Should RM have more points?

[east-stand-nic]

Being that we have factually had one apology already from the PGMOL, in effect this means likely we would have got at least a draw with Leicester and on Friday 2 more points at Brighton. Wolves has also been mentioned but we lost 2-0 so forget that one. But if had got a fair rub of the green we would not be on 8 points and no where near as in the shit as we are now on 5 points.

Does this mean RM is not doing as bad as some of us think?

[Farmer Saint]

Not sure about that - we have as many points as we have, but it is frustrating. Probably should have 10 points.

However, I also think we'd have got 3 points against Leicester as we'd have likely been 3-1 up with 20 to play.

Wolves was 3 mistakes, which is a bit insane, but not sure if we'd have got anything from it anyway.

Edited 1 December, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[eurosaint]

We've really not had the rub of the green ! It seems that every 'subjective' decision has gone against us 🤨 !

I fully understand the toenail offsides but shirt pulling, interfering etc.. are purely in the mind of the officials (inc VAR) and that's where we're losing out !

Anthony Taylor's performance v Leicester was a disgrace from start to finish 😏

[egg]

22 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

We've really not had the rub of the green ! It seems that every 'subjective' decision has gone against us 🤨 !

I fully understand the toenail offsides but shirt pulling, interfering etc.. are purely in the mind of the officials (inc VAR) and that's where we're losing out !

Anthony Taylor's performance v Leicester was a disgrace from start to finish 😏

Let's not look for excuses. We're where we are because we've not been not been good enough and have been undone by tactical errors, strange player selections, and player errors. 

[stknowle]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Let's not look for excuses. We're where we are because we've not been not been good enough and have been undone by tactical errors, strange player selections, and player errors. 

Exactly. Let it not be forgotten that in the Leicester game in which we could have been 3-1 up had an obvious penalty been given we went on to lose 3-2 after bringing on Smallbone and Fraser to shore us up (massive facepalm)

[CB Fry]

42 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

We've really not had the rub of the green ! It seems that every 'subjective' decision has gone against us 🤨 !

I fully understand the toenail offsides but shirt pulling, interfering etc.. are purely in the mind of the officials (inc VAR) and that's where we're losing out !

Anthony Taylor's performance v Leicester was a disgrace from start to finish 😏

In the very first match our player managed to get a Newcastle player sent off meaning we got an entire half against ten men. 

Enough of the persecution complex, we're a weak squad appallingly coached/managed. Russell Martin's performance vs Leicester was a disgrace, he threw the game away.

Edited 1 December, 2024 by CB Fry

[Farmer Saint]

Shit everyone, keep your heads down - the forum vigilante has arrived 🤣

[badgerx16]

By the same measure, against Brighton, had their shot bounced in off the post rather than away from goal we would have been 2 down, and Downes could easily have been red carded before he was subbed. As has been said above, stupid errors, pissing about in our own area, baffling team sheets, certain players being frozen out, and the manager's in match stubbornness have put us where we are.

[austsaint]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Shit everyone, keep your heads down - the forum vigilante has arrived 🤣

He speaks a lot of sense though; suggesting (to me) your own contributions are characterised by hubris and look at me in-the-know claims.

[Saint_clark]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

By the same measure, against Brighton, had their shot bounced in off the post rather than away from goal we would have been 2 down, and Downes could easily have been red carded before he was subbed. As has been said above, stupid errors, pissing about in our own area, baffling team sheets, certain players being frozen out, and the manager's in match stubbornness have put us where we are.

A lucky bounce isn't at all relevant when talking about human errors or evidence of bias by officials, though. 

[austsaint]

26 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Exactly. Let it not be forgotten that in the Leicester game in which we could have been 3-1 up had an obvious penalty been given we went on to lose 3-2 after bringing on Smallbone and Fraser to shore us up (massive facepalm)

I still rate that Smallbone substitution v Leicester (bringing him on) after Martin had been quoted as saying he was happiest when Will Smallbone was on the pitch as the dumbest, ill-thought-out statement and decision I can recall.  Right up with the craziness of Nathan Jones.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

In answer to the original question, I say a big resounding YES!!!!

RM should have more points. Because he should be managing a mid table team in the Championship. Thats his level and that’s being generous. 
 

