Wolves 2-0 Saints - Match Thread

[swingworkstheoracle]

8 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

17th in League 2

Get him in

[Pamplemousse]

The set up away from home is all wrong. We've lost every game and we've put in the exact same performance against Brentford, Bournemouth and Wolves.

Ironically, the games where we've looked OK away were Newcastle, Arsenal (for the first 60 mins) and Man City where we were a bit more defensive.

It's pretty obvious that we need to change tactically but the manager can't see it, despite the shocking results.

[stknowle]

Our manager, our owners sitting on their hands and refusing to act, our boring turgid football, VAR. This season is just a total crock of shit.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Glad to see the moaner boners have got something to crow about again this week

It's a 1-1 game if not for typically bullshit, spawny, cunty decisions going against us at Molineux. 

Agree with the consensus that taking that out of the picture, we must don't create enough for the possession we have (as has been the story for ages). Change the manager if you want, but if you think that will suddenly get the mercurial genius of Cam Archer and Tall Paul scoring the goals to win us games, well.. prepare to go into doom monger jizz in your pants overdrive

On what basis do you assume it's a 1-1 game if the goal we had chalked off is given? It doesn't work like that. Give a goal and the whole complex of the rest of the game plays out totally differently. With 4 points from 11 games and another inept display yesterday maybe the moaners have a massive amount to moan about but we'll wait for your permission to voice our opinions while we meekly watch our mismanaged and poorly coached team churn out this propaganda football week in week out.

[Wiggles31]

48 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Our manager, our owners sitting on their hands and refusing to act, our boring turgid football, VAR. This season is just a total crock of shit.

Depressing isn’t it. 

[Convict Colony]

Didnt see the game but heard 0 shots on target again.

This is our shots on target this season, this is our fundamental problem, you can see why charlie was sold 1 shot in 9mins, far too attacking, someone needs to ask martin why we arent shooting.

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

someone needs to ask martin why we arent shooting.

We already know the answer to that... Shooting invariably leads to a loss of possession, which goes against the really clever philosophy that we're wedded to...

Edited November 10 by trousers

[trousers]

12 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I gave up my season ticket this season precisely because there was a moany bloke on either side of me last year. They drove me crazy week after week to the extent that I hoped they wouldn't turn up just to give my ears and brain a break! Unfortunately it wasn't the moany blokes that left.

No doubt they're having a field day this season.

 

12 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

This was beyond frustrating, we were clearly the better side for 35mins so how on earth did we contrive to lose the match?

Whatever Martin changes tactically the end result is always the same. Something is broken and he really has not got a clue as to how to fix it.

Most fans have run out of patience now surely? Time for the P45 on his desk Monday morning, Announcement tomorrow?

You know things are getting bad when both versions of Charlie post one after the other...

[saintstowin]

The bigger picture is change is needed. 

But in this match we were done by VAR and then lack of VAR. The first one is simply bizarre, a few Wolves fans wanted a FK (does that alert VAR?) but at worst it's a 50 50. It's embarrassing how refs never stick to their decision especially as the high bar is clearly rubbish. 

And then not one but two fouls. And don't tell me VAR isn't influenced by a home team scoring a screamer because I won't believe you. 

We are bad but getting an equaliser in a game where the home fans are ready to turn would have changed things. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Glad to see the moaner boners have got something to crow about again this week

It's a 1-1 game if not for typically bullshit, spawny, cunty decisions going against us at Molineux. 

Agree with the consensus that taking that out of the picture, we must don't create enough for the possession we have (as has been the story for ages). Change the manager if you want, but if you think that will suddenly get the mercurial genius of Cam Archer and Tall Paul scoring the goals to win us games, well.. prepare to go into doom monger jizz in your pants overdrive

The fuckin Chuckle Brothers could take on the job for all I care, and one of those is dead. I just want Martin gone. Had enough of his smug and arrogant attitude and the utter bullshit he spouts in his interviews. Fed up with him saying how much he loves the players, the culture at this club is all wrong. 

[BarberSaint]

On 04/11/2024 at 19:02, Saint86 said:

I watched them play palace and they were absolutely atrocious. Worse at the back than us. 

