Ivan Juric

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We are one of about 20 clubs that if we can it eight can challenge for the top 6 if we get a lot wrong we can end up in league one. 
 

Martin came up with his whiteboard idealistic “philosophy” which might work when you’re in the championship with top players but ain’t going to work in the premier league with inferior players. Trying to execute a perfect philosophy in a sport that is chaotic is never going to work 

Spot on!  Have a look at this:  https://www.football365.com/premier-league/table/all-time-premier-league-table

Here we are solidly in 11th place, with those 20 clubs you mentioned around and below us.  No reason why we can't cement this position, but the experimentation wastes time and there are no magic bullets or short-cuts for a provincial club without spendthrift billionaire owners. 

 

[sfc4prem]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We are one of about 20 clubs that if we get it right can challenge for the top 6 if we get a lot wrong we can end up in league one. 

Agreed. Would that put us amongst the likes of Sunderland, Leicester, Fulham, Forest?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Agreed. Would that put us amongst the likes of Sunderland, Leicester, Fulham, Forest?

Yep you’ve also got clubs like Derby and Sheffield Wednesday who have been really poorly managed for years but in terms of support and scale could be a top half premier league club if they got it right. 

[SWLondon Saint]

1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

Just need to bin off 5atb, doesn't work and won't work, to much riding on your 2 cms , which ours arnt good enough, funny enough Amorim plays the same and look how their doing and that's with cms a damn site better than ours, may work in serie A/Portugal ie slower leagues but not epl 

Shouldn't really matter that much tbh as Juric's style is man-marking based so at least 1 or 2 or the CBs will often push into 'midfield' to pursue their man. On the ball you can see the CB on the side with possession also often goes forward to support the attack.

[Whitey Grandad]

28 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Guy we only go 5 at the back when we dont have the ball.

I like Juric and think we will continue to get better over the coming games, am expecting a good Feb/Mar as fitness improves and he knows who he can "trust"

 

So we retreat back to our own penalty area when we’re under attack?

[Patrick Bateman]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

I cant be bothered to make a stamp but I also like the way he is doing things. I did hear early on he had ruffled a few feathers and some havent taken to him. I suspect it was the RM darlings

Good, as Turkish says - I think they needed a bit of ruffling.  I presume Bereton-Diaz and Fraser were ruffled given their disappearances. With Cornet gone, Lallana not featuring (now the football is faster), Archer merely a bit part, Edwards shipped out, randoms from South America who signed halfway through the season, and apparently 2 Japanese kids who join end of this season, I keep circling back to how bloody appalling our summer transfer window was. Awful. 

Juric and the new leadership team (?) have so much work to do it's ridiculous. 

Edited January 20 by Patrick Bateman

[danjosaint]

10 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Shouldn't really matter that much tbh as Juric's style is man-marking based so at least 1 or 2 or the CBs will often push into 'midfield' to pursue their man. On the ball you can see the CB on the side with possession also often goes forward to support the attack.

But this is the issue, Thb, Bednarek and Manning especially were really far forward and generally on transition so far out of position, hence Downes just flying around everywhere  also your asking some of our worse ball players to engage a cm role, that may work if your Rio but for be I'd rather a 4 with a dedicated mobile cm

Edited January 20 by danjosaint

[Dirkdiggler]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Bit arbitrary since neither you nor I know anything about what goes on at Staplewood. Guess these are your least favourite palyers so chance to stick the knife in.

No just taking a guess buddy.

I should’ve added Armstrong in there as well. 
 

#players 

[John Boy Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

So we retreat back to our own penalty area when we’re under attack?

Now we don't seem to be trying to shoehorn everyone in a Saints shirt into the 6 yard box when defending corners, free kicks etc - inviting the attack onto us more and allowing the oppos to be standing on the edge of the box taking pot shots over mayhem into the net. 

[malcolm waldron]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

I have used my top art design people to draw this up. Note the serrated edge

Would love to have a go at doing one of those but I've limited Photoshop skills unfortunately.  It was Photoshop wasn't it? Is there a tutorial on YouTube you can send a link to so that I can try and work out what you did there?

[FarehamSaintJames]

It must’ve been quite the eye opener for Juric and his team when they came in.

No confidence, no footballing direction, horrific scouting system etc.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Style of football is clearly better imo, but results aren’t yet. 
 

After the shit show start to the season, it was always going to be a difficult ask to turn this round and put the basics in place. The club was wedded to Lego ball for far too long and a total reboot won’t be easy. Personally, I hope Ivan stays and gives it a season in the championship and toughens the club up. Soft as shite for too long. 

