Brighton 1-1 Saints - Match Thread

[coalman]

https://www.southamptonfc.com/en/video/press-conference-part-one-martin-looks-to-brighton

That's a really uncomfortable watch. He's gone back to spending half his time looking off to the side. Incredible quantities of beard stroking and really prickly to stress how early he is in the long term plan.

[saintoaks]

Happy with 4 points and doing it your own way that doesnt work, oh do fuck off

"We are doing it in our own way. We are trying to build from last season where we had a lot of change. We're very, very different and it is a long-term plan. I came in at the start of a long-term plan and I am really enjoying being part of it."

[Fabrice29]

Man asked about structure of a football club gives answer about structure of a club and the answer is quoted as being about the teams performance. Cool. 

[saintant]

Said TP scores loads of goals in training - well as we score so few goals in matches it might have been a good idea to give him a few more starts before now. Some of the bullshit spoken at these press conferences defies belief. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The squad is not good. Five, maybe six players are good enough to play in his league. The rest are Championship players.

Players are just that. Players. Some are better than others.

But a team is greater than the sum of its players.

[VectisSaint]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

But a team is greater than the sum of its players.

or in our case at the moment less than the sum of its players

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

or in our case at the moment less than the sum of its players

Exactly. And we all know why that is.

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Like Ipswich you mean and Luton that although probably will and went down put up some sort of fight 

What’s your point? You’ve just named two clubs who were either relegated or are also in the relegation zone. Are squad is not a good one. Any side who gets promoted and gives contracts to Wood, McCarthy, Fraser and Brereton Diaz is not aiming high.

[Francis1947]

I'm sorry to do this to you chaps but somehow it's strangely cathartic to write this and get it off my chest !

So..the skript for tomorrow night.

He will make a couple of little tweaks to the side. They won't achieve anything but maybe Manning in, Fraser out, possibly Archer in, Armstrong out. Who cares. Not me any more ! None of it makes any sense any more.

And so we will trot out under the night sky at Brighton. And maybe for possibly 20 / 30 mins we will make scores of short passes to a team mate,all in our own half. Sideways or backwards. We will watch whoever is up front...and it really doesn't matter this part of the script , that they will make runs  

But no one ever finds them or even makes an attempt to fire a ball over the top. Oh no because that isn't the way our Manager plays football is it and not part of his ' philosophy ' And so they tire and eventually gi e up

And then somewhen at the end of the firts half or maybe, if we are fortunate, early in the second,someone will make a ricket by trying to play an impossible pass probably in our own penalty area and Brighton will score and go on to win.

And then after the match the stats will be analysed and it will appear that we have had maybe 60 % possession , maybe more ! and the pundits will approve and say what a brave little club we are to play in this way. 

And then Martin will be interviewed post match and say how brave we were and he's proud of his players and don't despair, it will all c9me good in the end 

And we the suffering fans will watch Wolves and Leicester and Crystal Palace all having the courage in trying to get away by changing manager or actually drawing or even winning a match. Imagine that !!! But not us eh.

It's like some Kafkuesqe comedy but it's not funny.

There..do I feel better ? Not really but I will watch tomorrow as we all will .

[scumbag]

'We're doing it our own way'. There's nothing really unique about getting spanked every week.  So I guess he must mean the knocking around the back until we make a mistake bit.

Some 'project' that, cheers pal.

[danjosaint]

47 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What’s your point? You’ve just named two clubs who were either relegated or are also in the relegation zone. Are squad is not a good one. Any side who gets promoted and gives contracts to Wood, McCarthy, Fraser and Brereton Diaz is not aiming high.

Ffs my point is, yes our team is pretty poor nobody is really arguing that, so were the ones I mentioned , but they all had a bit of fight about them or at least a bit of organisation about them, fans would accept the dull clueless football being served up if there was a bit of fight right up to the final whistle. At man city we just had a dangerous free kick free kick in last minute , as the final  whistle went Jack Stephens  was pissing around with the ball on the edge of our own box, there's no fight, urgency and that's irrelevant of your squad standard, it's the bare fucking minimum  u should be doing

[Lighthouse]

26 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Ffs my point is, yes our team is pretty poor nobody is really arguing that, so were the ones I mentioned , but they all had a bit of fight about them or at least a bit of organisation about them, fans would accept the dull clueless football being served up if there was a bit of fight right up to the final whistle. At man city we just had a dangerous free kick free kick in last minute , as the final  whistle went Jack Stephens  was pissing around with the ball on the edge of our own box, there's no fight, urgency and that's irrelevant of your squad standard, it's the bare fucking minimum  u should be doing

What are you on about? I was disagreeing with somebody who was literally saying our squad is good. It isn’t.

