Did Life Use to be Better? (Split)

[spyinthesky]

Our relatively comfortable life since the 1960's is likely to change for the worse going forward.
The conflicts in Ukraine, Asia, Middle East and even a re-run of the Falklands conflict will adversely affect our lives.
Once a relatively powerful country the UK has many economic challenges, along with a population that has become 'soft' with a significant number of 'newer' members of the population at least neutral in their view of the country.
There are also many who see the major challenge in the world is pollution/climate change.
Of course the UK is not alone in this, as Western Europe as a whole, faces similar challenges.
I think we are facing significant challenges going forward and a Trump Govt will add to the problems.
All this at a time following Saints is enough to want many of us to turn to drink, or religion!!!

[sadoldgit]

Turning to drink wouldn’t be too bad as most of us are probably there already. Not so sure about religion?

The problem is that when times are hard, those who are good at telling people what they want to hear get a bigger platform, a bigger audience and a bigger proportion of the votes. Trump and the rise of Farage are evidence of this currently but we have seen it so often before in history. Starmer will do well to heed what has just happened in the US and to take the threat of the Faragists more seriously. It helps that Badenoch is the new Tory leader as there will be little to choose between the Tories and Reform, but the liberal centrists need to show that they are listening to people’s concerns, get a grip of the issues that the far right try and exploit so that we don’t end up like the US.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Turning to drink wouldn’t be too bad as most of us are probably there already. Not so sure about religion?

The problem is that when times are hard, those who are good at telling people what they want to hear get a bigger platform, a bigger audience and a bigger proportion of the votes. Trump and the rise of Farage are evidence of this currently but we have seen it so often before in history. Starmer will do well to heed what has just happened in the US and to take the threat of the Faragists more seriously. It helps that Badenoch is the new Tory leader as there will be little to choose between the Tories and Reform, but the liberal centrists need to show that they are listening to people’s concerns, get a grip of the issues that the far right try and exploit so that we don’t end up like the US.

Times aren’t hard. Again you think they are partly because of your own failings and because as I’ve told you before happiness = expectation - reality 

Edited November 10 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Turning to drink wouldn’t be too bad as most of us are probably there already. Not so sure about religion?

The problem is that when times are hard, those who are good at telling people what they want to hear get a bigger platform, a bigger audience and a bigger proportion of the votes. Trump and the rise of Farage are evidence of this currently but we have seen it so often before in history. Starmer will do well to heed what has just happened in the US and to take the threat of the Faragists more seriously. It helps that Badenoch is the new Tory leader as there will be little to choose between the Tories and Reform, but the liberal centrists need to show that they are listening to people’s concerns, get a grip of the issues that the far right try and exploit so that we don’t end up like the US.

What a load of old pony. 

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

Times aren’t hard. Again you think they are partly because of your own failings and because as I’ve told you before happiness = expectation - reality 

Times are the best they have ever been in human history. If anyone thinks things are uniquely terrible at this point then they're either addicted to social media or completely taken in by certain media articles. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Times are the best they have ever been in human history. If anyone thinks things are uniquely terrible at this point then they're either addicted to social media or completely taken in by certain media articles. 

I dunno, it was much easier to buy a house back in the 90’s. I left uni with pretty much no debt and got a mortgage despite having zero deposit. Think many nowadays are getting a pretty shitty deal compared to my generation. 

[egg]

19 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I dunno, it was much easier to buy a house back in the 90’s. I left uni with pretty much no debt and got a mortgage despite having zero deposit. Think many nowadays are getting a pretty shitty deal compared to my generation. 

 

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Times are the best they have ever been in human history. If anyone thinks things are uniquely terrible at this point then they're either addicted to social media or completely taken in by certain media articles. 

In what way is the world, and our country, better now than it was in say the 90's boom? Financially we're worse off in this country, the world feels a more unstable and uncertain place, people are fatter, there's more cancer, sugar and chemicals seem to be the diet of the masses. I think we've regressed. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

 

In what way is the world, and our country, better now than it was in say the 90's boom? Financially we're worse off in this country, the world feels a more unstable and uncertain place, people are fatter, there's more cancer, sugar and chemicals seem to be the diet of the masses. I think we've regressed. 