[Toussaint]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

I’m going to arrogantly give him my stamp of approval too. He’s taken over a group of largely poor players, not fit enough for the level they’re playing at, with scar tissue from Russball days. His said the right things, seems to be address the key areas. It’s not like his come into a good group who had down tools, he’s trying to turn around a battle ship with an oar. 

 

Well done Turkish, you have just alerted Europe's top clubs to our secret weapon. Words cannot express my disappointment, you, of all people should know this,  loose lips sink ships! 

[OldNick]

31 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Would love to have a go at doing one of those but I've limited Photoshop skills unfortunately.  It was Photoshop wasn't it? Is there a tutorial on YouTube you can send a link to so that I can try and work out what you did there?

A bit insulting, i took ages using special software I got from a Nigerian website. Apparently its state of the art, and can only be used by well trained technicians. The one I used has $100m worth of diamonds that he wants me to pay to release from a bank vault. If you want his number let me know 

[Turkish]

49 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Well done Turkish, you have just alerted Europe's top clubs to our secret weapon. Words cannot express my disappointment, you, of all people should know this,  loose lips sink ships! 

A stamp of approval from the CoT is a badge of honour. I can only apologise for alerting Europes other clubs to our secret weapon. His immediate courting by other clubs and departure is imminent. Now where is the tall Paul thread?

Edited January 20 by Turkish

[Toussaint]

27 minutes ago, OldNick said:

A bit insulting, i took ages using special software I got from a Nigerian website. Apparently its state of the art, and can only be used by well trained technicians. The one I used has $100m worth of diamonds that he wants me to pay to release from a bank vault. If you want his number let me know 

Sounds kosher, can I buy in? 

[OldNick]

32 minutes ago, Turkish said:

A stamp of approval from the CoT is a badge of honour. I can only apologise for alerting Europes other clubs to our secret weapon. His immediate courting by other clubs and departure is imminent. Now where is the tall Paul thread?

I assume now I have a personal stamp you will enrol me in the COT, I also have an Austin Allegro. Ok it wont start (never did to be fair) and full of rust.

[S-Clarke]

I don't have a problem with Ivan at all, but he's into a lost cause really.

What baffles me more than anything is that the club have once again completely changed tact. We went from high press Ralph to a more dogmatic and defensive Jones (long ball really). We went from a dogmatic Jones to a pass, pass, pass Martin and built a squad for that purpose.

We've now gone 360 back to high press again and revisiting what we already had under Ralph, but with the wrong sort of players as we replaced them with passers.

It feels a bit like pin the tail on the donkey with these SR guys, see what sticks. My hunch is that a high press/in your face style does work better for 'lesser' teams, when lesser teams try to out football the better side it never works and I don't know why we thought Martin would be any different.

Edited January 20 by S-Clarke

[revolution saint]

28 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't have a problem with Ivan at all, but he's into a lost cause really.

What baffles me more than anything is that the club have once again completely changed tact. We went from high press Ralph to a more dogmatic and defensive Jones (long ball really). We went from a dogmatic Jones to a pass, pass, pass Martin and built a squad for that purpose.

We've now gone 360 back to high press again and revisiting what we already had under Ralph, but with the wrong sort of players as we replaced them with passers.

It feels a bit like pin the tail on the donkey with these SR guys, see what sticks. My hunch is that a high press/in your face style does work better for 'lesser' teams, when lesser teams try to out football the better side it never works and I don't know why we thought Martin would be any different.

Did we really though?  Whilst we may have kept the ball under Martin it was all pretty safe passing and not the kind of quick incisive adventurous passing game you see from the successful teams.  I think Fernandes is a decent passer and THB has his moments with long diagonals but I'm not sure you could call many of our players "passers".  Personally I think we just bought really poorly and whilst looking at different styles etc can be a bit of fun, ultimately whatever the style used, I don't think many of the players are good enough at premier league level.

Agree with you that it feels a bit strange to keep changing managers with what appears to be different philosophies and although I don't think it makes as much difference as many people would, it does point to a lack of clarity and direction at boardroom level.  Hopefully a director of football will address that.

No real inside information but I think Juric is probably more stopgap than long term and if we get a DoF in then they normally want to make their mark and bring in someone they know and can work with.

[Turkish]

Do we have a spiteful nickname for him yet? Jerkic or the obvious Ivan the terrible. he’s not truly a saints manager until then. 

