Lack of fitness

[LeG]

Guarantee that it's the first thing the new manager will mention. It's been pass pass pass for so long. No running. Training must have been literally a walk in the park. You can see tonight how much fitter Liverpool are.

And then there's a one man press where the surrounding players stand and watch...

[notnowcato]

Fitness has fuck all to do with tonight’s poor first half. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

We’ve looked unfit and off the pace all season. Just look at them all blowing.

[LeG]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fitness has fuck all to do with tonight’s poor first half. 

It has a lot to do with it. But there are also a lot of other things! Shambles.

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fitness has fuck all to do with tonight’s poor first half. 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, LeG said:

It has a lot to do with it. But there are also a lot of other things! Shambles.

Yep, it will take a while to sort out the mentality 

[Matthew Le God]

9 minutes ago, LeG said:

Guarantee that it's the first thing the new manager will mention. It's been pass pass pass for so long. No running. Training must have been literally a walk in the park. You can see tonight how much fitter Liverpool are.

And then there's a one man press where the surrounding players stand and watch...

The lack of intense pressing in a low block is a tactical decision not a fitness issue. That is on Rusk, not the players.

Edited 18 December, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[CB Fry]

6 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fitness has fuck all to do with tonight’s poor first half. 

Bwing back Wussell Martin 😪😪😪💔💔💔💔

[Football Special]

Do we have any proper fitness / conditioning coaches at the  club? 

Definitely needed to improve as don't look fit enough 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

The lack of intense pressing in a low block is a tactical decision not a fitness issue. That is on Rusk, not the players.

Doesn't mean there aren't fitness issues and most seem to think there are.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Doesn't mean there aren't fitness issues and most seem to think there are.

There are clearly fitness issues

[Chez]

whenever we are shit, the `players are unfit' reasoning comes out. 

We might be, but I don't recall anyone mentioning it last season when we were winning.

I would say that we tend to look tired late on because players have worked extra hard to make up for their shit touches, poor positioning, losing the ball etc..

 

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

The lack of intense pressing in a low block is a tactical decision not a fitness issue. That is on Rusk, not the players.

The second half showed it was tactical. They were instructed to press as a unit higher up the pitch.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

whenever we are shit, the `players are unfit' reasoning comes out. 

We might be, but I don't recall anyone mentioning it last season when we were winning.

One would venture there's a different level of fitness required in the premier league compared to the championship, especially when we could get away with strolling around for most of the game in the latter due our relatively superior quality of players in that division....

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

whenever we are shit, the `players are unfit' reasoning comes out. 

We might be, but I don't recall anyone mentioning it last season when we were winning.

I would say that we tend to look tired late on because players have worked extra hard to make up for their shit touches, poor positioning, losing the ball etc..

 

Compare our fitness to say Bournemouth's - we're way below their standards and there is no excuse for it. Watch how quickly Bmuff win the ball back after losing it. We've been physically trained to play Russball most of which is at walking place - in the Premier league you have to be able to compete at the high tempo the game is played at or, as we've found out, you'll be cannon fodder.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The second half showed it was tactical. They were instructed to press as a unit higher up the pitch.

That may be so but, regardless, do you think our players could be fitter than they are or do you think they are already at the peak of their fitness potential? 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

One would venture there's a different level of fitness required in the premier league compared to the championship, especially when we could get away with strolling around for most of the game in the latter due our relatively superior quality of players in that division....

Amen to that.

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

One would venture there's a different level of fitness required in the premier league compared to the championship, especially when we could get away with strolling around for most of the game in the latter due our relatively superior quality of players in that division....

The game is much quicker in the PL I observed as a difference between Champ football last season and this where dwelling or bad positioning often costs a goal, let alone the unforced errors using the ball in high risk/low reward areas. Last year we got a lot of late goals, especially Fraser coming on, but this year we are far more likely to concede them. 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The second half showed it was tactical. They were instructed to press as a unit higher up the pitch.

Good, pity that didn’t start with the Forest home game. I’m not saying Rusk is the long-term solution but he could read the situation of the match and adapt. That’s one up on anything Martin did this season.

[notnowcato]

9 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Good, pity that didn’t start with the Forest home game. I’m not saying Rusk is the long-term solution but he could read the situation of the match and adapt. That’s one up on anything Martin did this season.

We had a much better game in the league against them, against a much stronger line up but other than that you’re spot on

[notnowcato]

11 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Bwing back Wussell Martin 😪😪😪💔💔💔💔

Play the ball 🙄

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

We had a much better game in the league against them, against a much stronger line up but other than that you’re spot on

And still committed two absolute howlers trying to play out from the back in the way Russell loves costing us three points. 

