Relegation sales/ Leavers

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Hard to escape the feeling that they recruited in the summer with one eye on the following season in the championship, particularly with Edwards and Wood who never play. Whilst that messes up this season, it does give us plenty of decent championship options and as others have said, we are unlikely to see a mass exodus next season as many of the players won't be wanted by other teams that could afford them. The likes of Armstrong, Smallbone, Aribo, Bednarek, Archer and Downes if he stays are all proven championship performers and even someone like Bereton Diaz may see an upturn in a lower league.   

It certainly looks that way. Edwards and Wood ready made replacement for THB when he goes in the summer. Charlie Taylor bizarrely not getting a game at the moment but decent in the championship, along with Manning and Suga and that's the defence sorted. Breaton-Diaz and Archer will be decent options up front along with Armstrong who is one of those players good in the championship but not quite good enough for the premier league. Midfield Charles will come back better so can come in if we lose Downes, Smallbone is okay at that level and we've still got Frazer, Edozie, who can do a job there. Obviously the concern is Ramsdale will probably go and Calamity Baz will be back as our first choice glovesman.

Inevitably THB, Fernandes and Dibbing will leave for big money but looks like we already have the replacements baring one or two positions.

Looking forward to our 2025/26 championship title challenge. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Ramsdale, THB, Fernandes, Downes, Dibling all capable of going for good value. KWP, Lumley and Lallaña on their way at end of contract.
Les and Cornet returning to parent club.
SR happy to get the amortisation rate for TP, Sule and ABK.
Stewart closer to a mutual contract termination.
Club no doubt happy to listen to offers for anyone else such as Bedders, Taylor, Suga, Charles and the likes of Archer, BBD

Another summer in transition (unlike what the side manages to do effectively week to week), where we recruit to plug gaps, not just from the above, but from previous windows. SR will hopefully have pinned their promotion hopes on a particular manager well before then, so we can get a head start.

[spyinthesky]

Concern to me is that we will still have a weaker squad than the two sides that are relegated with us and the likelihood is that there will be fairly strong and settled Championship teams who just miss out on promotion plus the expectation that Wrexham and Birmingham will be promoted with strong support and money behind them.
Still hopefully we will win more than we lose

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

It certainly looks that way. Edwards and Wood ready made replacement for THB when he goes in the summer. Charlie Taylor bizarrely not getting a game at the moment but decent in the championship, along with Manning and Suga and that's the defence sorted. Breaton-Diaz and Archer will be decent options up front along with Armstrong who is one of those players good in the championship but not quite good enough for the premier league. Midfield Charles will come back better so can come in if we lose Downes, Smallbone is okay at that level and we've still got Frazer, Edozie, who can do a job there. Obviously the concern is Ramsdale will probably go and Calamity Baz will be back as our first choice glovesman.

Inevitably THB, Fernandes and Dibbing will leave for big money but looks like we already have the replacements baring one or two positions.

Looking forward to our 2025/26 championship title challenge. 

Can't happen mate - I've been ridiculed over the last 6 months saying that's what we're doing.

[Farmer Saint]

43 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Ramsdale, THB, Fernandes, Downes, Dibling all capable of going for good value. KWP, Lumley and Lallaña on their way at end of contract.
Les and Cornet returning to parent club.
SR happy to get the amortisation rate for TP, Sule and ABK.
Stewart closer to a mutual contract termination.
Club no doubt happy to listen to offers for anyone else such as Bedders, Taylor, Suga, Charles and the likes of Archer, BBD

Another summer in transition (unlike what the side manages to do effectively week to week), where we recruit to plug gaps, not just from the above, but from previous windows. SR will hopefully have pinned their promotion hopes on a particular manager well before then, so we can get a head start.

Downes won't go to the PL I wouldn't have thought - he's been poor this season and didn't get on well at Wet Spam - he's a very good Championship player but that's it.

[Bob60]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Rarely in a back 5 TBF. Very few teams (and I can't think of any in the Prem) play a back 5 with fullbacks and not wingbacks.

We don't have to play five at the back, we could try a solid four. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Bob60 said:

We don't have to play five at the back, we could try a solid four. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Yeah, we could, but our defence is so bad we need that extra man. We also then have to get width another way, and our wide players are Fraser, Sulemana, Cornet...hmmm. We're better through the middle, and that's why it makes more sense that we use our wingbacks (who actually are good going forwards) in a back 5.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

But it was McCarthy who was the biggest fuck up and the reason we conceded there.