As to the rest of your post, teams with no fight about them don’t lead Arsenal and Liverpool with an hour on the clock, they’re usually 3-0 down by half time. The team is clearly trying, they just lack talent.

[Hayling Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What are you on about? I was disagreeing with somebody who was literally saying our squad is good. It isn’t.

As to the rest of your post, teams with no fight about them don’t lead Arsenal and Liverpool with an hour on the clock, they’re usually 3-0 down by half time. The team is clearly trying, they just lack talent.

Totally agree.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What are you on about? I was disagreeing with somebody who was literally saying our squad is good. It isn’t.

As to the rest of your post, teams with no fight about them don’t lead Arsenal and Liverpool with an hour on the clock, they’re usually 3-0 down by half time. The team is clearly trying, they just lack talent.

Enough talent to get into the lead but not enough talent to defend it?

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Enough talent to get into the lead but not enough talent to defend it?

Exactly that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The squad is not good. Five, maybe six players are good enough to play in his league. The rest are Championship players.

You keep coming out with this rubbish to defend Lego head. 
 

This is what you call a poor squad, a squad which that great managerial genius Chris Wilder took into the top 10 the season after their promotion. Is it so unreasonable to expect our squad (which is so much better) to actually have more than 1 win so far? 
 

 

 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Any side who gets promoted and gives contracts to Wood, McCarthy, Fraser and Brereton Diaz is not aiming high.

I don't think anyone was expecting Saints to achieve a "high" finish in this league, but I suspect most were anticipating having a tad more points than the grand total of 4 after 12 games. The squad is better than that, in my humble opinion. 

Edited 28 November, 2024 by trousers

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, saintoaks said:

Happy with 4 points and doing it your own way that doesnt work, oh do fuck off

"We are doing it in our own way. We are trying to build from last season where we had a lot of change. We're very, very different and it is a long-term plan. I came in at the start of a long-term plan and I am really enjoying being part of it."

"We're very, very different" this guy honestly thinks he's trying something unique and revolutionary and that's why it's taking so long to "get right", because it's a completely alien concept for the players. 

[Saint_clark]

19 minutes ago, trousers said:

I don't think anyone was expecting Saints to achieve a "high" finish in this league, but I suspect most were anticipating having a tad more points than the grand total of 4 after 12 games. The squad is better than that, in my humble opinion. 

Yep. We might not have a good team, but we have the players that could do better than 4 points from 12 games if set up the right way. I have no doubt we'd have more points if we'd played Onuachu all season, for example. 

[Lighthouse]

29 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Enough talent to get into the lead but not enough talent to defend it?

Correct. We had the talent to take the lead but the mistakes made by the likes of Downes, Suga and threw away those games.

17 minutes ago, trousers said:

I don't think anyone was expecting Saints to achieve a "high" finish in this league, but I suspect most were anticipating having a tad more points than the grand total of 4 after 12 games. The squad is better than that, in my humble opinion. 

Trying to guess points totals is a mugs game but I was expecting to be comfortably bottom based on our squad and if someone had told me 4 points after 12 games, I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Seriously poor defence made by Russ of his ‘revolutionary’ ideas. And he has the temerity to confirm that their first goal came because the players didn’t listen to him and ignored the fact that there were too many Pool players around our area! FFS Russ, what are you telling them? It’s really fucking simple…if there are more than four players in our half, don’t under any circumstances fanny around passing out at the back - get rid of the fucking ball! Also, ALWAYS have a player near the halfway line when the opposition are about to put a dead ball into our box from a corner or free kick - that will consume at least one if not two of their players and provides an outlet and potential break. These are absolute basics that I don’t believe the players are ignoring…they’re overridden by Russball.

[sfc4prem]

This scares me as one of those games we get dicked in.

A 'fighting performance' or an 'unlucky defeat' against a table-topping side, then followed by an absolute pasting by a focused and high-quality side that are ready to capitalise and take the game to us.

[Whitey Grandad]

28 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Correct. We had the talent to take the lead but the mistakes made by the likes of Downes, Suga and threw away those games.

Trying to guess points totals is a mugs game but I was expecting to be comfortably bottom based on our squad and if someone had told me 4 points after 12 games, I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised.