[Roo1976]

been thinking on this,they are as fit as they need to be,because they don't go over the halfway line......

[notnowcato]

8 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

And still committed two absolute howlers trying to play out from the back in the way Russell loves costing us three points. 

We were comfortably beaten by Liverpool reserves last night whilst launching it from the back. 
 

Too much has been placed on style or philosophy, there’s only so much any manager can do when dealing with a significant gap in quality of the squad. 

[saintant]

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

We were comfortably beaten by Liverpool reserves last night whilst launching it from the back. 
 

Too much has been placed on style or philosophy, there’s only so much any manager can do when dealing with a significant gap in quality of the squad. 

There were a fair few players in their starting line up who'd be pretty offended at being described as Liverpool reserves.

[Harry_SFC]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

There were a fair few players in their starting line up who'd be pretty offended at being described as Liverpool reserves.

Indeed.

TAA, Kelleher, Nunez, Gakpo, Elliott, Gomez, Macallister, Jota. 

All are/have been regular first team players. It clearly wasn't their strongest line up but the side they put out was still very good. 

[notnowcato]

7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Indeed.

TAA, Kelleher, Nunez, Gakpo, Elliott, Gomez, Macallister, Jota. 

All are/have been regular first team players. It clearly wasn't their strongest line up but the side they put out was still very good. 

Not as strong as the lineup in the league match. 

[notnowcato]

Is there any data to back up this perceived lack of fitness? I’m sure after a half dozen games or so I read that Flynn was in the top 3 for distance covered. 

[OttawaSaint]

7 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Play the ball 🙄

VAR are taking a look.

[Toussaint]

The lack of fitness and conditioning became apparent in the second half today it seemed, they were totally unable to continue the impressive intensity of the first half.

[whelk]

15 hours ago, Toussaint said:

The lack of fitness and conditioning became apparent in the second half today it seemed, they were totally unable to continue the impressive intensity of the first half.

They were drained as the poor lambs had been forced to work on Christmas Day. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

They were drained as the poor lambs had been forced to work on Christmas Day. 

Incredible they were due to have Xmas Day off. Everyone knows in the football industry in that top five divisions in England/Scotland and the more ambitious ones in the sixth that Xmas day is a work day preparing for the Boxing Day fixtures.

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Incredible they were due to have Xmas Day off. Everyone knows in the football industry in that top five divisions in England/Scotland and the more ambitious ones in the sixth that Xmas day is a work day preparing for the Boxing Day fixtures.

My daughter has been married to a bloke 2 years, he’s played in NL South & NL during that time. He’s trained both Xmas days they’ve been together. 2 different teams, 2 different levels (both way below Premier league) and they’ve trained. Absolutely unbelievable that ours were given day off, a damning indictment of the previous manager 

[Turkish]

I remember when Strachan came in following a debacle of a start to the season where i think we'd won two of our first 8 games (incredible form compared to now) and the first thing he did was transform their fitness. Relegation looked certain when he came in, we had a really limited squad, Paul jones wasnt a great keeper, Dean Richards has left and been replaced by Paul Williams, he also brought in Paul Telfer. Our record signing Rory Delap didn't exactly set the world on fire either and of course our other big money signing during the season Augustin Delgado arrived with an injury and only played twice (sounds familiar) 

If took a few weeks but he turned them from a shambles into a really fit, organised, well drilled team, i think after new year we only lost 4 or 5 games and finished 11th well clear of relegation. I dont think we've got any chance of staying up this year but it just goes to show what can be achieved by a fit, hard working, solid team even if the players aren't that great. 

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

My daughter has been married to a bloke 2 years, he’s played in NL South & NL during that time. He’s trained both Xmas days they’ve been together. 2 different teams, 2 different levels (both way below Premier league) and they’ve trained. Absolutely unbelievable that ours were given day off, a damning indictment of the previous manager 

Does he play in a team full of son-in-laws?

[Lighthouse]

30 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I remember when Strachan came in following a debacle of a start to the season where i think we'd won two of our first 8 games (incredible form compared to now) and the first thing he did was transform their fitness. Relegation looked certain when he came in, we had a really limited squad, Paul jones wasnt a great keeper, Dean Richards has left and been replaced by Paul Williams, he also brought in Paul Telfer. Our record signing Rory Delap didn't exactly set the world on fire either and of course our other big money signing during the season Augustin Delgado arrived with an injury and only played twice (sounds familiar) 

If took a few weeks but he turned them from a shambles into a really fit, organised, well drilled team, i think after new year we only lost 4 or 5 games and finished 11th well clear of relegation. I dont think we've got any chance of staying up this year but it just goes to show what can be achieved by a fit, hard working, solid team even if the players aren't that great. 

