The Media

[sadoldgit]

I couldn’t find a general thread about the media so here we go.

I left The Guardian 24 years ago but still keep in contact with a few friends and colleagues on a WhatsApp group.

It is all kicking off at the moment because the Scott Trust want to sell The Observer and have lined up the sale to a start up business called Tortoise Media. The jounos and general staff are up in arms and a “mutiny” is on the cards.

Seems a strange move as The Observer is a natural bedfellow for The Guardian and they have never had a Sunday title before they bought it.

A number of big names have already jumped ship.

Edited 30 November, 2024 by sadoldgit

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fucking hell, that’s interesting….

[AlexLaw76]

So what?

[sadoldgit]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So what?

If you are not interested, why bother to respond?

Given the amount of right based media outlets in this country there is a worry about where it might end up - not that you would be bothered by another right leaning newspaper.

Edited 30 November, 2024 by sadoldgit

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’d love to read more about this, please keep us updated Soggy 👍

[badgerx16]

44 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If you are not interested, why bother to respond?

Given the amount of right based media outlets in this country there is a worry about where it might end up - not that you would be bothered by another right leaning newspaper.

I thought people were complaining that the media had too much of a left-wing bias.

[sadoldgit]

33 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I thought people were complaining that the media had too much of a left-wing bias.

According to the journo from The Telegraph on QT the other week the media in this country is pretty much all left biased. I just wish Fiona Bruce had asked him to name all of these left biased media outlets.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

According to the journo from The Telegraph on QT the other week the media in this country is pretty much all left biased. I just wish Fiona Bruce had asked him to name all of these left biased media outlets.

Maybe that’s because he is extreme right?

[sadoldgit]

For anyone interested, more information about the proposed Observer sale here. I’ll save you the trouble Batman, don’t bother.

Why should we be concerned? The Observer is the worlds oldest Sunday newspaper.

https://www.nuj.org.uk/resource/not-for-sale-save-the-observer.html

Edited 30 November, 2024 by sadoldgit

[Turkish]

37 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

For anyone interested, more information about the proposed Observer sale here. I’ll save you the trouble Batman, don’t bother.

https://www.nuj.org.uk/resource/not-for-sale-save-the-observer.html

Maybe you’ll get more interest in this topic on your pretend WhatsApp group with all your old pals from the guardian days. They’re probably still getting coffee breaks to discuss with it with you. 

Edited 30 November, 2024 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

For anyone interested

😂😂😂

[hypochondriac]

A Lefty paper employs people like soggy and then potentially goes bust because no one cares about them and their ridiculous opinions. Oh dear, how sad, cry me a river. 

[sadoldgit]

For those who want to believe their is a left wing bias in the media in the UK, this might come as a shock.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/media-audience-and-business-data/media_metrics/uk-media-bias-2024/

[Lord Duckhunter]

This thread keeps getting more and more interesting. 

[The Kraken]

“Going into the next general election Labour leader Keir Starmer will still have to contend with a largely right-wing printed press, but one that is far less influential today than it was in 1992.

Since 1931, when Stanley Baldwin attacked the power of the press barons for exercising “power without responsibility”, the role of right-wing press owners has been viewed by those on the left as a way of sloping the electoral playing field in favour of the Conservative Party. But in 2024 the power of the right-wing press is vastly outweighed by politically neutral broadcasters and news websites.”

[Turkish]

What’s the view from the WhatsApp group? Are they all nodding along in agreement with everything you say Soggy?

[Ted Bates Statue]

On 30/11/2024 at 13:25, sadoldgit said:

It is all kicking off at the moment because the Scott Trust want to sell The Observer and have lined up the sale to a start up business called Tortoise Media. The jounos and general staff are up in arms and a “mutiny” is on the cards.

From what I've seen of them, I thought Tortoise Media had a decent reputation for journalism, so what's to be concerned? Far better than some overseas billionaire getting their grubby mitts onto it like Murdoch, Rothermere or Lord Siberia.

 

Oh and I'm onto you btw. It looked innocent enough on the face of it, but you've managed a very good yield so far.

[sadoldgit]

27 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

From what I've seen of them, I thought Tortoise Media had a decent reputation for journalism, so what's to be concerned? Far better than some overseas billionaire getting their grubby mitts onto it like Murdoch, Rothermere or Lord Siberia.

