He's clearly not a stupid man, so surely he must be able to see that? 

 

Edited Monday at 13:06 by Midfield_General

[leesaint88]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Looks like he’s staying. Dragan Solak on talksport

“Ivan Juric signed a contract for a year and a half and he is our manager for next season."

I'm not against Juric being in charge next season. He spoke recently about having the right player for the right role, sounds simple but it goes back to some of the old school managers bringing in a tall CB to ensure domination in the air. I think if he has the freedom with transfers then we could have a very efficient team next season.  

[Lord Duckhunter]

One good thing about him staying (or the owner saying he’s staying) is players won’t be able to see him out. If they want to play they’ll need to conform and do what they’re fucking told. I always think it’s harder to get your ideas across & harder to drive the players with criticism & hard work if they think “he’ll be gone in the summer”. He’s got the authority to deliver some home truths and knock the softness out of some of them. He’s also got the chance to see who has the character to bounce back and who is a son-in-law. 

Edited Monday at 13:12 by Lord Duckhunter

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

One good thing about him staying (or the owner saying he’s staying) is players won’t be able to see him out. If they want to play they’ll need to conform and do what they’re fucking told. I always think it’s harder to get your ideas across & harder to drive the players with criticism & hard work if they think “he’ll be gone in the summer”. He’s got the authority to deliver some home truths and knock the softness out of some of them. He’s also got the chance to see who has the character to bounce back and who is a son-in-law. 

Don’t think it matters personally. The ones that want to go will be sold because we need the cash, the ones that stay will either be because we need them at Championship level / no-one else wants them.

[Wade Garrett]

29 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Sports Republic literally have no idea of the concept of a strategy, do they? 

Each manager they hire has a completely different style to the last. They buy shit players to support that style, then when it doesn't work they sack the manager, bring in someone who plays a completely different way, need different players for that style, rinse and repeat. 

For a club like ours where using what money we have is paramount, it's so inefficient as to be suicidal. Dragan should be cleaning house right now of all the jokers who have advised him so badly and wasted hundreds of millions of pounds of his money. 

He's clearly not a stupid man, so surely he must be able to see that? 

 

He is cleaning house.  Getting a new DOF in and just got rid of Kraft.

He has also abandoned the ridiculous possession propaganda football.

Mistakes have been made.  In my opinion Ankersen and Kraft have been culpable.  To me, it looks like Dragan lost patience with them and has stepped in himself.  I think this should have all been done much earlier, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[trousers]

13 hours ago, HKsaint said:

How could SR find someone who is worse than Russell Martin

It's going to take much more than 6 games to corroborate that opinion. Given Juric joined in a hopeless situation, and was never going to be able to turn things around this season, I would venture that, say, 10 games into next season is probably the soonest we can logically and directly judge how good Juric is (in comparison with Martin). 

 

Edited Monday at 13:37 by trousers

[Charlie Wayman]

46 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

I'm not against Juric being in charge next season. He spoke recently about having the right player for the right role, sounds simple but it goes back to some of the old school managers bringing in a tall CB to ensure domination in the air. I think if he has the freedom with transfers then we could have a very efficient team next season.  

 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Looks like he’s staying. Dragan Solak on talksport

“Ivan Juric signed a contract for a year and a half and he is our manager for next season."

He would say that though wouldn't he?  I can't imagine he'd come out with anything to undermine a manager midway through a season even if he does decide to reassess at the end of the season.

I'm not that fussed if Juric stays or goes.  There's enough mitigating factors to warrant giving him another chance but equally I expected better than zero points from a possible 18.  

[The Realist]

I am not fussed whether he stays - granted as the owner, the right thing to do is to say that he stays beyond this season, otherwise players will completely give up.  That said, zero points from 18 is bad.  I never really felt that Martin's team was ever thrashed (aside from Spurs).  Most of the time, we were in games but didn't look dangerous in attack.  This was Martin's biggest mistake in that he focussed too much on the risk playing at the back and not enough on the risk of the players in the final third.  That has changed under Juric but we still look terrible.  I would be much happier if we got Rohl in the summer.  I see more of an identity of the team and a style that would be enjoyable to watch.  Not convinced Juric's style is good to watch or successful.  

