Ivan Juric

[Fabrice29]

New managers, more attackers, different formations. EVERYTHING IS SO SIMPLE WHY DONT THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE JUST DO IT THE WAY I HAVE DECIDED IT SHOULD BE DONE AND JUST WIN FFS!

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

New managers, more attackers, different formations. EVERYTHING IS SO SIMPLE WHY DONT THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE JUST DO IT THE WAY I HAVE DECIDED IT SHOULD BE DONE AND JUST WIN FFS!

Yep, as a number of people have said on here over the past few months, it doesn't matter what manager we bring in, it literally can't get any worse.

 

 

 

Except it can.

Edited Sunday at 19:34 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Trying to shake off the effects of 18 months & 2 preseasons of Lego ball will be incredibly difficult to achieve, particularly when you’ve got players like Downes, Manning & Archer who look like they were specifically brought in to play it. He needs a few out of favour and haven’t been playing it week in, week out, like Tall Paul, Big Les, Salamana, ABK and maybe SAA to step up. However, there’s no sign of that anytime soon.  

Archer isn't a player for a Martin system, he's for a quick counter team, so he can play off the last man. A Martin team doesn't play that way.

Downes can only play a possession game - he's rubbish at everything else as I warned in the Summer. There was a good reason he didn't get game time for West Ham.

[saintwbu]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Archer isn't a player for a Martin system, he's for a quick counter team, so he can play off the last man. A Martin team doesn't play that way.

Downes can only play a possession game - he's rubbish at everything else as I warned in the Summer. There was a good reason he didn't get game time for West Ham.

At least he’s good at something, as opposed to Les who is good at nothing. 

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yep, as a number of people have said on here over the past few months, it doesn't matter what manager we bring in, it literally can't get any worse.

 

 

 

Except it can.

I don't think "it" has got worse necessarily fwiw. I just find it so funny that people think the answer to stuff is simple things like tactics or style. If you're not good enough at a level, certainly mentally, then different ways of playing just means a different way of losing. 

[Farmer Saint]

11 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I don't think "it" has got worse necessarily fwiw. I just find it so funny that people think the answer to stuff is simple things like tactics or style. If you're not good enough at a level, certainly mentally, then different ways of playing just means a different way of losing. 

Saturday was worse than anything I've seen from Saints, period.

[Fabrice29]

On 03/01/2025 at 21:13, coalman said:

The manager is the one held responsible for results. They coach the team. They pick the team. They choose the tactics. They work with the team that brings in new players to fit their system. They choose when training happens or whether to take days off. So, yes, the first place you look is the manager.

Unless you're the fucking excuse monkey we just had where he couldn't see what he could do short of stopping the game to tell the players they were great (his words) and kept banging on about how his points total was undeserved.

Now, it may well be this group of players couldn't have stayed up but I struggle to understand how Martin could have got less out of them this season.

Just seen this reply.

The previous manager quite literally delivered us back to the PL and therefore success if we're holding the manager responsible for results.

Yes, this season it went badly but it also went badly for three other managers at this level the year prior and its started off badly for another manager now. At some stage, someone, somewhere will have to start looking at other factors than the manager, maybe some of the players who have spanned all three seasons shouldn't be relied upon or in some cases rewarded for continually being out their depth at this level, why don't we afford managers the same kind of time these guys get, or vice versa, why don't we be as brutal as we are with mangers with players? The answer is because it's simpler not to, easier to compute, easier to call for a change in the manager than face up to the reality and to find peace with the reality. So yeah, Martin was responsible, as were the three guys before him and so will Juric. Cant wait to go into next season with Bednarek, Stephens, Armstrong and whoever else again and maybe they do well enough and then be back with them again the year after that and blame the manager again. Super fun. Or maybe next year we wont. 

Edited Sunday at 20:09 by Fabrice29

[Turkish]

Just watching Roma v Lazio. The commentator said one of the biggest complaints about Jusic was his football was too slow with possession for possessions sake 😂😂😂😂😂

[coalman]

10 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Just seen this reply.

The previous manager quite literally delivered us back to the PL and therefore success if we're holding the manager responsible.

