VAR theory in Brighton game

[NewYorkSaint]

So it seems that the reason VAR disallowed the goal is because the ref disallowed the goal on the field.

BUT it seems pretty clear that the reason the ref disallowed the goal is because the linesman raised his flag.

And I'm pretty sure the reason the linesman raised his flag was not for Armstrong but for Archer, the goal-scorer.

So why the heck can't the humans involved just have a rational conversation?

VAR to referee "Can you confirm? Was your disallowal because you thought Armstrong interfered with the play?  If so, we won't overturn it. But if you were just supporting your linesman, you should know that Archer was onside."

Surely that would be better than bringing the system into disrepute...  and UNFAIRLY KICKING AWAY LITERALLY 28% OF A TEAM'S ENTIRE SEASON'S POINTS (on top of three prior bad VAR calls).

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, NewYorkSaint said:

So it seems that the reason VAR disallowed the goal is because the ref disallowed the goal on the field.

BUT it seems pretty clear that the reason the ref disallowed the goal is because the linesman raised his flag.

And I'm pretty sure the reason the linesman raised his flag was not for Armstrong but for Archer, the goal-scorer.

So why the heck can't the humans involved just have a rational conversation?

VAR to referee "Can you confirm? Was your disallowal because you thought Armstrong interfered with the play?  If so, we won't overturn it. But if you were just supporting your linesman, you should know that Archer was onside."

Surely that would be better than bringing the system into disrepute...  and UNFAIRLY KICKING AWAY LITERALLY 28% OF A TEAM'S ENTIRE SEASON'S POINTS (on top of three prior bad VAR calls).

The officials are all miked up so there would have been a discussion.

[notnowcato]

32 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The officials are all miked up so there would have been a discussion.

Would be great to be able listen in to the officials. It won’t stop people having a different opinion but would add to the spectacle. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Would be great to be able listen in to the officials. It won’t stop people having a different opinion but would add to the spectacle. 

Some countries do that. At the Vancouver Whitecaps games that I went to there was a VAR incident where the referee went to the pitchside monitor and disallowed their goal for a foul somewhere. He announced his decision over the PA but I couldn’t understand a word of it. It was similar to what they do in American Football.

As it happened I didn’t agree with the decision but as we were told, “the referee is not always right, but he’s never wrong”.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, NewYorkSaint said:

So it seems that the reason VAR disallowed the goal is because the ref disallowed the goal on the field.

BUT it seems pretty clear that the reason the ref disallowed the goal is because the linesman raised his flag.

And I'm pretty sure the reason the linesman raised his flag was not for Armstrong but for Archer, the goal-scorer.

So why the heck can't the humans involved just have a rational conversation?

VAR to referee "Can you confirm? Was your disallowal because you thought Armstrong interfered with the play?  If so, we won't overturn it. But if you were just supporting your linesman, you should know that Archer was onside."

 

Incorrect. 
 

The fact the referee didn’t go to the screen proves the goal was disallowed on the field because of interference by AA, not Archer being offside.
 

Had the on field decision been Archer offside, the only way the goal can be chalked off is by a referee review. VAR cant make a decision whether someone is interfering they can only agree with the on field call, or ask the ref to review it. 

 

[die Mannyschaft]

The Brighton player who lunged st tge valley was playing with Saints players on side. It can't be off side ref flag or ref decision. The offside rule is complete nonsense. Get it back to tge 70/80s simple design making. I can't wait for Championship football. 

[Francis1947]

My other game that I follow is Rugby Union. As well as going to see some Saints matches at St.Marys I am also a Northampton Rugby club member.

I make the drive up to Northampton to see their home matches about 4 maybe 5 times a season

Now in any Rugby union match  if you purchase a set of headphones, you can listen to the interaction between referee and the TMO. Before this season ,you could only listen in on the refs microphone so you could listen in to their on field conversations with the players and only his feed to the TMO.

I have to say that the quality of decision making between the officials..including the linesmen...and the strict protocols they follow and go through to award a try or give a yellow or red card is extremely impressive. And that is in a game that is a much more technical one with many more rules than the round ball game.

I wonder why the Football authorities are so reluctant to hear the process between ref and VAR. You can only surmise that we wouldn't be too impressed !

[danjosaint]

22 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Incorrect. 
 

The fact the referee didn’t go to the screen proves the goal was disallowed on the field because of interference by AA, not Archer being offside.
 

Had the on field decision been Archer offside, the only way the goal can be chalked off is by a referee review. VAR cant make a decision whether someone is interfering they can only agree with the on field call, or ask the ref to review it. 

 

Don't think this is correct either, listening to the refs over the weekend on tv, the ref would never review an offside, ie Archer,that is done purely by var and there lines, ref has no input on that, the ref on TV said it was only disallowed because AA compromised Verbruggans ability to react, now on 1st glance when CA scores he immediately looks at lino who keeps flag down hence the celebrations. I think 'someone ' has gotten into his earpiece, all fills very iffy and the supposed clear and obvious error that it's meant to be is not working as there was no obvious error, just 4mins of 1 persons view on the incident, BV didn't react at all to AA so it's just bollocks 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I can't wait for Championship football. 