Most of that is because there is more social media than the 90's.

All those things existed in the 90's, most people weren't aware because there was no such thing as doom scrolling.

 

Edited November 10 by Weston Super Saint

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Most of that is because there is more social media than the 90's.

All those things existed in the 90's, most people weren't aware because there was no such thing as doom scrolling.

 

Cancer rates were lower. Kids weren't going to school with cans of monster. How have things improved to make "times the best they have been in human history". They aren't. 

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

In what way is the world, and our country, better now than it was in say the 90's boom? Financially we're worse off in this country, the world feels a more unstable and uncertain place, people are fatter, there's more cancer, sugar and chemicals seem to be the diet of the masses. I think we've regressed. 

Financially we may well be worse off, especially where housing and living costs are concerned. I don’t really agree with the rest though. We may have the Ukraine war but the nineties had the Gulf War and the breakup of Yugoslavia. I don’t think there’s more cancer either, people are just living longer because fewer of us are dying from most other stuff. Jobs are safer, cars are safer, we’ve got vaccines for most of the world’s deadliest diseases, HIV medication has progressed enormously etc.

As for eating sh*t, well that’s a choice. I can make a decent meal from a freshly cooked piece of lean meat and 50p worth of fresh vegetables. That option was never taken away from us, some people just get into bad habits of easy, comfort food.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Financially we may well be worse off, especially where housing and living costs are concerned. I don’t really agree with the rest though. We may have the Ukraine war but the nineties had the Gulf War and the breakup of Yugoslavia. I don’t think there’s more cancer either, people are just living longer because fewer of us are dying from most other stuff. Jobs are safer, cars are safer, we’ve got vaccines for most of the world’s deadliest diseases, HIV medication has progressed enormously etc.

As for eating sh*t, well that’s a choice. I can make a decent meal from a freshly cooked piece of lean meat and 50p worth of fresh vegetables. That option was never taken away from us, some people just get into bad habits of easy, comfort food.

In the middle to late 90's, our economy was growing, the cold war had ended, the Bosnian war was over, the first gulf war over, and the world generally stable. We now have the middle east tinderbox, Russia/Ukraine, Myanmar, Yemen, and plenty of others. We didn't have 

HIV I'll grant you, but vaccines aren't a new thing, and if you're referring to COVID vaccine, that's just science addressing something new,  not societal growth.

Re eating shit, what you do isn't the issue. Whatever the reason, the reality is that the masses are putting sugar and ultra processed shit inside them. The creation of that shit, and it's mass consumption, is a massive retrograde step.

HIV getting sorted aside, you're not persuading me that the world and our country are better placed than the 90's boom years. It definitely isn't the best time ever to be alive - that's a nonsense statement. 

[hypochondriac]

39 minutes ago, egg said:

 

In what way is the world, and our country, better now than it was in say the 90's boom? Financially we're worse off in this country, the world feels a more unstable and uncertain place, people are fatter, there's more cancer, sugar and chemicals seem to be the diet of the masses. I think we've regressed. 

There's massively less people in extreme poverty and people are being lifted out of it at a rate of tens of millions a year.

https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty-in-brief

Look at the graph for extreme poverty as a percentage of the global population. The rate that has shrunk in the last thirty years is astounding. That is undeniably miles better from a global perspective than any other time in history including the 1990s.

People are living longer than ever before, technology advancements mean that we can communicate better than ever before, AI advancements mean there's a reasonable chance a lot of the problems of our time such as energy will be solved or improved. 

People choosing to eat crap food isn't an example of things being worse. It's entirely someone's choice whether they do that or not. 

Edited November 10 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

38 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Most of that is because there is more social media than the 90's.

All those things existed in the 90's, most people weren't aware because there was no such thing as doom scrolling.

 

100%. Humans aren't evolved to handle doom scrolling. It gives an unrealistically negative slant on everything and makes it hard for people to understand how great global progress has been. 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

In the middle to late 90's, our economy was growing, the cold war had ended, the Bosnian war was over, the first gulf war over, and the world generally stable. We now have the middle east tinderbox, Russia/Ukraine, Myanmar, Yemen, and plenty of others. We didn't have 

HIV I'll grant you, but vaccines aren't a new thing, and if you're referring to COVID vaccine, that's just science addressing something new,  not societal growth.

