January Transfer Window 2025

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Why would this need to happen?

In the summer it will either be Juric carrying on or a new guy. Like we did, for example, with Russell Martin. We will not go into the start of next season with some kind of interim/caretaker/trainee manager.

 

Maybe, maybe not, but do you really think SR have the track record to suggest they will opt for a manager with some form of pedigree? Or will Rasmus press for a hipster type with promise as previously? Under the circumstances of a demoralised decimated squad, I think Lallana might not be the worst of options!

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

We can buy and sell as many players as the situation allows but transfers in or out are not the problem - the elephant in the room is clearly quality as for a number of years transfer dealings have been handled by people who have no clue what they are doing. Both Brentford and Nottingham Forest have managed to unearth gems for very little money proving what can be done. So, unless we appoint a DoF and some scouts with a bit of nous and ability to spot untapped talent we will continue to throw good money after bad and pick up players who will cost far more than they are worth and not improve the squad. I'm not saying we've not had successes but if a blind man throws enough darts at a board he'll eventually hit the bullseye. There will be unknown talents available but it takes a lot of hard work and skill to identify them - we need to appoint people who have the necessary attributes or the mess will continue. It may take intervention from Dragan because I get the feeling Rasmus and his merry band of charlatans have no problem with maintaining the status quo and are probably afraid of appointing a good DoF as they will be quickly rumbled and their game may finally be up.

Good post - another who recognises it’s not just about moving heads in and out - we need a step change in quality regarding fitness and skill, especially in the DM and striker areas. Quantity over quality has for years been a blind spot it seems and it stems from poor management such as Lowe and now SR/Rasmus. We really turned a corner when Cortese/Markus came in and that continued right through to the time of Pelle/Mane/Tadic/Van Dyke etc. After that the scouting and recruitment turned to rat shit. Ralph tried to sort it out, but ultimately failed due to very poor backing. And here we are, paying the cost.

[imadirtyurchin]

For me: I think this window is about selling/loaning those we can in order to trim the squad. I would prefer not to spend too much this window - staying up is very very unlikely so we shouldn’t chase it - but there’s no reason why with an addition of a competent midfielder capable of pressing/tackling/playing in this league, and a striker capable of competing physically with enough pace and skill to trouble the opposition  whilst being able to hold up the ball - then we should be able to be competitive and not get thrashed every game. With the goal being that we go down with our heads held high having beaten Derby’s point total. That would be a win for me at this point. We need to get these signings right and with the core of our squad that should be enough. Next time if we get to the pl we need to shop in the £30m range and buy 3 players that are quality enough to improve the first team. Not buy 9 players at 10million that bulk out the squad but aren’t good enough - the money spent is the same. It’s been the problem every time we’ve ended up with a poor first team and a massive shit squad. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

The thing is will sports republic want to be seen as just giving up ?.. I mean keeping Martin well past his expiry date and doing nothing about it afterwards is basically throwing our premier league status away in November! It’s not a good look at all..

their actions have rendered all the hard work from last season pointless 

Edited yesterday at 10:16 by pimpin4rizeal

[Convict Colony]

Do whatever is going to give us the most spending possible in the championship.

Also ensure we continue to play the same style we are trying now next season so we have at least continuity with whatever players we retain and buy players who fit that style from now on.

I massively assume Juric will go back to italy in the summer and Rohl will be hired (as I am guessing here that hisand his staffs release clause value was specifically for in season moves) hence the high amount.

 

[revolution saint]

Given the lack of any rumours it’s probably safe to say this window will be relatively quiet.

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Given the lack of any rumours it’s probably safe to say this window will be relatively quiet.

Is it a ‘busy’ window for other clubs? Not sure it is - at present anyway. It will almost certainly get busier towards the end of the window as the January sales kick in and idiots like Rasmus start getting itchy trigger fingers.

[badgerx16]

Surely there will be our usual last minute inbound overpriced striker that nobody has heard of, probably injured.

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Surely there will be our usual last minute inbound overpriced striker that nobody has heard of, probably injured.

Not even Rasmus has those levels of stupidity. Has he? 🤔😳😬

[revolution saint]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Is it a ‘busy’ window for other clubs? Not sure it is - at present anyway. It will almost certainly get busier towards the end of the window as the January sales kick in and idiots like Rasmus start getting itchy trigger fingers.