[John Boy Saint]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Do we have a spiteful nickname for him yet? Jerkic or the obvious Ivan the terrible. he’s not truly a saints manager until then. 

Ivy surely? seeing you haven't made it in British football until Y is added to the end of one of your names or anywhere Eh Turky? 🙃🤪

[Tommy Mulgrew]

Poison Ivy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poison_Ivy_Batman_Vol_3_26.png

https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Poison_Ivy

sorted

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't have a problem with Ivan at all, but he's into a lost cause really.

What baffles me more than anything is that the club have once again completely changed tact. We went from high press Ralph to a more dogmatic and defensive Jones (long ball really). We went from a dogmatic Jones to a pass, pass, pass Martin and built a squad for that purpose.

We've now gone 360 back to high press again and revisiting what we already had under Ralph, but with the wrong sort of players as we replaced them with passers.

It feels a bit like pin the tail on the donkey with these SR guys, see what sticks. My hunch is that a high press/in your face style does work better for 'lesser' teams, when lesser teams try to out football the better side it never works and I don't know why we thought Martin would be any different.

The rationale at the time was that the Championship has extra ganes with typically smaller squads and so a style where you have the ball much more is physically easier and to a large extent it worked - we scored numerous late goals in part because of it.

Clearly the issue has been the transition to a higher level and certainly the style of play didn't work with the players we have, because we have conceded way too many goals and just arent enough of a threat in the final third.

As much as the style has been an issue the recruitment is equally or more to blame IMO. Only Fernandes has really worked out and we are already getting rid of players we signed 6 months ago. To have a situation where we signed BBD, Cornet and Fraser who could all play wide left and 2 have left and the other massively on the fringe is a good summary. Likewise signing a RB when we needed a proper LB instead, giving McCarthy a new deal, not loaning Edwards out in August once it became clear he was got even playing in the League Cup.

All the clubs this season who have pumched above their weight have a very good track record of recruiting and managing contracts to keep their better players until they get big fees for them.

Hopefully Spors can sort this side of the club out because its the only way we have a chance to be successful in the PL.

The fact our best player is probably still on a first pro deal on a pittance when he is a generational talent is also poor management and will probably see us receive (and have to actually consider) stupid £20m plus add on bids in the summer.

[pimpin4rizeal]

I kinda like juric seems a decent guy and I do think he’s improved us attacking wise and it’s nice he’s recognised the potential in Paul and sully .  However I think the concern is  he’s not really making us any more hard to beat then under russ really.. the two man midfield I’m not sure is a good idea as our central midfield is probably our weakest area player wise    We have very little in the way of solid defensive midfielders .

not knocking him and happy for him to continue at the moment just find it a bit concerning when we are putting out rwo man midfields with two of aribo downes and les being  the personnel 

Edited Tuesday at 21:21 by pimpin4rizeal

[Badger]

7 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

……We have very little in the way of solid defensive midfielders

not knocking him and happy for him to continue at the moment just find it a bit concerning when we are putting out rwo man midfields with two of aribo downes and les being  the personnel 

You might have covered that in your earlier comment.
 

He’s not exactly spoilt for choice is he ? Unless you’d rather he select Smallbone there. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

19 minutes ago, Badger said:

You might have covered that in your earlier comment.
 

He’s not exactly spoilt for choice is he ? Unless you’d rather he select Smallbone there. 

Yeah to be fair downes was out which left him only les and atibo.. but I guess we could have put fernandes in there? And with downes back we still had the two man midfield  we do look a lot better now in attack and not as slow and ponderous ..

but we still are super easy to score against so I think the tactics are still wrong and we could do with maybe a three man midfield covering that can make us less easy to cut through .

a lot of us wanted a more pragmatic manager like moyes but I don’t think juric has really been that.. he’s improved the attack but we are still a shambles at the back 

Edited Tuesday at 21:48 by pimpin4rizeal

[Convict Colony]

With the midfield thing I'd assumed as we are playing wingbacks if KWP presses high covering the ball I'd guess suga would come inside to make the midfield 3 and if it switches the roles would reverse.

Not sure if it happens every time, maybe more playing time will help.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Next season:

Danny Rohl as manager

Ralph Hassenhutl as director of football

Johannes Spors as technical director

[SambaMaverick]

35 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Next season:

Danny Rohl as manager

Ralph Hassenhutl as director of football

Johannes Spors as technical director

And Prowsey with the armband 😉

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

And Prowsey with the armband 😉

Oh god. Lego ball again. 