Re eating shit, what you do isn't the issue. Whatever the reason, the reality is that the masses are putting sugar and ultra processed shit inside them. The creation of that shit, and it's mass consumption, is a massive retrograde step.

HIV getting sorted aside, you're not persuading me that the world and our country are better placed than the 90's boom years. It definitely isn't the best time ever to be alive - that's a nonsense statement. 

The Middle East has always been a tinderbox, it’s not specific to any particular decade. The likes of Gadaffi and Hussein ruled with an iron fist, Saudi Arabia was far behind where it is now and Afghanistan was basically a massive, extremist jihadi training camp. You’ve moved the goalposts a bit to fit the very narrow window between the Yugoslav wars and 9/11, plus we didn’t have the Good Friday agreement until 1998.

My point RE: Food is that your own poor choices don’t constitute a worse world. The option is there for everyone on any budget to live and eat healthy.

My point on healthcare in general, rather than any specific vaccine or treatment, is that it has improved massively over the last 30 years in a whole multitude of areas I can’t even spell. Cancer and dementia are basically the two main eggs we need to crack now but treatments are much better than they were in the nineties. 16th century pirates never died from cancer, it doesn’t mean they had a better healthcare plan.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

There's massively less people in extreme poverty and people are being lifted out of it at a rate of tens of millions a year. People ar living longer than ever before, technology advancements mean that we can communicate better than ever before, AI advancements mean There's a reasonable chance a lot of the problems of our time such as energy will be solved or improved. 

Child poverty is increasing again. Regression, not progress.

A statistical increase in life expectancy does not equate to "Times are the best they have ever been in human history". There's a difference between living longer and living better. 

Has tech advancement, and the immediacy of communication made the world and society better on the whole? I'd argue the contrary, and if nothing else, it's created all manner of expectations and made people a lot less patient. 

 

 

[egg]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

The Middle East has always been a tinderbox, it’s not specific to any particular decade. The likes of Gadaffi and Hussein ruled with an iron fist, Saudi Arabia was far behind where it is now and Afghanistan was basically a massive, extremist jihadi training camp. You’ve moved the goalposts a bit to fit the very narrow window between the Yugoslav wars and 9/11, plus we didn’t have the Good Friday agreement until 1998.

My point RE: Food is that your own poor choices don’t constitute a worse world. The option is there for everyone on any budget to live and eat healthy.

My point on healthcare in general, rather than any specific vaccine or treatment, is that it has improved massively over the last 30 years in a whole multitude of areas I can’t even spell. Cancer and dementia are basically the two main eggs we need to crack now but treatments are much better than they were in the nineties. 16th century pirates never died from cancer, it doesn’t mean they had a better healthcare plan.

Hypo's point was that "Times are the best they have ever been in human history" so I can pick any point on time I want as a comparison. 

[Weston Super Saint]

26 minutes ago, egg said:

In the middle to late 90's, our economy was growing, the cold war had ended, the Bosnian war was over, the first gulf war over, and the world generally stable. We now have the middle east tinderbox, Russia/Ukraine, Myanmar, Yemen, and plenty of others. We didn't have 

 

The 90s boom - both here and in the US - was built on the dot com bubble. That crash caused a recession in the early 2000's, swiftly followed by another one due to the sub prime mortgage selling to get out of the first one.

Yuppies driving Porches, drinking champagne and snorting coke didn't really make things 'better' than they are now.

[badgerx16]

Bring back the Black Death.  Let people have a taste of real "bad times".

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Hypo's point was that "Times are the best they have ever been in human history" so I can pick any point on time I want as a comparison. 

Yes, a ridiculously narrow three year window in which life was, in your view, better in the very late nineties. That’s ignoring all the stuff about healthcare and a whole bunch of other metrics by which life is better.

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I dunno, it was much easier to buy a house back in the 90’s. I left uni with pretty much no debt and got a mortgage despite having zero deposit. Think many nowadays are getting a pretty shitty deal compared to my generation. 

Define shit

there are more luxuries, opportunities and support available than ever before. Yeah some things are tougher, like mortgages, but still highly possible for most people.

