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January Transfer Window 2025

Master Bates

By Master Bates
in The Saints

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

Of all our players, Downes has been the one who has disappointed me the most.

He was arguably pivotal to us last year, we couldn't handle the midfield without him - so I thought both himself and THB would make the step up a little more comfortably than they have. Downes has been awful, really weak, really slow and caught out way too much at this level. Our biggest issue this year has been a lack of midfield structure and he is culpable in that, he's just looked out of his depth.

  • Like 13
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Of all our players, Downes has been the one who has disappointed me the most.

He was arguably pivotal to us last year, we couldn't handle the midfield without him - so I thought both himself and THB would make the step up a little more comfortably than they have. Downes has been awful, really weak, really slow and caught out way too much at this level. Our biggest issue this year has been a lack of midfield structure and he is culpable in that, he's just looked out of his depth.

Really dissapointing. We would not miss him or AA if they went out on loan today. Next season is a different matter though. Acquiring one of the best midfielders in the championship in the summer won't be easy - and that's exactly what we will need to do if we want to get promoted.  

suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Chez said:

I cant recall here being so many Saints players that are linked to moves in a January window.

I was just about to post something on the same lines.. We've also got BBD and Cornet off the payroll. Looking at all the possibilities on an individual basis you probably couldn't argue with any of them, although the youth of SAA means there might be more upside there, but replacing so many players at once would be an issue.

Mind you, to argue against myself the recruitment of Welington and Groenbaek seems reasonable.

We have Edozie due for return: does anyone know off the top of their head how he's doing?

What also puzzles me about our use of the academy is how we let the 15 year old junior international with a 'tache go - Garcia? - as surely we can pay more than the French side he went to?

 

 

notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Long Shot said:

It’s quite something that it looks like our two most potent and first choice strikers are two players Russell Martin would have quite happily sold for peanuts. 
The lesson for me is don’t write players off until you’ve had a long look and given them a decent run in the team. Danso another one we messed around. Hope SAA is not another. 

Potent 😂 I guess it’s all relative. 

goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

We have Edozie due for return: does anyone know off the top of their head how he's doing?

14 league games: 2 goals, 1 assist (7.1 rating)

3 cup games: 0 goals or assists (7.8 rating)

Europa: 4 games, 1 goal no assists (7.4 rating)

He’s been injured for their last 5 league games.

Edited by goodymatt
  • Like 4
Danbert

Danbert

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

We have Edozie due for return: does anyone know off the top of their head how he's doing?

3 goals and 3 assists in 21 games for Anderlecht. I think he gets subbed a fair bit. A bit meh really

  • Like 1
SW5 SAINT

SW5 SAINT

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Well, he's heading there next season.

Who is going to tell him he’s more chance of playing in the Prem next season at Middlesbrough, than at Southampton……?

S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Chez said:

Really dissapointing. We would not miss him or AA if they went out on loan today. Next season is a different matter though. Acquiring one of the best midfielders in the championship in the summer won't be easy - and that's exactly what we will need to do if we want to get promoted.  

If anything illustrates how big the gap has become it's those two. Absolute cheat codes in the Championship, but physically lacking in the PL. 

It's really difficult to compete, you need so much power and pace in the top flight nowadays - not just up front, but all over the pitch. 10-15 years ago we got promoted with Cork, Fonte, Morgan etc - I wouldn't say they were particularly powerful or quick, but they were able to adapt. If the same guys came up now I can't say they'd fare as well.

  • Like 1
goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

If ever there was a player nailed on to end up in Turkey, it was Lemina.

We loaned him to Gala previously as well, going back for round 2. Good riddance.

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

If anything illustrates how big the gap has become it's those two. Absolute cheat codes in the Championship, but physically lacking in the PL. 

It's really difficult to compete, you need so much power and pace in the top flight nowadays - not just up front, but all over the pitch. 10-15 years ago we got promoted with Cork, Fonte, Morgan etc - I wouldn't say they were particularly powerful or quick, but they were able to adapt. If the same guys came up now I can't say they'd fare as well.

I'm with you. You have to absolutely amazing with the ball and/or an athlete, but I disagree a little on the player evaluations and think all three would be just as effective. Morgan was incredibly quick across the ground, snuffing out breaks from even the quickest opponents with ease. He was very strong too, although perhaps both assets increased over the years rather than him havong them in that first season back? Fonte was a pretty strong fella. Not quick though. I agree there. Cork had an incredible engine and covered every blade of grass. He was stronger and more dynamic than Downes I'd say.  

