Fulham 0-0 Southampton - Match Thread

[austsaint]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

So it turns out (regardless of if they keep it for 6 minutes) clearing the danger and giving the ball to the opposition in their own half, is a load less likley to result in a goal than trying to keep it and giving it to them on the edge of your own box.... funny that. 

Along similar lines; I noticed that of the many Ramsdale long clearances which didn’t find touch - around half resulted in Saints regaining possession in Fulham’s half.  

[Roo1976]

8 minutes ago, Dman said:

Was being 'played' (I say played loosely as hardly got a sniff) in the wrong role and system. 

We'd be mad to send him back to chelsea without taking a look first. From what I've seen, he'll be a shit load more suited to IJ system than Aribo will. 

Aribo just waves his arms about and goes through the motions of not getting the ball ,and tracks back about 3-4 paces of the action ,again terrible scouting and where will he fit into the setup.

[Fabrice29]

22 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Along similar lines; I noticed that of the many Ramsdale long clearances which didn’t find touch - around half resulted in Saints regaining possession in Fulham’s half.  

26% pass success for Ramsdale if we’re being factual. 

[austsaint]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

26% pass success for Ramsdale if we’re being factual. 

No, what I was talking about were long Ramsdale clearances initially won by a Fulham player but intercepted or regained by a Saints player high up the pitch.  

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

26% pass success for Ramsdale if we’re being factual. 

Talking of being factual, of those 74% that weren't succesful, none were straight to the striker which resulted in a goal... I'd call that a sucess. 

[OldNick]

My take is that I feel this is a great point. We could have had a penalty and stole a win. When Traore came on i feared the worse as he always torments us. 

A good scrapping performance and not too much playing around at the back. Our forwards are too lightweight and need a help up alongside one of them. 

Ramsdale save marvellous and won us the point. Iam still mad enough to believe we can survive but it will need Tall Paul or another strong forward to score 5-10 goals from now on in.

Tyler seems a tad lost and Im sure all the speculation around him doesnt help.

The 3 centre backs did well, the fans brilliant as well

Onwards and upwards.

[austsaint]

5 minutes ago, OldNick said:

My take is that I feel this is a great point. We could have had a penalty and stole a win. When Traore came on i feared the worse as he always torments us. 

A good scrapping performance and not too much playing around at the back. Our forwards are too lightweight and need a help up alongside one of them. 

Ramsdale save marvellous and won us the point. Iam still mad enough to believe we can survive but it will need Tall Paul or another strong forward to score 5-10 goals from now on in.

Tyler seems a tad lost and Im sure all the speculation around him doesnt help.

The 3 centre backs did well, the fans brilliant as well

Onwards and upwards.

You’re right about Traore.   Seems to play out of his skin against us.  Always starred for Wolves v Saints, and nothing has changed.

[LGTL]

52 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

26% pass success for Ramsdale if we’re being factual. 

What % were won back by Saints after the initial Fulham header/clearance? And what % of those were in the Fulham half instead of our own fucking penalty box? And what % resulted in a Fulham goal?

There’s your ‘success’ bollocks.

Edited 23 December, 2024 by LGTL

[notnowcato]

Not a great game to watch.  Bloody relieved to have Ramsdale back, that reaction save was up there with the best.  The back 3 looks one to persist with, Nathan Wood's one of the few positives in recent weeks.  The rest was pretty meh.  We worked hard for the point, deserved it too.  

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

26% pass success for Ramsdale if we’re being factual. 

Rather that than fannying around with the ball near our penalty area and conceding stupid goals for fun.