TBH I haven’t been looking at other clubs but would have expected a few rumours if we were targeting a position and from what I can tell there doesn’t seem to be many.  Personally think it’s probably best to have a quiet one anyway. If we have an opportunity to shift some on then great but incoming should wait till the summer 

[beatlesaint]

Clinging to the hope RM gets a job before the end of the month and offers us money - any money, even £50 - to take his mate Stephens off our hands so they can enjoy many beautiful moments together at another club !! 

[East Kent Saint]

25 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Given the lack of any rumours it’s probably safe to say this window will be relatively quiet.

We'll have to rely on CoT for a heads up 🙂

[CB Fry]

46 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Maybe, maybe not, but do you really think SR have the track record to suggest they will opt for a manager with some form of pedigree? Or will Rasmus press for a hipster type with promise as previously? Under the circumstances of a demoralised decimated squad, I think Lallana might not be the worst of options!

Russell Martin did get us promoted to be fair to them and him.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

45 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Russell Martin did get us promoted to be fair to them and him.

Had we not got promoted I wonder where we would be today. Probably in a better position than we are currently, although whether Martin and his style of football would still be popular a moot point.

[SaintNewForest]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Given the lack of any rumours it’s probably safe to say this window will be relatively quiet.

They're having their planning meeting today ... gotta give them a chance to get organised, not like the windows been open for a week or anything 🤣

[LeBizzier69]

Can’t we at least get in a half decent free agent striker in until the end of the season? Not looked at who’s available but it might at least brighten things up a bit if we could see the onion bag bulge a couple of times.

[Ken Tone]

If it were down to me, I'd try to offload as many of the also- rans from the squad, bring back Shea Charles, and try to sign a striker that actually scores.

It's very unlikely that any striker who's successful in England will want to come to us for a relegation, but one from abroad might want to, to show they can do it in the Premier league and hope to be signed by another PL club in the summer.  That will be a risk of course because success abroad doesn't guarantee success here but we don't have much choice unless we just give up.

[Weston Super Saint]

47 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Had we not got promoted I wonder where we would be today. Probably in a better position than we are currently, although whether Martin and his style of football would still be popular a moot point.

We would be in a worse position financially as we would be in Championship with 2nd year of parachute payments compared to being in the PL with TV income and guaranteed 1st year of parachute payments next season.

In terms of league position we would potentially be higher than 20th, but that is not a given as many teams had already worked Martin's tactics out by the end of last season...

[Weston Super Saint]

15 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

If it were down to me, I'd try to offload as many of the also- rans from the squad, bring back Shea Charles, and try to sign a striker that actually scores.

 

So almost identical to the last couple of seasons then. Cunning, very cunning.

[DT]

The absolute best and most crucial transfer would be to get Rasmus Ankersen out of this club before he ruins it even further with his hopeless Poundland Moneyballing. 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Had we not got promoted I wonder where we would be today. Probably in a better position than we are currently, although whether Martin and his style of football would still be popular a moot point.

Not sure we would be in a better position. The parachute payment for year 2 in the championship would have been about £36m. Instead we will get about £120m for being in the Prem for one season - plus another four years of parachute payments. That extra money (not to mention extra money from commercial) has allowed us to buy THB, Downes, Ramsdale and Fernandes which would probably have been out of our reach if we have stayed in the championship. They may now go, but right now they are assets which we wouldn't have. If they do go, the funds can be reinvested to help create another promotion challenging side.

We have no idea how we would have fared in the championship this season. We may have thrived, but the likes of Burnley and Sheffield United would have made it hard to get promoted. The budget would have needed to be cut by about £9m (due to smaller parachute payment in year 2), so we may have been a worse team than the previous season. Promotion was a godsend not a burden.

[miserableoldgit]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Russell Martin did get us promoted to be fair to them and him.

Yes, but don't forget that we were promoted despite RM, not because of him. With the squad that he had at his disposal, we should have walked the division, not limp in by way of the Play-offs.........apparently. And don't forget that Nigel Adkins was useless because he didn't actually win the divisions during both of his promotions. That's how these things work, you know.

[Saint Fan CaM]

22 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Yes, but don't forget that we were promoted despite RM, not because of him. With the squad that he had at his disposal, we should have walked the division, not limp in by way of the Play-offs.........apparently. And don't forget that Nigel Adkins was useless because he didn't actually win the divisions during both of his promotions. That's how these things work, you know.

Obviously he had a part to play in being chums with the squad, utilising the sub-standard players by persistently playing slug football. But let’s not dress up what was boring to watch and which saw us only just make it through the play-off final by one goal. It did a job yes, but SR/Martin didn’t recognise the gap in fitness and skill level that existed between the Championship and EPL and the level of player that would be needed to sustain survival. Martin was so naive that he thought he could make the likes of Manning and Stephens into winners against the best in Europe playing the same slug tactics.