The system exaggerates any mistakes and makes them more likely to lead to goals conceded.

Even less talented players can be drilled to produce a tight defence. Defending is easier to coach than scoring goals but this posturing imposter has never been able to do that wherever he has been.

I have no doubt that a more competent and experienced manager would have us set up better defensively. I don’t think we’d survive but we would at the least have made a fist of it.

[Whitey Grandad]

29 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Seriously poor defence made by Russ of his ‘revolutionary’ ideas. And he has the temerity to confirm that their first goal came because the players didn’t listen to him and ignored the fact that there were too many Pool players around our area! FFS Russ, what are you telling them? It’s really fucking simple…if there are more than four players in our half, don’t under any circumstances fanny around passing out at the back - get rid of the fucking ball! Also, ALWAYS have a player near the halfway line when the opposition are about to put a dead ball into our box from a corner or free kick - that will consume at least one if not two of their players and provides an outlet and potential break. These are absolute basics that I don’t believe the players are ignoring…they’re overridden by Russball.

Yep always leave a player or two upfield. My neighbour Ivan Golac (name drop) said that he like to leave three upfield because then the opposition had to mark them with four.

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Correct. We had the talent to take the lead but the mistakes made by the likes of Downes, Suga and threw away those games.

Trying to guess points totals is a mugs game but I was expecting to be comfortably bottom based on our squad and if someone had told me 4 points after 12 games, I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised.

With RM in charge I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised either.

With a semi decent manager in charge I would've been gobsmacked we'd have such an appalling total of 4 points after 12 matches. Our squad isn't that bad, no matter how much you try to dress it up that it is.

[Daft Kerplunk]

12 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It’s really fucking simple…if there are more than four players in our half, don’t under any circumstances fanny around passing out at the back - get rid of the fucking ball!

I take it you mean 4 opposition players in our penalty box? 4 opposition players in our half isn’t a problem to overcome for even the least technical pros) The really stupid thing happening at the moment at the moment is that we are passing in to congested areas central and close to our goal. No problem playing it out from the back if the distances are correct or the direction of the pass is right, but we are just too tight and closely marked in the wrong areas, and the opposition is pouncing to take advantage frequently when we lose possession or have a brain fart, lose concentration or play it too short or mishit a pass. Opposition teams must love playing against us right now. 

[Saint NL]

Hopefully Russ gets a new tombola in the black Friday sales as the last one is clearly broken.

 

Can't see anything other than a loss tonight. 

[Lighthouse]

7 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

With RM in charge I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised either.

With a semi decent manager in charge I would've been gobsmacked we'd have such an appalling total of 4 points after 12 matches. Our squad isn't that bad, no matter how much you try to dress it up that it is.

It is that bad. Premier League teams have a Premier League team and Premier League players on the bench to change things if needed. We just about put out half a Premier League team, the rest is Championship level filler.

[Football Special]

18 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

I take it you mean 4 opposition players in our penalty box? 4 opposition players in our half isn’t a problem to overcome for even the least technical pros) The really stupid thing happening at the moment at the moment is that we are passing in to congested areas central and close to our goal. No problem playing it out from the back if the distances are correct or the direction of the pass is right, but we are just too tight and closely marked in the wrong areas, and the opposition is pouncing to take advantage frequently when we lose possession or have a brain fart, lose concentration or play it too short or mishit a pass. Opposition teams must love playing against us right now. 

Here's Celtic showing us how it's done, lovely stuff

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/15hThDFJSV/

[jasonbenali]

Big game for both teams. If Brighton win they could go second and if we win we could go bottom.

[Morse]

There are two issues/problems at the club, one is the squad, one is the manager. 

The squad is not good enough. There are maximum five players who would interest other premiership clubs the rest is championship quality at best. That said, worse squads than ours have stayed up in the past and will do again under the right manager who cuts his cloth accordingly.  

Which brings us to the second issue, the manager. Russel Martin has failed to appreciate the limitations of his squad, and how to get the best out of them. It's a simple as that. 

Both of these problems are unarguably the fault of Sport Republic.

Tonight's result 3-0 home win.