[Brumsaint]

My takeaways from watching us in the two games post Martin compared to the rest of the season so far are that keeping possession didn't help us to create any more chances to score a goal and win, but put us in considerably more danger of conceding through sloppy play near our own box. Not groundbreaking analysis, I know, but there was no point in the risk without any reward at the other end. We just haven't been creative enough in most games to win the match when conceding as much as we did, so there was no chance of success. Yesterday, we lacked any kind of creative spark or threat going forward, but I felt fairly confident that we'd keep them out with Rambo behind the back five. Juric has a hell of a task to sort out this squad and give us any chance of getting 20 points let alone 30. I am sure we'll go down, but I am hoping for a better second half with some green shoots of recovery and not just a whimper like last time. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

So it turns out (regardless of if they keep it for 6 minutes) clearing the danger and giving the ball to the opposition in their own half, is a load less likley to result in a goal than trying to keep it and giving it to them on the edge of your own box.... funny that. 

For context, this was Fulham, a Fulham missing the likes of Perriera, Smith-Rowe and starting with a forward who's fallen into the barn door category.

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, Brumsaint said:

My takeaways from watching us in the two games post Martin compared to the rest of the season so far are that keeping possession didn't help us to create any more chances to score a goal and win, but put us in considerably more danger of conceding through sloppy play near our own box. Not groundbreaking analysis, I know, but there was no point in the risk without any reward at the other end. We just haven't been creative enough in most games to win the match when conceding as much as we did, so there was no chance of success. Yesterday, we lacked any kind of creative spark or threat going forward, but I felt fairly confident that we'd keep them out with Rambo behind the back five. Juric has a hell of a task to sort out this squad and give us any chance of getting 20 points let alone 30. I am sure we'll go down, but I am hoping for a better second half with some green shoots of recovery and not just a whimper like last time. 

Agree with much of what you say. It's not likely we'll improve dramatically overnight because the players are still ingrained to play Russball and it can't be easy to just stop doing that like turning off a switch - the thought to play out from the back will still be lurking at the back of minds. However, I'm confident Juric will get them drilled into playing his way and we'll not lump as many balls forward as we did yesterday but rather pick the times when playing out is a good option and a relatively safe one. If we mix it up it keeps the opposition guessing as opposed to Russball where we constantly got penned in around our own penalty area because he'd told the world and his wife that was what we were going to do - madness.

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

For context, this was Fulham, a Fulham missing the likes of Perriera, Smith-Rowe and starting with a forward who's fallen into the barn door category.

And, for further context, a Fulham who'd scored in every home match up to yesterday and whose manager chose to start with the forward you berate against a side, under  the guidance of an U21 manager trying something different after taking 5 points from 15 games and being everybody's whipping boys. Very good point in my book.

[lambtiss]

20 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

For context, this was Fulham, a Fulham missing the likes of Perriera, Smith-Rowe and starting with a forward who's fallen into the barn door category.

For context, we conceded 2 at home to Stoke reserves and only a goal line clearance stopped a third. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, austsaint said:

No, what I was talking about were long Ramsdale clearances initially won by a Fulham player but intercepted or regained by a Saints player high up the pitch.  

Smacking it long to the smallest players on the pitch is silly by almost any logic. I don't think deliberately giving the ball away in the opponents half worked for us last time we did it and don't think it's sensible now either. Thankfully, Ramsdale himself seem to call it out after the game because neither he, other players or the new manager will want them to do it.

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Rather that than fannying around with the ball near our penalty area and conceding stupid goals for fun.

Yes, not giving the ball away in our own area was always going to help us. 

[Doctoroncall]

2 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

Aribo just waves his arms about and goes through the motions of not getting the ball ,and tracks back about 3-4 paces of the action ,again terrible scouting and where will he fit into the setup.

Can not work Airbo out. Sometimes good, other times bad, real lack of consistency but that could be to the chop and change of partners and tactical set up 🤷

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Smacking it long to the smallest players on the pitch is silly by almost any logic. I don't think deliberately giving the ball away in the opponents half worked for us last time we did it and don't think it's sensible now either. Thankfully, Ramsdale himself seem to call it out after the game because neither he, other players or the new manager will want them to do it.

 

I don't think that anyone is saying hoof ball is what we want or expect to see moving forward. Its finding a balance of sensibly clearing the danger and playing out building a phase of attack. 

Something Martin was unable to do after 18 months. 

Put it this way, sticking the ball into the stands or their half, wont directly result in 11 goals over the course of the next 18 games. 