He shouldn't be managing ours, or any other Premier League team.  
 

[stknowle]

14 minutes ago, austsaint said:

I still rate that Smallbone substitution v Leicester (bringing him on) after Martin had been quoted as saying he was happiest when Will Smallbone was on the pitch as the dumbest, ill-thought-out statement and decision I can recall.  Right up with the craziness of Nathan Jones.

Indeed. If I went out having instructed Will Smallbone to look after my dog’s lead I’d fully expect to come back and discover that he’d lost it.

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

Being that we have factually had one apology already from the PGMOL, in effect this means likely we would have got at least a draw with Leicester and on Friday 2 more points at Brighton. Wolves has also been mentioned but we lost 2-0 so forget that one. But if had got a fair rub of the green we would not be on 8 points and no where near as in the shit as we are now on 5 points.

Does this mean RM is not doing as bad as some of us think?

Daft, do you think they would have blown the final whistle after the VAR wait if it had been allowed? Quite likely when a team go a goal down they rally, Brighton may well have won if we had gone 2-1 up.

[sadoldgit]

4 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

Being that we have factually had one apology already from the PGMOL, in effect this means likely we would have got at least a draw with Leicester and on Friday 2 more points at Brighton. Wolves has also been mentioned but we lost 2-0 so forget that one. But if had got a fair rub of the green we would not be on 8 points and no where near as in the shit as we are now on 5 points.

Does this mean RM is not doing as bad as some of us think?

If our second goal had been allowed how do you know that we would have gone on to win the game? There was still time for Brighton to equalise and even get a winner just as there was time for us to get another.

This speculation just as pointless as our league position. Unless the goal is scored (or disallowed) in the last second of the game, the game will play out differently, even if the score does eventually stay the same.

Sorry to be stating the bleedin’ obvious but all manner of things will affect the final result - team selection, tactics, weather conditions, on field decisions, substitutions etc. The only thing that matters in the end is the final result. Could have, should have, would have…we are where we are because we are currently the worst team in this league.

To borrow a quote from a TV personality, “If my grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle”.

Edited 1 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[tdmickey3]

The squad would have more without him

[tdmickey3]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Shit everyone, keep your heads down - the forum vigilante has arrived 🤣

And the club accountant is already here

[Wade Garrett]

Of course he should.  5 points at this stage of the season is terrible.

We would have more points without Martin.

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Of course he should.  5 points at this stage of the season is terrible.

We would have more points without Martin.

I may have misunderstood, but I think that the OP was saying that we should have more points but have been robbed by the officials and therefore perhaps we are not as crap as we think we are???

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I may have misunderstood, but I think that the OP was saying that we should have more points but have been robbed by the officials and therefore perhaps we are not as crap as we think we are???

Same as the majority of teams in the league.

We have lost more points due to team selection, tactics and substitutions than poor decisions against us.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I may have misunderstood, but I think that the OP was saying that we should have more points but have been robbed by the officials and therefore perhaps we are not as crap as we think we are???

We aren’t crap. Our manager (and owners) are.

[AlexLaw76]

Yes

[Turkish]

5th minute injury time equaliser against Ipswich 

goal “wrongly” disallowed by VAR at Wolves and Brighton 

penalty not given v Leicester which if scored would have put us 3-1 up 

penalty not given v Liverpool 

Could say we could have had another 8 points but I’m sure every other team could argue the same 

[Galway saint]

no he’s a poor coach 

[die Mannyschaft]

On the basis that Saints don't spend much time in the opposition box no. I'm surprised we have 5 points as it is. Factor in the ref and VAR then maybe 5 more points. If anything the 6 yard box keep ball we play it's luck we haven't let in another 6 goals.

[Disco Stu]

We've got exactly what we've deserved.

[Zorba]

Yes,

POINT him to the exit, for his POINT blank arrogance in pursuing his POINTless over-passing and not getting the whole POINT of football.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

13 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

Being that we have factually had one apology already from the PGMOL, in effect this means likely we would have got at least a draw with Leicester and on Friday 2 more points at Brighton. Wolves has also been mentioned but we lost 2-0 so forget that one. But if had got a fair rub of the green we would not be on 8 points and no where near as in the shit as we are now on 5 points.

Does this mean RM is not doing as bad as some of us think?

