badgerx16 Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 The bigger question is how come cricket, rugby, and even the NFL, get replay technology right when football gets it so wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: It'd far more serious than that........... You disappointed me Badger I was trying to think of my next “ lol at….” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: It's far more serious than that........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 Just now, whelk said: You disappointed me Badger I was trying to think of my next “ lol at….” Lol at posters anticipating what others might be posting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 Just now, badgerx16 said: Lol at posters anticipating what others might be posting. It’s how I stay ahead of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 It’s not really difficult to watch the replay and see that Armstrong did none of those things. Compare that to Merino at Arsenal away though… very clear hesitation from Ramsdale and that’s deemed fine. They make it up as they go along. Corrupt. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWLondon Saint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 1 hour ago, The Kraken said: I struggle to see how on earth it could be argued that Armstrong is doing anything other than interfering with play. Hes right in the centre of goal and in the goalkeepers eye line. Absolutely no question it was the right call. Watching that again I'm thinking how the f*** do you get yourself ahead of the ball as a supposed top-class striker? Pretty much every 3v2 attacking drill you can make up that is the number 1 thing to watch out for as an attacker.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 48 minutes ago, The Kraken said: A poll went up in a national football forum I use about half an hour ago. Therefore a majority of non saints fans voting. You then have this one on the BBC: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldandtired Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 13 minutes ago, gio1saints said: Yes I think you are right. The defence is bad. Our attackers do t score as much as they should. The goal (s) we conceded many was rubbish. Our best young players will get stolen/ sold. That scenario has happened on and off the last fifty years. Whether it’s under SR and RM or any other ownership leadership. I just have a small flickering flame of belief that there is something going on that could really be different this time at SFC. If and when it restarts from the Championship next season I’m sanguine. We kept KWP last time but I doubt we can keep both TD and MF if we go down which would be a great shame as they give me value for my ST. BUT : we got two perhaps under this regime we will get more. Based on what? It can’t be on much of what we have witnessed this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said: You then have this one on the BBC: BBC website viewers are notably of lower intellect 😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 6 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said: Watching that again I'm thinking how the f*** do you get yourself ahead of the ball as a supposed top-class striker? Pretty much every 3v2 attacking drill you can make up that is the number 1 thing to watch out for as an attacker.... Who on earth rates AA as a “top class striker”?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldandtired Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 40 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: Trouble is, with relegation, go the likes of Dibling and Fernandes. So, not much point in "baking" a team. This. Imagine the team with no Ramsdale, KWP, THB, Downes, Fernandez and Dibling. No bright young things from the academy, nobody worth a damn wanting to come here. That could well be us in the Championship next year, still playing suicide football. I don’t think this is unwarranted pessimism, I would rather think of it as being pragmatic. And yet there are those who seem to think we will once again take it by storm (not that we did last year but you know what I mean). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: So no goal then. And Everton’s goal at St Mary’s would have stood as well. I was thinking of the clear and obvious rule. If VAR is taking 5 minutes, then it surely can't be classed as clear and obvious. It's just an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldandtired Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 4 minutes ago, The Kraken said: BBC website viewers are notably of lower intellect 😏 Than of the average football fan? Hmmmm….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 11 minutes ago, RedArmy said: It’s not really difficult to watch the replay and see that Armstrong did none of those things. Compare that to Merino at Arsenal away though… very clear hesitation from Ramsdale and that’s deemed fine. They make it up as they go along. Corrupt. Regardless, it shouldn't take 5 minutes to decide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 Just now, badgerx16 said: Regardless, it shouldn't take 5 minutes to decide. It didn’t take them 5 minutes to decide. They looked at it 3 or 4 times. They wasted 4 minutes drawing lines for a part of the play they then decided was irrelevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 minutes ago, Oldandtired said: This. Imagine the team with no Ramsdale, KWP, THB, Downes, Fernandez and Dibling........ Close to our lineup for our next match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeEnder Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 Away support last night was absolute quality, best I’ve known for a long time. But what a nightmare getting away from the ground, bloody carnage. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, trousers said: Was out last night so didn't get to see the game but, once again, it appears that VAR was misused by the officials. A VAR decision should never take circa 5 minutes. I've said this time and time again: if it takes that long to work out whether the on field decision was right or wrong then, by definition, it's not a "clear and obvious" error. There should be a 30 second time limit on VAR decisions. If they can't work it out in that time frame then stick with the on field decision. It's that simple (or should be...) Playing devil's advocate If you abandon yesterday's VAR decision making after 30 seconds then you have to stay with the onfield decision which was offside. Not sure how that means we were robbed or that VAR was misused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Special Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 hours ago, The Kraken said: I struggle to see how on earth it could be argued that Armstrong is doing anything other than interfering with play. Hes right in the centre of goal and in the goalkeepers eye line. Absolutely no question it was the right call. Fuck off its a perfectly good goal 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 hours ago, The Kraken said: I struggle to see how on earth it could be argued that Armstrong is doing anything other than interfering with play. Hes right in the centre of goal and in the goalkeepers eye line. Absolutely no question it was the right call. Watch this over and over, watch the keeper, he clearly sets to block Arma. Correct decsion all day long. If he'd not run in then neither the defender or GK can prevent the goal. PS, why didn't Archer do that finish in the first half. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 1 minute ago, sandwichsaint said: Watch this over and over, watch the keeper, he clearly sets to block Arma. Correct decsion all day long. If he'd not run in then neither the defender or GK can prevent the goal. PS, why didn't Archer do that finish in the first half. It’s been said before, but the ire should be directed not towards the officials but towards Armstrong for being so fucking stupid to be so clearly offside when he didn’t need to be. His intention was obviously to get on the end of the cross and, had he done so, it would’ve been instantly chalked off. In the video I’m not sure there’s any point in the play where’s he actually in an onside position. Just really poor forward play. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 53 minutes ago, Oldandtired said: Than of the average football fan? Hmmmm….. We are a cut above I think you will find 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitch Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 58 minutes ago, RedArmy said: Who on earth rates AA as a “top class striker”?? Well, he's a striker playing in the highest level of league football, so objectively he's a top-class striker. Whether you or I think he should be, of course, is a different matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 (edited) All the explanations I've read around it being the right call are based on assumptions and opinions, that's where it's wrong. It should be black and white. If you're offside and you touch the ball, which directly aids a goal, then yes - you can make that call. But when you start saying ''he didn't touch it, but he COULD have impacted the play with his movement'' then you're into really, really dodgy ground and it shouldn't really be up for debate. That's not a VAR thing to get involved in. Black and white offsides for sure, but going down to the detail of if a player who didn't touch the ball or score the goal, could have impacted the outcome just becomes daft. It will absolutely ruin football if they drill it down to that nuance, simply because it will never be consistent as there's no black and white criteria. It's all opinion based at the time and I don't think VAR should be opinion based. Edited November 30 by S-Clarke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 minutes ago, kitch said: Well, he's a striker playing in the highest level of league football, so objectively he's a top-class striker. Whether you or I think he should be, of course, is a different matter entirely. By that metric Ali Dia was also a top class striker. Behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: All the explanations I've read around it being the right call are based on assumptions and opinions, that's where it's wrong. It should be black and white. If you're offside and you touch the ball, which directly aids a goal, then yes - you can make that call. But when you start saying ''he didn't touch it, but he COULD have impacted the play with his movement'' then you're into really, really dodgy ground and it shouldn't really be up for debate. That's not a VAR thing to get involved in. Black and white offsides for sure, but going down to the detail of if a player who didn't touch the ball or score the goal, could have impacted the outcome just becomes daft. It will absolutely ruin football if they drill it down to that nuance, simply because it will never be consistent as there's no black and white criteria. It's all opinion based at the time and I don't think VAR should be opinion based. I think you have hit the nail on the head. The system is open to interpretation hence is often more grey than black and white. The fact that many people can look at the same situation and come up with different conclusions says it all. God knows what the answer is. There are still people arguing that Stokes was offside in 1976 so there will always be disagreements. The saddest thing is that the system brought in to help correct decision making easier seems to have had the opposite effect (along with the actual off side rules themselves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScandiSaint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 Obviously we are desperate for a win but a draw was not a bad