A big reason but Salah had a clear run on goal due to open defending. And he wasn’t the first.

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A big reason but Salah had a clear run on goal due to open defending. And he wasn’t the first.

This is mad - that goal was McCarthy's fault, 95%. It's ridiculous to pin blame like this on Martin when you have actual ammo. What next, he told Suga to angle his body a certain way but it ended up with him handballing it?

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

This is mad - that goal was McCarthy's fault, 95%. It's ridiculous to pin blame like this on Martin when you have actual ammo. What next, he told Suga to angle his body a certain way but it ended up with him handballing it?

You have to realise that not everything in life is black and white. 

Martin cannot organise a defence. His record at previous clubs is just as bad as at ours.  An organised defence consists of many layers. If Salah is marked properly then McCarthy doesn’t get a chance to run out of the way. 

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You have to realise that not everything in life is black and white. 

Martin cannot organise a defence. His record at previous clubs is just as bad as at ours.  An organised defence consists of many layers. If Salah is marked properly then McCarthy doesn’t get a chance to run out of the way. 

I am well aware of that, thank you. I think we'll have to agree to disagree here as although the defence is and has always been an issue, I don't think that's the issue here.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It matters not who goes - whoever’s left gets to be told how to lose a game of football by Russ. Some will ignore him, most like Manning and Stephens will not. I’m fearful of our next term in the Championship…the summer will not be long enough to sort out this shitshow.

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It matters not who goes - whoever’s left gets to be told how to lose a game of football by Russ. Some will ignore him, most like Manning and Stephens will not. I’m fearful of our next term in the Championship…the summer will not be long enough to sort out this shitshow.

Yet it was last time?

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yet it was last time?

Are you saying that the conditions of the last relegation are exactly the same? I’ll save you the trouble - they’re not.

[Farmer Saint]

9 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Are you saying that the conditions of the last relegation are exactly the same? I’ll save you the trouble - they’re not.

No, I think we'll have a better team if we go down this time, and if Martin by some miracle is still here, the team will already know his football - we should be in a better position overall.

Edited 26 November, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

No, I think we'll have a better team if we go down this time, and if Martin by some miracle is still here, the team will already know his football - we should be in a better position overall.

Oh God! Not another season of this garbage.

And please don’t go on again about last season. That is no longer relevant.

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Oh God! Not another season of this garbage.

And please don’t go on again about last season. That is no longer relevant.

Why is this season relevant but not last season, if we’re talking about the Championship? It won’t be another season of ‘this garbage’, we’ll be playing teams like Stoke and Millwall instead of Brighton and Liverpool. Russ and the players who are likely to stay next season are more than capable of another promotion.

[Saint Fan CaM]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Why is this season relevant but not last season, if we’re talking about the Championship? It won’t be another season of ‘this garbage’, we’ll be playing teams like Stoke and Millwall instead of Brighton and Liverpool. Russ and the players who are likely to stay next season are more than capable of another promotion.

Even if all that were true, the one thing the team didn’t have to deal with in the last Championship run was an unprecedented number of continual losses (in any English league) and being part of a squad that writes itself into the history books for ALL the wrong reasons. Squads tend to need to be re-built entirely to get over such ‘trauma’. Managers usually don’t survive such devastatingly shit seasons such as this one is shaping up to be. 

What’s Russ going to say? “Don’t worry lads, the better players I favoured playing were actually no so great - you guys that are left are not so good, but we’ll storm the Championship together, [ahem, before I ditch you for better players if we get promoted]”. It’s another recipe for disaster and one I’d wager that will see us fall short of the auto’s and possibly even the playoffs.

[Saint Fan CaM]

18 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Why is this season relevant but not last season, if we’re talking about the Championship? It won’t be another season of ‘this garbage’, we’ll be playing teams like Stoke and Millwall instead of Brighton and Liverpool. Russ and the players who are likely to stay next season are more than capable of another promotion.

Oh, and I bet if Russ somehow manages to get a more tempting offer from another club, he’ll be off quicker than when he gets a BJ from Lucy.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Why is this season relevant but not last season, if we’re talking about the Championship? It won’t be another season of ‘this garbage’, we’ll be playing teams like Stoke and Millwall instead of Brighton and Liverpool. Russ and the players who are likely to stay next season are more than capable of another promotion.