Of course not, decisions usually balance out for and against. It's too easy to focus on the things that didn't go our way and ignore the ones that did.

The league table doesn't lie especially after 12 games, i.e. 1/3rd of the season.

[Charlie Wayman]

6 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

We aren’t crap. Our manager (and owners) are.

Be fair, with one or two exceptions our players are awful (sic crap). Very few would get a game at any other PL club.

[Dark Munster]

9 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Be fair, with one or two exceptions our players are awful (sic crap). Very few would get a game at any other PL club.

I would say none of Ramsdale, KWP, THB, Suga, Bednarek, ABK, Downes, Aribo, Lallana, Fernandes, Fraser, Dibling, Archer, and Onuachu are awful, and most are lower PL quality at least.

Awful applies to RM.

F*cking awful applies to Rasmus Ankersen.

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I would say none of Ramsdale, KWP, THB, Suga, Bednarek, ABK, Downes, Aribo, Lallana, Fernandes, Fraser, Dibling, Archer, and Onuachu are awful, and most are lower PL quality at least.

Awful applies to RM.

F*cking awful applies to Rasmus Ankersen.

☝️ 

[Saint Marky]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

5th minute injury time equaliser against Ipswich 

goal “wrongly” disallowed by VAR at Wolves and Brighton 

penalty not given v Leicester which if scored would have put us 3-1 up 

penalty not given v Liverpool 

Could say we could have had another 8 points but I’m sure every other team could argue the same 

The Ipswich equaliser was a sickening blow, way off target before hitting Aribo, but that was just really bad luck! I believe we would have beaten Leicester, if the penalty had been given, ridiculous it wasn’t. Same with Liverpool, would have put us 3 -1 up, so at least a point there. Wolves, our disallowed goal and their second after two blatant fouls, again reeks of corruption against us, we were the better side at this point and with their form at that time, they could easily have capitulated , so at least 1 point. Brighton, robbed of the 3 points yet again and the comparison with Havertz offside, jumping for the ball and Ramsdale having to cover that and a tap in for Martenelli, but that’s a legitimate goal! I can’t think any other prem team has been so unfairly treated as us, so far this season and agree Turkish we really should be on 12 points, but for some appalling refereeing.

Edited 2 December, 2024 by Saint Marky

[Osvaldorama]

His overall style/philosophy is the reason we are at the bottom of the league, so it’s not an excuse. 
 

But yes we have been exceptionally unlucky with terrible refereeing this season. Even when we do play well, the ref ruins our day anyway.  

Absolutely detest VAR/the PL

[eurosaint]

Thanks for the vitriolic responses to my post re. bad decisions 😊

My only real point was that (no matter how bad we are!) we are only 4 points away from Palace in 17th and with a little bit of the 'rub of the green' our points tally would look so much better !

COYS 😇

[SaintsFan86]

Last 3 games aloje, should of probably had 7 points based off incompetence. But that's life.

Edited 2 December, 2024 by SaintsFan86

[Saint86]

I reckon we can reasonably attribute a good 6-7points to refereeing this season. Then consider at least some of those points were given to the likes of Leicester, Ipswich, and wolves - so deduct at least 2 to them - Its not at all clear we should even be in the relegation zone if we'd had fair or even consistent refereeing.

 

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I reckon we can reasonably attribute a good 6-7points to refereeing this season. Then consider at least some of those points were given to the likes of Leicester, Ipswich, and wolves - so deduct at least 2 to them - Its not at all clear we should even be in the relegation zone if we'd had fair or even consistent refereeing.

 

What about Bednarek staying on the pitch vs Everton or the wafer thin VAR in our favour in the same game?

You've taken those gained points off as part of your calculations right?

[notnowcato]

45 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I reckon we can reasonably attribute a good 6-7points to refereeing this season. Then consider at least some of those points were given to the likes of Leicester, Ipswich, and wolves - so deduct at least 2 to them - Its not at all clear we should even be in the relegation zone if we'd had fair or even consistent refereeing.

 

Spot on

[Dman]

I thnk we should just be greatful that we've got 5 points in such a tough leauge. 

We should consider ourselves blessed and proud to be watching these BRAVE young men, riddled with scar tissue, battle it out with the worlds best each week.