Saints 1-2 Liverpool - Match Thread

[Fabrice29]

Pretty sure Downes injured himself after 20 minutes when taking out Morton off the ball. Was limping from that point onwards.

[Sheaf Saint]

10 hours ago, Chez said:

Ref had a terrible view of it. Couldnt see the arm across him. Pity.

If he couldn't see the defender's arm all over Fernandes, it begs the question: where on Earth did he think his arm was?

[notnowcato]

Really poor first half, more urgency in the second. The gulf in quality between our first team and the mickeys reserve team says all you need to know. 
 

[Graffito]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

If he couldn't see the defender's arm all over Fernandes, it begs the question: where on Earth did he think his arm was?

For somebody who couldn’t see the arm across Fernandes, the referee seemed pretty certain it wasn’t a foul. Take a look at his theatrical reaction to the claim. If he didn’t see it he couldn’t be so certain there was no foul. If he did see it then he must have thought it was not enough to give a foul and send the bloke off. He got it badly wrong. Then there’s the assistant. What’s the point of him if he won’t assist the referee in making the right the call.

[skintsaint]

8 hours ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Sugawara can really cross it, it beggars belief we weren't trying to get him to fire some in before.

Crazy isn't it, if you watch his highlight reel from his last season in Holland it was his major strength!

[Graffito]

With hindsight, could argue that Saints might have done first half what they did second half and played more aggressively further up the pitch. That was a makeshift Liverpool defence with a couple of kids in midfield. 

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Really poor first half, more urgency in the second. The gulf in quality between our first team and the mickeys reserve team says all you need to know. 
 

That we're not good enough to win the title..? #insightful

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

That we're not good enough to win the title..? #insightful

Reserve team, trousers, read it again 😉🙄

[Mixedkebab]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

Yeah, thought he was one of our better players tonight and put a shift in.

Keeps slowing play down though. And any bearded, sleeve tattoo chum boy of RM should be under suspicion from now on.

Edited Thursday at 08:56 by Mixedkebab

[trousers]

19 minutes ago, Graffito said:

With hindsight, could argue that Saints might have done first half what they did second half and played more aggressively further up the pitch

I doubt we'd have been able to maintain that intensity for a full game. Probably the right tactics in retrospect.... Try and contain them in the first half (which we weren't a million miles away from achieving) and then go for it in the second half.

[gecko]

Terrible decision at the end, but I for one am glad that the argument is over a guy and his linesman, who saw it once at full speed and made an incorrect decision. 

We all know that if VAR was in use, they'd have watched that 18 times and still concluded it wasn't a "clear and obvious error" - and stuck with no foul anyway. We'd still be arguing about getting shafted anyway.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Reserve team, trousers, read it again 😉🙄

Yes, I know, but I would venture Liverpool could put that team out week in week out and still beat most teams out of the top 6 on a regular basis... I think that tells you more about them than us IMHO 

Edited Thursday at 08:57 by trousers

[notnowcato]

Just now, trousers said:

Yes, I know, but I would venture Liverpool could put that team out week in week out and still beat most teams out of the top 6 on a regular basis... 

Well now you’ve just made something up to counter an objective observation 😉🙄

[lambtiss]

22 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Crazy isn't it, if you watch his highlight reel from his last season in Holland it was his major strength!

That is on RM always wanting to recycle possession until the perfect opportunity arises. 

The other problem under RM is that there was little point crossing the ball as the build up was so laborious that there would be 8 defenders in the box defending Cameron Archer. 

The question then becomes why recruit a player with skills that don't fit the style of play? 

 

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Well now you’ve just made something up to counter an objective observation 😉🙄

I thought making up stuff was mandatory on the Saintsweb forum...

Just keep that "told you so" card in your handbag a wee while longer.... 🙂

[Umlaut]

2 hours ago, The Left Back said:

Apologies if this has been covered already but who knew we had 3 long throwers? Sugawara, Manning and THB all unleashed an Exocet into the mixer. 