Season result 20th relegated on 8 points. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

I take it you mean 4 opposition players in our penalty box? 4 opposition players in our half isn’t a problem to overcome for even the least technical pros) The really stupid thing happening at the moment at the moment is that we are passing in to congested areas central and close to our goal. No problem playing it out from the back if the distances are correct or the direction of the pass is right, but we are just too tight and closely marked in the wrong areas, and the opposition is pouncing to take advantage frequently when we lose possession or have a brain fart, lose concentration or play it too short or mishit a pass. Opposition teams must love playing against us right now. 

That was only an illustration of a simple clear instruction to the players to get them thinking collectively about how to play out. My feeling is four oppo players in our pen area is too risky at the present time with this squad and even that would lead to disaster. But yes, we agree on the same principle…the level of risk allowed is clearly not working atall - whether that’s because Russ has instructed them to play that way or because they’ve been allowed to work it out for themselves in the heat of battle matters not - all too often it’s an absolute shambles that needs a solution.

Edited 29 November, 2024 by Saint Fan CaM

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

That was only an illustration of a simple clear instruction to the players to get them thinking collectively about how to play out. My feeling is four oppo players in our pen area is too risky at the present time with this squad and even that would lead to disaster. But yes, we agree on the same principle…the level of risk allowed is clearly not working atall - whether that’s because Russ has instructed them to play that way or because they’ve been allowed to work it out for themselves in the heat of battle matters not - all too often it’s an absolute shambles that needs a solution.

Of course it’s risky. And stupid. The slightest mistake and it costs us a goal. When do we ever have four players in the opposition penalty area? If the thinking behind this system is to draw the opposition in then it’s working. 
 

Once they have been drawn in then we are supposed to have more room to break free and counter but the exit pass never comes because it’s not allowed to.

I wonder if Martin’s preference for five at the back is because he wants his defenders to be closer together to make the passing between themselves easier. For this reason alone he should go. He simply doesn’t like us to be attack minded.

[Doctoroncall]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It is that bad. Premier League teams have a Premier League team and Premier League players on the bench to change things if needed. We just about put out half a Premier League team, the rest is Championship level filler.

What do you make of other squads like Ipswich, Leicester, Everton, Crystal Palace and Bournemouth?

Are Saints really that far behind these squads that they have two to three times the number of points and Saints are already cut adrift in the table?

[Appy]

19 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

What do you make of other squads like Ipswich, Leicester, Everton, Crystal Palace and Bournemouth?

Are Saints really that far behind these squads that they have two to three times the number of points and Saints are already cut adrift in the table?

Bournemouth and Palace definitely, the others, not so much. 

[tdmickey3]

41 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

What do you make of other squads like Ipswich, Leicester, Everton, Crystal Palace and Bournemouth?

Are Saints really that far behind these squads that they have two to three times the number of points and Saints are already cut adrift in the table?

No, not at all, they are just competently managed 

[JohnS]

Can only see a very heavy defeat tonight with Brighton’s excellent attack being far too good for our Woeful defence 😔 4/5 nil 

Hope I’m very wrong! 

[danjosaint]

17 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You keep coming out with this rubbish to defend Lego head. 
 

This is what you call a poor squad, a squad which that great managerial genius Chris Wilder took into the top 10 the season after their promotion. Is it so unreasonable to expect our squad (which is so much better) to actually have more than 1 win so far? 
 

 

 

How many years into the 10yr plan was this squad 

[Galway saint]

Wonder what random changes we will see tonight 

Will go for Manning in place of Fraser, Archer for Armstrong and Sugawara for KWP

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Of course it’s risky. And stupid. The slightest mistake and it costs us a goal. When do we ever have four players in the opposition penalty area? If the thinking behind this system is to draw the opposition in then it’s working. 
 

Once they have been drawn in then we are supposed to have more room to break free and counter but the exit pass never comes because it’s not allowed to.

I wonder if Martin’s preference for five at the back is because he wants his defenders to be closer together to make the passing between themselves easier. For this reason alone he should go. He simply doesn’t like us to be attack minded.

If this is the case he's more clueless than I thought. Teams who play out from the back properly avoid short passes and instead hit longer, hard hit passes along the ground - this is how you stretch opponents and pull them out of shape not with tippy tappy passes in and around your own penalty area.

[Chewy]

1 hour ago, Galway saint said:

Wonder what random changes we will see tonight 

Will go for Manning in place of Fraser, Archer for Armstrong and Sugawara for KWP

Sugawara passed it forward twice, once for the goal and once later on which caused RM to have a tantrum on the touchline because we lost the ball. He mentioned it later in an interview, how we didn’t get the ball back for 6 minutes even though the crowd cheered it.