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

I don't think that anyone is saying hoof ball is what we want or expect to see moving forward. Its finding a balance of sensibly clearing the danger and playing out building a phase of attack. 

Something Martin was unable to do after 18 months. 

Put it this way, sticking the ball into the stands or their half, wont directly result in 11 goals over the course of the next 18 games. 

I agree and that is why I said I was pleased to see Ramsdale call it out.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

For context, this was Fulham, a Fulham missing the likes of Perriera, Smith-Rowe and starting with a forward who's fallen into the barn door category.

Now close your eyes and imagine we got a point and a clean sheet away from home and Russell Martin was the manager.

[The Kraken]

12 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Now close your eyes and imagine we got a point and a clean sheet away from home and Russell Martin was the manager.

He really is taking it quite badly 😪

[lambtiss]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Smacking it long to the smallest players on the pitch is silly by almost any logic. I don't think deliberately giving the ball away in the opponents half worked for us last time we did it and don't think it's sensible now either. Thankfully, Ramsdale himself seem to call it out after the game because neither he, other players or the new manager will want them to do it.

Yes, not giving the ball away in our own area was always going to help us. 

I think we are all agreed that we are not good enough to play it around ad nauseum at the back in the Premier League. So, sending it long (occasionally) when we are being pressed is a more sensible option. So, we then need to look at employing a target man (e.g. Che Adams) to make the use of the long ball more effective, when we use it.

[Jack]

8 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

I think we are all agreed that we are not good enough to play it around ad nauseum at the back in the Premier League. So, sending it long (occasionally) when we are being pressed is a more sensible option. So, we then need to look at employing a target man (e.g. Che Adams) to make the use of the long ball more effective, when we use it.

Not quite sure why we didn’t utilise our 6’8 brick shithouse until injury time when pumping it long to Armstrong clearly isn’t the answer 

[Fabrice29]

10 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

I think we are all agreed that we are not good enough to play it around ad nauseum at the back in the Premier League. So, sending it long (occasionally) when we are being pressed is a more sensible option. So, we then need to look at employing a target man (e.g. Che Adams) to make the use of the long ball more effective, when we use it.

I wholeheartedly agree and have done so for quite a while.

On 07/11/2024 at 22:27, Fabrice29 said:

We played through the lines quite a lot against Everton and in other games, but the result of seven goals isn't because we play it out the back it's because we lack ruthless quality in the final third which we'll still lack whether we smash it long or do something in between. I'd also add our complete lack of any quality physical threat up top really doesn't help and means we have to work quite hard for chances. We could really have done with signing Delap.

I'd also point out that whilst our goals scored is worse than any other team that's mainly because most other teams are scoring a lot more goals from set pieces rather than any major difference in open play goals and again, I don't think our goals scored suddenly becomes much better if we play a different way.

Happy to be proven wrong of course and when the manager changes next week we can all believe that the likes of Armstrong etc can suddenly thrive in a different system, until kick off at least.

 

Just now, Jack said:

Not quite sure why we didn’t utilise our 6’8 brick shithouse until injury time when pumping it long to Armstrong clearly isn’t the answer 

He's not very good either is probably the simple answer.

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

.  The rest was pretty meh.  We worked hard for the point, deserved it too.  

For me the second cancels out the first. 

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

For context, this was Fulham, a Fulham missing the likes of Perriera, Smith-Rowe and starting with a forward who's fallen into the barn door category.

For extra context this is Saints who let goals in for fun

[coalman]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

For context, this was Fulham, a Fulham missing the likes of Perriera, Smith-Rowe and starting with a forward who's fallen into the barn door category.

And we didn't have Jack Stephens.

[Jack]

9 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

He's not very good either is probably the simple answer.

Maybe not, but Armstrong was dire. TP would’ve at least given their defence something to think about 

[Fabrice29]

26 minutes ago, Jack said:

Maybe not, but Armstrong was dire. TP would’ve at least given their defence something to think about 

Something different to think about maybe but not sure how concerned they would be about a guy who has yet to score for us over our top scorer last and this season. Anyway, pretty dire talking point tbf  and by far the biggest thing we need to address in January.

