Kwp today

[Roger]

Thought he was superb. Did pretty much everything right. Think it’s important he plays on the right as makes huge difference. Hopefully without Stephens on the left. What did you think?

[davefizzy14]

KWP was class today 😊

[Football Special]

Yep had that edge back, turn of pace and can carry the ball, wish he'd sign that contract extension,  top player 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Its been extraordinary why he has not been playing.

[Patches O Houlihan]

37 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Its been extraordinary why he has not been playing.

I like KWP as much as the next man... 

BUT Last season Kyle scored 3 goals and assisted 3 goals in the Championship.

This season Yuki has already scored 1 and assisted 2 goals in just 10 PL games. Kyle has 1 assist.

I think Kyle is better at taking on his man, but Yuki is a better crosser. Bearing in mind the higher standard of the league I could understand the argument for playing an offensive RB who can pass a ball suitable for any one of our strike force (oxymoron surely!), particularly when Kyle can also play LB.

But of course we have seen that KWP loses 10% of his edge playing on the left, and against PL opposition that makes a bigger difference than it did last season.

It's a tough call to make as a manager I think. Personally I'm happy to know that we already have a great RB in the building when Kyle gets sold in January. I'll be sad to see him go, but more sad if he had been keen to sign a new contract.

Edited November 2 by Patches O Houlihan

[SWLondon Saint]

1 hour ago, Roger said:

Thought he was superb. Did pretty much everything right. Think it’s important he plays on the right as makes huge difference. Hopefully without Stephens on the left. What did you think?

I actually think if Martin is determined to keep playing Manning, which I think he probably is, it's better if KWP plays on the left as he can get forward and play as a winger to take on defenders. He's one of the best in our team for going past players and that's something we desperately need. Also, AA will be starting on the right for the foreseeable after scoring today and he tracks back well so I think Suga, who is still a bit off the pace defensively but good at crossing, is a worthwhile risk.

[chiknsmack]

I took notes on Downes in the first half because I've been really disappointed in him slowing down the attack and wanted to know if I was just biased and remembering all the times he turned back while ignoring all the times he went forward.

35 notable plays in the first half (33 touches, two others; pressing Pickford and letting a man run past him on the break). Six positive plays, 11 negative, the rest neutral.

He does turn back as much as I think he does. On one of his neutral plays he received the pass from Fernandes while wide open in space, looked to turn and play back before eventually doing the right thing and playing forward. Even one of the six positive plays was one where he was slow to make himself available and slow to play a pass just outside his own box, but eventually played it forward/wide to KWP. His instinct is to play backwards, probably in large part because he receives the ball either with his back to goal or his back to the right-hand touchline (which, being right-footed, sees him want to play passes to his left, ie. backwards).

In the second half when he switched to the left of the midfield two and Aribo came on on the right, the KWP/Aribo connection was MUCH better than the KWP/Downes one.

You could argue for Aribo on the right and Downes on the left of a midfield two (as we saw after Aribo came on), but I think there's also an argument the midfield two should be Lallana on the left and KWP on the right, with Sugawara at RB. On paper Lallana and KWP sounds like a lightweight pairing, but they're both very good with the ball and both very experienced. In games where Russball works and we control possession (obviously I'd prefer to be more defensive-minded against clearly better sides) we're likely to see more attacking action from that pairing than from Downes and anyone. If Lallana can only play 45 minutes you then have Downes to come on and shore things up if needed (ideally on the left where he's more inclined to play forward).

It was notable that today's gameplan led to many occasions where Downes was the furthest man forward. I'd much rather have KWP being the furthest man forward in those situations; he's more likely to pick the right pass or score a goal.

Plus KWP in midfield gets both him and Sugawara on the park, when they're two of the best 5-8 players in the whole squad; certainly both better than Downes.

[Wurzel]

14 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

I took notes on Downes in the first half because I've been really disappointed in him slowing down the attack and wanted to know if I was just biased and remembering all the times he turned back while ignoring all the times he went forward.

35 notable plays in the first half (33 touches, two others; pressing Pickford and letting a man run past him on the break). Six positive plays, 11 negative, the rest neutral.

He does turn back as much as I think he does. On one of his neutral plays he received the pass from Fernandes while wide open in space, looked to turn and play back before eventually doing the right thing and playing forward. Even one of the six positive plays was one where he was slow to make himself available and slow to play a pass just outside his own box, but eventually played it forward/wide to KWP. His instinct is to play backwards, probably in large part because he receives the ball either with his back to goal or his back to the right-hand touchline (which, being right-footed, sees him want to play passes to his left, ie. backwards).