‘Aren’t that great’ included Beattie, Oakley, Lundekvam, Anders, Pahars, Bridge, Dodd and Marsden. They’d all walk into our side now, in fact I think WGS would only have Ramsdale, THB and Fernandes.

[Turkish]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

‘Aren’t that great’ included Beattie, Oakley, Lundekvam, Anders, Pahars, Bridge, Dodd and Marsden. They’d all walk into our side now, in fact I think WGS would only have Ramsdale, THB and Fernandes.

Oakley, Lundekvam, Dodd and Marsden were all pretty average players. Marsden had played pretty much his whole career in the championship or league one until Dave Jones signed him when he was 30. The other 3 were all good club players but hardly great were they.

Pahars, Beattie and Bridge were obviously good, Svensson had great ability but was largely underwhelming for Saints. 

I know you're trying to make the point that the squad then was much better therefore it cant be anything to do with your boy, but there was a reason most of those players struggled in and around the relegation zone under Gray and Jones, yet finished midtable under Hoddle and Strachan. Of course it's got nothing to do with the managers ability to get them to play as a team has it.

[John Boy Saint]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I remember when Strachan came in following a debacle of a start to the season where i think we'd won two of our first 8 games (incredible form compared to now) and the first thing he did was transform their fitness. Relegation looked certain when he came in, we had a really limited squad, Paul jones wasnt a great keeper, Dean Richards has left and been replaced by Paul Williams, he also brought in Paul Telfer. Our record signing Rory Delap didn't exactly set the world on fire either and of course our other big money signing during the season Augustin Delgado arrived with an injury and only played twice (sounds familiar) 

If took a few weeks but he turned them from a shambles into a really fit, organised, well drilled team, i think after new year we only lost 4 or 5 games and finished 11th well clear of relegation. I dont think we've got any chance of staying up this year but it just goes to show what can be achieved by a fit, hard working, solid team even if the players aren't that great. 

Strachan had them super fit - last 10 minutes of games were great because they were conditioned to go 120 minutes. Paul Telfer most folks figure of derision if they knew buggerall about football, he was key to the fitness regime as Strachan knew what ever he asked of the players for match conditioning he knew Telfer would smash it and the other players would have no complaints about it being too hard. Some of pre season training was done on the sandy beaches (resistance) up near Edinburgh- last man across the line was thrown into the North Sea: Telfer won every race. 
 

As noted last season, at the end of the Coventry game where they threw the kitchen sink at us, our players were mostly out on their feet - whereas the intensity of Coventry should have seen their players broken in defeat sprawled on the pitch after so much fruitless effort. Boxing Day afternoon you could see us second half getting gappy - and that’s down to substandard fitness.

 

[Lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Oakley, Lundekvam, Dodd and Marsden were all pretty average players. Marsden had played pretty much his whole career in the championship or league one until Dave Jones signed him when he was 30. The other 3 were all good club players but hardly great were they.

Pahars, Beattie and Bridge were obviously good, Svensson had great ability but was largely underwhelming for Saints. 

I know you're trying to make the point that the squad then was much better therefore it cant be anything to do with your boy, but there was a reason most of those players struggled in and around the relegation zone under Gray and Jones, yet finished midtable under Hoddle and Strachan. Of course it's got nothing to do with the managers ability to get them to play as a team has it.

You know what, I fully agree with that first sentence, those four are definitely what I would call ‘average’ PL players. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a team full of them now. I’m trying to make the point that the squad back then was much better because the squad back then was much better. The team Strachan took over was largely the one which had finished 15th and then 10th the preceding two seasons. We’re watching the one which finished fourth in the Championship, plus a handful of players from Swansea and Sheff Utd.

Incidentally, is there a statute of limitations on Russell bloody Martin? I’m absolutely bored senseless of every single discussion point being brought back to him.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

You know what, I fully agree with that first sentence, those four are definitely what I would call ‘average’ PL players. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a team full of them now. I’m trying to make the point that the squad back then was much better because the squad back then was much better. The team Strachan took over was largely the one which had finished 15th and then 10th the preceding two seasons. We’re watching the one which finished fourth in the Championship, plus a handful of players from Swansea and Sheff Utd.

Incidentally, is there a statute of limitations on Russell bloody Martin? I’m absolutely bored senseless of every single discussion point being brought back to him.

When Hoddle took that squad on 28th Jan 2000 it was 17th and looked doomed. We finished 15th, you might argue that's not a huge improvement but we finished 8 points above the relegation zone not in it with the same players.