[OldNick]

15 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Something different to think about maybe but not sure how concerned they would be about a guy who has yet to score for us over our top scorer last and this season. Anyway, pretty dire talking point tbf  and by far the biggest thing we need to address in January.

Would help if he had a run of games not last few minute snippets. When we played Liverpool he gave them one of their hardest games of the season and bullied VVD and Konate. Give him 5 full games to prove one way or another, AA has had at least 12 and scored a rebound off a penalty, he may have got another but not sure

[derry]

Personally I can see that Onuachu hasn't been successful with us. However I can also see that we have never tried to make him a focal point and given him any worthwhile service. Personally I think we have the most useless bunch of crossers anywhere just chucking the ball into the box and hoping. Our corners and free kicks are nothing short of incompetent. Fraser and Dibling are the only players that try and target an attacker.

Onuachu has a terrific record except with us and that has been down to being shoehorned in and  made to fit in rather than being used sensibly. If he is expected to be a rotational pressing presence in midfield as a centre forward then we are wasting his and our time playing him. Give him the service he needs and put a predatory player alongside him then see what he can achieve. I'm wondering if Onuachu and BBD  (who incidentally we have also grossly misused playing wide) up the middle might give us a stronger presence. Archer and Armstrong are different sorts of players and don't win much if anything up front. Archer needs sponfeeding and provides no physical threat and may be better suited to wide left in the last half hour. 

[notnowcato]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Now close your eyes and imagine we got a point and a clean sheet away from home and Russell Martin was the manager.

Have a day off, DMan was going off like it was some great escape miracle on the river Thames. 

[trousers]

50 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Have a day off, DMan was going off like it was some great escape miracle on the river Thames. 

#textbook

[Tom57]

I think Rusk saw what we did against Arsenal in the first half and said 'If I can't win a game I can at least draw one'. The fact there was no attacking presence was almost on purpose I think, with even our central striker in Armstrong being expected to be more defensive than attack minded. Incidentally, I think that may be why he wasn't taken off earlier for Onuachu; Armstrong was at least chasing back and helping out, while Onuachu wouldn't have tracked back at all or if he did he wouldn't have been as mobile at closing down. This obviously isn't how we can play forever, but at least we have something to work with now. I'll be very interested to see how we set up on Boxing Day.

I think to stay up we'd need about 30 more points from the remaining 21 games, which over a 38 game season would equal about 54 points. That'd get you about 10th, so midtable form would be necessary for the rest of the season. I won't get my hopes up, but if Juric is as good as some say he is at getting results from limited squads, we could be ok. We could also finish on 10 points and take the record from Derby, you never know! 😅

[Convict Colony]

 

[coalman]

5 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

 

He looks like he's quite enjoying himself already.

[derry]

He is what we need. Aggressive and going to give it his best shot. It would be unique to see him pull it off and would be probably our greatest achievement however unlikely. If he gives the players a lift we could run it close.

[saintant]

3 hours ago, derry said:

Personally I can see that Onuachu hasn't been successful with us. However I can also see that we have never tried to make him a focal point and given him any worthwhile service. Personally I think we have the most useless bunch of crossers anywhere just chucking the ball into the box and hoping. Our corners and free kicks are nothing short of incompetent. Fraser and Dibling are the only players that try and target an attacker.

Onuachu has a terrific record except with us and that has been down to being shoehorned in and  made to fit in rather than being used sensibly. If he is expected to be a rotational pressing presence in midfield as a centre forward then we are wasting his and our time playing him. Give him the service he needs and put a predatory player alongside him then see what he can achieve. I'm wondering if Onuachu and BBD  (who incidentally we have also grossly misused playing wide) up the middle might give us a stronger presence. Archer and Armstrong are different sorts of players and don't win much if anything up front. Archer needs sponfeeding and provides no physical threat and may be better suited to wide left in the last half hour. 