In the second half when he switched to the left of the midfield two and Aribo came on on the right, the KWP/Aribo connection was MUCH better than the KWP/Downes one.

You could argue for Aribo on the right and Downes on the left of a midfield two (as we saw after Aribo came on), but I think there's also an argument the midfield two should be Lallana on the left and KWP on the right, with Sugawara at RB. On paper Lallana and KWP sounds like a lightweight pairing, but they're both very good with the ball and both very experienced. In games where Russball works and we control possession (obviously I'd prefer to be more defensive-minded against clearly better sides) we're likely to see more attacking action from that pairing than from Downes and anyone. If Lallana can only play 45 minutes you then have Downes to come on and shore things up if needed (ideally on the left where he's more inclined to play forward).

It was notable that today's gameplan led to many occasions where Downes was the furthest man forward. I'd much rather have KWP being the furthest man forward in those situations; he's more likely to pick the right pass or score a goal.

Plus KWP in midfield gets both him and Sugawara on the park, when they're two of the best 5-8 players in the whole squad; certainly both better than Downes.

Agree 100% with those suggestions.

[gio1saints]

On 03/11/2024 at 01:41, chiknsmack said:

I took notes on Downes in the first half because I've been really disappointed in him slowing down the attack and wanted to know if I was just biased and remembering all the times he turned back while ignoring all the times he went forward.

35 notable plays in the first half (33 touches, two others; pressing Pickford and letting a man run past him on the break). Six positive plays, 11 negative, the rest neutral.

He does turn back as much as I think he does. On one of his neutral plays he received the pass from Fernandes while wide open in space, looked to turn and play back before eventually doing the right thing and playing forward. Even one of the six positive plays was one where he was slow to make himself available and slow to play a pass just outside his own box, but eventually played it forward/wide to KWP. His instinct is to play backwards, probably in large part because he receives the ball either with his back to goal or his back to the right-hand touchline (which, being right-footed, sees him want to play passes to his left, ie. backwards).

In the second half when he switched to the left of the midfield two and Aribo came on on the right, the KWP/Aribo connection was MUCH better than the KWP/Downes one.

You could argue for Aribo on the right and Downes on the left of a midfield two (as we saw after Aribo came on), but I think there's also an argument the midfield two should be Lallana on the left and KWP on the right, with Sugawara at RB. On paper Lallana and KWP sounds like a lightweight pairing, but they're both very good with the ball and both very experienced. In games where Russball works and we control possession (obviously I'd prefer to be more defensive-minded against clearly better sides) we're likely to see more attacking action from that pairing than from Downes and anyone. If Lallana can only play 45 minutes you then have Downes to come on and shore things up if needed (ideally on the left where he's more inclined to play forward).

It was notable that today's gameplan led to many occasions where Downes was the furthest man forward. I'd much rather have KWP being the furthest man forward in those situations; he's more likely to pick the right pass or score a goal.

Plus KWP in midfield gets both him and Sugawara on the park, when they're two of the best 5-8 players in the whole squad; certainly both better than Downes.

Interesting analysis. Thank you. Bears out what I’d been thinking vis Downes propensity to play forwards.
It does seem he is the key go backwards hold possession passer a lot of the time. 

Maybe, against championship teams, our squad was superior so endlessly recycling the ball as Flynn tends to do ends up being a good thing as we end up facing against all the opposition and or their weakest area eventually. But in the EPL I think the endlessly recycling thing is not so effective and, there’s good players everywhere and so if we are in a promising but unusual position on the pitch, and flynns got it, it’s probably not going to be a chance creation or a shot - whereas with some of the other names mentioned you’d feel it more likely. 
All last season games without Flynn we were obviously not as good. IMO. BUT This season he actually may, arguably, be holding us back - especially when you consider Fernandes and Dibling and Lallana Yuki and KWP all seem switched onto “find a goal mode”. The absence of Smallbone has also raised my eyebrow. Has that been a blessing or not? He certainly was making late runs into the box last year that Flynn cannot. But, and this is probably his defence, playing as that 6 I guess he is responsible for ball retention and recycling so maybe should not criticise him too much as he’s the best we have in that role!