Saints 2-3 Liverpool - Match Thread

[Lighthouse]

Cant really fault the team too much for that. It was a decent enough performance overall but ultimately individual errors have cost us a result against comfortably the league’s best side. McC is our third choice keeper for a reason, Downes is far from the finished article and Suga…. I really want to like the guy but he just serves up clangers with too much regularity.

[Oldandtired]

41 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Probably because the previous time we pushed up they played a ball over the top and scored their second goal.

… after fannying about the Russballsup way and gifting them the first.

[Jack]

Against good teams we play ok, concede shit goals and ultimately lose.
 

Against shit sides we play shit, concede shit goals and ultimately lose. 

So frustrating. We look solid enough defending in that low block. And look decent at times playing forward on the break. We look absolutely fucking abysmal playing possession football in our own half and that’s why we lose every week. 

[Morse]

31 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Martin: “It's my fault because we thought we would have a chance on transition play. We have to keep learning and helping the players through it as much as we can. Playing out is what got us to the Premier League and I'm really proud of the players.” #saintsfc [sky]

He is a gift to every manager who's team we play.  No need for them to be cautious and work out what we'll do, they know. Well play out from the back. All they need to do is keep a high line and put pressure on, and wait for the inevitable individual errors. I think it was Bristol City last season who first worked us out, now it's just too easy for whoever we play.

[Miltonaggro]

14 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I think you know what I mean, we haven’t been embarrassed by them. Done well in the sense no unwelcome records were threatened. Whereas we have been largely terrible against the also rans 

As we were walking away from the ground today my brother made exactly this point. We’ve been here before and if we had seven to ten points on the board currently it would have been one of the ‘unlucky, we gave them a scare’ days. But this is meaningless if you can’t get results against the sides in the lower half. Back to Strachan’s definition of propaganda football. The way Martin and co act you’d think saints fans had never seen their sides take points off the big six at home. Some of us have, many times. 

Edited 25 November, 2024 by Miltonaggro

[lambtiss]

42 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Martin: “It's my fault because we thought we would have a chance on transition play. We have to keep learning and helping the players through it as much as we can. Playing out is what got us to the Premier League and I'm really proud of the players.” #saintsfc [sky]

If David Brent was a football manager... 

[Hemp]

Just got back from the game. It is clear to me that our players are as not as bad as the league table suggests. The problem is clear as day and that is the managers tactics. The possession obsession 🤷

Our players are drilled to keep the ball even when under extreme pressing from our opponents  and so the mistakes are inevitable. As long as martin is here it seems nothing will change and we will keep conceding these ridiculous goals.

Such a shame that SR cant see what we can all see. We are good enough to stay up but only with a manager who can adapt to whats in front of him.

 

 

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

So how does this corruption manifest? Who makes the decision about who is to be wronged? Who is then told to wrong them, and by what means? Does each ref have a list in their pocket with big green ticks next to some teams and huge red crosses next to others? Are they disciplined at clandestine liaisons in abandoned and derelict buildings in the dark of night by men in black suits and dark glasses should they be deemed to have not been sufficiently unfavourable to those clubs being conspired against? And no-one has ever blown the whistle on this because all refs fear that if they speak up they will one day be taking a walk by a canal with their loved ones only for a man carrying a suspicious bouquet of lilies to 'pop a cap in his ass' via a cunningly concealed silenced P99?

The corruption lies in the bias shown towards the top teams. There is so much spotlight, punditry (or horseshittery if you like), discussion, navel searching directed to the top teams that even the smallest puff of a fart given against these teams will cause huge waves in the media. So refs, being almost human so I’m told, don’t like to give decisions against these teams for fear of rocking the boat…whereas decisions, good or bad, against the little teams go almost unnoticed.

 

Edited 24 November, 2024 by Oldandtired

[saintant]

Doesn't count for much but our move for the goal scored by Fernandes was the pick of the game. We completely gift wrapped Liverpool's first two goals and conceded a stupid penalty although Sugawara could be considered a little unlucky. This habit of conceding ridiculous goals must stop but clearly Russell has no idea how.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Oldandtired said:

The corruption lies in the bias shown towards the top teams. There is so much spotlight, punditry (or horseshittery if you like), discussion, navel searching directed to the top teams that even the smallest puff of a fart will cause huge waves in the media. So refs, being almost human so I’m told don’t like to give decisions against these teams for fear of rocking the boat…whereas decisions, good or bad, against the little teams go almost unnoticed.