On the other hand, Adkins achieved two successive auto promotions with a smaller budget, playing expansive entertaining football. And he kept us out of the relegation zone when we went up to the Prem. You need to have a re-think if you can’t see there’s a world of difference between the two and I know which era I derived more pleasure from (not Martins).

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Ken Tone said:

If it were down to me, I'd try to offload as many of the also- rans from the squad, bring back Shea Charles, and try to sign a striker that actually scores.

It's very unlikely that any striker who's successful in England will want to come to us for a relegation, but one from abroad might want to, to show they can do it in the Premier league and hope to be signed by another PL club in the summer.  That will be a risk of course because success abroad doesn't guarantee success here but we don't have much choice unless we just give up.

I’m genuinely interested in knowing how you would cancel player contracts without huge cost to the club (even if it was legally possible)? And even if the club managed to ship out players in this manner, what kind of message would that send out to prospective incoming players? If we’re not the most unattractive club in the top 3 divisions of most European countries right now, I reckon that would do the trick. The best we can hope for is that Juric is telling certain players they are no longer needed and they’re working furiously with their agents to get a move away before they have a relegation on the CV’s.

[Fabrice29]

25 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

let’s not dress up what was boring to watch

playing expansive entertaining football. 

That extra point, man it must have been good.

Edited 21 hours ago by Fabrice29

[Chez]

10 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I’m genuinely interested in knowing how you would cancel player contracts without huge cost to the club (even if it was legally possible)? And even if the club managed to ship out players in this manner, what kind of message would that send out to prospective incoming players? If we’re not the most unattractive club in the top 3 divisions of most European countries right now, I reckon that would do the trick. The best we can hope for is that Juric is telling certain players they are no longer needed and they’re working furiously with their agents to get a move away before they have a relegation on the CV’s.

When Ken Tone says "offload" he is probably talking about trying to sell our players (or allow them to leave for free) not paying up their contracts.

No club ever wants to pay up a player contract, but they will do so as a last resort when they player won't leave or no one wants them (and perhaps they are stinking up the place) and you can agree a deal that possibly saves the club a few quid. 

[Pamplemousse]

Absolutely agree Shea Charles should be recalled. He MUST be better than Joe Aribo in that position at least.

Mateus Fernandes was able to make the step up pretty quickly, he and Downes with Charles would make a pretty decent midfield three.

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Absolutely agree Shea Charles should be recalled. He MUST be better than Joe Aribo in that position at least.

Mateus Fernandes was able to make the step up pretty quickly, he and Downes with Charles would make a pretty decent midfield three.

There is probably some merit to this and I'm open to the idea that Charles has improved this year, which was always likely to happen but I do think people are forgetting that the jump is quite big and Charles and Aribo were in the same team last season and one did a lot better than the other (albeit in different roles). Performances for Sheffield Wednesday don't just translate into performances for us in the PL in a struggling team.

[Fabrice29]

30 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

The best we can hope for is that Juric is telling certain players they are no longer needed and they’re working furiously with their agents to get a move away before they have a relegation on the CV’s.

Would also quite like to remind people that quite a lot of our players already have a relegation on their CV's, whether with us or elsewhere.

[Saint Fan CaM]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Would also quite like to remind people that quite a lot of our players already have a relegation on their CV's, whether with us or elsewhere.

Mmm, if that’s true and I’m not disputing it, it makes you wonder if that little nugget of information was ever factored into the recruitment decision in the first place? Not to mentioned being crocked for X months. How many relegations do each of the Bournemouth players have on their CV’s I wonder? Genuine question.

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

I thought we were pretty entertaining most of the time. If I understand the term correctly, we were expansive too. We conceded a lot of goals, which was worrying, especially knowing it would be harder to keep clean sheets this season, but we scored a lot too. Some of the goals were fabulous one end to the other passing moves. For the most part we were a good side. Perhaps flat track bullies, but better than I thought we would be. And that's important in assessing RM. What were your expectations at the start of the season?

Over the course of the season expectations grew very quickly, so any poor performances really had fans moaning. The way Hull and Leicester murdered us not only destroyed straight promotion hopes but really hit home that we weren't a great side. Over the course of the season fans quickly forgot that the manager inherited a fucking nightmare situation of talent leaving right left and centre, unhappy players remaining and having to get a disjointed side with no pattern of play galvanised and winning quick sharp. No easy task. RM did a bloody good job there. The idea we were promoted despite RM rather than because of him is disingenuous.

