Wolves 2-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Toadhall Saint]

Draw at best

[Pamplemousse]

Hopefully with a win and clean sheet under our belts, we'll have a bit more confidence.

We have lost every away game and put in some stinkers but reckon we'll be OK. Entertaining score draw.

[Mr X]

wolves are a far better team than their league position suggests.  Fail to win this as I suspect we will and we are as good as down in my opinion as we need a minimum ten wins to have a chance of staying in this league. 

Of course it was good to get our first win against Everton but anyone who thinks we played well is seriously kidding themselves a combination of world class saves from Ramsgate and a narrow var decision got us the points, sometimes you have to win ugly though, the goal we scored was also the polar opposite of how Martin believes we should play!

[Pamplemousse]

22 hours ago, Football Special said:

I knew our record v Wolves was bad recently but it's even worse than I realised, bogey team that even managed to beat us with 10 men against Nathan Jones side 

Some opposition thoughts 

https://www.wolvesforum.co.uk/threads/southampton-h-9-11-build-up-match-thread.38659/

Interesting about the keeper situation, their keeper Sa can't play out from the back (echos of McCarthy) and they don't rate Johnstone at all. Looks like we dodged a bullet on that one, thank fuck we managed to get Ramsdale.

Ramsdale is a West Brom fan so he'll be up for this one

[Mr X]

This for me cements the fact that Martin is here long term wether we get relegated or not which of course is good for stability but I'm not convinced he will ever be ready for the premier league and will there be good will towards him for another championship season? https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cp3n4ywwg14o

[Football Special]

On 04/11/2024 at 19:33, LGTL said:

7.15am train was cancelled so very much looking forward to the 6.15 🥲 into Birmingham in time for Breakfast ffs.

Bit of a naff away day, albeit it’s a cracking old ground with a bit of atmosphere. Our record is shite and Wolves haven’t won a game so we all know how it ends, unfortunately. 

Fair play to you chaps, would have been me few years ago but I'd opt for the 08.15 now, split ticket works well on that line, early start , still one of the joys of an away day boarding a train at breakfast time seeing the look on normal passengers faces when you casually crack open a can of ale. 

[notnowcato]

13 hours ago, Mr X said:

 the goal we scored was also the polar opposite of how Martin believes we should play!

You mean by securing the ball on the edge of our box, allowing Fernandes to break into their half, having gained control 40 yards out he turns back, plays the ball back into our half to our defenders, who eventually switch the play to find Suga wide right who passes into AA for a first time finish…. what part of that is not how we’ve been trying to play for the past 16 months??!!

I’m sure I heard somewhere that it was 40 seconds from the ball hitting our bar to being in the back of the Everton net. That’s not some lightning counter attack or huge hoof ball into the box which may be seen as “the antithesis of what Russball is all about…” or some other nonsense that you see on here.

 

Edited November 6 by notnowcato

[LiberalCommunist]

 Wolves are not a bad team. But their desperation to win this fixture might well work in our favour. If we can show a little composure and get the first goal. Then their home support might well make this even more difficult for them. I’m not brave enough to predict the win. But I reckon we will make this difficult for them.

[Zorba]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

You mean by securing the ball on the edge of our box, allowing Fernandes to break into their half, having gained control 40 yards out he turns back, plays the ball back into our half to our defenders, who eventually switch the play to find Suga wide right who passes into AA for a first time finish…. what part of that is not how we’ve been trying to play for the past 16 months??!!

I’m sure I heard somewhere that it was 40 seconds from the ball hitting our bar to being in the back of the Everton net. That’s not some lightning counter attack or huge hoof ball into the box which may be seen as “the antithesis of what Russball is all about…” or some other nonsense that you see on here.

 

It all starts from awful defending from the set piece.. again, and should definitely have been finished off by Tarkovsky or Beto. That would have been game over but we got lucky, thankfully.

Initially it looks like an excellent, quick counter attack. Something we don't see nearly enough of from this current team. But.. it's not. Fernandes stops the counter and puts his foot on the ball to pass backwards to Aribo. Aribo gives it back and Fernandes hits it square across the halfway line. I don't have a problem with this so far, we still have the ball, but at this point, we are all expecting aimless "recycling" around the back, then back to Ramsdale, so on an so forth, rinse and repeat. But for THB looking up and playing a great ball down the line to Suga, the goal doesn't happen. This is the type of ball we're crying out for every game.. not the over-passing/recycling we've come to expect from RM's "philosophy". Saints looked good on the attack here, we just don't get to see it enough. Let's hope we do at Wolves.