Your point still stands though. You simply have to be special to stamp your authority at the top level. Armstrong is (supposedly) quick, so you would think he would be dagerous, but he just doesn't seem to believe in himself, and without that confidence you are done for. Downes seemed to be quicker and fitter than everyone else he was up against last season. That's not the case this, so he isnt dominating. Insteda of seeing him regain possession, we are just seeing him lose it.  

  • Like 2
OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Chez said:

He has 18 months left.

The argument might be that he could be loaned out for the remainer of this season (his wages would be paid by the loaning club) and then in the summer (having seen how he has done out on loan), and with a year left, we could decide if we want him for the Championship season ahead. If not, we sell him in the summer. If we decided to keep him, it would be to play him. If he was then playing every week, I'd imagine he might sign a new contract. That is a risk of course.

My guess is the manager just doesn't think he is good enough at this point in his carrer and unlikely to be a starter next season either. He's not had long to come to that decision. But he will watch him at training every day and if he just doesn't beat his man or do things to impress in training, the conclusion is going to be that he isn't up to the necessary standard. There has to be some trust in the manager's eye...assuming he is going to be here next seaosn too. 

  

I know its 2026 but not sure exactly when his contract is up.

The club will have got the vibes from his agent and SAA attitude. If we loan him out he comes back with less than a year or even a year on his contract left he still will potentially run his contract down. Take the money for him now as in a years time it may be half. Juric i assume has told them he doesnt rate him enough and from what ive seen hes pretty lightweight, modern football needs a bit more physicality I believe, especially trying to get promoted in the Championship

saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Of all our players, Downes has been the one who has disappointed me the most.

He was arguably pivotal to us last year, we couldn't handle the midfield without him - so I thought both himself and THB would make the step up a little more comfortably than they have. Downes has been awful, really weak, really slow and caught out way too much at this level. Our biggest issue this year has been a lack of midfield structure and he is culpable in that, he's just looked out of his depth.

Unfortunately, and I think West Ham probably knew it, being a very good Championship player is the max level for Downes.

  • Like 1
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I know its 2026 but not sure exactly when his contract is up.

The club will have got the vibes from his agent and SAA attitude. If we loan him out he comes back with less than a year or even a year on his contract left he still will potentially run his contract down. Take the money for him now as in a years time it may be half. Juric i assume has told them he doesnt rate him enough and from what ive seen hes pretty lightweight, modern football needs a bit more physicality I believe, especially trying to get promoted in the Championship

Personally,  haven't see enough to forge an opinion.

In the end you have to trust the manager to make the right decision. Juric isn't going to allow a guy to leave that he thinks is special, but just needs a little more time. Ultimately he might be wrong, but he won't make a decision like that lightly.

Sometimes you have to let a player go. He might make it in the end, but the timing may not be quite right. We mighy have to wait another three years before he is good enough. We could offer him £50k a week for five years to keep him here and see if it pans out, but isn't making that kid of invstment that just a big a gamble as selling him? 

 

  • Like 2
goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mr Saints said:

 

I'm 99% sure this is at least the 4th time he's signed for them?!

We loaned him there in 2019. Now looks to be heading back on a perm. Morale of the story, when you get found out, go to Turkey!

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Dman said:

Do we still have a loan spot for a PL side? surely we'd make the most of that if we do.. 

I guess you need to consider what the purpose of the loan is. The Grobaek loan seems to be a trial for next season. Les' loan is different because it was last summer and the aim was to stay up.

Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Chez said:

Personally,  haven't see enough to forge an opinion.

In the end you have to trust the manager to make the right decision. Juric isn't going to allow a guy to leave that he thinks is special, but just needs a little more time. Ultimately he might be wrong, but he won't make a decision like that lightly.

Sometimes you have to let a player go. He might make it in the end, but the timing may not be quite right. We mighy have to wait another three years before he is good enough. We could offer him £50k a week for five years to keep him here and see if it pans out, but isn't making that kid of invstment that just a big a gamble as selling him? 