Yes, this season it went badly but it also went badly for three other managers at this level the year prior and its started off badly for another manager now. At some stage, someone, somewhere will have to start looking at other factors than the manager, maybe some of the players who have spanned all three seasons shouldn't be relied upon or in some cases rewarded for continually being out their depth at this level, why don't we afford managers the same kind of time these guys get, or vice versa, why don't we be as brutal as we are with mangers with players? The answer is because it's simpler not to, easier to compute, easier to call for a change in the manager than face up to the reality and to find peace with the reality. So yeah, Martin was responsible, as were the three guys before him and so will Juric. Cant wait to go into next season with Bednarek, Stephens, Armstrong and whoever else again and maybe they do well enough and then be back with them again the year after that and blame the manager again. Super fun. Or maybe next year we wont. 

If you have shit players you make damn sure you work hard and set yourself up to be hard to beat. Football history is replete with teams who punched above their weight through hard work and organisation. Instead of us punching below our weight.

A good start would be working hard again.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Just watching Roma v Lazio. The commentator said one of the biggest complaints about Jusic was his football was too slow with possession for possessions sake 😂😂😂😂😂

He’s read the room and played to the crowd. He said himself he’d watched us for a while and therefore knew what the fans wanted. People were actively cheering long balls from the keeper to the smallest guys on the pitch before he joined. Fair play to him too although he might want to take note of Ramsdales comments after Fulham if he wants to keep the players onside as well. 

[Fabrice29]

8 minutes ago, coalman said:

If you have shit players you make damn sure you work hard and set yourself up to be hard to beat. Football history is replete with teams who punched above their weight through hard work and organisation. Instead of us punching below our weight.

A good start would be working hard again.

Add ‘working hard’ to my post to the top of this page.

[Galway saint]

He’s not to blame for the current shambles but you have to wonder when he will get his first point.

We struggle to even have a shot on target never mind score goals 

Everyone now knows we are relegated and there’s nothing to play for and so how does he motivate the players. 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

47 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

it also went badly for three other managers at this level the year prior

Not quite as badly as Lego though… And unlike him, 2 of them didn’t have pre season to bed their ideas in. 

Edited Sunday at 20:54 by Lord Duckhunter

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not quite as badly as Lego though… And unlike him, 2 of them didn’t have pre season to bed their ideas in. 

They did have better players though...

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

People need to calm down a bit. It was untenable for Lego to continue and it’s going to take more than 3 games to turn this round, particularly when the players don’t seem fit enough. 
 

Let’s see where we are after he’s managed a similar number of premier league games to Lego, as we can’t change manager again. 
 

 

Pragmatism? On the the Saintsweb forum? Nah, can't see it catching on...

[Matthew Le God]

18 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Everyone now knows we are relegated and there’s nothing to play for and so how does he motivate the players. 

Getting more than Derby's 11 points 🤔

[Fabrice29]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not quite as badly as Lego though… And unlike him, 2 of them didn’t have pre season to bed their ideas in. 

I'm not having a pop at any of the managers btw and stop saying Lego, it's not witty  

Edited Sunday at 21:06 by Fabrice29

[Lord Duckhunter]

The reason we are so far behind Ipswich and Leicester and down by Xmas is down to Russell fucking Martin’s vanity project. The players didn’t start the season rock bottom, lacking confidence and belief. His ridiculous tactics, encouragement of mistakes and lack of proper premier league fitness, have resulted in a complete and utter lack of belief from the playing field, to the stands. Ivan has been handed a hospital pass and the person who handed it to him was that arrogant Lego headed cock. I’ve no doubt had Ivan taken over in June, we’d have more than 6 fucking points (and only 5 of them were legos) 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

I'm not having a pop at any of the managers btw and stop saying Lego, it's not witty  

When he stops being a cock, I’ll stop calling him Lego. 

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Getting more than Derby's 11 points 🤔

This is horseshit as well by the way. Professional pride is what should and will motivate players not some target everyone has in their heads will be the ultimate judgement of us. Who gives a fuck what anyone else thinks. The idea the players need motivating or aren't working hard is toss. They are physically and mentally out of their depth being mopped up in a ridiculously ruthless league.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

The idea the players need motivating or aren't working hard is toss.