 

Oh and I'm onto you btw. It looked innocent enough on the face of it, but you've managed a very good yield so far.

Do some more digging and you will see why the staff are so concerned. The Scott Trust is there to protect the editorial propriety and independence of its newspapers. Once it is sold it is at the mercy of its new owners.

There are also concerns about the financial situation at Tortoise, a loss making organisation that only launched in 2019.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/who-owns-tortoise-media-observer/

Edited 3 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Do some more digging and you will see why the staff are so concerned. The Scott Trust is there to protect the editorial propriety and independence of its newspapers. Once it is sold it is at the mercy of its new owners.

There are also concerns about the financial situation at Tortoise, a loss making organisation that only launched in 2019.

A massive issue that should concern us all. Can’t believe the BBC led with Gregg Wallace over this. Unbelievable 

[Gloucester Saint]

All the print media are in the shit financially to different extents. Telegraph is leaking £240m pa - that’s after rounds of redundancies, with a fairly obscure New York buyer coming in. Observer’s travails known about from those who read Private Eye hence the Tortoise buyout but Guardian has stabilised and in profit.

Mail’s losses not as heavy as the DT’s but not good at £44m https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/losses-balloon-44m-daily-mail-091347288.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACRJM_iadAB1PiBSVNqM6ezWqBIQd3k8UiHrYGOqz1ZWsff9bf0AJTtH-swoxDyuXqlHwCwnaIssescrUrAgAoLwin83qbttPCanhx3skMpBBr3-HqrzznVWV91uAuqChnmtGl18veAVsizyY0VzmvMNEwM0e5Z-oShcRCYNoOsd

It’s the sharp decline in both in print and online traffic that is spooking them. Mail on Sunday effectively gone as a separate brand and all edited by the Conservative Party’s own personal bot Ted Verity. MOS used to be far better than the Mail, pity. 

[sadoldgit]

It’s very sad, but not surprising, to see such declines in print circulation. I worked for The Guardian back in the 80’s when we nearly reached 500,000 (a lot of a left of centre broadsheet). We were boosted by the Gang of Four and from the formation of the Social Democrats which then morphed into the Liberal Democrats. There was a lot of interest in centrist politics back then. Unfortunately the writing was on the wall when online news/advertising started to pick up and I was part of an economic cull in 2000. The Guardian/Observer used to make about 50% of its income from print sales and 50% from advertising. Other titles had circulations in their millions and it is incredible to see how they all have fallen. Although newspapers don’t carry the weight they used to, front pages and news stories flood social media and the fact that we still refer to headlines in the Mail or Telegraph shows they still have clout. The are general social media platforms that still have threads dedicated to news directly from newspapers and they get a lot of traffic.

When I was younger front pages used to be dedicated to news with opinion pieces found deeper within the paper. Now most of the titles flood their front pages with their opinions, which is where the problem lies. Most of our mainstream titles are just puff pieces for right wing politics. The Mirror tries to do the same for left wing politics but gets crowded out by the others. The Guardian doesn’t do the same job for the left and centre that the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Times does for right wing politics on its front page. My contacts still at The Guardian/Observer work in Production and Circulation, both areas that have been squeezed over the last 20 odd years with experienced manages being let go and replaced by “bean counters”. Sad to see and maybe there will be a big enough resurgence in print sales to keep it going longer, after all who thought that vinyl would make a comeback?

 

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s very sad, but not surprising, to see such declines in print circulation. I worked for The Guardian back in the 80’s when we nearly reached 500,000 (a lot of a left of centre broadsheet). We were boosted by the Gang of Four and from the formation of the Social Democrats which then morphed into the Liberal Democrats. There was a lot of interest in centrist politics back then. Unfortunately the writing was on the wall when online news/advertising started to pick up and I was part of an economic cull in 2000. The Guardian/Observer used to make about 50% of its income from print sales and 50% from advertising. Other titles had circulations in their millions and it is incredible to see how they all have fallen. Although newspapers don’t carry the weight they used to, front pages and news stories flood social media and the fact that we still refer to headlines in the Mail or Telegraph shows they still have clout. The are general social media platforms that still have threads dedicated to news directly from newspapers and they get a lot of traffic.