[whelk]

My broadband is definitely faster than it used to be

[whelk]

Wellbeing is hard to measure. Too many want to measure happiness in terms of GDP. I’d rather have less things, less people and more serenity. 

[egg]

21 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Yes, a ridiculously narrow three year window in which life was, in your view, better in the very late nineties. That’s ignoring all the stuff about healthcare and a whole bunch of other metrics by which life is better.

30 years later and some things are worse. The fact is, we can focus on pretty much any period and pick out something to support the argument. Britain today, and the world, is absolutely not the best it has ever been at any point time. 

[whelk]

And fuck living longer as a good thing (within reason) - just more to cripple health and social care. Why do people crave living so longer with dementia, arthritis and cancer which will get most people if the go on long enough

[egg]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Wellbeing is hard to measure. Too many want to measure happiness in terms of GDP. I’d rather have less things, less people and more serenity. 

Yep. Too many people focus on wants not needs, have unrealistic expectations of themselves and others, and live under pressure of immediacy. 

[hypochondriac]

52 minutes ago, egg said:

Child poverty is increasing again. Regression, not progress.

A statistical increase in life expectancy does not equate to "Times are the best they have ever been in human history". There's a difference between living longer and living better. 

Has tech advancement, and the immediacy of communication made the world and society better on the whole? I'd argue the contrary, and if nothing else, it's created all manner of expectations and made people a lot less patient. 

 

 

Where is your figure from that child poverty is increasing? 

• The joint analysis conducted by the World Bank Group and UNICEF suggest a reduction in the extreme child poverty rate from 20.7 per cent to 15.9 per cent between 2013 and 2022.

• This implies that 49.2 million fewer children live in extreme poverty compared to 2013, however, this is about 30 million less than projected in the absence of COVID-19-related disruptions.

• In the 20-year period between 2000 and early 2020, multidimensional child poverty (experiencing at least one severe deprivation) fell in developing countries from around 70% to 45%

 

So according to the statistics people are living longer AND are healthier and wealthier on average on a global scale than at any point in human history. So it's not a nonsense at all. 

Edited November 10 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Wellbeing is hard to measure. Too many want to measure happiness in terms of GDP. I’d rather have less things, less people and more serenity. 

Euthanise everyone when they are teenagers and become all cynical. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Wellbeing is hard to measure. Too many want to measure happiness in terms of GDP. I’d rather have less things, less people and more serenity. 

“Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants”

Epictetus

 

 

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

30 years later and some things are worse. The fact is, we can focus on pretty much any period and pick out something to support the argument. Britain today, and the world, is absolutely not the best it has ever been at any point time. 

Yes it is. And I didn't mention Britain, only you did. Do you thin the likes of Africa were better in the 90s than they are now despite their many problems? 

Edited November 10 by hypochondriac

[whelk]

51 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes it is. And I didn't mention Britain, only you did. Do you thin the likes of Africa were better in the 90s than they are now despite their many problems? 

Do you feel personally happier because life expectancy and poverty are better in Somalia?

[hypochondriac]

35 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do you feel personally happier because life expectancy and poverty are better in Somalia?

I'm not sure if my personal circumstances and whether I have more or less disposable income than 25 years ago can really be compared to literally hundreds of millions of children no longer being in extreme poverty. When I said things are better than at any other point in history, I wasn't talking about some individual in some random country, I was talking on average about the global population. 

Edited November 10 by hypochondriac

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Where is your figure from that child poverty is increasing? 

• The joint analysis conducted by the World Bank Group and UNICEF suggest a reduction in the extreme child poverty rate from 20.7 per cent to 15.9 per cent between 2013 and 2022.

• This implies that 49.2 million fewer children live in extreme poverty compared to 2013, however, this is about 30 million less than projected in the absence of COVID-19-related disruptions.

• In the 20-year period between 2000 and early 2020, multidimensional child poverty (experiencing at least one severe deprivation) fell in developing countries from around 70% to 45%

 

So according to the statistics people are living longer AND are healthier and wealthier on average on a global scale than at any point in human history. So it's not a nonsense at all. 

It's now 2024, almost 2025 . Your argument is that there has never been a better time to be alive, and rely on figures from 2020 and 2022. Your argument has no credibility at all.