 

 

But they won yesterday.

[Disco Stu]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Didnt see the game but heard 0 shots on target again.

This is our shots on target this season, this is our fundamental problem, you can see why charlie was sold 1 shot in 9mins, far too attacking, someone needs to ask martin why we arent shooting.

I was and still am very angry that Alcaraz was sold.

[coalman]

Another thing about the way Martin sets up teams really jumped out at me yesterday. He doesn't really know how to employ defensive central midfielders. Which is great when we have the ball, but as soon as we lose the ball our paper thin midfield fails to protect our defence. Playing Lallana as one of two central midfielders in the Premier League is madness. Lallana needs to be higher up the pitch where his quality helps us and his lack of fitness / bite doesn't harm us.

[kitch]

20 minutes ago, coalman said:

Lallana needs to be higher up the pitch where his quality helps us and his lack of fitness / bite doesn't harm us.

Agreed. Last two games I've seen him lose the ball (which is rare, but does happen) and then blow out of his arse trying to track back to cover it, ultimately being left for dead. Seems crazy to employ a legit no.10 as a 6.
Yesterday, Cameron Archer got back before he did and dealt with the issue. I think Lallana's been a fine signing all things considered, but he's not a CDM/CM. We're still too light in that dept (as the injury to Downes shows).

[Jack]

4 minutes ago, kitch said:

Agreed. Last two games I've seen him lose the ball (which is rare, but does happen) and then blow out of his arse trying to track back to cover it, ultimately being left for dead. Seems crazy to employ a legit no.10 as a 6.
Yesterday, Cameron Archer got back before he did and dealt with the issue. I think Lallana's been a fine signing all things considered, but he's not a CDM/CM. We're still too light in that dept (as the injury to Downes shows).

Sadly Big Les is useless, think they were banking on him being capable in that position. 

[coalman]

Just now, Jack said:

Sadly Big Les is useless, think they were banking on him being capable in that position. 

That depends on how you're playing him. As a Wanyama style player who gets about and puts pressure on our opponents he's great. It was the same last season with Charles - Martin would prefer playing an attacking midfielder out of position than someone specialised for that role. By failing to screen our defence we get situations like the first goal yesterday where teams can break through the middle almost at will.

Throw in the fact that our fullbacks are playing as budget wingers and leaving huge gaps out wide as well and you get a team that concedes two goals a game no matter how much possession you have.

[kitch]

7 minutes ago, Jack said:

Sadly Big Les is useless, think they were banking on him being capable in that position. 

He's not been a great signing, but I don't think that's his fault. He has the ability, but we're using him for roles he's not suited to. He came from a Rennes team that would have slapped ours silly, and Chelsea deemed him good enough.

It's like going back in time and asking Wanyama to do what Morgan did. Never going to end well.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, imadirtyurchin said:

I think on reflection one of my biggest frustrations, amongst many… other than not creating anything in an attacking sense with an urgency is the recurring pass we play into midfield after having the ball at the back..

 

we continually have the ball at the back and are being pressured (great, it’s creating space) but it’s near our goal… then the ball is passed under pressure into the midfield and it’s never to an obvious player just into space - then a midfielder will be running at pace towards our goal to receive a ball that’s slowing down but he’s closely tracked by a opponent who is also running at pace - but facing our goal. Our player can’t turn so he can only flick the ball left or right or pass back - it’s this next ball that is continually given away - and the press is all facing our goal, all running that way and our defenders are spread out and on the back foot from being pressed in the prior part of the move. 
 

it happens every game, and it’s so often leads to opposition chances - I think the triggers have been sussed cos martin “won’t change” - so what hope is there? 
 

very very symptomatic of what’s wrong at the moment. 

Exactly.

The whole Possession Principle is fundamentally flawed.

[bangkoksaint]

So given our stats this season every time we go 1 nil down (which is most weeks) we have to score just under a third of our season total to then win the game, assuming we don’t concede again. To put that in context it’s like saying if Liverpool go a goal down, using the same percentages, then to win they have to score 6. Quite simply it’s not happening and as soon as we concede it’s as good as game over.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, coalman said:

That depends on how you're playing him. As a Wanyama style player who gets about and puts pressure on our opponents he's great. It was the same last season with Charles - Martin would prefer playing an attacking midfielder out of position than someone specialised for that role. By failing to screen our defence we get situations like the first goal yesterday where teams can break through the middle almost at will.