 

Shame we couldn't have David Coote as ref today, he allegedly hates Liverpool.

[bugenhagen]

4 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

If David Brent was a football manager... 

I think he might be...

[Mr X]

Sports republic have made sooo many decisions wrong at the club....I don't get how they can possibly justify keeping Martin on.... Guess they will trot out the compensation line and that Martin is part of the bigger picture! 

More to the point they don't communicate to the fans their intentions either way! 

Edited 24 November, 2024 by Mr X

[Disco Stu]

6 minutes ago, Hemp said:

Just got back from the game. It is clear to me that our players are as not as bad as the league table suggests. The problem is clear as day and that is the managers tactics. The possession obsession 🤷

Our players are drilled to keep the ball even when under extreme pressing from our opponents  and so the mistakes are inevitable. As long as martin is here it seems nothing will change and we will keep conceding these ridiculous goals.

Such a shame that SR cant see what we can all see. We are good enough to stay up but only with a manager who can adapt to whats in front of him.

 

 

We might have been but Russell has already inflicted too much damage. We were good enough had we identified the problem early but we're not good enough to get 35/36 points in 26 games.

Edited 24 November, 2024 by Disco Stu

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Hemp said:

🤷

 

Such a shame that SR cant see what we can all see.

I think they can see it, but they have painted themselves into a corner and are unwilling to admit their mistakes.

[OttawaSaint]

9 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

As we were waking away from ground my brother made exactly this point. We’ve been here before and if we had seven to ten points on the board currently it would have been one of the ‘unlucky, we gave them a scare’ days. But this is meaningless if you can’t get results against the sides in the lower half. Back to Strachan’s definition of propaganda football. The way Martin and co act you’d think saints fans had never seen their sides take points off the big six at home. Some of us have, many times. 

Great post. RM is a cunt with his "just happy to be here" attitude. 

[trousers]

Was keeping one eye on the match whilst doing an all day decorating stint (living the dream...) so haven't read anyone else's reactions yet, but if that game doesn't finally lay to rest the Saintsweb contrarian fallacy that a higher calibre manager couldn't get a better tune out of these players then I'm Fanny Craddock. 

If the likes of Koeman or Pochettino were in the home dugout with those same players against an off-the-boil Liverpool side then we get something out of the game. Playing Russ Martin's tactics, we don't. It really is as simple as that to my mind. 

Edited 24 November, 2024 by trousers

[swingworkstheoracle]

Dibling has so much quality

but his fitness levels are disgraceful

[saintant]

1 minute ago, swingworkstheoracle said:

Dibling has so much quality

but his fitness levels are disgraceful

Can only blame the coaches for that with all the equipment and assessment/measuring available today. Lazy coaching if your squad is not as fit as every other in the league. No excuses.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, swingworkstheoracle said:

Dibling has so much quality

but his fitness levels are disgraceful

He’s 18 in we’re basically relying on him to be our best creative player in every match. If we’re not careful he’ll be the next Livramento or Lavia.

[Dragon_man]

On the plus side, we scored 5 goals I suppose.

[Challenger]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

He’s 18 in we’re basically relying on him to be our best creative player in every match. If we’re not careful he’ll be the next Livramento or Lavia.

If SR can make a quick buck on him then that's success in their eyes. Obviously not interested in building anything near a competitive team with this loser of a manager.

[Lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, saintant said:

Doesn't count for much but our move for the goal scored by Fernandes was the pick of the game. We completely gift wrapped Liverpool's first two goals and conceded a stupid penalty although Sugawara could be considered a little unlucky. This habit of conceding ridiculous goals must stop but clearly Russell has no idea how.

You’re in for a very nasty surprise when Russell does eventually get the sack and players like McCarthy and Sugawara keep making mistakes.

[64saint]

10 minutes ago, swingworkstheoracle said:

Dibling has so much quality

but his fitness levels are disgraceful

18 years old , first full season !!!!  any half decent team would still be easing him in gradually, we can't because he's our best player.

[Convict Colony]

How many times does martin have to say "my fault" before he actually believes it.

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You’re in for a very nasty surprise when Russell does eventually get the sack and players like McCarthy and Sugawara keep making mistakes.

The point is a new manager is not going to submit these players to the same level of pressure which leads to many of these mistakes. Not everyone plays Russball. If you don't get that I'm afraid I can't help you.