When I was younger front pages used to be dedicated to news with opinion pieces found deeper within the paper. Now most of the titles flood their front pages with their opinions, which is where the problem lies. Most of our mainstream titles are just puff pieces for right wing politics. The Mirror tries to do the same for left wing politics but gets crowded out by the others. The Guardian doesn’t do the same job for the left and centre that the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Times does for right wing politics on its front page. My contacts still at The Guardian/Observer work in Production and Circulation, both areas that have been squeezed over the last 20 odd years with experienced manages being let go and replaced by “bean counters”. Sad to see and maybe there will be a big enough resurgence in print sales to keep it going longer, after all who thought that vinyl would make a comeback?

 

I guess with the internet there was no need for mass pools of typists anymore, the fact that you didn't take the opportunity to develop your skillset and move with the times is no one elses fault but yours.

It really isnt a surprise to see how sales have dropped off. My dad worked for the echo for many years, he took early retirement in the late 90s when they moved from town, his skills were no longer needed either, but he was in a position to retire and did something else rather than bitterly complaining about how times had changed. Even then the circulation had dropped significantly from what it was in the 70s and 80s. I guess the experienced managers you refer to are people like yourself, outdated skillsets used to coffee breaks and filing cabinets, replaced by younger people used to using technology instead of paper and staplers where one person can do the job of 5 filing clerks.

As for today, i cant remember the last time i bought a newspaper, i used to have one delivered every morning and get the echo and football echo on a weekend. Now it's all online. However spare a thought for the paper boys, a right of passage for everyone turning 13, which where i lived was the age you could get a round. Much like typists and filing clerks a job left in the last century.

[Whitey Grandad]

37 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s very sad, but not surprising, to see such declines in print circulation. I worked for The Guardian back in the 80’s when we nearly reached 500,000 (a lot of a left of centre broadsheet). We were boosted by the Gang of Four and from the formation of the Social Democrats which then morphed into the Liberal Democrats. There was a lot of interest in centrist politics back then. Unfortunately the writing was on the wall when online news/advertising started to pick up and I was part of an economic cull in 2000. The Guardian/Observer used to make about 50% of its income from print sales and 50% from advertising. Other titles had circulations in their millions and it is incredible to see how they all have fallen. Although newspapers don’t carry the weight they used to, front pages and news stories flood social media and the fact that we still refer to headlines in the Mail or Telegraph shows they still have clout. The are general social media platforms that still have threads dedicated to news directly from newspapers and they get a lot of traffic.

When I was younger front pages used to be dedicated to news with opinion pieces found deeper within the paper. Now most of the titles flood their front pages with their opinions, which is where the problem lies. Most of our mainstream titles are just puff pieces for right wing politics. The Mirror tries to do the same for left wing politics but gets crowded out by the others. The Guardian doesn’t do the same job for the left and centre that the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Times does for right wing politics on its front page. My contacts still at The Guardian/Observer work in Production and Circulation, both areas that have been squeezed over the last 20 odd years with experienced manages being let go and replaced by “bean counters”. Sad to see and maybe there will be a big enough resurgence in print sales to keep it going longer, after all who thought that vinyl would make a comeback?

 

I only by The Times for the puzzles.

[sadoldgit]

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I only by The Times for the puzzles.

Back in the 70’s when I was commuting into London I would buy the Daily Mail and the Evening Standard for the crossword puzzles. 

The Times was too difficult for me!
 

 

[badgerx16]

"Pin stripe suit,

Clean shirt and tie.

Stops off at the corner shop to buy the Times......"

 

"You miss page 3

But the Times is right for you....."

Edited 3 December, 2024 by badgerx16

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Back in the 70’s when I was commuting into London I would buy the Daily Mail and the Evening Standard for the crossword puzzles. 

The Times was too difficult for me!
 

 

My wife liked the crosswords but it’s the Sudokus for me. Ever since Covid they have been printing extras.

I don’t know if I would buy a hard copy if it weren’t for them.

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

My wife liked the crosswords but it’s the Sudokus for me. Ever since Covid they have been printing extras.

I don’t know if I would buy a hard copy if it weren’t for them.