Save the children say this:

"1.2 Billion Children Worldwide Are Living in Poverty

No child deserves to grow up in poverty. And yet, today the number of children living below the national poverty line in low- and middle-income countries is unprecedented. 

Hundreds of millions of children remain multidimensionally poor — meaning they lack access to health care, education, proper nutrition, or adequate housing — often a reflection of inequitable investments by governments in social services.

The economic fallout of the COVID-19 pandemic has resulted in a 15% increase in household poverty around the world."

And you say this is the best time to be alive. 

 

[whelk]

24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not sure if my personal circumstances and whether I have more or less disposable income than 25 years ago can really be compared to literally hundreds of millions of children no longer being in extreme poverty. When I said things are better than at any other point in history, I wasn't talking about some individual in some random country, I was talking on average about the global population. 

Most are not as altruistic as you. So given that logic we would all be happier having far less disposable income to pay higher taxes to ease child poverty across the world and we’d all be saying we’d never had it so good? Far better spent on saving from starvation than having a new car?

[Farmer Saint]

For me the measure is whether the gap between rich and poor is larger or smaller. Not sure on the stats on that one personally.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Most are not as altruistic as you. So given that logic we would all be happier having far less disposable income to pay higher taxes to ease child poverty across the world and we’d all be saying we’d never had it so good? Far better spent on saving from starvation than having a new car?

No in that circumstance I'd care about myself but if you're asking if this is the best time to live in I'm going to look beyond just myself and my personal circumstances for my answer. Fwiw, If the question were is it the best time in history to live in Southampton then my answer would probably be no. 

[Lighthouse]

By the metric most important to me, I.e. the health of myself and my family, life is better now. What people eat is their choice but ultimately if a doctor told me tomorrow that I had HIV or cancer, I’d have a much better chance of survival than I did in 1993. The main reason for the world being worse is overcrowding, which in turn drives up house prices as well as other living costs. That sucks, especially for the younger generations with more debt, trying to get a foothold in the real world, but overall life is better. 

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

It's now 2024, almost 2025 . Your argument is that there has never been a better time to be alive, and rely on figures from 2020 and 2022. Your argument has no credibility at all.

Save the children say this:

"1.2 Billion Children Worldwide Are Living in Poverty

No child deserves to grow up in poverty. And yet, today the number of children living below the national poverty line in low- and middle-income countries is unprecedented. 

Hundreds of millions of children remain multidimensionally poor — meaning they lack access to health care, education, proper nutrition, or adequate housing — often a reflection of inequitable investments by governments in social services.

The economic fallout of the COVID-19 pandemic has resulted in a 15% increase in household poverty around the world."

And you say this is the best time to be alive. 

 

The reason I used the figures from 2022 were because that was the last time the last major study was done. The graph I already posted shows that there are literally millions less people including children in extreme poverty than there were in 2020. Even if I accept your flawed figures, then I'm happy to amend my statement to this is the greatest time to be alive save for a minor blip due to the global pandemic which caused a temporary halt to global poverty rates) though that is disputed.) Nevertheless the overall trend is still very much downwards at a rate of millions per year. What three year period in history are you suggesting that child poverty rates were lower than now? 

[Tamesaint]

Football was better in the 80s. Saints were one of the best teams in the country. None of this top 6 bollocks. We should have done the double in 1983 / 84 and if it hadn't been for Heysel we would have had some good European ventures .

 

[sadoldgit]

19 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Times are the best they have ever been in human history. If anyone thinks things are uniquely terrible at this point then they're either addicted to social media or completely taken in by certain media articles. 

Utter twaddle. As ever you base your assumption on your own blinkered version of “life” as it applies to other people.

Do you think people in Gaza, Ukraine, many parts of Africa, Valencia, people here who rely on food banks, people here waiting years for necessary operations, people here waiting for mental health appointments,Americans who value democracy and decency etc etc etc think we are living in the best times ever. Muslims and Jews around the world afraid for their safely every day all around the world. Best times? 
Everything is relative and whilst “times” have been worse, to claim they are “the best they have ever been in human history” shows a level of naivety that underlies your entire posting history on here.