result in the end. Dibling seems a bit like a hybrid of Bale and Grealish, what a talent, shame we are reliant on him so much. Think Manning has actually look a lot better in recent weeks, for a player that gets so much stick I think he is far from our worst performing player. Really starting to hate VAR. The best thing about going to a game, watching from home or listening on the radio is to celebrate a goal, if you can't even do that, it such takes away so much from being a fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obelisk Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 hours ago, whelk said: Yeah right. You wouldn’t have a clue without Sky slowing it down for you I mentioned that VAR would want a look at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 34 minutes ago, sandwichsaint said: Watch this over and over, watch the keeper, he clearly sets to block Arma. Correct decsion all day long. If he'd not run in then neither the defender or GK can prevent the goal. PS, why didn't Archer do that finish in the first half. All I can think of is that Archer didn’t expect the ball to come to him as the defender was skidding in to block it. He had milli seconds to react and couldn’t adjust himself quickly enough. Or perhaps I am being overly charitable and it was a Che Adams moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oldandtired said: This. Imagine the team with no Ramsdale, KWP, THB, Downes, Fernandez and Dibling. No bright young things from the academy, nobody worth a damn wanting to come here. That could well be us in the Championship next year, still playing suicide football. I don’t think this is unwarranted pessimism, I would rather think of it as being pragmatic. And yet there are those who seem to think we will once again take it by storm (not that we did last year but you know what I mean). Not sure Downes will leave. The others, yep, but we'll get a tonne of money for Dibbling and will be able to buy a couple of decent players. We will be as attractive as anyone else in the Champ. We should definitely be pushing for promotion with a squad of: Baz, Lumley, NEW? Bree, Suga, Manning, [Taylor?]/NEW NEW, [Bednarek?], Stephens, Edwards, Wood Downes, Smallbone, [Lallana?], [Aribo?], NEW, [NEW?] Edozie, Fraser, SAA, NEW Archer, Armstrong, Diaz, [Tall Paul?], [Stewart - lol?] Good Championship squad with some work to do at centre back and centre mid. --------------Baz------------ Suga-NEW-Stephens-Manning ‐------------Downes---------- ----Smallbone----NEW------- SAA-----------------Armstrong ------------Archer------------ Edited November 30 by benjii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, James G said: I was thinking of the clear and obvious rule. If VAR is taking 5 minutes, then it surely can't be classed as clear and obvious. It's just an idea Then it would have been no goal as the on field decision was offside. The VAR was deciding whether a clear and obvious error was made, and deciding it wasn’t. You are basically arguing for something that did happen. Edited November 30 by Lord Duckhunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 (edited) 27 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: There are still people arguing that Stokes was offside in 1976 so there will always be disagreements FFS What is so hard to understand. Stokes’ offside is factual, AA was subjective, it’s a totally different situation. VAR would have ruled Stokes onside or off. The referee/lino decides whether AA is interfering & the VAR reviews that. If VAR thinks a clear and obvious error has been made, the referee is sent to the monitor, if he doesn’t the goal is disallowed without him needing to visit the monitor(which is what happened).. In this instance VAR process is actually working in Saints favour, because without it there’s zero chance the goal stands. They’re reviewing whether a disallowed goal should be allowed, not finding a reason to disallow a goal. Edited November 30 by Lord Duckhunter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 22 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: I think you have hit the nail on the head. The system is open to interpretation hence is often more grey than black and white. The fact that many people can look at the same situation and come up with different conclusions says it all. God knows what the answer is. There are still people arguing that Stokes was offside in 1976 so there will always be disagreements. The saddest thing is that the system brought in to help correct decision making easier seems to have had the opposite effect (along with the actual off side rules themselves). To be honest it looked a dead cert offside as soon as I saw it but was hoping the guys looking at VAR would get it wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 26 minutes ago, benjii said: Not sure Downes will leave. The others, yep, but we'll get a tonne of money for Dibbling and will be able to buy a couple of decent players. We will be as attractive as anyone else in the Champ. We should definitely be pushing for promotion with a squad of: Baz, Lumley, NEW? Bree, Suga, Manning, [Taylor?]/NEW NEW, [Bednarek?], Stephens, Edwards, Wood Downes, Smallbone, [Lallana?], [Aribo?], NEW, [NEW?] Edozie, Fraser, SAA, NEW Archer, Armstrong, Diaz, [Tall Paul?], [Stewart - lol?] Good Championship squad with some work to do at centre back and centre mid. --------------Baz------------ Suga-NEW-Stephens-Manning ‐------------Downes---------- ----Smallbone----NEW------- SAA-----------------Armstrong ------------Archer------------ I agree. Depending on who goes and who comes in of course, but we have the basis of a squad that should do well in the Championship (which is part of our problem now!