Don't get me wrong, I recognise his failings. To be honest I was never a fan or really convinced by him, but after seeing us in the championship with Baguss (then Burley) at the helm, I wasn't expecting us to go straight back up, so was happy that we did it, even if it was through the play offs.     

None of this has anything to do with the transfer window of course, but in this vacuum (a real shame as I love discussing potential targets) there is not much to talk about. I started to look at talented Championship players that wont be promoted that we can sign in the summer, but it's folly to even discuss them as Sheff United or whoever are more likely to get them.

[Saint Fan CaM]

27 minutes ago, Chez said:

When Ken Tone says "offload" he is probably talking about trying to sell our players (or allow them to leave for free) not paying up their contracts.

No club ever wants to pay up a player contract, but they will do so as a last resort when they player won't leave or no one wants them (and perhaps they are stinking up the place) and you can agree a deal that possibly saves the club a few quid. 

I get it, but how many times does it happen? Not too many I would wager and if it were possible, then why are the likes of ABK and Stewart still hanging around wasting wages etc.?

[Chez]

22 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Absolutely agree Shea Charles should be recalled. He MUST be better than Joe Aribo in that position at least.

he wasn't last year - he played like Les is doing this year. Aribo came into the side and our central midfield looked a lot better. If Charles has blossomed, then that is great, but looking good in the championship doesn't mean he will cut in in the Prem in a struggling side.

[Chez]

15 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Would also quite like to remind people that quite a lot of our players already have a relegation on their CV's, whether with us or elsewhere.

No one gives a fuck if a player was part of a relegated side anyway. Dibling gets relegated, scouts are not marking him down for that.

[Chez]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I get it, but how many times does it happen? Not too many I would wager and if it were possible, then why are the likes of ABK and Stewart still hanging around wasting wages etc.?

Hardly ever. We did it with Carillo, but you are not going to do it early as there is every chance someone takes a punt on them - thus saving you money. You might even have an injury crisis and need to play them, or a new manager gives them a second or third chance. There has to be pretty much no hope that you can get a return or use out of them.

Anyway, as I said, I think Ken meant look to sell unwanted players, which by and large we will all agree on. Let's hope Juric or whoever picks the right ones to keep, although there probably wont be much choice. The offer you get will dictate that.

Edited 20 hours ago by Chez

[Saint Fan CaM]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

he wasn't last year - he played like Les is doing this year. Aribo came into the side and our central midfield looked a lot better. If Charles has blossomed, then that is great, but looking good in the championship doesn't mean he will cut in in the Prem in a struggling side.

My view is that as a young lad learning his trade, he suffered the Russball system imposed on him and got found out. Not really fair to judge either him or Big Les based on the chaos that system presented the team.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, miserableoldgit said:

Yes, but don't forget that we were promoted despite RM, not because of him. With the squad that he had at his disposal, we should have walked the division, not limp in by way of the Play-offs.........apparently. And don't forget that Nigel Adkins was useless because he didn't actually win the divisions during both of his promotions. That's how these things work, you know.

Do I sense the mild whiff of a Russell Martin renaissance movement getting underway?

[Fabrice29]

12 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

My view is that as a young lad learning his trade, he suffered the Russball system imposed on him and got found out. Not really fair to judge either him or Big Les based on the chaos that system presented the team.

He didn’t get found out, he was a young guy making his first step in senior football on a regular basis and wasn’t really afforded the time to make mistakes because he had slightly more experienced players in front of him and we had a promotion to win. You can blame the system all you like but he was recruited due to his up bringing in a similar system and that system got us promoted and allowed others to shine. It’s just life that he’s improving and in a slightly less pressurised environment is being allowed to find his way this season. Sorry that doesn’t suit your ‘Russball was shit and should be shouted down on every topic possible’ narrative but sometimes it’s okay for some players to play bad and then play well.

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

My view is that as a young lad learning his trade, he suffered the Russball system imposed on him and got found out. Not really fair to judge either him or Big Les based on the chaos that system presented the team.

I am not sure I agree with that. Their job is to get the ball and move it and protect the back four. No matter what Prem side you are at, that is the same task all CMs are faced with. Does RM get the blame for everything now?

I've not seen much of Les - he looked OK in one game, but most on here seem to have been unimpressed by him. The task he faces is much harder as we are struggling and the opponents strong. 