Surprised me as well. I was on the edge of my seat this game for the first time in forever.

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

Having slept on it and now re-watched the incident I'm content that the referee got it right not to give a foul / red card. Correct decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously that is absolute fucking bullshit.

[kitch]

That was encouraging. 1st half was a mess, but that's understandable given the circumstances.

2nd half was the first bit of football I've really enjoyed this season. Genuinely thought there was a chance we could score, and the players were all trying. Thought Matty F was brilliant, and good shows from Archer and also Suga when he came on.
Decision not to give foul on Matty at the end suggests ref might be a Koppite to me, but otherwise I'll take it. As lovely as a cup run would have been, we've got more pressing issues to be dealing with. Would have been nice, but it's not season-defining to be out now.

There's a faint pulse, that's what the second half showed me. This team should easily have had more points on the board if they were allowed to play.

Edited Thursday at 09:31 by kitch

[Greenridge]

11 hours ago, Chez said:

Ref had a terrible view of it. Couldnt see the arm across him. Pity.

Because he is so fat he couldn't keep up with play.

 

(apologies in advance to anyone with a BMI >25 who may take offence)

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Graffito said:

For somebody who couldn’t see the arm across Fernandes, the referee seemed pretty certain it wasn’t a foul. Take a look at his theatrical reaction to the claim. If he didn’t see it he couldn’t be so certain there was no foul. If he did see it then he must have thought it was not enough to give a foul and send the bloke off. He got it badly wrong. Then there’s the assistant. What’s the point of him if he won’t assist the referee in making the right the call.

More than that he was waving it away immediately before the interaction had even ended. 

[saintant]

9 hours ago, Dragon_man said:

Most enjoyable game of the season. Good to see excitment back at St Mary's.

Sure we were pants at times and some poor individual moments and sub par performances, but I saw some spirit and belief. There's now Russ scar tissue to deal with, a few times the players looked as though they wanted to go forward or be more positive and little Russ on their shoulder dragged them back.

Still don't see a way to stay up, but be good to get some real football and excitment back at St Mary's.

Tall Paul - want to love him so much and he has great moments, but need to see some finishing.

BBD - what were our scouts smoking?

 

 

Lots of fans pointing out that we do not look fit - BBD is one of the worst offenders and looks to be carrying too much timber. Again, this was a fault of the coaches in pre-season.

[coalman]

54 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Well now you’ve just made something up to counter an objective observation 😉🙄

It was stated as an opinion rather than fact. As someone who has been prepared to state differing opinions based on watching the Russell Martin juggernaut I would have thought you'd be ok with this.

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, Greenridge said:

Because he is so fat he couldn't keep up with play.

 

(apologies in advance to anyone with a BMI >25 who may take offence)

Good point but as someone else said, he made a very theatrical gesture to indicate no foul had been committed which shows he saw it very clearly.

[warsash saint]

What's the big deal with the Fernandez 'foul'?? Would have only been a free kick outside the box which we'd have no doubt missed & the scouser would have been sent off meaning they would have been down to 10 for only 5 mins.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, warsash saint said:

What's the big deal with the Fernandez 'foul'?? Would have only been a free kick outside the box which we'd have no doubt missed & the scouser would have been sent off meaning they would have been down to 10 for only 5 mins.

But if he hadn't fouled him Fernandes was clean through on goal with an unimpeded shot on goal on his favoured foot within the box. He denied a goalscoring opportunity, he should be sent off, it's the rules. The anger is towards the obvious big club bias. 

[LuckyNumber7]

Some people are so desperate to hate on Martin. That first half was as bad and as dull as anything we've seen this season. We offered nothing in attack up until Archer's goal.

After that we at least had a bit of a go and could have found an equaliser. Can't question the players for their effort but we are so short of quality at the top end of the pitch.

[notnowcato]

19 minutes ago, coalman said:

It was stated as an opinion rather than fact. As someone who has been prepared to state differing opinions based on watching the Russell Martin juggernaut I would have thought you'd be ok with this.