Throw in the fact that our fullbacks are playing as budget wingers and leaving huge gaps out wide as well and you get a team that concedes two goals a game no matter how much possession you have.

QED! 

[Miltonaggro]

5 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Glad to see the moaner boners have got something to crow about again this week

It's a 1-1 game if not for typically bullshit, spawny, cunty decisions going against us at Molineux. 

Agree with the consensus that taking that out of the picture, we must don't create enough for the possession we have (as has been the story for ages). Change the manager if you want, but if you think that will suddenly get the mercurial genius of Cam Archer and Tall Paul scoring the goals to win us games, well.. prepare to go into doom monger jizz in your pants overdrive

[Saint NL]

I reckon if Mannings goal stood yesterday we would have won that game. At that point, we looked up for it. But heads dropped big time, the same as against Man Utd with the missed penalty. As soon as something goes against us, we fall apart.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

25 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

I reckon if Mannings goal stood yesterday we would have won that game. At that point, we looked up for it. But heads dropped big time, the same as against Man Utd with the missed penalty. As soon as something goes against us, we fall apart.

Pass it back
Every now and then I get a little bit angry
Hundreds of nowhere balls makes me want to cry
Pass it back
Every now and then I get a little bit terrified
As we wave more points goodbye

Turn it round Martin
Every game we fall apart
Turn it round Martin
Every game we fall apart

As sung by Kingsland season ticket holder, Bonnie Tyler

[derry]

Ipswich just beat Spurs 2-1. We're now 4 points behind. Ipswich, high press, high tempo and fast breaks. Still it's a lot easier to stroll, pass short and slow, lose and pick up loads of money. Something wrong somewhere.

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, derry said:

Ipswich just beat Spurs 2-1. We're now 4 points behind. Ipswich, high press, high tempo and fast breaks. Still it's a lot easier to stroll, pass short and slow, lose and pick up loads of money. Something wrong somewhere.

Can anyone imagine us beating Spurs away - or anyone else for that matter. Not sure why we are waiting for RMs weird way of playing football to transform us cos it aint happening and the sooner SR come to terms with that the sooner we can be rid of this charlatan.

[Badger]

6 hours ago, trousers said:

We already know the answer to that... Shooting invariably leads to a loss of possession, which goes against the really clever philosophy that we're wedded to...

And if we’re really reckless with our shooting the opposition get to start their possession halfway up the field in the centre circle. Far too close to our goal for comfort. 

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Saint NL said:

I reckon if Mannings goal stood yesterday we would have won that game. At that point, we looked up for it. But heads dropped big time, the same as against Man Utd with the missed penalty. As soon as something goes against us, we fall apart.

Yes, mentally weak, and fragile.

Might also want to add the failure to appeal decisions at the right time...I can't imagine many clubs (especially Liverpool, Man Utd or trhe other 'big' clubs) meekly accepting the shirt pull on Tall Paul v Leicester, or yesterday's double leading up to the Wolves second. Damn sure they'd have got a VAR review even if they'd needed to carry the ref over to the monitor.

Interestingly the MOTD team all thought there had been fouls in the build up (And that our goal should have stood). I didn't think RM made enough of that either in his interview. 

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, Saint NL said:

I reckon if Mannings goal stood yesterday we would have won that game. At that point, we looked up for it. But heads dropped big time, the same as against Man Utd with the missed penalty. As soon as something goes against us, we fall apart.

We were 2-0 up against Leicester and still ended up losing.

[Kenilworthy]

So awful were we that I don't think anyone mentioned that brilliant touch by BBD when he sublimely backheeled the ball straight of play

[Dr. Kucho]

9 hours ago, trousers said:

We already know the answer to that... Shooting invariably leads to a loss of possession, which goes against the really clever philosophy that we're wedded to...