Scrappy 2-2

[SaintsBarry74]

On 04/11/2024 at 19:28, Midfield_General said:

The exact moment the penny finally dropped for me that he was never going to get any better. Watching it back, I think that's comfortably the worst miss I've ever seen at any level of football. So mind-meltingly bad that it almost defies the laws of physics. 

Let's enjoy it in full shall we.

0.48:

 

Signature Baz save attempt at 0:35.

[pimpin4rizeal]

         Ramsdale 

yuki   Thb stephens.  Kwp 

          Downwa 

       Aribo   Fernandes 

dibling.       Archer.  Armstrong 

strongest line up we can put out atm 

gets arma in whilst only losing manning .. slight personal preference for aribo  over lallana and jack over bednarek 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Zorba said:

It all starts from awful defending from the set piece.. again, and should definitely have been finished off by Tarkovsky or Beto. That would have been game over but we got lucky, thankfully.

Initially it looks like an excellent, quick counter attack. Something we don't see nearly enough of from this current team. But.. it's not. Fernandes stops the counter and puts his foot on the ball to pass backwards to Aribo. Aribo gives it back and Fernandes hits it square across the halfway line. I don't have a problem with this so far, we still have the ball, but at this point, we are all expecting aimless "recycling" around the back, then back to Ramsdale, so on an so forth, rinse and repeat. But for THB looking up and playing a great ball down the line to Suga, the goal doesn't happen. This is the type of ball we're crying out for every game.. not the over-passing/recycling we've come to expect from RM's "philosophy". Saints looked good on the attack here, we just don't get to see it enough. Let's hope we do at Wolves.

Scrappy 2-2

How often is that ball or similar actually on for us to play?  No doubt it's more than we see happen but equally when we do try and force it we lose possession of the ball. We retain the ball when that type of ball to Suga is not on.   

Edited November 6 by notnowcato

[Winnersaint]

4 hours ago, Zorba said:

It all starts from awful defending from the set piece.. again, and should definitely have been finished off by Tarkovsky or Beto. That would have been game over but we got lucky, thankfully.

Initially it looks like an excellent, quick counter attack. Something we don't see nearly enough of from this current team. But.. it's not. Fernandes stops the counter and puts his foot on the ball to pass backwards to Aribo. Aribo gives it back and Fernandes hits it square across the halfway line. I don't have a problem with this so far, we still have the ball, but at this point, we are all expecting aimless "recycling" around the back, then back to Ramsdale, so on an so forth, rinse and repeat. But for THB looking up and playing a great ball down the line to Suga, the goal doesn't happen. This is the type of ball we're crying out for every game.. not the over-passing/recycling we've come to expect from RM's "philosophy". Saints looked good on the attack here, we just don't get to see it enough. Let's hope we do at Wolves.

Scrappy 2-2

Carragher pointed out that Everton got out of shape with two players in the left back position who weren't left backs which allowed THB to play that pass in behind to Sugawara. From then on it was a combination of Ashley Young ball watching and Archer's great little run which took the defence goalwards and  created the space for Arma  to occupy. It was a pretty good goal actually. As far as the recycling is concerned I've heard in a number of interviews RM specifically complain that we don't find the final pass or move the ball quickly enough when we need to. So it's as much about individual player decision making as anything coached by RM and the coaching team. That decision making is influenced ability and mentality and that dictates why we seem to dick around with the ball so much as some players are simply not good enough to do it at this level. 

[Weston Super Saint]

6 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

 Wolves are not a bad team. But their desperation to win this fixture might well work in our favour. 

Unlike us who are ambivalent when it comes to those meaningless points things.

[coalman]

2 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

Carragher pointed out that Everton got out of shape with two players in the left back position who weren't left backs which allowed THB to play that pass in behind to Sugawara. From then on it was a combination of Ashley Young ball watching and Archer's great little run which took the defence goalwards and  created the space for Arma  to occupy. It was a pretty good goal actually. As far as the recycling is concerned I've heard in a number of interviews RM specifically complain that we don't find the final pass or move the ball quickly enough when we need to. So it's as much about individual player decision making as anything coached by RM and the coaching team. That decision making is influenced ability and mentality and that dictates why we seem to dick around with the ball so much as some players are simply not good enough to do it at this level. 

Curious to know why it's the players not being good enough rather than the manager failing to coach them properly? And if the players aren't good enough and the manager knows this then why is the manager trying to play that way?

[Football Special]

41 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Unlike us who are ambivalent when it comes to those meaningless points things.