The following season Hoddle left at the end of March with us in 8th place. Gray took over and with the same players didn't win a game until the 13th May. 

The following season Gray had us in the relegation zone with 2 wins in 8 and looked doomed. Strachan came in and with the same players got us to finish 11th.

Yes you're right, Strachan took over a team that had finished 15th and 10th, but it had also been in the relegation zone and only won 4 games in 18 when he arrived.

Dont you think that it might, just might, have something to do with the manager? 

Bit like now, it might just might, also have been something to do with your hero?

 

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

Strachan had them super fit - last 10 minutes of games were great because they were conditioned to go 120 minutes. Paul Telfer most folks figure of derision if they knew buggerall about football, he was key to the fitness regime as Strachan knew what ever he asked of the players for match conditioning he knew Telfer would smash it and the other players would have no complaints about it being too hard. Some of pre season training was done on the sandy beaches (resistance) up near Edinburgh- last man across the line was thrown into the North Sea: Telfer won every race. 
 

As noted last season, at the end of the Coventry game where they threw the kitchen sink at us, our players were mostly out on their feet - whereas the intensity of Coventry should have seen their players broken in defeat sprawled on the pitch after so much fruitless effort. Boxing Day afternoon you could see us second half getting gappy - and that’s down to substandard fitness.

 

Yep Telfer was a bit of a poor mans James Milner, super fit, super hard working, not the sort of player the average fan likes but one of those players every team needs. Those runs were hell, Strachan used to call them character running i think a lot of players used to end up puking.  

[Lighthouse]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

When Hoddle took that squad on 28th Jan 2000 it was 17th and looked doomed. We finished 15th, you might argue that's not a huge improvement but we finished 8 points above the relegation zone not in it with the same players.

The following season Hoddle left at the end of March with us in 8th place. Gray took over and with the same players didn't win a game until the 13th May. 

The following season Gray had us in the relegation zone with 2 wins in 8 and looked doomed. Strachan came in and with the same players got us to finish 11th.

Yes you're right, Strachan took over a team that had finished 15th and 10th, but it had also been in the relegation zone and only won 4 games in 18 when he arrived.

Dont you think that it might, just might, have something to do with the manager? 

Bit like now, it might just might, also have been something to do with your hero?

 

Hoddle and Strachan took over underperforming teams and got them performing again. I don’t feel like this squad or any of the players in it are underperforming. This is as good as any of them have been in their career. They’re just sh*t.

Im sorry, I can’t find a way to link this opinion to my ‘hero’, it’s kind of a stand alone thing.

[Turkish]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Hoddle and Strachan took over underperforming teams and got them performing again. I don’t feel like this squad or any of the players in it are underperforming. This is as good as any of them have been in their career. They’re just sh*t.

Im sorry, I can’t find a way to link this opinion to my ‘hero’, it’s kind of a stand alone thing.

If Ivan get to the 36th game and we're on less than 12th points i'll agree with you that your boy had a shit team performing at their absolute maximum.

[Hamwic]

There was a story around Strachans pre-season that the players had T shirts printed saying that they survived it. By his own admission, he was adamant that players mental fitness depended on their physical fitness. 

[Badger]

43 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Hoddle and Strachan took over underperforming teams and got them performing again. I don’t feel like this squad or any of the players in it are underperforming. This is as good as any of them have been in their career. They’re just sh*t.

Im sorry, I can’t find a way to link this opinion to my ‘hero’, it’s kind of a stand alone thing.

What became of Dalek ?

Once upon a time he'd have been all over your post like a rash. 

[Badger]

23 minutes ago, Hamwic said:

There was a story around Strachans pre-season that the players had T shirts printed saying that they survived it. By his own admission, he was adamant that players mental fitness depended on their physical fitness. 

Agree about WGS, he'd have sorted the 'slackers' out. 

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Does he play in a team full of son-in-laws?

I thought he might have told him he has training to get out of the in-law visit

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

‘Aren’t that great’ included Beattie, Oakley, Lundekvam, Anders, Pahars, Bridge, Dodd and Marsden. They’d all walk into our side now, in fact I think WGS would only have Ramsdale, THB and Fernandes.

To be hones, Brett Ormerod would probably walk into our side right now.

[Doctoroncall]

1 hour ago, Hamwic said:

There was a story around Strachans pre-season that the players had T shirts printed saying that they survived it. By his own admission, he was adamant that players mental fitness depended on their physical fitness. 

That’s been well established and not just for athletes. 

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Incidentally, is there a statute of limitations on Russell bloody Martin? I’m absolutely bored senseless of every single discussion point being brought back to him.

He has left so much scar tissue that we shall be talking about him for years.