Uniquely terrible? It depends where you live and upon your own circumstances, but if you bother to pay attention to world news on a daily basis it is very obvious to all that we are certainly not living in the best times ever. 

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Utter twaddle. As ever you base your assumption on your own blinkered version of “life” as it applies to other people.

Do you think people in Gaza, Ukraine, many parts of Africa, Valencia, people here who rely on food banks, people here waiting years for necessary operations, people here waiting for mental health appointments,Americans who value democracy and decency etc etc etc think we are living in the best times ever. Muslims and Jews around the world afraid for their safely every day all around the world. Best times? 
Everything is relative and whilst “times” have been worse, to claim they are “the best they have ever been in human history” shows a level of naivety that underlies your entire posting history on here.

Uniquely terrible? It depends where you live and upon your own circumstances, but if you bother to pay attention to world news on a daily basis it is very obvious to all that we are certainly not living in the best times ever. 

You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think that saying things are better than they have ever been on average means denying there are terrible things happening in the world all the time. Your point about the news just completely confirms my earlier point. Very low IQ individual. What period in history was better than now on average across the globe? 

Edited November 11 by hypochondriac

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think that saying things are better than they have ever been on average means denying there are terrible things happening in the world all the time. Your point about the news just completely confirms my earlier point. Very low IQ individual. What period in history was better than now on average across the globe? 

Pax Romana? Pax Brittanica?

[aintforever]

11 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Football was better in the 80s. Saints were one of the best teams in the country. None of this top 6 bollocks. We should have done the double in 1983 / 84 and if it hadn't been for Heysel we would have had some good European ventures .

 

Also when I was a kid you could get into the Milton for £2, that's pay on the day, none of this buying a ticket a month in advance bollocks. Plus you could stand where you want. Nowadays you pay more, watch shitter football and end up sat amongst boring fuckers who didn't even sing. I couldn't even get a cup of Boveril last time I tried.

Obviously technological advances mean many things are better today but there are a whole load of things that are worse. In 1996 you would go and see Oasis, when they were actually good, for £22.50. There are a fraction of the amount of pubs around today, and they are always full of wankers having meals not young people having good time. I remember if you were ill a doctor came out to your house, today you have to wait 2 weeks for a phone call. Dentists are like rocking horse shit, Wagon Wheels are smaller...

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Pax Romana? Pax Brittanica?

2 complete myths; the Romans and British were constantly fighting somewhere around their Empires, either to keep 'barbarians' out or to suppress internal dissention. In either case it was fine if you were part of the governing elite, but the Great Unwashed were too busy scrabbling to survive to notice how well off they were.

Edited November 11 by badgerx16

[Challenger]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Also when I was a kid you could get into the Milton for £2, that's pay on the day, none of this buying a ticket a month in advance bollocks. Plus you could stand where you want. Nowadays you pay more, watch shitter football and end up sat amongst boring fuckers who didn't even sing. I couldn't even get a cup of Boveril last time I tried.

Obviously technological advances mean many things are better today but there are a whole load of things that are worse. In 1996 you would go and see Oasis, when they were actually good, for £22.50. There are a fraction of the amount of pubs around today, and they are always full of wankers having meals not young people having good time. I remember if you were ill a doctor came out to your house, today you have to wait 2 weeks for a phone call. Dentists are like rocking horse shit, Wagon Wheels are smaller...

Nothing aintforever I suppose.

[Gloucester Saint]

12 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Football was better in the 80s. Saints were one of the best teams in the country. None of this top 6 bollocks. We should have done the double in 1983 / 84 and if it hadn't been for Heysel we would have had some good European ventures .

 

The football itself was better I agree and far more in touch with working communities. However, for balance, the stadiums were awful. We forget this because the Dell was one of the tidiest and safest in that era but many were not - Bradford, Hillsborough, Heysel. There was a lot more trouble as well - on the same day as Bradford, a lad was killed by a falling wall at St Andrews as Brum and Leeds firms battled it out. Chelsea was 80% in the elements, away end at Ewood awful, and as for lower league grounds…compare it to now. If go to Whaddon Rd, only one stand is antiquated, the other three are safe, modern, clean and tidy.

