Saints 1-2 Liverpool - Match Thread

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Negative result, but a lot of positives from tonight. There was a bigger picture to tonight also. An embarrassing performance and result may have put off any prospective manager's and after the first half I feared the worst. However, the second half was much improved and may have helped convince some that there is actually something to work with. I know a lot have written off this season and it is looking bleak, but isn't mathematically over yet and Hasenhuttl took over with one win in 15 and kept us up, so it isn't entirely impossible having played one game extra and any manager worth their salt may feel they can get a tune out of this side. Even so, the players showed they have fight tonight and there is a good mentality still within the side, rather than a broken one that you would expect from a side rooted to the bottom.

Regarding the play in the second half, it was nice to see us put in early crosses to try and catch the opposition defence out. Too often over the past year we've avoided this tactic and attempted to pass it through the back line. KWP's a poor crosser, but Sugawara isn't and we need to utilise that skill, which we haven't as of yet. Football is also largely about momentum and the momentum is constantly changing in a game. Too often this season I've seen us fail to take advantage of a momentum shift, we don't keep the tempo up, we kill the game with slow passing between our defence and goalkeeper and instead invite pressure unnecessarily on our defence. Tonight, when the momentum was on our side, it was good to see us keep the tempo up and take the game to Liverpool, causing them issues, specifically with the good save from Kelleher after Archer's shot, the air shot from Onuachu in the box after an early Sulemana cross and the potential red card from Quansah. Many games this season we've failed to create chances and been feeding off scraps. Tonight we created at least three good chances with Archer adding to that with his well taken goal, which he did all by himself.

If we go down, go down with performances like tonight, rather than the shit slow ball we've seen up till now.

Lots to agree with here - good post.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Roger said:

He obviously can finish if you look at his goal scoring record and he caused havoc when he’s on. But feel free to point out everything negative he does. He needs a run of games for me. 

Don’t get all uppity, he’s a funny character, sometimes he’s looks half decent other times he looks like a pub player. Either way he’s something different and he’s amusing and interesting to watch. i start praisng and defending him when he does something of note.

[Pamplemousse]

17 minutes ago, saintant said:

I wonder if Hooper would have given that as a foul if it was done to Jotta at Anfield. Hmmmmmmm.

Exactly, Liverpool got a red card in the previous match and presumably Hooper didn't want to deal with the hassle from their rabble of a fanbase. He bottled it completely.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Well I’d say just get it forward quick any which way…we’ve got players that can make it happen…just need some selection consistency so some partnerships can start to gel. I’d leave BBD and Manning back at Staplewood ready to ship ‘em out - the squad is just too bloated with mediocrity.

Manning was good again tonight 

[Roger]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Manning was good again tonight 

After 

[saintant]

Just now, Turkish said:

Manning was good again tonight 

Yeah, thought he was one of our better players tonight and put a shift in.

[hypochondriac]

I would say we have an absolutely tiny chance of survival but one big positive is if it really has been the system stifling us, the potential is there to get a lot better. It's not as if we were performing to our maximum and the players just weren't up to it. 

[do i not like fizzy pop]

No interview with Rusk after the game? Thought it was a contractual obligation that both managers had to speak to the media?

Sky will be pleased it gave them chance to shove their tongue up Slot's arse. 

[Charlie Wayman]

11 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Much better than that boring tippy tappy shit.

Bellis was very good.

He should be made captain but probably won't be here for much longer

[CanadaSaint]

Archer's moment of directness and positivity, so alien in Martin's approach, seemed to inspire others to adopt a similar approach, and then the whole tide of the game turned. We were looking to move forward instead of sideways, and even Sulemana was working his ass off defensively but always looking for the chance to break. I think we need to get used to having Tall Paul in the side - he looks like Bambi on ice at times but he adds dimensions we really need and he's quite a handful; I wish he'd started tonight.

At times it was hard to believe that they were the same players.

Getting Ramsdale back into the team and utilizing his long, flat out-ball more frequently should blunt the opposition press and make us much more enjoyable to watch.

[Harry_SFC]

First half was way too passive but that was understandable. Second half was much better and there's signs of life in this side (with the right managerial appointment) 

[Chez]

12 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

I’m afraid to say, dibling is too much of a luxury to be starting. 
we need to be a lot tighter in midfield going forward 

he was pretty poor tonight. Looked a bit sluggish. I general though he has to start. He's quality, but if he plays we do need others that are happy to do the dirty work.