[Harry_SFC]

21 minutes ago, The Realist said:

I am not fussed whether he stays - granted as the owner, the right thing to do is to say that he stays beyond this season, otherwise players will completely give up.  That said, zero points from 18 is bad.  I never really felt that Martin's team was ever thrashed (aside from Spurs).  Most of the time, we were in games but didn't look dangerous in attack.  This was Martin's biggest mistake in that he focussed too much on the risk playing at the back and not enough on the risk of the players in the final third.  That has changed under Juric but we still look terrible.  I would be much happier if we got Rohl in the summer.  I see more of an identity of the team and a style that would be enjoyable to watch.  Not convinced Juric's style is good to watch or successful.  

We lost 5-1 to Chelsea as well this season and 5-0 to Sunderland and Leicester under Martin last season. Some pretty nasty thrashings right there. 

[SteveO1985]

17 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

We had no such problem under Adkins last time. He even tried being a bit TOO ruthless and dropped Lambert for Rodriguez first game of the season.

Not quite true. We recognised very quickly that Barnard / Jack Cork / Danny Fox / Kelvin Davies were not good enough and upgraded accordingly (Clyne / Rodriguez, Boruc etc)

[Lee On Solent Saint]

35 minutes ago, The Realist said:

I am not fussed whether he stays - granted as the owner, the right thing to do is to say that he stays beyond this season, otherwise players will completely give up.  That said, zero points from 18 is bad.  I never really felt that Martin's team was ever thrashed (aside from Spurs).  Most of the time, we were in games but didn't look dangerous in attack.  This was Martin's biggest mistake in that he focussed too much on the risk playing at the back and not enough on the risk of the players in the final third.  That has changed under Juric but we still look terrible.  I would be much happier if we got Rohl in the summer.  I see more of an identity of the team and a style that would be enjoyable to watch.  Not convinced Juric's style is good to watch or successful.  

Out of interest, if Rohl had not been here before, would the clamour for him to be our next manager be so great? I'll freely admit I've not seen anything of Sheffield Wednesday this season so have no idea what he brings to the table.

 

[64saint]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Looks like he’s staying. Dragan Solak on talksport

“Ivan Juric signed a contract for a year and a half and he is our manager for next season."

Ah yes, the dreaded vote of confidence from the owner !!! He'll be gone by the end of the season then. 🙄 

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

We lost 5-1 to Chelsea as well this season and 5-0 to Sunderland and Leicester under Martin last season. Some pretty nasty thrashings right there. 

The chelsea game should've been 10, also last year think it was hull that gave us a right pasting 

 

[2Morrow]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Out of interest, if Rohl had not been here before, would the clamour for him to be our next manager be so great? I'll freely admit I've not seen anything of Sheffield Wednesday this season so have no idea what he brings to the table.

 

Wednesday were absolutely dead and buried before he took over last year, bottom and 7 points from safety (below Rotherham, Huddersfield etc.) He now has kept them up and has them in touch of playoffs, a huge improvement.

As much as I loved martin and the style of play in the champ, he had never markedly improved anyone (Mk Don's or Swansea).

If you imagine it goes: dead and buried (us now, sheff wed then) -> relegation battle -> lower mid table -> play off hopeful -> top 4  -> title challenger a rough hopeful theory would be he could improve us similarly, from play off hopefuls to being able to contest a relegation battle in the Prem potentially.

Conpletely un scientific madness but there is some logic that he can take players like Valery and Barry Bannan (the team we trounced first game last season) to nearly the playoffs, then he should be able to help us.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, 2Morrow said:

Wednesday were absolutely dead and buried before he took over last year, bottom and 7 points from safety (below Rotherham, Huddersfield etc.) He now has kept them up and has them in touch of playoffs, a huge improvement.

As much as I loved martin and the style of play in the champ, he had never markedly improved anyone (Mk Don's or Swansea).

If you imagine it goes: dead and buried (us now, sheff wed then) -> relegation battle -> lower mid table -> play off hopeful -> top 4  -> title challenger a rough hopeful theory would be he could improve us similarly, from play off hopefuls to being able to contest a relegation battle in the Prem potentially.

Conpletely un scientific madness but there is some logic that he can take players like Valery and Barry Bannan (the team we trounced first game last season) to nearly the playoffs, then he should be able to help us.