Everyone has had opinions on the last 18 months. So what? My objective point still stands. It was a second XI selected by Liverpool last night. 

[suewhistle]

It seemed to me that the first half was all about containment - not surprisingly given recent circumstances - but the second half we had more aggression and were playing with greater freedom. Sugawara's crossing has been noted, and he also went past his man on the outside instead of constantly checking back, we used some long throws to effect which we haven't before this season. Archer's goal was a quality finish so let's hope we can see more of those, and perhaps a few decisions in our favour, including the times that Dibling is obviously singled out for rough treatment.

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Some people are so desperate to hate on Martin. That first half was as bad and as dull as anything we've seen this season. We offered nothing in attack up until Archer's goal.

After that we at least had a bit of a go and could have found an equaliser. Can't question the players for their effort but we are so short of quality at the top end of the pitch.

The ironic cheers of the ball being launched from the back was embarrassing. 
 

Archer’s goal was really well taken but it’s not as though our play up to that point suggested we were going to score or “deserved” to be a goal to the good. 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Some people are so desperate to hate on Martin. That first half was as bad and as dull as anything we've seen this season. We offered nothing in attack up until Archer's goal.

After that we at least had a bit of a go and could have found an equaliser. Can't question the players for their effort but we are so short of quality at the top end of the pitch.

the plan was obvious. keep it tight and stay in the game, try and catch them on the break first half which we almost did first half. That's quite different to Martins suicide football, lets also not forget the coach only had one day to work with the team not 18 months. Im amazed some people are still defending Martin

[saintant]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Everyone has had opinions on the last 18 months. So what? My objective point still stands. It was a second XI selected by Liverpool last night. 

It wasn't a second XI per se - Alexander Arnold, Gakpo, Nunes, MacAllister, Kelleher and Elliott have been regular first teamers which is over 50% of their starting team.

[coalman]

6 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Everyone has had opinions on the last 18 months. So what? My objective point still stands. It was a second XI selected by Liverpool last night. 

If you want you people to take you seriously maybe show curiosity as to why they hold their opinion rather than dismissing it out of hand. Liverpool have far more resources than Saints - that's a fact. How deep their squad goes is a matter of opinion. If we're only allowed to use objective facts then maybe go back through your last few months posting in support of Russell Martin and maybe start writing some apologies for being a hypocrite.

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

It wasn't a second XI per se - Alexander Arnold, Gakpo, Nunes, MacAllister, Kelleher and Elliott have been regular first teamers which is over 50% of their starting team.

Trent and Mac Allister I’ll give you but the rest are not starters when others are available:
Luis Diaz > Gakpo, Allison > Kelleher, Djoto > Shit Andy Carroll, Salah > Elliot

[LuckyNumber7]

8 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The ironic cheers of the ball being launched from the back was embarrassing. 
 

Archer’s goal was really well taken but it’s not as though our play up to that point suggested we were going to score or “deserved” to be a goal to the good. 

Yep, basically cheering at us gifting them possession time and time again.

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

the plan was obvious. keep it tight and stay in the game, try and catch them on the break first half which we almost did first half. That's quite different to Martins suicide football, lets also not forget the coach only had one day to work with the team not 18 months. Im amazed some people are still defending Martin

I'm not defending him as such, he had to go. But if it was Russ overseeing that performance up to Archer's goal, he'd have been slated on here.

[notnowcato]

2 minutes ago, coalman said:

If you want you people to take you seriously maybe show curiosity as to why they hold their opinion rather than dismissing it out of hand. Liverpool have far more resources than Saints - that's a fact. How deep their squad goes is a matter of opinion. If we're only allowed to use objective facts then maybe go back through your last few months posting in support of Russell Martin and maybe start writing some apologies for being a hypocrite.

Fuck me, fact > fiction. You do see the argument here, right?

Maybe you could do a trousers and review my last few months of posts. I’m a fan of possession based football, that is not a unique philosophy adopted by Martin. 