By ‘this garbage’ I was referring to the style of football. And why would you think that promotion was likely? We scraped through last time but that’s no guarantee of future success.

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Oh God! Not another season of this garbage.

And please don’t go on again about last season. That is no longer relevant.

But why isn't it? Is every season irrelevant when forecasting future performance then?

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

But why isn't it? Is every season irrelevant when forecasting future performance then?

Only the obvious forecasting, the one where we know we will concede 60+ goals with Martin.

[Farmer Saint]

35 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Only the obvious forecasting, the one where we know we will concede 60+ goals with Martin.

And that is a good example of it. But the other example is that we were the 2nd highest scorer with the most shots of any team in the league.

[tdmickey3]

23 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

And that is a good example of it. But the other example is that we were the 2nd highest scorer with the most shots of any team in the league.

Yes but because of the goals conceded we didn't get autos

[Bob60]

On 25/11/2024 at 19:59, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, we could, but our defence is so bad we need that extra man. We also then have to get width another way, and our wide players are Fraser, Sulemana, Cornet...hmmm. We're better through the middle, and that's why it makes more sense that we use our wingbacks (who actually are good going forwards) in a back 5.

So we are so bad at the back we let them be exposed on the wings time after time?

I watched the Newcastle v wet spam game last night, both played a back four, neither had a problem creating chances and when they lost the ball the fullbacks were defending. So it is possible.

Edited 26 November, 2024 by Bob60

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yes but because of the goals conceded we didn't get autos

Absolutely - I'm not arguing with you here.

[Farmer Saint]

5 hours ago, Bob60 said:

So we are so bad at the back we let them be exposed on the wings time after time?

I watched the Newcastle v wet spam game last night, both played a back four, neither had a problem creating chances and when they lost the ball the fullbacks were defending. So it is possible.

Both have significantly better players than we do though. Our best player last season couldn't get anywhere near the West Ham team. The gulf is huge.

[Whitey Grandad]

13 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

But why isn't it? Is every season irrelevant when forecasting future performance then?

Times change, and we change with them.

[Bob60]

9 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Both have significantly better players than we do though. Our best player last season couldn't get anywhere near the West Ham team. The gulf is huge.

My point is that our main issue is conceding too many goals. We need to look at different ways of solving this. 

What we are currently doing is not working. These players playing a system that suits them more may help with that. This manager seems incapable of seeing that.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Bob60 said:

My point is that our main issue is conceding too many goals. We need to look at different ways of solving this. 

What we are currently doing is not working. These players playing a system that suits them more may help with that. This manager seems incapable of seeing that.

Yeah, it may do, but as we know from previous seasons (before Martin) McCarthy, Bednarek and Stephens have always been very mistake prone players.

Edited 27 November, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Bob60]

23 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, it may do, but as we know from previous seasons (before Martin) McCarthy, Bednarek and Stephens have always been very mistake prone players.

So what would you do then, just leave it at it is and get all the fans to cross their fingers?

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Bob60 said:

So what would you do then, just leave it at it is and get all the fans to cross their fingers?

No, and I've never said that. We need a new Manager, full stop. However, not everything is on him, and those same players will still make boneheaded decisions and stupid mistakes - like goals 2 & 3 against Liverpool.

Edited 27 November, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Doctoroncall]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, it may do, but as we know from previous seasons (before Martin) McCarthy, Bednarek and Stephens have always been very mistake prone players.

Which is fair enough until you realise McCarthy and Bednarek have signed new deals. This is incongruent to how SR and RM want to play football. Why (re)sign players that perform worse under these circumstances?   
 

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

Which is fair enough until you realise McCarthy and Bednarek have signed new deals. This is incongruent to how SR and RM want to play football. Why (re)sign players that perform worse under these circumstances?   
 

Don't disagree at all with that. They're gash and should never have been given new contracts (maybe Bednarek to at least give him some resale value).

[die Mannyschaft]

Ramsdale, THB, Fernandes, Downes,

Dibling could go in Jan window. Wouldn't put ir past Liverhampton, Man u or Arsenal bid for £40m

we are a selling team and pay too much for players so books never balance. 

[rooney]

12 hours ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Ramsdale, THB, Fernandes, Downes,

Dibling could go in Jan window. Wouldn't put ir past Liverhampton, Man u or Arsenal bid for £40m

we are a selling team and pay too much for players so books never balance. 