Edited November 11 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

It’s very difficult to compare between eras. Public services were definitely better previously - dentists, GPs, local authorities - the country has gone in the wrong direction there. However, our preventative knowledge is much better nowadays showing the value of investing in research and especially mental health, which is much better recognised than it ever was. Neurodiversity is way better recognised but we need to get the waiting lists on diagnosis now.

Culturally it’s harder still to compare because of streaming, you don’t have 30m people watching the same programme, not even major Royal events but then the choice is good to have on the other hand.

The climate is definitely more unpredictable though - the sun is at its most intense 5-8pm in the summer now and that was never the case. First noticed it in 2018 in the Lake District, road surface melting on Hardknott Pass (that was fun!). More intense spells of rainfall and storms with the costly damage to communities and properties, businesses that entails.

Politically - the more things change the more they stay the same. In 1991, the USSR was no more and the end of history was proclaimed. Today, Putin is no different to many of the expansionist Soviet dictators, but America is potentially far less stable. China is recognised as more of threat today politically and on trade since Clinton let them into WTO. 

Something else - people have changed post-Brexit, which was toxic whichever side you were on, then really visible after the pandemic. More fractious, bad tempered and things flare off quicker. You see it in shops, the roads, sometimes at work. People are quicker to be aggressive and abusive. That said, the decline in customer service doesn’t help. I think society has become too fractionalised into groups, we’ve forgotten how to agree and disagree. People should also be able to mistakes and apologise without being cancelled or humiliated. 

Seen Duck’s post since and agree with much of that, late 90s-early 00s were probably the best I experienced. Saints were a darn sight better too!

 

Edited November 11 by Gloucester Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

Personally I think the unimportant things were better back in the day. The football was, music was far far better, freedom to have a proper childhood, no mobile phones &  boozers were far better. Social attitudes were better as well, despite this and that awareness weeks & diversity bods it’s such a puritanical age.

I’d say we hit a sweet spot just prior to the millennium, where the vast majority never really gave a shite what colour you were, if you were Gay, or what religion you followed and birds were genuinely empowered. People just got on with their lives without lectures about how to think & how to live and people were better for it. Most youngsters I meet  are so fucking sensible now, it’s depressing. 
 

The important things have improved for most. People are surviving diseases that used to kill us, our parents and grand parents are living longer because they haven’t spent years toiling in shitty conditions. Work places are safer, as are cars. I can’t speak for abroad, as a visit is only a snap shot, but I’d say we’re safer now, but more boring. So I’m in the “life used to be better camp”. 

 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Personally I think the unimportant things were better back in the day. The football was, music was far far better, freedom to have a proper childhood, no mobile phones &  boozers were far better. Social attitudes were better as well, despite this and that awareness weeks & diversity bods it’s such a puritanical age.

I’d say we hit a sweet spot just prior to the millennium, where the vast majority never really gave a shite what colour you were, if you were Gay, or what religion you followed and birds were genuinely empowered. People just got on with their lives without lectures about how to think & how to live and people were better for it. Most youngsters I meet  are so fucking sensible now, it’s depressing. 
 

The important things have improved for most. People are surviving diseases that used to kill us, our parents and grand parents are living longer because they haven’t spent years toiling in shitty conditions. Work places are safer, as are cars. I can’t speak for abroad, as a visit is only a snap shot, but I’d say we’re safer now, but more boring. So I’m in the “life used to be better camp”. 

 

I don't disagree with a lot of that. I think it depends what metric you use for the statement. I'd say global health and poverty rates are a decent indicator but like you say, culturally in the UK and the West generally we are probably worse. 

[sadoldgit]

Our previous PM doesn’t think that it’s a bed of roses nowadays. Nor does the previous Foreign Secretary and former PM.

https://londonlovesbusiness.com/sunak-warns-the-uks-in-the-most-dangerous-times-ever-seen-and-our-lives-is-going-to-change/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-foreign-secretary-world-economic-forum-davos-bill-gates-b1132849.html

Edited November 11 by sadoldgit

[hypochondriac]

Fascinating how insular some people are and how unable they are to look outside of their own personal experiences when answering a question like this. Certain posters who claim to be of the left claim they have a lot more empathy for the experiences of others around the world yet questions like this suggest this to not be the case.