BRENTFORD boss Thomas Frank labelled accusations Saints gave up in their 5-0 defeat "fair" 

[coalman]

41 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Add ‘working hard’ to my post to the top of this page.

Why? Shouty caps doesn't make your post any less whiny.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

BRENTFORD boss Thomas Frank labelled accusations Saints gave up in their 5-0 defeat "fair" 

I'm not talking about the final minutes of Saturday, I'm talking about the season and the idea that Derbys 11 points should be the motivation now. It's bollocks and arbitrary. 

1 minute ago, coalman said:

Why? Shouty caps doesn't make your post any less whiny.

Or sarcastic.

[Matthew Le God]

17 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Getting more than Derby's 11 points 🤔

 

12 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

This is horseshit as well by the way. Professional pride is what should and will motivate players not some target everyone has in their heads will be the ultimate judgement of us. Who gives a fuck what anyone else thinks. 

I wasn't being entirely serious

[Saint_clark]

Have we EVER had a new manager bounce? I guess Adkins counts but we were doing OK under Pardew before that anyway. 

[OttawaSaint]

30 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Have we EVER had a new manager bounce? I guess Adkins counts but we were doing OK under Pardew before that anyway. 

For a manager that has arrived mid season I think you have to go as far been as Hoddle for one that won in their first game. 

[sledger]

i think juric put all the dead wood in the pound shop window with this team to show the owners how bad our squad is as they appear to have no clue

[AlexLaw76]

Unless he changes his set up, he will do well to last the season… where he will part with the club anyway.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

11 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Saturday was worse than anything I've seen from Saints, period.

hyperbole

 

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Archer isn't a player for a Martin system, he's for a quick counter team, so he can play off the last man. A Martin team doesn't play that way.

Downes can only play a possession game - he's rubbish at everything else as I warned in the Summer. There was a good reason he didn't get game time for West Ham.

Downes is an expert at making a 3 day injury last a month.

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Saturday was worse than anything I've seen from Saints, period.

Missed the first half against Spurs then.

[Roo1976]

11 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Saturday was worse than anything I've seen from Saints, period.

We are broken arnt we, sad to say that was the worst collapse ive seen in a long time even by this seasons standards and that's not much. THB looks at best bang average at this moment in time .Best on Saturday Walker Peters. Theres no structure or indeed belief from the players to suggest that were capable of improvement at this late part of the season. As long as we beat Derbys dreadful points tally were not another statistic for the records book.

[Convict Colony]

Ivan did say after the match that this week he would sit down and discuss with the board what needs to happen.

That result will empower him to be bolder i would suggest in what needs to change, get rid of and recruit, it will then be up to anus ankerson and hooverboy to deliver it.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Missed the first half against Spurs then.

I think this was worse tbh, especially taking into consideration that Brentford were worse away from home than we are.

[Sarnia Cherie]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Ivan did say after the match that this week he would sit down and discuss with the board what needs to happen.

That result will empower him to be bolder i would suggest in what needs to change, get rid of and recruit, it will then be up to anus ankerson and hooverboy to deliver it.

I suspect you wrote this, tongue in cheek. If you have faith that Juric can give SR a kick up the arse and get the players we desperately need, then good for you. Personally, my faith in SR went some time ago for very obvious reasons. 20th place, 6 points and a goal difference of -32.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Ivan did say after the match that this week he would sit down and discuss with the board what needs to happen.

That result will empower him to be bolder i would suggest in what needs to change, get rid of and recruit, it will then be up to anus ankerson and hooverboy to deliver it.

It wouldn't be the first time in history a manager has put a team out to highlight what the weaknesses are to the board. Maybe by playing some of those players he was doing this? I cant think of any other reason why he would have started with Sulemana who in two years has done nothing to show hes even a championship level player, plus Aribo and Lesly in CM.

[Mr Nimbus]

Something I have thought for a while and something that has continued under Juric. What benefits are there from playing 5 at the back.

I'm sure people will say, maybe rightly, that its 3 and the "wing backs" are supposed to push forward etc. I understand that part, but imo we went to 5ATB to try and prevent shipping goals. Which is what happens with a lot of managers when things come off the rails. So if thats the case, its failed miserably.