Not sure there would be many in for Downes as he gives the ball away more than Hojberg did when he was here. Not a patch on JWP.

[Farmer Saint]

14 hours ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Ramsdale, THB, Fernandes, Downes,

Dibling could go in Jan window. Wouldn't put ir past Liverhampton, Man u or Arsenal bid for £40m

we are a selling team and pay too much for players so books never balance. 

Downes is not a PL player in my opinion.

[tdmickey3]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Downes is not a PL player in my opinion.

Martin`s coaching/style is making all of them look non PL players

[Bob60]

21 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

No, and I've never said that. We need a new Manager, full stop. However, not everything is on him, and those same players will still make boneheaded decisions and stupid mistakes - like goals 2 & 3 against Liverpool.

I do agree it's not all on him but his job is to set the team up in the best way, that includes stopping goals. 

I still think his set up of the team contributed a lot to the second goal and think it's harsh on Suga to call it boneheaded or stupid for the third.

Edited 28 November, 2024 by Bob60

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Martin`s coaching/style is making all of them look non PL players

He's only ever looked good under Martin TBF - he is a system player and fits into Martin's system perfectly. It's why he got his move to Wet Spam, it just turns out he's just not a PL player.

[Whitey Grandad]

21 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

No, and I've never said that. We need a new Manager, full stop. However, not everything is on him, and those same players will still make boneheaded decisions and stupid mistakes - like goals 2 & 3 against Liverpool.

Martin is responsible for the system that makes such mistakes more likely and more catastrophic when they inevitably occur.

A related if not directly comparable situation occurs in Employment Law where it’s something known as the Principle of Vicarious Liability.

 

[Rebel]

I think its pretty much a foregone conclusion that Ramsdale, Harwood-Bellis, Fernandes and Dibling will be sold when we go down.  If we are lucky that will bring in a lot of money, maybe the best part of £100M.

KWP will be off in January or leave on a free in the Summer.

Lumley, Lallana and Stephens will all be out of contract in the Summer.

Lesley Ugochokwu and Maxwell Cornet's loans will finally come to and end - that's if we can't send them back in January.

Paul Onuachu, Bella-Kotchap and Kamaldeen Sulemana will probably leave on loan to buys in January - and if not then certainly in the summer.

We'll probably send Ross Stewart on loan to Scotland for the final year of his contract to get rid of him and hopefully find someone who will take Bereton-Diaz off our hands on loan at least.

I think we will also look to reduce our wage bill and get rid of the highest earners so it could mean players like Jan Bednarek, Joe Aribo and Adam Armstrong are moved on. Aribo will only have a year left on his contract so I think he will definitely leave and I am not sure Bednarek will want to play in the Championship for another season. 

Hopefully that means we will have enough money to pay-off the manager and rebuild the squad for automatic promotion.

Its a sad indictment of Sports Repubic's ownership and management of the club that is what we are looking at. I just hope they are learning from their many mistakes!

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Rebel said:

I think its pretty much a foregone conclusion that Ramsdale, Harwood-Bellis, Fernandes and Dibling will be sold when we go down.  If we are lucky that will bring in a lot of money, maybe the best part of £100M.

KWP will be off in January or leave on a free in the Summer.

Lumley, Lallana and Stephens will all be out of contract in the Summer.

Lesley Ugochokwu and Maxwell Cornet's loans will finally come to and end - that's if we can't send them back in January.

Paul Onuachu, Bella-Kotchap and Kamaldeen Sulemana will probably leave on loan to buys in January - and if not then certainly in the summer.

We'll probably send Ross Stewart on loan to Scotland for the final year of his contract to get rid of him and hopefully find someone who will take Bereton-Diaz off our hands on loan at least.

I think we will also look to reduce our wage bill and get rid of the highest earners so it could mean players like Jan Bednarek, Joe Aribo and Adam Armstrong are moved on. Aribo will only have a year left on his contract so I think he will definitely leave and I am not sure Bednarek will want to play in the Championship for another season. 

Hopefully that means we will have enough money to pay-off the manager and rebuild the squad for automatic promotion.

Its a sad indictment of Sports Repubic's ownership and management of the club that is what we are looking at. I just hope they are learning from their many mistakes!

So who will be left? Will we have enough to make a team?