[Matthew Le God]

3 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Next season:

Danny Rohl as manager

Ralph Hassenhutl as director of football

Johannes Spors as technical director

Why would he leave his current job for that?

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Next season:

Danny Rohl as manager

Ralph Hassenhutl as director of football

Johannes Spors as technical director

Jack Stephens as the waterboy.

 

 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

I am not sure whether this article has been mentioned on here before.  Certainly I had not read it until now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cx2k887nzlno

Imagine if Ivan can repeat Gasperini’s feat here in the Premier League.

A few interesting quotes:

… Gasperini has learned to accept that the better he does, the quicker he loses his best players. The Goddess can thrill but she must always sell, and Gasperini is back at square one at the start of nearly every season, teaching, developing and transmitting his footballing ideals.

In November it was announced for the 9th season in a row that Atalanta had closed their accounts in profit. Since Antonio Percassi became president in 2010, the club has made nearly 600m euros in capital gains. Over 400m euros of that came when Gasperini was installed as coach, proving just how well the coach has developed players into stars coveted by the biggest European teams. …

Under Gasperini, Atalanta have sold a plethora of exciting talent for sizable amounts of money. Whether it be Rasmus Hojlund to Manchester United for £72m, Teun Koopmeiners to Juventus for £46.1m, Cristian Romero for £42.5m or Dejan Kulusevski for £29.7m, La Dea have been well compensated for Gasperini's ability to extract talent and dedication from talented young players. …

 

"I worked with coaches like Mourinho, Ancelotti and Rafa Benitez, but nobody like Gasperini. He taught me so much on a human, technical and tactical level," remarked Thiago Motta in 2016 when still a player for Paris Saint-Germain. …

 

During training, my players need to struggle; those who aren't used to working hard scare me," Gasperini told the Guardian. 

"I had never seen such intensive pre-season training as Gasperini's with Atalanta," exclaimed Duvan Zapata. "There were moments when I thought, I simply can't do this. I can't. I'd wait 30 seconds and then go again." …

A tactical genius, Gasperini's teams are instantly recognisable for their fluidity, relentless attacks, and intense and aggressive pressing. Yet in a league built upon neutralising strengths, Atalanta have rarely been exposed - in fact they appear harder to beat every season, even when playing every three days. …

 

His ability to exploit the potential of his players while remaining faithful to his footballing ideals has ensured Atalanta's success. Players feel confident, empowered to trust their instincts but also aware that life is hard under Gasperini. …

 

We can but dream.  😇

And that hope applies to both us fans and Dragan.

[Fabrice29]

Juric confirming he wants to be here next season in the press conference even if we’re relegated. Intrigued to know if people think results will dictate that. 2 wins before the end of the season enough do we think? What about another 2 big defeats?

Edited Thursday at 22:42 by Fabrice29

[goodymatt]

 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Results will dictate if he’s here or not next season. 
Let’s not gloss over the fact he’s picked up one point from fifteen is it so far? A feat which doesn’t look like improving any time soon.

😂

Getting relegated is one thing, but are people seriously going to want to keep him if we only got twelve points this season. We’ll be lucky to make double figures. 🤣

If we went down we’d be better starting afresh, players, backroom staff and squad.

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Results will dictate if he’s here or not next season. 
Let’s not gloss over the fact he’s picked up one point from fifteen is it so far? A feat which doesn’t look like improving any time soon.

😂

Getting relegated is one thing, but are people seriously going to want to keep him if we only got twelve points this season. We’ll be lucky to make double figures. 🤣

If we went down we’d be better starting afresh, players, backroom staff and squad.

Agreed

[Colinjb]

3 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Results will dictate if he’s here or not next season. 
Let’s not gloss over the fact he’s picked up one point from fifteen is it so far? A feat which doesn’t look like improving any time soon.

😂

Getting relegated is one thing, but are people seriously going to want to keep him if we only got twelve points this season. We’ll be lucky to make double figures. 🤣

If we went down we’d be better starting afresh, players, backroom staff and squad.

I would rather judge on the performances themselves rather then results. I want to see if he can be flexible in his thinking, if he can improve any of the players at his disposal and get us more cohesive.

Sure, the logic will be that if he succeeds the results should follow, but, considering how deficient we have been... I just want to see us putting up a fight.

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Results will dictate if he’s here or not next season. 
Let’s not gloss over the fact he’s picked up one point from fifteen is it so far? A feat which doesn’t look like improving any time soon.

😂

Getting relegated is one thing, but are people seriously going to want to keep him if we only got twelve points this season. We’ll be lucky to make double figures. 🤣

If we went down we’d be better starting afresh, players, backroom staff and squad.