Agree, we are crying out for some real physicality up front. As you say BBD has been poor but he's more of a battering ram through the centre than someone you put out wide expecting him to play like prime Thierry Henry.

[SaintsFan86]

28 minutes ago, saintant said:

Agree, we are crying out for some real physicality up front. As you say BBD has been poor but he's more of a battering ram through the centre than someone you put out wide expecting him to play like prime Thierry Henry.

If only BBD was a decent footballer.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, SaintsFan86 said:

If only BBD was a decent footballer.

Or a decent battering ram

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Or a decent battering ram

The 'battering ram' scored 6 goals in 14 Premier league games for a very poor Sheff Utd team - averaged over a season that's a highly respectable 16 goals. Of course, no guarantee he'd have maintained that average for a full season but, never-the-less, some proof that he can score goals at this level however you describe his style of play.

[davefizzy14]

Ramsdale's save in the second half yesterday was world class 😊 

[Crab Lungs]

I know people might think I’m mental but I really, really enjoyed watching that.

It felt like football again.

[notnowcato]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

The 'battering ram' scored 6 goals in 14 Premier league games for a very poor Sheff Utd team - averaged over a season that's a highly respectable 16 goals. Of course, no guarantee he'd have maintained that average for a full season but, never-the-less, some proof that he can score goals at this level however you describe his style of play.

I didn’t watch any of the matches BBD played for Sheff Utd. Having sat though far too many minutes of him playing for us I haven’t got a fucking clue how he managed to score 6 goals for Utd. 

[WALK DMC]

17 hours ago, derry said:

Personally I can see that Onuachu hasn't been successful with us. However I can also see that we have never tried to make him a focal point and given him any worthwhile service. Personally I think we have the most useless bunch of crossers anywhere just chucking the ball into the box and hoping. Our corners and free kicks are nothing short of incompetent. Fraser and Dibling are the only players that try and target an attacker.

Onuachu has a terrific record except with us and that has been down to being shoehorned in and  made to fit in rather than being used sensibly. If he is expected to be a rotational pressing presence in midfield as a centre forward then we are wasting his and our time playing him. Give him the service he needs and put a predatory player alongside him then see what he can achieve. I'm wondering if Onuachu and BBD  (who incidentally we have also grossly misused playing wide) up the middle might give us a stronger presence. Archer and Armstrong are different sorts of players and don't win much if anything up front. Archer needs sponfeeding and provides no physical threat and may be better suited to wide left in the last half hour. 

Totally agree with your message, although I think that Sugawara has a really decent cross on him and certainly has the ability to pick out a player (see goal v Everton as a good example). However, while Sugawara has made a few mistakes, he also hasn't had a consistent run in the team where we play to his strengths either. 

[Osvaldorama]

4 hours ago, Crab Lungs said:

I know people might think I’m mental but I really, really enjoyed watching that.

It felt like football again.

You’re not mental. 
 

It was soooo refreshing to see us actually defend and not concede ridiculous goals. 
 

In just 2 games, a manager with no experience has shown how fucking stupid Russell Martin is. 
 

Absolutely ludicrous he lasted so long. Soooo happy he’s gone, whatever happens next. 
 

[Pamplemousse]

4 hours ago, Crab Lungs said:

I know people might think I’m mental but I really, really enjoyed watching that.

It felt like football again.

Just thinking back, I realised after the game that at no point during the added time did I have the usual sense of dread that we'd concede. It was refreshing actually.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I didn’t watch any of the matches BBD played for Sheff Utd. Having sat though far too many minutes of him playing for us I haven’t got a fucking clue how he managed to score 6 goals for Utd. 

Here’s a thought. Perhaps their manager was better. 

[Oldandtired]

2 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

However, while Sugawara has made a few mistakes, he also hasn't had a consistent run in the team where we play to his strengths either. 

He’s not alone there. Too many of those under the Martin shit show.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Here’s a thought. Perhaps their manager was better. 

Maybe.  Either way he’s looked fucking dreadful for us and probably not all of that is on the manager.