Stop being greedy, we've had our win 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

On 04/11/2024 at 18:28, Midfield_General said:

The exact moment the penny finally dropped for me that he was never going to get any better. Watching it back, I think that's comfortably the worst miss I've ever seen at any level of football. So mind-meltingly bad that it almost defies the laws of physics. 

Let's enjoy it in full shall we.

0.48:

 

Thanks Midfield-General. Remember being near the half way line that day and we were all convinced there must have been a foul somewhere. Only afterwards, did we realise how bad that miss was. Truly mind-numbing. In fact, it was season defining. We were doing relatively well up to that game and then it all fell apart.

Anyway, going this Saturday and looking forward to it. Difficult to get an away atmosphere going at the ground because we're all in a line but there's not going to be a better chance to beat this lot.

[Toussaint]

Saints win

[Ken Tone]

On 04/11/2024 at 19:33, LGTL said:

7.15am train was cancelled so very much looking forward to the 6.15 🥲 into Birmingham in time for Breakfast ffs.

Bit of a naff away day, albeit it’s a cracking old ground with a bit of atmosphere. Our record is shite and Wolves haven’t won a game so we all know how it ends, unfortunately. 

A cracking old ground? Jesus, you make me feel old!  I went to a game there whilst it was being completely rebuilt. They turned it through 90 degrees and at that game they only had one side stand in use.....yards away from the touchline.

[Kenilworthy]

12 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

A cracking old ground? Jesus, you make me feel old!  I went to a game there whilst it was being completely rebuilt. They turned it through 90 degrees and at that game they only had one side stand in use.....yards away from the touchline.

What happened was that they built the John Ireland stand (now the Steve Bull stand) where we will be behind the existing stand. The idea was that once it was complete they would knock down the old stand and then shift the pitch towards the new stand and then reconstruct the rest of the stadium around it. But they ran out of money and ended up with a brand new stand 30 yards from the pitch. It got even worse as two of the old stands were condemned so they had a two-sided ground until Jack Hayward provided the money for redevelopment. Having clients who were Wolves fans I was at the official reopening game against Honved in December 1993.

[notnowcato]

Thank fuck we beat Everton.  Still a massive game for us but we go there with the confidence of a Premier League victory in the bank.

Question mark over Lallana's availability, about to go into a 2 week break so if there's half a chance he's alright then worth the risk against Wolves rather than saving him for the horrendous run we have till Christmas.  If no Adam then Joe starts, add Flynn and Mateus as the other 2 midfielders.

It must be tempting to start Adam A on the left for this, Tyler on the right and Archer in the middle of the front 3.  But for balance I reckon we start with Fraser on the left, Archer in the middle and Adam A on the right.

As hard as it is to leave Suga out, KWP has to play and play in his strongest position, THB, Jan B and Jack S to complete the 4.

 

Edited November 7 by notnowcato

[tdmickey3]

23 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Thank fuck we beat Everton.  Still a massive game for us but we go there with the confidence of a Premier League victory in the bank.

Question mark over Lallana's availability, about to go into a 2 week break so if there's half a chance he's alright then worth the risk against Wolves rather than saving him for the horrendous run we have till Christmas.  If no Adam then Joe starts, add Flynn and Mateus as the other 2 midfielders.

It must be tempting to start Adam A on the left for this, Tyler on the right and Archer in the middle of the front 3.  But for balance I reckon we start with Fraser on the left, Archer in the middle and Adam A on the right.

As hard as it is to leave Suga out, KWP has to play and play in his strongest position, THB, Jan B and Jack S to complete the 4.

 

Or not play shoehorn and play an actual full back…..Taylor 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Or not play shoehorn and play an actual full back…..Taylor 

Playing Jack or Charlie does allow KWP more freedom, I think they are both equally flawed. 

[tdmickey3]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Playing Jack or Charlie does allow KWP more freedom, I think they are both equally flawed. 

Charlie is a full back, Stephens isnt.

That is the reality 

Stephens gets in, not because of his ability because he isn't as good a fullback as Charlie, its because he is Martins mate.

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Playing Jack or Charlie does allow KWP more freedom, I think they are both equally flawed. 

Plus might I add that Bree has shown himself very capable and worthy of a starting place.

[West end Saints]

On 05/11/2024 at 19:23, Mr X said:

wolves are a far better team than their league position suggests.  Fail to win this as I suspect we will and we are as good as down in my opinion as we need a minimum ten wins to have a chance of staying in this league. 

Of course it was good to get our first win against Everton but anyone who thinks we played well is seriously kidding themselves a combination of world class saves from Ramsgate and a narrow var decision got us the points, sometimes you have to win ugly though, the goal we scored was also the polar opposite of how Martin believes we should play!