Since when has "trounced" been a 2-1 win with the winner in the 87th minute?

[SWLondon Saint]

If Rohl had come in when Juric did, there's an extremely high chance he'd have just lost exactly the same 6 games and everyone would now be calling for his head and a new manager next season. The players were just broken by the end of the Spurs game, it was obvious to anyone watching.

I said around then I thought it'd be better to have a caretaker till the end of the season as there was a high chance it would be a total shitshow given the low morale and quality of the squad.

[goodymatt]

36 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Since when has "trounced" been a 2-1 win with the winner in the 87th minute?

We trounced them on successful passes and possession. 

[CB Fry]

41 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Since when has "trounced" been a 2-1 win with the winner in the 87th minute?

......a little thing called possession stats.

 

I went to that game and keeping the ball for what felt like hours on end was something of a novelty and quite exciting. We learnt.

We didn't trounce them but we should have.

Edited Monday at 17:42 by CB Fry

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

......a little thing called possession stats.

 

I went to that game and keeping the ball for what felt like hours on end was something of a novelty and quite exciting. We learnt.

We didn't trounce them but we should have.

ah yes, apologies. A few weeks without Russball and im already forgetting what really matters.

The real score, of course, was 20 - 80.

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

4 hours ago, leesaint88 said:

I think if he has the freedom with transfers then we could have a very efficient team next season. 

He should have some connections and idea of players in Italy who could help the team.

Like last time we were relegated, I can see players leaving in dribs and drabs and players joining at different stages. Hopefully, Juric (or whoever is manager) can demonstrate their adaptability because the first 11 and the start the season could be a lot different from that at the end of the transfer window.

[2Morrow]

Hey it's the Internet so let's focus on one word.

I retract trounced and replace it with 'comfortably beaten'

The rest stands

Match stats

Sheffield Wednesday vs Southampton

8 Shots 23

1 Shots on target 7

20% Possession 80%

236 Passes 987

72% Pass accuracy 94%

12 Fouls 10

4 Yellow cards 4

0 Red cards 0

2 Offsides 0

3 Corners 6

[Green]

Rohl wasn’t in charge of Sheff Wed for the first game of the season. He was in the home game in January though.

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, Green said:

Rohl wasn’t in charge of Sheff Wed for the first game of the season. He was in the home game in January though.

Where we trounced them 4-0. How can this be?

(or 70-30 in what really matters)

Edited Monday at 18:14 by Turkish

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Turkish said:

Where we trounced them 4-0. How can this be?

Martin had better players at his disposal 

[Convict Colony]

"Solak expressed optimism about the club despite its struggles this season. He emphasized support for manager Ivan Juric, acknowledging that Juric is trying to implement a new style of play which the current squad was not initially assembled for. He noted Juric's dedication and lack of complaints, indicating that the club will try to assist him in his efforts."

Fairplay to Juric and even if he does leave for a job back in Italy its would still dovetail nicely that any players we get to suit his style would also suit Rohls.

[Turkish]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Martin had better players at his disposal 

You’ve obviously waded in and not read the thread, yet again 🙄🙄🙄

[FarehamSaintJames]

He won’t be staying if he picks up little points.

That would be another Sport Republic masterclass. 😂

[notnowcato]

Can’t say there’s been much so far to suggest he’s worth sticking with. Not writing him off yet though. 

[Saint_clark]

12 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The gap in quality between the leagues is bigger than it was 13 years ago.

Are you AI now or something? That is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, SteveO1985 said:

Not quite true. We recognised very quickly that Barnard / Jack Cork / Danny Fox / Kelvin Davies were not good enough and upgraded accordingly (Clyne / Rodriguez, Boruc etc)

Same as MLG, you didn't read the thread. I am saying we didn't have a problem with being ruthless under Adkins and replacing the players that got us promoted.

[Colinjb]

6 hours ago, SteveO1985 said:

Not quite true. We recognised very quickly that Barnard / Jack Cork / Danny Fox / Kelvin Davies were not good enough and upgraded accordingly (Clyne / Rodriguez, Boruc etc)

Debatable on that one.

[FarehamSaintJames]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Can’t say there’s been much so far to suggest he’s worth sticking with. Not writing him off yet though. 

This entirely. 