I watched all of Charles' games in the championship and he was poor IMO in a lot of them. He looked lethargic and his touch and passing was not good and to be honest he looked a bit out of his depth. I thought defensively he wasn't great either. That was last season, and quite rightly as a young player he should be given time to find his feet and a long run of games. I think Kenwyne Jones was the last fella we loaned to Wednesday and he came back and was  `superstar' for us. Hope Charles is the same.      

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Do I sense the mild whiff of a Russell Martin renaissance movement getting underway?

I've stuck for him in a few recent posts, as not everything he did was shit or everything shit was his fault, but he was given a reasonable amount of time to find a solution and he failed, so had to be sacked. Not getting a new manager bounce and our past history of sacking a manager and employing an even worse one has us wondering if we have repeated the trick.

[Saint86]

27 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Do I sense the mild whiff of a Russell Martin renaissance movement getting underway?

We're predominantly in this position because the squad is far too poor for the league. We've arguably looked even worse under Juric which says a lot frankly, and actually Rust did a better job in the interim than either of them.

Ultimately, there is a whole load of blame to go around between everyone involved. The recruitment, the players, Martin for being far too stubborn, Sports Republic generally for horrendous mismanagement across multiple layers of the club. The one thing you can say however, is that Martin did get us promoted, which financially was an absolute must - because if you think the squad and recruitment is bad this season, it would have been even worse with another season in the champ, reduced parachute payments, and the need to make yet further sales (and replace with more bloat).

What we need, is to prepare ourselves for the championship asap - as others have said, that means sorting out a serious DoF, and sorting out the recruitment and scouting. Its not going to be enough to just bounce back up, we need to build a team and playing style capable of staying up in the prem. Martin fell short on that last part and then refused to compromise and adapt for the players he had available (ultimately putting his managerial identify over what was best for the club). However, there is no point in continuing with the total mess that exists behind the scenes. SR need to get their house in order, change tact, focus on the right people with experience and ability being put in place, nailing a recruitment strategy that focuses on quality over quantity and actually trusting the academy for depth as a minimum (i.e., why was Dibling not used last season when he can skin the best defenders in the prem after a summer off?!?!?). They have wasted criminal amounts of money on fluff squad players that are not good enough - where as 2-3 quality signings would have made a world of difference - or reversing that / and in either case, finding cheaper cost effective talent (SR's whole strategy seemingly) demands quality scouting. We seemingly are unable to sign either high value or budget players at a competitive prices reliably. They've spent hundreds of millions, and the only good signings (imo) they've made have been Downes (on loan - manager's mate), THB (loan - purely a wilcox signing), and Fernandes. Edozie might still come good. Ramsdale i said at the time was £25M for a player which we could have found a good loan option instead, and then spent that money on  CDM or striker.... There is enough SR fluff in the squad to fund a mid table team if we had Brighton/Brentford's recruitment.  Huge levels of waste!

Edited 20 hours ago by Saint86

[miserableoldgit]

26 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Do I sense the mild whiff of a Russell Martin renaissance movement getting underway?

 

Definitely not! It's the re-writing/revising of history that makes me laugh.....

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

They've spent hundreds of millions, and the only good signings they've made have been Downes (on loan - manager's mate), THB (loan - purely a wilcox signing), and Fernandes. Edozie might still come good. There is enough SR fluff in the squad to fund a mid table team if we had Brighton/Brentford's recruitment.  Huge levels of waste!

Lavia and Ramsdale are good signings. Brooks was a good loan IMO. Many will argue Fraser was too.

Yeah, not a great haul considering we have spent almost €300m on transfer fees since they bought the club.

[Gloucester Saint]

Good posts by Saint86 and Chez. I broadly agree with Chez’s about Martin’s strengths and weaknesses and that the squad wasn’t necessarily top 2 material. That said, conceding well over 60 goals with a defence of KWP, THB, Jan and Manning which at that level is as good as it gets, was a huge red flag that he wasn’t setting up properly off the ball.

Had Bazanu in goal but that was his decision which he loudly defended at the fans forum. Whilst Alex has been dreadful back in the PL he looked like a 1970 Gordon Banks by comparison when he came in last season. So the first summer task is to either loan Gavin out or reach a termination settlement on his contract. He won’t make a keeper above League 1. Alex’s new contract was bonkers but we might as well use him as a back up in his final year.