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Rebel said:

I think its pretty much a foregone conclusion that Ramsdale, Harwood-Bellis, Fernandes and Dibling will be sold when we go down.  If we are lucky that will bring in a lot of money, maybe the best part of £100M.

KWP will be off in January or leave on a free in the Summer.

Lumley, Lallana and Stephens will all be out of contract in the Summer.

Lesley Ugochokwu and Maxwell Cornet's loans will finally come to and end - that's if we can't send them back in January.

Paul Onuachu, Bella-Kotchap and Kamaldeen Sulemana will probably leave on loan to buys in January - and if not then certainly in the summer.

We'll probably send Ross Stewart on loan to Scotland for the final year of his contract to get rid of him and hopefully find someone who will take Bereton-Diaz off our hands on loan at least.

I think we will also look to reduce our wage bill and get rid of the highest earners so it could mean players like Jan Bednarek, Joe Aribo and Adam Armstrong are moved on. Aribo will only have a year left on his contract so I think he will definitely leave and I am not sure Bednarek will want to play in the Championship for another season. 

Hopefully that means we will have enough money to pay-off the manager and rebuild the squad for automatic promotion.

Its a sad indictment of Sports Repubic's ownership and management of the club that is what we are looking at. I just hope they are learning from their many mistakes!

Most of what you say is right but Bereton-Diaz is a decent goalscorer in the championship, he is clearly no where as bad as some on here make out also did well at Sheffield United. He's probably much like Adam Armstrong, not good enough for the premier league but decent in the championship. With him, Archer and Armstrong that's as good a front 3 options as we can hope for. Also got Edozie to come back from loan who is also a decent championship player, add a right winger/forward type to cover or compete with Armstrong and that's a decent championship stike force.

 

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

He's only ever looked good under Martin TBF - he is a system player and fits into Martin's system perfectly. It's why he got his move to Wet Spam, it just turns out he's just not a PL player.

All in you opinion of course 

[Farmer Saint]

18 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

All in you opinion of course 

Well, yes, but before he joined Swansea he was bang average in the Championship and then decent in League 1 for Ipswich. Swansea then paid £1.5m for him and a great season under Martin then got him picked up by West Ham for £12m. He then didn't do anything at West Ham and came to us on loan. It is my opinion, but it would be odd if anyone said anything different tbh because I don't think he's really looked good for anyone else, outside of L1.

Edited 28 November, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Doctoroncall]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Well, yes, but before he joined Swansea he was bang average in the Championship and then decent in League 1 for Ipswich. Swansea then paid £1.5m for him and a great season under Martin then got him picked up by West Ham for £12m. He then didn't do anything at West Ham and came to us on loan. It is my opinion, but it would be odd if anyone said anything different tbh because I don't think he's really looked good for anyone else, outside of L1.

The trouble is the position he plays is the linchpin of the system. He needs to be at the top of his game for it to work better and equally having others that help out. Unfortunately he hasn’t the skill set to do that every game with differing opponents posing different challenges, but it’s a bit unfair to say he’s not a PL level player when most of the players around him do not have the ability required to play this system, as has been shown with so many turnovers and the infamous xG. 

[S-Clarke]

On 25/11/2024 at 07:42, Saint_clark said:

How many first team squad players did we lose last time? I always think these lists of players leaving look unrealistically extensive, relegated clubs rarely sell the majority of their squad. 

Perraud, Salisu, DCC, ABK, Lyanco, JWP, Tella, Lavia, Tino, Moussa, Orsic (lol), Onuachu, Elyonoussi, Diallo, Theo  - some loans, some free's, some perms. But quite a big shift there. Big money came from the Lavia, Tella, JWP, Tino sales - the rest were loose change really.

This time round we'll probably lose THB, Dibling, Fernandes, Ramsdale, Bednarek - that's where the income will be generated. Maybe around £100m+ there (most from Dibling if we sort the contract out). I can see interest in Downes and Suguwara as well. Obviously KWP will be a gone for 0.

We'd be left with a core of Bazunu, Wood, Stephens, Manning, Bree, Aribo, Smallbone, Fraser, Archer, BBD, Armstrong, Downes, Charles. Some decent players in there, but overall a pretty bog-standard Champ squad I'd suggest. Would need some big investment to be competitive at the top end.

Edited 28 November, 2024 by S-Clarke