I personally think it's completely limited us in attack, which lets be honest was woeful at the best of times anyway. It's nullified the only spark we showed with Dibling and to my mind does not fit the limited squad we have.

Not the biggest issue by any means, but with a midfield as porous and immobile as ours is, it's an easy tweak I think is being overlooked

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Ivan did say after the match that this week he would sit down and discuss with the board what needs to happen.

That result will empower him to be bolder i would suggest in what needs to change, get rid of and recruit, it will then be up to anus ankerson and hooverboy to deliver it.

Therein lies our biggest problem.

[benali-shorts]

He must keeping bringing players on, thinking that they can't possible be any worse than the current ones, only to be unpleasantly surprised each time. 

Next cab off the rank will be AB-K, who has barely played for 18 months, having been a mainstay of our relegation defence. Poor old Juric will be genuinely excited at the prospect of Stephens being available next month. Someone should warn him......

[east-stand-nic]

Not sure if already mentioned, but a huge factor in all this is fitness. Clearly under RM they were very unfit. IJ is known for having very fit players. The interim will see alot of jaded bodies as they are likely being pushed very hard in training now and as such when a game comes up maybe they cannot handle it as yet. 

[Wade Garrett]

28 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think this was worse tbh, especially taking into consideration that Brentford were worse away from home than we are.

True, but we did have a stronger side out against Spurs.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think this was worse tbh, especially taking into consideration that Brentford were worse away from home than we are.

By what measure? Before Saturday's game, Brentford had played 9 aways, drawing 2 and losing 7 (0.22 points per game). We had played 10 aways, drawing 2 and losing 8 (0.2 points per game)....

Some might also say that Brentford's aways were on the trickier side too.... Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Man Utd, Fulham, Villa, Chelsea. (they took the lead in 4 of those matches, FWIW)

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Not sure if already mentioned, but a huge factor in all this is fitness. Clearly under RM they were very unfit. IJ is known for having very fit players. The interim will see alot of jaded bodies as they are likely being pushed very hard in training now and as such when a game comes up maybe they cannot handle it as yet. 

Not just unfit but untrained. Those extra days at Staplewood could have been spent learning how to defend corners and set pieces or even, dare I say it, learning how to mount an attack.

[hypochondriac]

That performance was awful but you can hardly blame someone with this terrible shower of players, with Fernandes and Downes out and very little to replace them. He has to be given time to implement things (his staff only arrived this week). 

[benjii]

For me, the juric is out.

[benjii]

32 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not just unfit but untrained. Those extra days at Staplewood could have been spent learning how to defend corners and set pieces or even, dare I say it, learning how to mount an attack.

It's a good point. It's pathetic how bad our set pieces are, both defending and attacking.

[goodymatt]

The West Ham game is an example of how 3 at the back can work to create chances. If Tall Paul or Fernandes were able to finish their dinner we would have won that game comfortably. That as Juric keeps saying is the way forward.

It is difficult to judge Juric in this impossible situation. Players aren’t good enough. Players have accepted relegation. Mentality is fragile and fans have turned. At this moment I don’t have doubts about Juric’s credibility but more about how the second half of the season will likely render his position untenable. Brave to take the job but if there is a rumoured get out clause at the end of the season, he might be keen to take it.

[east-stand-nic]

Add to my previous comment; after the easy life they are said to have had with their 'mate' RM, perhaps they are all adjusting to a real BOSS running things and it has them a bit down for the time being as they are having to work for their money. Akin perhaps to how a lot of us felt when we went from the cushy middle school life to a secondary modern at age 13. The change up in discipline and work bit us hard.

[Morse]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

It's a good point. It's pathetic how bad our set pieces are, both defending and attacking.

I believe we have no set piece coach. Just another example of SR ineptitude.  

[goodymatt]

35 minutes ago, Morse said:

I believe we have no set piece coach. Just another example of SR ineptitude.  

We paid an unnamed consultant recently and that appears to have made zero improvement. Very strange that we haven’t replaced this role. It’s been a glaring issue all season. 

We desperately need an experienced director of football.