Hold on Trousers, I think you might have uncovered the reason we refuse to score goals. Scoring means the opposition gets the ball for the kick off.

[Football Special]

Think that's enough about Wolves now, you can't change that past, it is what it is, but we can shape the future,  can someone start the Liverpool build up thread so we can have that to look forward to please 

[notnowcato]

Fucking joke of a game. Things are hard enough as it is without having a perfectly good goal chalked off or allowing the 2nd to stand after 2 blatant fouls. 
Fuck you VAR, up the fucking Saints!

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, derry said:

Ipswich just beat Spurs 2-1. We're now 4 points behind. Ipswich, high press, high tempo and fast breaks. Still it's a lot easier to stroll, pass short and slow, lose and pick up loads of money. Something wrong somewhere.

It was their first win of the season, they took even longer than us to get a 3 pointer. Not sure we should laud their high press, high tempo and fast breaks based on that.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

It was their first win of the season, they took even longer than us to get a 3 pointer. Not sure we should laud their high press, high tempo and fast breaks based on that.

Let's see how we get on away at Spurs first before we belittle their win.

[derry]

23 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

It was their first win of the season, they took even longer than us to get a 3 pointer. Not sure we should laud their high press, high tempo and fast breaks based on that.

However they have only lost five games as opposed to our nine and are out of the bottom three.

[Saint86]

12 hours ago, BarberSaint said:

 

 

But they won yesterday.

I mean, they only won because var gave them a 2goal advantage. They're fecking useless 😆

Edited November 10 by Saint86

[david in sweden]

We got scr*wed again.  Two fouls on Saints players before Wolves second goal  and Manning's effort was ruled out.

A collision between Fernandes and Wolves player (maybe) but such things occur with nearly every goal situation. 

Although we didn't show any real attacking prowess, we might have got one point - even on a bad day.

Not sure that I would blame VAR every time, but the referee's judgement ( or lack of it ) has made a huge difference.

 

The blatant pull on Onuachu's ..shirt in the Leicester game was totally ignored by the ref. standing 5 yeards away

and not even referred to VAR,  whilst a comparatively gentle shirt tug on Vardy.. by the shortest player on the pitch

..ranked a penalty and a red card (!)     Where was the double jeopardy ruling ? 

The fuss over Everton's disallowed goal took almost two minutes to decide, when the first photo clearly showed

two Everton players offside, but it took an age to clarify it. 

Have we fallen into the relegation trap in some eyes.  " It's only Saints, they are bottom and never win anything

-and so they give the opposition the benefit of the doubt.

[Morse]

Former Saints caretaker manager and long ball enthusiast Dave Bassett is available. It would be like a breath of fresh air to see us just 'chuck it in the mixer'. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, david in sweden said:

We got scr*wed again.  Two fouls on Saints players before Wolves second goal  and Manning's effort was ruled out.

A collision between Fernandes and Wolves player (maybe) but such things occur with nearly every goal situation. 

Although we didn't show any real attacking prowess, we might have got one point - even on a bad day.

Not sure that I would blame VAR every time, but the referee's judgement ( or lack of it ) has made a huge difference.

 

The blatant pull on Onuachu's ..shirt in the Leicester game was totally ignored by the ref. standing 5 yeards away

and not even referred to VAR,  whilst a comparatively gentle shirt tug on Vardy.. by the shortest player on the pitch

..ranked a penalty and a red card (!)     Where was the double jeopardy ruling ? 

The fuss over Everton's disallowed goal took almost two minutes to decide, when the first photo clearly showed

two Everton players offside, but it took an age to clarify it. 

Have we fallen into the relegation trap in some eyes.  " It's only Saints, they are bottom and never win anything

-and so they give the opposition the benefit of the doubt.

It’s a sad day when we start blaming the refereeing for all our problems.

And those two fouls had no bearing on Wolves’ second goal. For both their goals a player was allowed to run right through our half of the pitch without being challenged.

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s a sad day when we start blaming the refereeing for all our problems.

And those two fouls had no bearing on Wolves’ second goal. For both their goals a player was allowed to run right through our half of the pitch without being challenged.