[Mr X]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You’re in for a very nasty surprise when Russell does eventually get the sack and players like McCarthy and Sugawara keep making mistakes.

Every footballer makes mistakes but the point is we are 100% more likely to make them with our passing out in dangerous areas under pressure style 

[Miltonaggro]

17 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Great post. RM is a cunt with his "just happy to be here" attitude. 

Wish I didn’t have to post it mate. Fucking dire. 

[saintant]

Just now, Convict Colony said:

How many times does martin have to say "my fault" before he actually believes it.

Agree - he also says it in such a way to suggest that it's not his fault the players are not gifted enough to play his way. So it's a kind of backhanded way of accepting blame.

[Miltonaggro]

18 minutes ago, trousers said:

Was keeping one eye on the match whilst doing an all day decorating stint (living the dream...) so haven't read anyone else's reactions yet, but if that game doesn't finally lay to rest the Saintsweb contrarian fallacy that a higher calibre manager couldn't get a better tune out of these players then I'm Fanny Craddock. 

If the likes of Koeman or Pochettino were in the home dugout with those same players against an off-the-boil Liverpool side then we get something out of the game. Playing Russ Martin's tactics, we don't. It really is as simple as that to my mind. 

You put a side out to press and counter today, without the players you ‘love’ but aren’t up to it, I reckon it was three points. 

[Winnersaint]

20 minutes ago, trousers said:

Was keeping one eye on the match whilst doing an all day decorating stint (living the dream...) so haven't read anyone else's reactions yet, but if that game doesn't finally lay to rest the Saintsweb contrarian fallacy that a higher calibre manager couldn't get a better tune out of these players then I'm Fanny Craddock. 

If the likes of Koeman or Pochettino were in the home dugout with those same players against an off-the-boil Liverpool side then we get something out of the game. Playing Russ Martin's tactics, we don't. It really is as simple as that to my mind. 

And I daresay with Claude Puel in there as well.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Every footballer makes mistakes but the point is we are 100% more likely to make them with our passing out in dangerous areas under pressure style 

What kind of passing out from the back was there in the second and third goals we conceded? Even the first is on McC for very poor decision making and Downes, who miss kicked whilst trying to boot it long up the pitch.

[Winnersaint]

Mohamed Salah scored twice to win a chaotic game where Southampton held the lead only for errors to cost them

This is what the Guardian online thinks. Can't argue with that!

[Toussaint]

25 minutes ago, swingworkstheoracle said:

Dibling has so much quality

but his fitness levels are disgraceful

He’s only a baby, still developing, still growing 

[Mr X]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What kind of passing out from the back was there in the second and third goals we conceded? Even the first is on McC for very poor decision making and Downes, who miss kicked whilst trying to boot it long up the pitch.

Where did I say every goal conceded today was down to passing out from the back just making the point that it is generally that that causes us the most misery in games and usually results in a goal conceded as it has today

[Toussaint]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

Agree - he also says it in such a way to suggest that it's not his fault the players are not gifted enough to play his way. So it's a kind of backhanded way of accepting blame.

Correction. A backhanded way of deflecting blame

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What kind of passing out from the back was there in the second and third goals we conceded? Even the first is on McC for very poor decision making and Downes, who miss kicked whilst trying to boot it long up the pitch.

Isn't the first goal a by product of passing it out? If McCarthy was under instructions to get rid of the ball as soon as he could, thats down to Martin. 

[Lighthouse]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Isn't the first goal a by product of passing it out? If McCarthy was under instructions to get rid of the ball as soon as he could, thats down to Martin. 

I can't recall seeing Ramsdale or Bazunu playing that ball and it's certainly not one that any manager would have wanted him to play. Yes we play out from the back but that ball to Fernandes was never on. Even so, we didn't lose the ball and Downes had a perfectly good oportunity to deal with it, until he smacked it straight at Szobozs... the Hungarian fellar, trying to go long down the pitch. The first goal was a McCarthy and Downes mistake. Whatever his instructions were, McC shouldn't have played that.

Even in spite of that moment, we were 2-1 up after 65 minutes. We were half an hour from winning. Playing out from the back had zero to do with what happened from there. Zero.