We might be playing slightly better but it was a low bar to clear.

Also the games has had to pick up points: Fulham, Crystal Palace, West Ham, Forest, even United were there for the taking.

There’s no justification for him being here if he doesn’t start picking up points. It’s not difficult to understand. 😂

 

[woodsaint1]

9 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Out of interest, if Rohl had not been here before, would the clamour for him to be our next manager be so great? I'll freely admit I've not seen anything of Sheffield Wednesday this season so have no idea what he brings to the table.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Young, up and coming manager, but not sure its what we need right now. Fans a bit more invested in him because he was here before obviously

[woodsaint1]

Every chance we still look elsewhere in the summer despite Solak's comments. He was hardly going to say that Juric will be replaced in the summer as that kills any incentive for Juric and just creates more uncertainty for the players. 

Hard to see how he can be kept on if we dont win a game or two the rest of the season, despite the demoralised team hes inherited.

[leesaint88]

11 hours ago, Colinjb said:

Debatable on that one.

Agree. Solid player, his career after Saints shows he was PL level.

[Matthew Le God]

On 26/01/2025 at 22:02, Saint_clark said:

We had no such problem under Adkins last time. He even tried being a bit TOO ruthless and dropped Lambert for Rodriguez first game of the season.

 

On 27/01/2025 at 08:06, Matthew Le God said:

The gap in quality between the leagues is bigger than it was 13 years ago.

 

12 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Are you AI now or something? That is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

 

18 hours ago, SteveO1985 said:

Not quite true. We recognised very quickly that Barnard / Jack Cork / Danny Fox / Kelvin Davies were not good enough and upgraded accordingly (Clyne / Rodriguez, Boruc etc)

 

12 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Same as MLG, you didn't read the thread. I am saying we didn't have a problem with being ruthless under Adkins and replacing the players that got us promoted.

We only signed 7 players in the summer of the 2012/13 season and then only one player in Janaury (Forren who never played a game). My point is that the gap between the leagues is a lot bigger now than 13 years ago and we may need more significant squad changes than just 7 players like we had in 2012/13.

The summer of 2024 was the time to move on Armstrong, Aribo, Bree, Smallbone, Stephens, Manning etc. They aren't good enough for the Premier League and we needed a complete squad overall. Instead, Russell Martin openly admitted he was loyal to the promotion squad. A larger turnover of players may have caused gelling issues, but it is player quality that has let us down this season so I think it should have been a risk worth taking.

Edited Tuesday at 09:21 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

Where we trounced them 4-0. How can this be?

(or 70-30 in what really matters)

 

15 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Martin had better players at his disposal 

 

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

You’ve obviously waded in and not read the thread, yet again 🙄🙄🙄

How is my post not a valid answer to your question?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

How is my post not a valid answer to your question?

Because you ignored my initial point further up the thread and yet again have failed to quote this when you were trying to prove your case above. Therefore you are missing the entire point being made. You fucked up, admit it and move on with your life.

[Matthew Le God]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Because you ignored my initial point further up the thread and yet again have failed to quote this when you were trying to prove your case above. Therefore you are missing the entire point being made. You fucked up, admit it and move on with your life.

What exactly are you suggesting invalidates an answer of 'Martin had better players at his disposal' to a question of how 'Where we trounced them 4-0. How can this be?'.

Edited Tuesday at 09:38 by Matthew Le God

[Turkish]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

What exactly are you suggesting invalidates an answer of 'Martin had better players at his disposal' to a question of how 'Where we trounced them 4-0. How can this be?'.

You are correct, Martin did have better players at his disposal. However where you are failing is that this wasn't the point being made in the wider discussion. You consistent failure to comprehend this is not my fault, it's yours. 

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Turkish said:

You are correct, Martin did have better players at his disposal. However where you are failing is that this wasn't the point being made in the wider discussion. You consistent failure to comprehend this is not my fault, it's yours. 

It wasn't a point. You asked a question. A question isn't a point. I answered the question. So how is my answer not a valid answer to that question?

Do you not know the difference between points/statements and questions?

Plus even if there was something, which I can't see how there would be. This thread is 15 pages long. All I did is answer a question that was asked. Do you really expect everyone to read every post in a long thread to see if there was something else that changed the question so it can't be taken on face value?