It would have been disallowed in the championship, and the Everton goal would have stood

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, danjosaint said:

fills very iffy and the supposed clear and obvious error that it's meant to be is not working as there was no obvious error, just 4mins of 1 persons view on the incident, 

You’ve got it back to front.
 

They did decide there was no clear and obvious error, so they went with on field decision, which was no goal. Had the goal been given on field, they’d probably have said that wasn’t a clear and obvious error as well. 

Edited December 3 by Lord Duckhunter

[Fabrice29]

4 hours ago, Francis1947 said:

My other game that I follow is Rugby Union. As well as going to see some Saints matches at St.Marys I am also a Northampton Rugby club member.

I make the drive up to Northampton to see their home matches about 4 maybe 5 times a season

Now in any Rugby union match  if you purchase a set of headphones, you can listen to the interaction between referee and the TMO. Before this season ,you could only listen in on the refs microphone so you could listen in to their on field conversations with the players and only his feed to the TMO.

I have to say that the quality of decision making between the officials..including the linesmen...and the strict protocols they follow and go through to award a try or give a yellow or red card is extremely impressive. And that is in a game that is a much more technical one with many more rules than the round ball game.

I wonder why the Football authorities are so reluctant to hear the process between ref and VAR. You can only surmise that we wouldn't be too impressed !

They aren't that reluctant seeing as the PL release the audio of various incidents each month. They also make all VAR audio available to commentators live, to clubs after each game and to some journalists. 

[Scummer]

There was a 29 second delay between us scoring and the ref disallowing the goal:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/42642095/var-review-timber-foul-arsenal-west-ham-southampton-offside

There were clearly quite lengthy discussions between the ref/linesman/VAR even before it went through the VAR process. I'd love to hear the audio.

[Football Special]

11 minutes ago, Scummer said:

There was a 29 second delay between us scoring and the ref disallowing the goal:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/42642095/var-review-timber-foul-arsenal-west-ham-southampton-offside

There were clearly quite lengthy discussions between the ref/linesman/VAR even before it went through the VAR process. I'd love to hear the audio.

Exactly, somebody told the Lino to raise his flag. 

This is an interesting thread , it's quite shocking to see some of the decisions we've been on the wrong end of already 

https://x.com/MikeySmale/status/1863856085615972799?t=Qamg54OVUWC7opejCcn_PA&s=19

[Saint Marky]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

Exactly, somebody told the Lino to raise his flag. 

This is an interesting thread , it's quite shocking to see some of the decisions we've been on the wrong end of already 

https://x.com/MikeySmale/status/1863856085615972799?t=Qamg54OVUWC7opejCcn_PA&s=19

We’ve been wronged, even more than that group of middle class women of a certain age.

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

Exactly, somebody told the Lino to raise his flag. 

This is an interesting thread , it's quite shocking to see some of the decisions we've been on the wrong end of already 

https://x.com/MikeySmale/status/1863856085615972799?t=Qamg54OVUWC7opejCcn_PA&s=19

Even the most ardent fan must surely admit it evens itself out over a season….for instance on the plus side the Everton goal that wasn’t (really) and kamikaze Downes not getting sent off in the Brighton game.

[Francis1947]

18 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

They aren't that reluctant seeing as the PL release the audio of various incidents each month. They also make all VAR audio available to commentators live, to clubs after each game and to some journalists. 

Fabrice

Not sure I was too clear with my desciption of how the Ref / TMO intercation works this season in the Rugby Premiership.

My point is that when a contentious incident occurs at Northampton be it a scoring of a try or foul play of any kind, we the crowd can hear exactly the conversation between the officials live and in real time.

We dont have to wait for the Rugby Premier League to release an audio of that conversation after the match, either to supporters or broadcaster or journalists. So, we the supporters can hear and understand how and why a decision is made then and there. It is illuminating and I have to say mostly impressive. Protocols, procedures etc are followed to the letter. 

In my opinion, the standard of rugby refeering is far far higher than the stuff we have to endure following Saints. There are now a fair number of ex players who have pursued a career as a referee in rugby union. Something I think almost unheard of in football. And this season, we have enjoyed a couple of matches being refereed by females. And very good they were too !

So I enjoy both sports and just by coincedence the two teams I follow are both " Saints "    

[Football Special]

6 hours ago, Oldandtired said:

Even the most ardent fan must surely admit it evens itself out over a season….for instance on the plus side the Everton goal that wasn’t (really) and kamikaze Downes not getting sent off in the Brighton game.

We've been the victims of corruption and incompetence, but that's fine as one day we might be the beneficiaries of the same? 

Downes was never a sending off don't know what you're on about