We used to carry out surveys on readership. Many would say they bought The Guardian one day a week for the job adverts (media Mondays, education Tuesdays, social services Wednesdays). One person told me he bought it for the Doonesbury cartoon and another Tim Bell’s cartoons. The editor must have wondered why he was bothering with so many journalists on the staff.

[Lord Duckhunter]

24 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Back in the 70’s when I was commuting into London I would buy the Daily Mail

Fucking far right racist..

 

The mask slips…

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

My wife liked the crosswords but it’s the Sudokus for me. Ever since Covid they have been printing extras.

I don’t know if I would buy a hard copy if it weren’t for them.

Get a sudoku app Whitey

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

"Pin stripe suit,

Clean shirt and tie.

Stops off at the corner shop to buy the Times......"

 

"You miss page 3

But the Times is right for you....."

Come in Soggy a moment, take a seat take the weight off your feet

i have some news to tell you theres no longer a position for you.......

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking far right racist..

 

The mask slips…

oh dear 🤣

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Come in Soggy a moment, take a seat take the weight off your feet

i have some news to tell you theres no longer a position for you.......

From the Jam well worth seeing - think each tour they do an old Album. Fuck knows how old Bruce Foxton must be 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s very sad, but not surprising, to see such declines in print circulation. I worked for The Guardian back in the 80’s when we nearly reached 500,000 (a lot of a left of centre broadsheet). We were boosted by the Gang of Four and from the formation of the Social Democrats which then morphed into the Liberal Democrats. There was a lot of interest in centrist politics back then. Unfortunately the writing was on the wall when online news/advertising started to pick up and I was part of an economic cull in 2000. The Guardian/Observer used to make about 50% of its income from print sales and 50% from advertising. Other titles had circulations in their millions and it is incredible to see how they all have fallen. Although newspapers don’t carry the weight they used to, front pages and news stories flood social media and the fact that we still refer to headlines in the Mail or Telegraph shows they still have clout. The are general social media platforms that still have threads dedicated to news directly from newspapers and they get a lot of traffic.

When I was younger front pages used to be dedicated to news with opinion pieces found deeper within the paper. Now most of the titles flood their front pages with their opinions, which is where the problem lies. Most of our mainstream titles are just puff pieces for right wing politics. The Mirror tries to do the same for left wing politics but gets crowded out by the others. The Guardian doesn’t do the same job for the left and centre that the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Times does for right wing politics on its front page. My contacts still at The Guardian/Observer work in Production and Circulation, both areas that have been squeezed over the last 20 odd years with experienced manages being let go and replaced by “bean counters”. Sad to see and maybe there will be a big enough resurgence in print sales to keep it going longer, after all who thought that vinyl would make a comeback?

 

They’ve nearly all gone from being right or left-leaning to propaganda leaflets, written and edited by a pool of people who couldn’t get selected for seats or in Sarah Vine’s case trading off her ex-husband’s name, as Isabelle Oakeshott does as well. Even the Indy, the only one I do buy, has questionable ownership. Private Eye is the only print publication I make a conscious effort to carry in reading as it takes the piss out of everybody. 

Edited 3 December, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, whelk said:

From the Jam well worth seeing - think each tour they do an old Album. Fuck knows how old Bruce Foxton must be 

yeah seen them a couple of times, decent. 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

My wife liked the crosswords but it’s the Sudokus for me. Ever since Covid they have been printing extras.

I don’t know if I would buy a hard copy if it weren’t for them.

A former colleague many years ago detested board meetings and used to do Sudokus on the boardroom table. Was the only way he could keep engaged.

Me and my Director found it funny but not sure that the Chair did 😂

[Whitey Grandad]

23 hours ago, whelk said:

Get a sudoku app Whitey

But then how could I scribble little possible numbers all over the screen?

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But then how could I scribble little possible numbers all over the screen?

They let you use a virtual pencil to put the 'possibles' in the squares in a different font to your guesses at the correct answers.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

They let you use a virtual pencil to put the 'possibles' in the squares in a different font to your guesses at the correct answers.

Or use a post-it note.

[whelk]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

They let you use a virtual pencil to put the 'possibles' in the squares in a different font to your guesses at the correct answers.