 

I'm not sure you know how this forum works chez 🤣

  • Like 1
  • Haha 10
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Chez said:

I'm with you. You have to absolutely amazing with the ball and/or an athlete, but I disagree a little on the player evaluations and think all three would be just as effective. Morgan was incredibly quick across the ground, snuffing out breaks from even the quickest opponents with ease. He was very strong too, although perhaps both assets increased over the years rather than him havong them in that first season back? Fonte was a pretty strong fella. Not quick though. I agree there. Cork had an incredible engine and covered every blade of grass. He was stronger and more dynamic than Downes I'd say.  

Your point still stands though. You simply have to be special to stamp your authority at the top level. Armstrong is (supposedly) quick, so you would think he would be dagerous, but he just doesn't seem to believe in himself, and without that confidence you are done for. Downes seemed to be quicker and fitter than everyone else he was up against last season. That's not the case this, so he isnt dominating. Insteda of seeing him regain possession, we are just seeing him lose it.  

I think they evolved physically, certainly Morgan. But 10-15 years ago the league allowed players like that to evolve and adapt if you know what I mean, you don't get a chance these days - you have to be ready straight away.

I even look at some of Ipswich buys, top Champ players in Clarke (absolute cheat code down there) and Greaves at CB - but Clarke in particular hasn't been able to adapt at all.

Maybe spending big on 2 or 3 'ready' players to lift the overall level of the squad would help, and allow these guys some room to evolve - but I think we've just thrown Downes and THB (as two examples) into the lions den and expected them to evolve and grow on the job. Not sure that's possible anymore.

Edited by S-Clarke
  • Like 1
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, goodymatt said:

 

A buy clause certainly makes more sense if we're giving them SAA with a buy clause.

Not sure we'll be spending £15m on both him and Albert in the Championship though, gives us an option though I guess.

Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Chez said:

I guess you need to consider what the purpose of the loan is. The Grobaek loan seems to be a trial for next season. Les' loan is different because it was last summer and the aim was to stay up.

Feels like there could be a try before you buy option for a youngster for next season. 

I still feel like were a CM short - maybe a number 9 as well. 

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Feels like there could be a try before you buy option for a youngster for next season. 

I still feel like were a CM short - maybe a number 9 as well. 

If Downes doesn't play anymore then we absolutely need someone else. Uguchukwu can't play on his own for the rest of the season. 

musesaint

musesaint

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Monk said:

I won't lie gents, I think the Sam AA deal might just tip me over the edge with Saints, I'm just going to follow non-league. 

Is anybody else utterly fucked off at that one? Just feels a very poor, poor footballing and business decision. 

100% agree. WTF are the club doing?? Useless 

miserableoldgit

miserableoldgit

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Yes.  Well done Sherlock.  I don’t rate him.

So you don't/didn't "rate" a player that scored 24 goals and had 13 assists in 52 appearances?  Well, Watson......we have a real mystery here......

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Yes.  Well done Sherlock.  I don’t rate him.

 

10 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

So you don't/didn't "rate" a player that scored 24 goals and had 13 assists in 52 appearances?  Well, Watson......we have a real mystery here......

Odd, I don't recall this conversation...

Now to read other comments to see how our buy one get one half price player sale is going.

Göztepe

Göztepe

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 saat önce, Türkçe dedi ki:

 

Transfer piyasasına göre 600 bin avro değerinde. 8 milyon sterlin ve Gotekpe'ye kiralandığını mı düşünüyorsunuz?

Göztepe does not make many foreign transfers under 1.80. 

 
 
Edited by Göztepe
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Of all our players, Downes has been the one who has disappointed me the most.

He was arguably pivotal to us last year, we couldn't handle the midfield without him - so I thought both himself and THB would make the step up a little more comfortably than they have. Downes has been awful, really weak, really slow and caught out way too much at this level. Our biggest issue this year has been a lack of midfield structure and he is culpable in that, he's just looked out of his depth.

True, but the way Martin set-up the midfield this wasn't surprising. We were often overrun in the Champ.

In PL Downes needs to play as one of two CMs making a box with the CBs, something he's never been allowed to do.

  • Like 2
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, goodymatt said:

We loaned him there in 2019. Now looks to be heading back on a perm. Morale of the story, when you get found out, go to Turkey!

And if shit hits the fan, there's always Saudi.

  • Like 1
Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

So you don't/didn't "rate" a player that scored 24 goals and had 13 assists in 52 appearances?  Well, Watson......we have a real mystery here......

No, I don’t .  Is that ok with you?

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