[Crab Lungs]

Though we are evidently low on confidence - at times, we played with the shackles off tonight.

And I feel a lot better for seeing that.

[Micky]

Agree with what all those above me said.  But by God BBD... what is all that about, probably the worst player I have ever seen. 

[Fabrice29]

Just now, Chez said:

he was pretty poor tonight. Looked a bit sluggish. I general though he has to start. He's quality, but if he plays we do need others that are happy to do the dirty work.

He's been playing in a team tactically set up to play to his strengths. The lads 18, so if he asked to play in a slightly different and more structured way like tonight it's going to take a while to find his fluidity. 

[saintstowin]

Very basic intensity has been lacking in most games. We dominated last season so rarely needed to fight. And seemingly we were coached to hang on to the ball (and take it relatively easy) which meant the running and hassling and aggression became secondary, if that. 

This lack of hunger has seeped into our character at a time when we desperately needed it, because quality wasn't going to win us games in the PL. Sadly the message/belief that we're better than we are has affected the way we play. Too relaxed.

But my hope is that within a few games and training sessions the fight will be coached back into us. Good response tonight.

Edited Wednesday at 22:41 by saintstowin

[Lord Duckhunter]

Refreshing to see us getting crosses in & showing some urgency when chasing the game. Far better than Legoball, and damning of him and his “process”. Proper set up and proper game management for the situation. 

Suga made a difference, good to see him getting by people and crossing the ball. Dibling off tonight, Manning did ok, but he’s one still playing with the Lego straight jacket on. Downes needs some coaching imo, and the sooner we get Ramsdale back in nets the better. Looked better without Armstrong as well. 
 

Tall Paul a mixed bag, and Archer isolated. I can’t see how we can fit Dibling and MF into the side if we want to play those 2 in the same side. Downes just isn’t good enough defensively to protect the centre halves alone, so we need to play 3 or a substandard DM like  Smallbone or even Manning in there. The new bloke may get a song out of the Chelsea lad, but we’re really poor against the ball in the midfield. 
 

We’re still shite, but we can grind out some results with that attitude and set up. There’s no doubt we’ll be better off long term abandoning the ridiculous Lego project. 

Edited Wednesday at 22:43 by Lord Duckhunter

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

he was pretty poor tonight. Looked a bit sluggish. I general though he has to start. He's quality, but if he plays we do need others that are happy to do the dirty work.

He did struggle a bit tonight. To give him some slack he cut a frustrated figure in the first half and, because we were so poor, he seemed to be trying too hard to do it all himself. If the side start playing better and with more intensity going forward I think we'll start to see the best of him. He's very young but is clearly an outstanding talent.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Though we are evidently low on confidence - at times, we played with the shackles off tonight.

And I feel a lot better for seeing that.

Let’s hope the new guy isn’t another philosopher then. Refreshing to see us playing more quick and direct. 

[Micky]

43 minutes ago, Chez said:

I guess if his powerful header had gone in - it was a good save by Kehler - then that would have been justification.

I think you'll find he was a long way off, and shouldn't have been because he was the last man in line and looking right across. 

[Chez]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

He's been playing in a team tactically set up to play to his strengths. The lads 18, so if he asked to play in a slightly different and more structured way like tonight it's going to take a while to find his fluidity. 

Not sure he was asked to play in a more structured way. He just didn't play well. 

Criticism of a top player is permitted. 

[Chris cooper]

Well well well .. 2nd half signs of life ! 
Fulham West Ham n palace games we may have some guts & fight ! 
 

tall Paul again was decent ! Held the ball up well & we had runners off of him ! 
Archer has that in his locker & now hopefully will kick on now the beard 🧔🏻 has gone !! 

merry Christmas 🎄 

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

Not sure he was asked to play in a more structured way. He just didn't play well. 

Criticism of a top player is permitted. 

He and the whole team were clearly set up to stay in the game as long as possible and only attack when the opportunity clearly presented itself, especially the first hour. No risk taking either on the ball or off it. It was absolutely a more structured set up and Dibling was the main sufferer of that because he wasn't allowed to drift into gaps where he could pick up the ball and beat men to open up the play. That's not a criticism because it's very understandable.