[pingpong]

9 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Yep, basically cheering at us gifting them possession time and time again.

I'm not defending him as such, he had to go. But if it was Russ overseeing that performance up to Archer's goal, he'd have been slated on here.

We gave them possession 60yards from goal, that's an improvement on 20-30 yards, and gave us a chance to stay in the game for longer. At least this way the opponent has to be able to break us down to score and do something with the ball.  Against the likes of palace and Fulham, they will find it harder and we might actually sneak some points.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

11 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Trent and Mac Allister I’ll give you but the rest are not starters when others are available:
Luis Diaz > Gakpo, Allison > Kelleher, Djoto > Shit Andy Carroll, Salah > Elliot

Think the point is, those players you listed above would get into most starting eleven's outside the top 6 or 8. Even a Liverpool second eleven would beat most of the bottom half of the PL.

[gecko]

9 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Yep, basically cheering at us gifting them possession time and time again.

Not going to argue against the point, felt like there were more long balls last night, and they did (from recollection) generally just end up giving it back to the opposition.

However, I never felt quite so on edge last night as I have done in all of Martins games. Like the pressure on our defence was a bit more "normal" as would be expected when any team plays against the Liverpool press, as opposed to our back four slinging it around at the back indefinitely until we've tied ourselves in knots and one of them cocks it up.

Maybe it was just me, or that I simply wasn't paying enough attention to the game (also true)

[coalman]

16 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fuck me, fact > fiction. You do see the argument here, right?

Maybe you could do a trousers and review my last few months of posts. I’m a fan of possession based football, that is not a unique philosophy adopted by Martin. 

No need to get angry mate. It's just people talking on the internet.

[East Kent Saint]

After the last match this was encouraging , may be a false dawn but at least it gives a bit of hope !

[notnowcato]

33 minutes ago, coalman said:

No need to get angry mate. It's just people talking on the internet.

Well you did call me a hypocrite, think I’m within my rights to be a pissed off with that. 

[Totton Saint]

1 hour ago, kitch said:

That was encouraging. 1st half was a mess, but that's understandable given the circumstances.

2nd half was the first bit of football I've really enjoyed this season. Genuinely thought there was a chance we could score, and the players were all trying. Thought Matty F was brilliant, and good shows from Archer and also Suga when he came on.
Decision not to give foul on Matty at the end suggests ref might be a Koppite to me, but otherwise I'll take it. As lovely as a cup run would have been, we've got more pressing issues to be dealing with. Would have been nice, but it's not season-defining to be out now.

There's a faint pulse, that's what the second half showed me. This team should easily have had more points on the board if they were allowed to play.

I totally agree with last sentence. RM also forbid long show ins.

[Maggie May]

We lost.

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

The ironic cheers of the ball being launched from the back was embarrassing. 
 

Archer’s goal was really well taken but it’s not as though our play up to that point suggested we were going to score or “deserved” to be a goal to the good. 

Nothing and I mean nothing is or was more embarrassing than the football style imposed on our team by the man you hero worshipped.

[notnowcato]

10 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Nothing and I mean nothing is or was more embarrassing than the football style imposed on our team by the man you hero worshipped.

Lol, hero worshipped… move on sweetheart 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

36 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Well you did call me a hypocrite, think I’m within my rights to be a pissed off with that. 

Am sure you have been called far worse on here than that!

[East Kent Saint]

42 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

We lost.

But there was a bit of a performance , compared with the last match , and a great Archer goal !

[Maggie May]

24 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

But there was a bit of a performance , compared with the last match , and a great Archer goal !

And still lost mate. 

[Wsaint]

1 hour ago, Maggie May said:

We lost.

Gold star

[saintant]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Trent and Mac Allister I’ll give you but the rest are not starters when others are available:
Luis Diaz > Gakpo, Allison > Kelleher, Djoto > Shit Andy Carroll, Salah > Elliot

Why are you saying Salah is better than Elliot? You do know one is a striker whereas the other is a midfielder.