Another, "we only one because one of our players is good and the other team were not allowed to score illegal goals" argument.

Imagine for a second people using that the other way around for one of our defeats!

We have had and will have games when we get less out of them than our play deserves, and vice versa, accept it happens rather than change what is important. Could of sworn I read multiple repetitive posts on here recently that pretty football or possession don't matter it's about winning - well we did! Enjoy it, our players aren't great and won't win loads!

[goodymatt]

Any recommendations for away pubs? I recall being turned away trying to get into any city centre pubs last time. 

[goodymatt]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Any recommendations for away pubs? I recall being turned away trying to get into any city centre pubs last time. 

Saints FC Cop on Twitter recommends Prince Albert by the station. Opens at 11am and apparently will take saints fans pre-game only.

[suewhistle]

How do they know you're Saints fans anyway? Too well dressed, or something?

Reminds me of a friend of mine who got in to the Kop once. He's no wind up merchant and kept quiet, as you would.. Anyway, Saints scored but he kept quiet: the fans around him said 'don't worry wack, we knew you were from Southampton because of your decent shoes'...

 

[SambaMaverick]

13 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

How do they know you're Saints fans anyway? Too well dressed, or something?

Reminds me of a friend of mine who got in to the Kop once. He's no wind up merchant and kept quiet, as you would.. Anyway, Saints scored but he kept quiet: the fans around him said 'don't worry wack, we knew you were from Southampton because of your decent shoes'...

 

Last time we tried to go in a city centre pub at about 11am, they checked our tickets and told us to fuck off to the Premier Inn. Never going to Wolves again, it's a dump inside the ground and out

[Convict Colony]

41 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Saints FC Cop on Twitter recommends Prince Albert by the station. Opens at 11am and apparently will take saints fans pre-game only.

Is this a pub or a a personal recommendation of where he got his done ?

[beatlesaint]

I see RM’s latest fitness update doesn’t mention Lallana. Given what he says in these things and what usually happens on match day bear little relation I’ll assume he’s not fit to avoid disappointment later 😆

Edited November 8 by beatlesaint

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

I see RM’s latest fitness update doesn’t mention Lallana. Given what he says in these things and what usually happens on match day bear little relation I’ll assume he’s not fit to avoid disappointment later 😆

We spent £110m in the summer and yet it's becoming apparent that for us to be even slightly competitive at this level we're still basically dependent on an 18 year-old, who was already at the club and who's only ever played 10 Premier League games, and a 36 year-old who could only ever manage about 65 minutes even when at the peak of his career and fitness. 

Meanwhile four of the players we recruited can't even get in the matchday squad (Cornet, Taylor, Edwards, Wood) and two are barely good enough for the bench (Les, BBD). 

If that had been my money being spunked on transfer fees, loan fees and wages, someone's getting fired. 

[macca155]

2 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

Last time we tried to go in a city centre pub at about 11am, they checked our tickets and told us to fuck off to the Premier Inn. Never going to Wolves again, it's a dump inside the ground and out

The most inhospitable place I've been to. Not a single pub would accept us, nasty atmosphere walking to the ground. Had to buy our drinks in the ground from. Ghastly fizzy pop lager as well.

Oh and we lost!!

 

 

 

[david in sweden]

It mattes not...if the players like Russell Martin, or how we cares, or supports them , because sooner or later we must turn the corner

...or the Board will make that inevitable decision that all managers know is coming if they can't deliver results.

Wolves are the next worse team to us in this league to date, and anything short of a win may see the departure of the manager

and his coaching staff and in the two weeks before the League fixtures re-start... the whole world of Saints F.C. will change. 

 

Assuming that he speaks English(?) .. the  new manager will need taxis everyday to find where Staplewood is hidden out in the forest,

and start learning the names of players  that he may never select in his squads,  and further seek to buy in his own " favourite " players

in the January window and to rapidly introduce a totally new playing formation that everyone will need to learn PDQ....  in the hope

of saving us from the almost inevitable  relegation that will follow if we continue losing games.  This is not just " a six-pointer ", but

the ultimate challenge for the club's future.       IF we can't beat Wolves......we will  be going " back to square one ", yet again.

[Whitey Grandad]

24 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

It mattes not...if the players like Russell Martin, or how we cares, or supports them , because sooner or later we must turn the corner

...or the Board will make that inevitable decision that all managers know is coming if they can't deliver results.

Wolves are the next worse team to us in this league to date, and anything short of a win may see the departure of the manager

and his coaching staff and in the two weeks before the League fixtures re-start... the whole world of Saints F.C. will change. 