He also suffered because he was closely dealt with by a very physical player in Gomez in the first half. 

Edited Wednesday at 22:56 by Fabrice29

[aintforever]

Poor first half but good to see us put up a bit of a fight in the second.

That disgrace of a decision by the ref at the end shows why we need VAR. You just can’t rely on the on field officials to get enough important decisions right. VAR would have a much better view of what happened than some fat, bald cunt desperately trying to keep up with play.

[Chez]

21 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

First half was way too passive but that was understandable. Second half was much better and there's signs of life in this side (with the right managerial appointment) 

there were signs of life in the second half against Brighton. That seems an eternity ago though. Putting two halves together would be good. Looking very solid and limiting opponents to a few tough chances would be nice. It was a weak Liverpool side. Not sure I will take a huge amount of positives from the game to be honest.

[RedWillie]

Much better. Didn't expect to win but at least we turned up and showed some balls. Outrageous reffing decision at the end that was a clear foul, a clear last man and a clear red card to everyone except the twat of a ref. Fans did well 2nd half when at last we had something to cheer. OTS

[trousers]

37 minutes ago, saintant said:

Tall Paul and Sulemana look to me like two players who might have something about them but they've needed more game time which RM never gave them. Nothing to lose now - give them more minutes on the pitch and see what they can do - we're not blessed with forwards anyway.

Yep, agree, was particularly refreshing to see Sulemana given the freedom to take on players at long last. With a dash more confidence he could potentially "do a Mané" and turn an indifferent start at the club into something more rewarding....

[Galway saint]

Thought the new guy had some funny ideas such as instructing the players to get the ball into the box and even though it was another defeat it felt good to see a more direct style of play. 

The midfield still looks very powderpuff and hopefully we can bring in an experienced DM in January to give us a bit more bite in there 

 

[LiberalCommunist]

Its the hope that kills, and I think we are in for some pain. Thankfully.

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, saintstowin said:

Very basic intensity has been lacking in most games. We dominated last season so rarely needed to fight. And seemingly we were coached to hang on to the ball (and take it relatively easy) which meant the running and hassling and aggression became secondary, if that. 

This lack of hunger has seeped into our character at a time when we desperately needed it, because quality wasn't going to win us games in the PL. Sadly the message/belief that we're better than we are has affected the way we play. Too relaxed.

But my hope is that within a few games and training sessions the fight will be coached back into us. Good response tonight.

👍

 

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, agree, was particularly refreshing to see Sulemana given the freedom to take on players at long last. With a dash more confidence he could potentially "do a Mané" and turn an indifferent start at the club into something more rewarding....

They've both been here for nearly two years now. They've had 3 different managers and a handful of decent performances between them. Great if they turn into something under the next manager but lets not rewrite history as these two being hard done by.   

[davefizzy14]

I thought it was a very encouraging second half performance and we deserved to take it to penalties if it weren't for that joker of a ref. Absolutely criminal how that is not a foul on Fernandes and a red card for the defender. A textbook finish from Archer which he created himself. I was impressed with how Rusk set us up to play tonight and going forward it has given me plenty to be positive about and we can get some results and turn things around. Would like to see Onuachu and Sulemana start on Sunday. COYR 😊

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

They've both been here for nearly two years now. They've had 3 different managers and a handful of decent performances between them. Great if they turn into something under the next manager but lets not rewrite history as these two being hard done by.   

Yeah because they've both been regular starters haven't they 😁

[trousers]

 

[madge]

Just made a change to attack with some purpose and pace.. I don’t care if we lose but at least show some effort which we did in that second half. Would live to see archer and talk Paul play together and go a little more direct at times.. disappointed with downes today..  he’s positionally poor at times and can see why West Ham were happy to sell. But with a decent manager he’s still got the makings of a good player.

[SWLondon Saint]

We also look a ton better when crosses are actually getting thrown into the box. Sugawara can really cross it, it beggars belief we weren't trying to get him to fire some in before. Though on defence he still stands off far too far, thought Bree did a reasonable job on Gakpo till he went off. Someone needs to coach Suga to copy Bree's defensive positioning which is mostly solid.