[Cabrone]

The sad thing is we'll never know if this team was good enough to survive, RM isn't giving them the slightest chance to prove it.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I can't recall seeing Ramsdale or Bazunu playing that ball and it's certainly not one that any manager would have wanted him to play. Yes we play out from the back but that ball to Fernandes was never on. Even so, we didn't lose the ball and Downes had a perfectly good oportunity to deal with it, until he smacked it straight at Szobozs... the Hungarian fellar, trying to go long down the pitch. The first goal was a McCarthy and Downes mistake. Whatever his instructions were, McC shouldn't have played that.

Even in spite of that moment, we were 2-1 up after 65 minutes. We were half an hour from winning. Playing out from the back had zero to do with what happened from there. Zero.

But it had everything to do with how we got there.

[Farmer Saint]

11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What kind of passing out from the back was there in the second and third goals we conceded? Even the first is on McC for very poor decision making and Downes, who miss kicked whilst trying to boot it long up the pitch.

There is a weird obsession with making EVERYTHING Russ's fault. We get it, he's not learning and he should probably go, but at the same time we conceded 3 goals today and each one was because our players are not good enough.

Goal 1: Shit underarm pass to the wrong player, poor pass back by Fernandes and a Sunday League quality misquick from Downes.

Goal 2: Long ball up, McCarthy in no-mans land.

Goal 3: Player misjudged the flight of the ball.

I think he should go, and he has done more than enough to earn himself the sack this year, but don't just create reasons for him to go to make you feel better. There are 3 issues with the club and the reasons that we are going down are, in particular order:

- The ownership not sacking Martin

- Martin not adapting his philosophy as much as he needs to

- The players being not PL quality

- PSR not allowing us to invest in said PL quality players

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I can't recall seeing Ramsdale or Bazunu playing that ball and it's certainly not one that any manager would have wanted him to play. Yes we play out from the back but that ball to Fernandes was never on. Even so, we didn't lose the ball and Downes had a perfectly good oportunity to deal with it, until he smacked it straight at Szobozs... the Hungarian fellar, trying to go long down the pitch. The first goal was a McCarthy and Downes mistake. Whatever his instructions were, McC shouldn't have played that.

Even in spite of that moment, we were 2-1 up after 65 minutes. We were half an hour from winning. Playing out from the back had zero to do with what happened from there. Zero.

Am not so confident as you are that McCarthy wasn't acting upon instructions from Martin. 

[Farmer Saint]

12 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Isn't the first goal a by product of passing it out? If McCarthy was under instructions to get rid of the ball as soon as he could, thats down to Martin. 

These are professional footballers, not fucking toddlers. They don't need to be told to not throw the ball into dangerous areas.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

These are professional footballers, not fucking toddlers. They don't need to be told to not throw the ball into dangerous areas.

No, they all need massive hugs and told by Martin how much he loves them. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

No, they all need massive hugs and told by Martin how much he loves them. 

Ok, so how did that contribute to today?

Edited 24 November, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[CB Fry]

On 19/11/2024 at 07:40, CB Fry said:

I forgot it is Sunday.

If we pull off the most spectacular upset victory of the season then you can thank the fact that I will be in a cinema for the entirety of it with the family watching Wicked.

 

Well if you like big screen musicals it was fantastic.

A lot of the story is about a con-artist who tricks lots of people that he has magical ways of doing things, but he is exposed as a fraud. Also a lot of the cast are a bunch of short-arses.

[Sheaf Saint]

21 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What kind of passing out from the back was there in the second and third goals we conceded? Even the first is on McC for very poor decision making and Downes, who miss kicked whilst trying to boot it long up the pitch.

He never used to do that though. In the past he would have kicked it long and probably out of play, but at least that doesn't put us under immediate pressure.

Rolling it short to a player inside our own box, when there are at least 4 opposition attackers bearing down on the defence is entirely a Russball thing.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Ok, so how did that contribute to today?

Don't think I said it did.

[david in sweden]

2 hours ago, coalman said:

"I'm proud of the boys. They were brave. We deserved more from the game. We just have to keep doing what we're doing."

....and end up getting the same result, I suppose?

[Oldandtired]

One thing I did mean to say which I found a bit incongruous about today was the fact that given the weather we've had they watered the pitch at halftime.

[Dragon_man]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He never used to do that though. In the past he would have kicked it long and probably out of play, but at least that doesn't put us under immediate pressure.

Rolling it short to a player inside our own box, when there are at least 4 opposition attackers bearing down on the defence is entirely a Russball thing.

Aside form the goals we gave away, how many times did we do this? ... its a miracle we weren't punished more. So many times ...everyone in the stadium could see it coming (bar one of course).