 

Assuming that he speaks English(?) .. the  new manager will need taxis everyday to find where Staplewood is hidden out in the forest,

and start learning the names of players  that he may never select in his squads,  and further seek to buy in his own " favourite " players

in the January window and to rapidly introduce a totally new playing formation that everyone will need to learn PDQ....  in the hope

of saving us from the almost inevitable  relegation that will follow if we continue losing games.  This is not just " a six-pointer ", but

the ultimate challenge for the club's future.       IF we can't beat Wolves......we will  be going " back to square one ", yet again.

If Carlsberg did motivational speeches…

 

😉

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

The most inhospitable place I've been to. Not a single pub would accept us, nasty atmosphere walking to the ground. Had to buy our drinks in the ground from. Ghastly fizzy pop lager as well.

Oh and we lost!!

 

 

 

Oh good, that’s made me really enthusiastic for my first visit tomorrow!

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

We spent £110m in the summer and yet it's becoming apparent that for us to be even slightly competitive at this level we're still basically dependent on an 18 year-old, who was already at the club and who's only ever played 10 Premier League games, and a 36 year-old who could only ever manage about 65 minutes even when at the peak of his career and fitness. 

Meanwhile four of the players we recruited can't even get in the matchday squad (Cornet, Taylor, Edwards, Wood) and two are barely good enough for the bench (Les, BBD). 

If that had been my money being spunked on transfer fees, loan fees and wages, someone's getting fired. 

It was very much buy a lot of stuff and hope some of it is good. I would suggest Ramsdale and Fernandes have worked out well. Archer has the making of being a star and Sugawara is also pretty good. Add the purchases of England call-up THB and Downes and that's over half the team.

Hoping Wolves will feel obliged to come at us and leave gaps at the back. Just concerned we won't be quick enough to exploit those gaps, though am taking a megaphone to encourage the players forward and drown out RM's 'slow down' remonstrations 😉

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

It was very much buy a lot of stuff and hope some of it is good. 

Like buying an Amazon pallet?

[LGTL]

7 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Any recommendations for away pubs? I recall being turned away trying to get into any city centre pubs last time. 

Birmingham. 

[coalman]

37 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Hoping Wolves will feel obliged to come at us and leave gaps at the back. Just concerned we won't be quick enough to exploit those gaps, though am taking a megaphone to encourage the players forward and drown out RM's 'slow down' remonstrations 😉

History tells us Wolves will sit back and then nick a winner from us.

[Morse]

Wolves v Saints like two bald men fighting over a comb. 

[Andy Hill]

Not optimistic at all - Wolves have a much stronger squad than us.

[Sarnia Cherie]

4 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

Not optimistic at all - Wolves have a much stronger squad than us.

Ramsdale aside, I would agree with you. 

[6ft8saint]

On 06/11/2024 at 12:50, pimpin4rizeal said:

         Ramsdale 

yuki   Thb stephens.  Kwp 

          Downwa 

       Aribo   Fernandes 

dibling.       Archer.  Armstrong 

strongest line up we can put out atm 

gets arma in whilst only losing manning .. slight personal preference for aribo  over lallana and jack over bednarek 

Are you losing your mind stephens was a calamity against Everton. He needs to go back to being Sammy the Saint again. He's div 1 at best and taking up space on the team. Give thb the captain band. It worked for England under 21. Give stephens away on a free or pay someone to take him 

[6ft8saint]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If Carlsberg did motivational speeches…

 

😉

12m gravestone stops them sacking RM 

His contract is nearly the same as ten haag

[Turkish]

Just now, 6ft8saint said:

12m gravestone stops them sacking RM 

His contract is nearly the same as ten haag

6ft 8, joined the forum March 2023. Is your first name Paul by any chance?

[Toussaint]

53 minutes ago, Turkish said:

6ft 8, joined the forum March 2023. Is your first name Paul by any chance?

And his second name often attracts the phrase “bless you!”

Edited November 8 by Toussaint

[pimpin4rizeal]

41 minutes ago, 6ft8saint said:

Are you losing your mind stephens was a calamity against Everton. He needs to go back to being Sammy the Saint again. He's div 1 at best and taking up space on the team. Give thb the captain band. It worked for England under 21. Give stephens away on a free or pay someone to take him 

That’s one game, over the years we have seen enough of bed and jack to know they are about same level .. slight preference for stephens as generally he’s better on the ball.

russ will play captain Jack anyway as he likes him more then me 

[NewYorkSaint]

It's an odd thing to admit here.  But. Um.  I actually like our team.    I've spent hours here poring over all the reasons why I shouldn't, but I'm still afflicted. What's wrong with me?