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

Exactly, Liverpool got a red card in the previous match and presumably Hooper didn't want to deal with the hassle from their rabble of a fanbase. He bottled it completely.

again consistency at the root of this also,if that was committed in the middle of the pitch foul no question,but being close to the end of a match NO VAR to question the validity of the decision and your not a big enough team to get away with it it dosent go your way,WHY. I thought he was going to be one of the better officials when he first started out a few seasons ago but since then sadly like al of them they over think it and not making the correct call. Also tall Paul  was given off when he was on,but composure let him down anyhow. Honestly we weren't at the game in 1st half improved 2nd, Aribo does alot of arm waving around when hes closing play down but never fully committed to taking control of the situation or is that just me ?. We still look fragile ,but not alot has changed in the 3 or so days since ,so the new guy whoever that is has abig job in hand ,but there is still hope at least that we will beat Derbys low points total,fingers crossed.

[captainchris]

Have to say that Rusk was very impressive tonight. Made changes when needed to tactics and personnel. Yes could have changed Dibling possible but on the whole very refreshing start from Rusk….

 

[Dragon_man]

Most enjoyable game of the season. Good to see excitment back at St Mary's.

Sure we were pants at times and some poor individual moments and sub par performances, but I saw some spirit and belief. There's now Russ scar tissue to deal with, a few times the players looked as though they wanted to go forward or be more positive and little Russ on their shoulder dragged them back.

Still don't see a way to stay up, but be good to get some real football and excitment back at St Mary's.

Tall Paul - want to love him so much and he has great moments, but need to see some finishing.

BBD - what were our scouts smoking?

 

 

[devonsaint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Poor first half but good to see us put up a bit of a fight in the second.

That disgrace of a decision by the ref at the end shows why we need VAR. You just can’t rely on the on field officials to get enough important decisions right. VAR would have a much better view of what happened than some fat, bald cunt desperately trying to keep up with play.

But VAR wouldn't have got involved because it was outside the box.

[Eric The Red]

Just now, devonsaint said:

But VAR wouldn't have got involved because it was outside the box.

VAR should have got involved if the ref missed a sending off offence. Haven't seen it back yet myself though

[Dragon_man]

Just seen the highlights with that 90th minute foul again. Unbelievable that it wasn't given. Was outside the box though.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, devonsaint said:

But VAR wouldn't have got involved because it was outside the box.

Red card offence. 

[jamesfp1]

Had it on in the background while me and a mate threw some darts. Looked like the most we'd "tried" all season. Happy. All we ask for.

[HKsaint]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I would say we have an absolutely tiny chance of survival but one big positive is if it really has been the system stifling us, the potential is there to get a lot better. It's not as if we were performing to our maximum and the players just weren't up to it. 

I am sure that the management will find another manager to restrain them and take away the tiny chance. 

Edited Thursday at 06:12 by HKsaint

[The Left Back]

Apologies if this has been covered already but who knew we had 3 long throwers? Sugawara, Manning and THB all unleashed an Exocet into the mixer. 

[coalman]

After the first half I thought oh dear.

Then in the second half we started doing things it seemed we were incapable of earlier in the season:

- making tackles and putting Liverpool under pressure

- moving the ball quickly to players in space 

- players talking to each other

It was almost as if the players stepped up and let emotion take over as someone once put it. It turns out that when they're not being micromanaged from the sidelines out players make some pretty good decisions.

I know it's only 45 minutes of football but that was the first time this season I thought we looked like a Premier League team.

[obelisk]

Second half Saints certainly mixed it up a bit. Some playing out from the back along with some longer stuff and that'll help to keep opponents wondering what's coming rather than being so damn predictable.

Attacking wise there was more potency too. Typical that Tall Paul should somewhat fluff his lines last night but get those crosses and long throws in and he'll worry opposition defences.

All probably too late to save the season but I wonder if the players will enjoy having the Rustyball shackles removed.

[Greenridge]

9 hours ago, Chez said:

he was pretty poor tonight. Looked a bit sluggish. I general though he has to start. He's quality, but if he plays we do need others that are happy to do the dirty work.

Same challenge with Fernandes which is why Downes has looked so ‘poor’ this season as he’s completely overrun with defensive duties. He needs help, either in personnel or structure. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, The Left Back said:

Apologies if this has been covered already but who knew we had 3 long throwers? Sugawara, Manning and THB all unleashed an Exocet into the mixer. 

Absolutely mental that we've had that in our locker this whole time, but Russ obviously wouldn't let them use it because there's too much chance of losing possession from them I suppose.