Indeed and much simpler to use. Oh the smug feeling of resolving an ‘extreme’ one. That comes after expert and master which are hard enough

[sadoldgit]

Sale agreed in principle.

https://www.ft.com/content/29f50268-62e4-4978-8f91-3e3c7f719970

[Lord Duckhunter]

[Turkish]

 

[SotonianWill]

On 03/12/2024 at 14:33, sadoldgit said:

It’s very sad, but not surprising, to see such declines in print circulation. I worked for The Guardian back in the 80’s when we nearly reached 500,000 (a lot of a left of centre broadsheet). We were boosted by the Gang of Four and from the formation of the Social Democrats which then morphed into the Liberal Democrats. There was a lot of interest in centrist politics back then. Unfortunately the writing was on the wall when online news/advertising started to pick up and I was part of an economic cull in 2000. The Guardian/Observer used to make about 50% of its income from print sales and 50% from advertising. Other titles had circulations in their millions and it is incredible to see how they all have fallen. Although newspapers don’t carry the weight they used to, front pages and news stories flood social media and the fact that we still refer to headlines in the Mail or Telegraph shows they still have clout. The are general social media platforms that still have threads dedicated to news directly from newspapers and they get a lot of traffic.

When I was younger front pages used to be dedicated to news with opinion pieces found deeper within the paper. Now most of the titles flood their front pages with their opinions, which is where the problem lies. Most of our mainstream titles are just puff pieces for right wing politics. The Mirror tries to do the same for left wing politics but gets crowded out by the others. The Guardian doesn’t do the same job for the left and centre that the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Times does for right wing politics on its front page. My contacts still at The Guardian/Observer work in Production and Circulation, both areas that have been squeezed over the last 20 odd years with experienced manages being let go and replaced by “bean counters”. Sad to see and maybe there will be a big enough resurgence in print sales to keep it going longer, after all who thought that vinyl would make a comeback?

 

What was your role?

[sadoldgit]

49 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

What was your role?

The Circulation Department. Sales and distribution.

Edited 6 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[StDunko]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

Sales and distribution.

Snap, back in the day I used to be a paperboy too!

[Holmes_and_Watson]

56 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

What was your role?

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The Circulation Department. Sales and distribution.

That’s funny you told us you prosecuted rape and knife crime. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

42 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That’s funny you told us you prosecuted rape and knife crime. 

I've not really been reading, but wasn't that a different set of outdated, hard copy, coloured folders containing the actual work of others, at the CPS? The above was presumably using his pious intolerance, to play a part in the the Guardian's ongoing sales slump and transformation into parody paper.

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I've not really been reading, but wasn't that a different set of outdated, hard copy, coloured folders containing the actual work of others, at the CPS? The above was presumably using his pious intolerance, to play a part in the the Guardian's ongoing sales slump and transformation into parody paper.

It’s all very confusing. A while back he brashly boasted on a thread where knife crime came up that he’d spent much of his career prosecuting it. A while later on a discussion about sexual assault he then claimed he’d spent much of his career prosecuting that. It’s a bit of a career change to go from that to working in distribution for a newspaper especially when after a short period of time those “skills” were redundant. We all know SOGs very proud of his illustrious career, after all he kept email evidence of his boss squeezing an imaginary tit in the direction of his secretary. An incident which happened 40 odd years ago, but what he’d actually done for a career seems to change depending on what’s being discussed on here at the time. 

Edited 6 December, 2024 by Turkish

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s all very confusing. A while back he brashly boasted on a thread where knife crime came up that he’d spent much of his career prosecuting it. A while later on a discussion about sexual assault he then claimed he’d spent much of his career prosecuting that. It’s a bit of a career change to go from that to working in distribution for a newspaper especially when after a short period of time those “skills” were redundant. We all know SOGs very proud of his illustrious career, after all he kept email evidence of his boss squeezing an imaginary tit in the direction of his secretary. An incident which happened 40 odd years ago, but what he’d actually done for a career seems to change depending on what’s being discussed on here at the time. 

Ah, I see. Sales and Circulation just didn't sound like something a brave prosecutor of knife and sexual assault would be involved in. Had I read something about refusing to follow trial verdicts, getting procedures wrong on defendants, faking racially motivated crimes or trivialising child abuse, then I would have known it was firmly in his CPS skillset.

While it might seem hard for him to keep his experience consistent, I'm sure he meets lots of people who coincidentally also have exactly the same issue.