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 29 minutes ago, benjii said: Not sure Downes will leave. The others, yep, but we'll get a tonne of money for Dibbling and will be able to buy a couple of decent players. We will be as attractive as anyone else in the Champ. We should definitely be pushing for promotion with a squad of: Baz, Lumley, NEW? Bree, Suga, Manning, [Taylor?]/NEW NEW, [Bednarek?], Stephens, Edwards, Wood Downes, Smallbone, [Lallana?], [Aribo?], NEW, [NEW?] Edozie, Fraser, SAA, NEW Archer, Armstrong, Diaz, [Tall Paul?], [Stewart - lol?] Good Championship squad with some work to do at centre back and centre mid. --------------Baz------------ Suga-NEW-Stephens-Manning ‐------------Downes---------- ----Smallbone----NEW------- SAA-----------------Armstrong ------------Archer------------ Charles seems to be doing a good job at Sheffield Wednesday so he'd be an adequate back-up/rotation option in midfield you'd think. I can't imagine we'd need to add at CB with Bednarek, Stephens, Wood and Edwards, with the latter two likely being brought in for this eventuality. Had a few surprising players stick around last time so hopefully we manage to pull that off again in the shape of Fernandes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, OldNick said: were you on VAR last night ? Centre of the goal lol He almost runs over the penalty spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, OldNick said: ANother thig, if the ref knew he was going to disallow it for interfering why did he let it go to VAR? He has no choice with offsides. Was he sent to the monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, OldNick said: well he is a useless keeper if he is looking at Armstrong instead of Fraser who is crossing the ball, it is all subjective I believe it was a bad error by the officials that has cost us. No. A keeper watches everything including the scoring threats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, OldNick said: Yes without VAR but once it was proved Archer was onside the decision to then penalise Armstrong was wrong. It seems the majority of non Saints fans feel we were done You may very well think that. Others will differ. There is no right or wrong decision here. Just a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 hours ago, S-Clarke said: He didn't touch the ball or impact the course of the ball, that simply has to be the criteria in any situation being questioned. Sure, he was offside, but you cannot rule a goal out because someone was offside who didn't touch the ball. It then becomes the opinion of neutrals as to if the player, without touching, will have impacted the ball to the guy who was on side. It's absolute nonsense of the highest level and there's no sticking up for it. You are so wrong here. I suggest that you go and read the IFAB instructions regarding offside. Basically, you don’t have to touch the ball to be interfering with play or an opponent. Armstrong was well offside and before VAR (and TV) nobody in the ground would have questioned it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 14 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said: He almost runs over the penalty spot. So he may have but at an angled run as he ends 6 ft to the side of the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 things. Their goalkeeper after the goal made no complaint and apparently has said in an interview he didnt know why the goal was given as offside, and they got away with one 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 hours ago, RedArmy said: It’s not really difficult to watch the replay and see that Armstrong did none of those things. Compare that to Merino at Arsenal away though… very clear hesitation from Ramsdale and that’s deemed fine. They make it up as they go along. Corrupt. #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWLondon Saint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 2 hours ago, RedArmy said: Who on earth rates AA as a “top class striker”?? Well I did say 'supposedly'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 5 minutes ago, OldNick said: So he may have but at an angled run as he ends 6 ft to the side of the goal. So? “At the moment the ball is kicked” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said: So? “At the moment the ball is kicked” Well at the moment the ball is kicked the keeper is looking at Frazer. You can go around in circles trying to make your point but IMO he is not impaired by Armstrong. The keeper even has reportedly said so in an interview 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 (edited) Agree that the fans last night were in top form ... part from 10 mins at start of second half, near constant positive singing Scenes when we equalised (& the disallowed 'goal')will live long in the memory - absolute carnage! Thank Christ they has padded seats otherwise my shins would be on an even worse state today 😛 Credit to the 5 lads that started the Matty Fernandez song in the concourse before the game - managed to get the whole 3k Saints fans singing it whole game 🤩 Edited November 30 by warsash saint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 5 minutes ago, OldNick said: Well at the moment the ball is kicked the keeper is looking at Frazer. You can go around in circles trying to make your point but IMO he is not impaired by Armstrong. The keeper even has reportedly said so in an interview You have changed the subject here. We were talking about Armstrong’s position. and how the hell can you tell where the keeper is looking? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted November 30 Share Posted November 30 I thought that the officials weren't suppose to make a decision if a goal goes in but wait for confirmation from VAR. If that's the case the officials jumped the gun and left VAR looking at overturning the onfield offside decision. In which case why didn't VAR ignore the premature onfield decision and adjudicate on the video. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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