 

On 20/12/2024 at 18:01, FarehamSaintJames said:

Let’s be honest, it’s a low bar he has to clear, if he can get us six points for the remainder of the season then he can be hailed a hero 😂

 

[Patrick Bateman]

3 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

I would rather judge on the performances themselves rather then results. I want to see if he can be flexible in his thinking, if he can improve any of the players at his disposal and get us more cohesive.

Sure, the logic will be that if he succeeds the results should follow, but, considering how deficient we have been... I just want to see us putting up a fight.

Same.

Let's face it, the squad is going to change, there will be a lot of movement - he's getting better performances from the team and from players cast into the shadow before. All I know if I have enjoyed most (ahem, not Brentford) of our matches a LOT more than under Martin. Result is the same so far, but enjoyment has been higher.  Now to add to the points ... 

[Lighthouse]

10 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Results will dictate if he’s here or not next season. 
Let’s not gloss over the fact he’s picked up one point from fifteen is it so far? A feat which doesn’t look like improving any time soon.

😂

Getting relegated is one thing, but are people seriously going to want to keep him if we only got twelve points this season. We’ll be lucky to make double figures. 🤣

If we went down we’d be better starting afresh, players, backroom staff and squad.

I must have missed that.

If there’s one luxury we do have, it’s knowing our fate months in advance and being able to plan now for life in the Championship. My gut instinct is to go for Rohl, who knows the league much better than Juric and seems to be doing well at Wednesday. On the flip side, if we start seeing some promising results with the latter towards the end of the season, then he might be worth considering.

[danjosaint]

I like him but he's another who's wedded to a formation,  yes we've crap players but worryingly we lose the midfield a lot due to his favoured formation, no coincidence one of our best performances was against utd who also play the same 343 formation. Despite all the hipster tactics of cb's moving into midfield  it doesn't work, your asking a bunch of ltd footballing cb's to become a cm in the strongest league in the world, one where Mikel Damsgarrd looked like prime Iniesta against us, sorry but set up you best back 4 then build from there, get that right then the options of 4231/4132/4141 or 433 become so much better suited to the Epl

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, danjosaint said:

I like him but he's another who's wedded to a formation,  yes we've crap players but worryingly we lose the midfield a lot due to his favoured formation, no coincidence one of our best performances was against utd who also play the same 343 formation. Despite all the hipster tactics of cb's moving into midfield  it doesn't work, your asking a bunch of ltd footballing cb's to become a cm in the strongest league in the world, one where Mikel Damsgarrd looked like prime Iniesta against us, sorry but set up you best back 4 then build from there, get that right then the options of 4231/4132/4141 or 433 become so much better suited to the Epl

We lose the midfield a lot because our only proper centre midfielder is Flynn Downes who is an above average championship player at best. 

[Convict Colony]

Newcastle converted Joelinton from 30m forward to midfielder, given our strikers dont score either which one would be good for midfield ?

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Newcastle converted Joelinton from 30m forward to midfielder, given our strikers dont score either which one would be good for midfield ?

I think Armstrong did a good job there when asked last season but basically because he just ran up and down a lot. Not sure anyone we have is technically or physically good enough to be in midfield

[Holmes_and_Watson]

14 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Newcastle converted Joelinton from 30m forward to midfielder, given our strikers dont score either which one would be good for midfield ?

Mark Hughes

Sorry. Still have scar tissue 🙂

[Wade Garrett]

On 23/01/2025 at 23:13, FarehamSaintJames said:

Results will dictate if he’s here or not next season. 
Let’s not gloss over the fact he’s picked up one point from fifteen is it so far? A feat which doesn’t look like improving any time soon.

😂

Getting relegated is one thing, but are people seriously going to want to keep him if we only got twelve points this season. We’ll be lucky to make double figures. 🤣

If we went down we’d be better starting afresh, players, backroom staff and squad.

And how many points do you think Danny Rohl would get this season with our squad?

It was always going to take time to turn this shit around.  I would take Juric over any Doogie Howser PowerPoint muncher any day of the week.

[Osvaldorama]

Well done SR. 

Replaced one clueless twat with another clueless twat. 
 

Joke of a football club. 

[AlexLaw76]

If he is wedded to 3/5 at the back… it is a no from me

[Lighthouse]

Can't blame Juric, this is where this squad is at. They're just sh*t players, it really is that simple.

That said, 17 goals conceded in 6 games isn't great.