I don’t think anyone is blaming the shit refereeing or VAR-ing for all our problems. What you can say is that when the score is 1-1 it’s a totally different game as they don’t have the comfort of sitting in a low block and not take any risks. 

[chownie20]

its really easy to point to VAR, but I think in this case you have to cut RM some slack.  He lost Downes (Arguably most important player) last minute, yes its rubbish to gift a goal early, but then we score a perfectly good goal to get to 1-1, and from there you would probably have backed us to get our third straight win.  Then they're given a bit VAR let-off, and score a worldy to get a 2 goal cushion at home, by which time the game sort of felt gone really.

It is totally all "ifs buts and maybes", but we are not far off, its small margins, and I know other teams can say the same, and we rode our luck vs Everton, etc.  

A freak equaliser by Ipswich - 2 points lost vs a relegation rival.

Screwed by VAR again vs Leicester - 2 points lost vs a relegation rival.

Turn these three games around and we are sitting out of the bottom three.  It feels bad, and the table doesnt lie, but we are not a million miles off.  I do wish we hadnt wasted the money on BBD, and the loan space on Cornet though.

[Whitey Grandad]

You can be unlucky in one game, maybe two, but we have had enough of the season to know that this style of playing is not going to work in this division.

[chownie20]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You can be unlucky in one game, maybe two, but we have had enough of the season to know that this style of playing is not going to work in this division.

Yep maybe - Jo Tessem summed it up well by saying you cant pass and break down teams into submission in this league easily.  We do have the players to be more direct and quick - got a massive (inflated) squad really.  We could set up just like Ipswich or Bournemouth do.   I dont buy that we only have players who can play the RM way for one moment.

 

[a1ex2001]

On 10/11/2024 at 09:47, Convict Colony said:

Didnt see the game but heard 0 shots on target again.

This is our shots on target this season, this is our fundamental problem, you can see why charlie was sold 1 shot in 9mins, far too attacking, someone needs to ask martin why we arent shooting.

Two reasons we don't shoot:

1) we would risk loosing the ball and messing up our possession statistics

2) When we have the ball we are generally passing it about so far from the opposition goal that our player can't actually kick it that far!

[VectisSaint]

14 hours ago, derry said:

However they have only lost five games as opposed to our nine and are out of the bottom three.

My point is that they are hardly setting the world on fire with their style of play, not that much better than us, and until the weekend were winless. That doesn't mean I think what we ae doing is any good, but there are better examples of teams being successful than "one win" Ipswich.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

My point is that they are hardly setting the world on fire with their style of play, not that much better than us, and until the weekend were winless. That doesn't mean I think what we ae doing is any good, but there are better examples of teams being successful than "one win" Ipswich.

Yet they beat us comfortably. They may end up being relegated but it will be with us beneath them in the table.

[redkeith]

Dermot Gallagher on refwatch just said he thought both decisions were right, even after Scouse Sue and Warnock explained to him that the defender was obstructing Fernades! They all then agreed that it wasn't enough of a foul for the 2nd one, even though you could see most of his vest ! 

Still no shots on target against the current worst defense in the league is another great stat to add to Rusells collection.  As for the late switch to chuck on as many supposed goalscores as possible, rather than someone to take people on and put crosses in, words fail me. 

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yet they beat us comfortably. They may end up being relegated but it will be with us beneath them in the table.

Since when is 1-1 "beating us comfortably" 🤣

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Since when is 1-1 "beating us comfortably" 🤣

The game ended 0-2

Ah, I see now. I was referring to Wolves.

[OldNick]

2 hours ago, redkeith said:

Dermot Gallagher on refwatch just said he thought both decisions were right, even after Scouse Sue and Warnock explained to him that the defender was obstructing Fernades! They all then agreed that it wasn't enough of a foul for the 2nd one, even though you could see most of his vest ! 

Still no shots on target against the current worst defense in the league is another great stat to add to Rusells collection.  As for the late switch to chuck on as many supposed goalscores as possible, rather than someone to take people on and put crosses in, words fail me. 

Gallagher, he couldn't judge a marrow competition! He was an awful ref and now he is being paid for giving his crap opinions now