Id be amazed if Suga isn’t dropped altogether.

I hope RM isn’t quite that petty but have my suspicions.

[Totton Saint]

Don't worry everyone. My antennae tell me we will win tonight.  

[notnowcato]

Fuck it. Took the day off - it’s my birthday after all, been in the pub since 1, warming up nicely. Bit of Chinese in a bit before heading to the ground. 
Low expectations, limited hope but it’s football… and it can be a funny old game at times. 
Up the fucking Saints!

Oh, stick to the Harveys Best, the rest is piss. 

Edited 29 November, 2024 by notnowcato

[bugenhagen]

2 hours ago, Galway saint said:

Wonder what random changes we will see tonight 

Will go for Manning in place of Fraser, Archer for Armstrong and Sugawara for KWP

Nonsense! Not random enough.

I expect to see Taylor back out of nowhere, Wood or Edwards in, and at least one player out of position 😉

[beatlesaint]

2 hours ago, Galway saint said:

Wonder what random changes we will see tonight 

Will go for Manning in place of Fraser, Archer for Armstrong and Sugawara for KWP

He won’t drop Armstrong, he kept on about how he shouldn’t of done it last time

[sfc4prem]

29 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fuck it. Took the day off - it’s my birthday after all, been in the pub since 1, warming up nicely. Bit of Chinese in a bit before heading to the ground. 
Low expectations, limited hope but it’s football… and it can be a funny old game at times. 
Up the fucking Saints!

Oh, stick to the Harveys Best, the rest is piss. 

Happy birthday pal.

 

Hope the boys put in a good shift for you and you get a nice three points as a surprise present.

[Doctoroncall]

43 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fuck it. Took the day off - it’s my birthday after all, been in the pub since 1, warming up nicely. Bit of Chinese in a bit before heading to the ground. 
Low expectations, limited hope but it’s football… and it can be a funny old game at times. 
Up the fucking Saints!

Oh, stick to the Harveys Best, the rest is piss. 

Happy Birthday, hope you and your friends have a fantastic time at the football with a Saints win. 

[Totton Saint]

55 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

Nonsense! Not random enough.

I expect to see Taylor back out of nowhere, Wood or Edwards in, and at least one player out of position 😉

What about Lumley?

[NewYorkSaint]

I actually think the necessary tweak to our playing style isn't that radical. Players HAVE to have permission to occasionally look for the long ball out of defense. w/o that we invite overwhelming and unrelenting press.  It's clear from McCarthy's reckless pass last w/e that the players are not fully clear on how to juggle being brave AND playing quickly AND having permission to clear long when needed. 

I personally love Russball for the most part.  Unlike with Nathan Jones or Claude Puel or Mark Hughes, there at least is a clearly argued for plan.  The logic of retaining possession as long as you can when you have it makes a lot of sense provided you eventually do something positive with it.  Often it's when the press is most intense that we have our best chances.  Because when we break the press, -- and we often do -- there's a lot of space in midfield and we can move forward at pace. Meanwhile the consequences of hoofing it long almost always gives up possession, and against Liverpool often led to attacks just as dangerous as those from losing possession near our penalty area.  

So I get the logic for Russball. I just think it has to escape from being too predictable. When the opposition know we'll always play short, the press gets stepped up until we crack. We need to fine-tune our response to that.

With Che Adams we had a great front man to receive the long ball out and do something with it. There were strong signs against Liverpool that Tall Paul cd do the same. I really hope he's fit to play today, because I think we need that.   He did enough last week to encourage Martin to build a strategy around him... both for the out-ball, and then also for earlier attempts at crossing to him in the box. 

I guess SR will stick w RM through December. If we haven't picked up a couple of good results by the end of the month, he'll be out.  But I'm still holding out hope this will all start to click into place just in time.......  I feel like I'm about the only person here trying to hold onto hope.  I still see a scenario where this turns, and where in a couple months' time we're all breathing a sigh of relief and congratulating the board on bravely doubling down on bravery.

I agree that we will PROBABLY lose today. But I think the odds of a surprise Saints win are a better than the 7-1 the bookies have against us currently. If were I allowed to legally bet here in the US, I'd do it, provided TP playing.   Not advice. Just an opinion.    

 

 

Edited 29 November, 2024 by NewYorkSaint

[Maury Dyer]

How can the club, or it's owners, expect fans to keep turning up to be laughed at week after week ??.

What is their thinking. Sick of it now.