On the infrastructure, Juric we will see (he might activate the release rather than the club!) but new CEO, DoF, Head of Recruitment as a minimum needing to come in. Need to recruit them now to take account of notice periods. They also require a long lead in to have an action plan to establish what assets can be sold at what brackets, dispose of Rasmus’s rubbish, retirement settlements for Stewart and Larios (if insurance will cover, settlement package if not), and work out how much that will cost Dragan. I suspect some pennies will then drop enmasse in the boardroom as facts beat bullshit.

Edited 20 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[disconnect]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

There is probably some merit to this and I'm open to the idea that Charles has improved this year, which was always likely to happen but I do think people are forgetting that the jump is quite big and Charles and Aribo were in the same team last season and one did a lot better than the other (albeit in different roles). Performances for Sheffield Wednesday don't just translate into performances for us in the PL in a struggling team.

If you're referring to Aribo being much better than Charles then I think you're being quite generous to Joe. He was fairly solid last season, with a few good games and scored 4 goals, but never looked like he was playing below his level, he played as he should - a decent to good Championship level player. For the amount of starts he had (19) he was our lowest rated player on Whoscored, aside from Captain Jack of course. Shea has now played 400 more minutes for Wednesday than his Saints career total, and is currently ranked the 7th best rated player in the Championship this season. I agree that I don't think he's going to come back and suddenly help us win the Premier League, but he was barely worse than Aribo last season and has now gained a lot more experience so could expect him to be a better option in the middle. 

That said, fingers crossed Aribo hits 20 goals between now and the end of the season and starts dominating every match!!

[Saint Fan CaM]

46 minutes ago, Chez said:

I am not sure I agree with that. Their job is to get the ball and move it and protect the back four. No matter what Prem side you are at, that is the same task all CMs are faced with. Does RM get the blame for everything now?

I've not seen much of Les - he looked OK in one game, but most on here seem to have been unimpressed by him. The task he faces is much harder as we are struggling and the opponents strong. 

I watched all of Charles' games in the championship and he was poor IMO in a lot of them. He looked lethargic and his touch and passing was not good and to be honest he looked a bit out of his depth. I thought defensively he wasn't great either. That was last season, and quite rightly as a young player he should be given time to find his feet and a long run of games. I think Kenwyne Jones was the last fella we loaned to Wednesday and he came back and was  `superstar' for us. Hope Charles is the same.      

The point I’m making is Les has improved (albeit marginally) with Juric and the system employed. I think had Charles been given that opportunity he too would have looked better than he did.

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, disconnect said:

If you're referring to Aribo being much better than Charles then I think you're being quite generous to Joe. He was fairly solid last season, with a few good games and scored 4 goals, but never looked like he was playing below his level, he played as he should - a decent to good Championship level player. For the amount of starts he had (19) he was our lowest rated player on Whoscored, aside from Captain Jack of course. Shea has now played 400 more minutes for Wednesday than his Saints career total, and is currently ranked the 7th best rated player in the Championship this season. I agree that I don't think he's going to come back and suddenly help us win the Premier League, but he was barely worse than Aribo last season and has now gained a lot more experience so could expect him to be a better option in the middle. 

That said, fingers crossed Aribo hits 20 goals between now and the end of the season and starts dominating every match!!

We should be letting Shea see out the season at Wednesday and get the full Championship season under his belt and then come back to help take us up next season.

I see no benefit to anyone in bringing Shea back to us now.

[Saint Fan CaM]

58 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

He didn’t get found out, he was a young guy making his first step in senior football on a regular basis and wasn’t really afforded the time to make mistakes because he had slightly more experienced players in front of him and we had a promotion to win. You can blame the system all you like but he was recruited due to his up bringing in a similar system and that system got us promoted and allowed others to shine. It’s just life that he’s improving and in a slightly less pressurised environment is being allowed to find his way this season. Sorry that doesn’t suit your ‘Russball was shit and should be shouted down on every topic possible’ narrative but sometimes it’s okay for some players to play bad and then play well.

OK, perhaps found out is not quite the right phrase, but Martin clearly didn’t think he was good enough for his system. Beyond that you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that players don’t operate in isolation. For example, if a ball is passed backwards to a player under pressure from a press, especially a younger less experienced player, there is more chance they’re going to make a mistake. We’ve seen a lot of that have we not? And nowhere have I said Russball is shit - that’s your simple narrative at play - what I’ve said is that the players employed by the club were not good enough to sustain Russball in the EPL and that it was in general boring to watch - even in the Championship.

Edited 19 hours ago by Saint Fan CaM

[SambaMaverick]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Do I sense the mild whiff of a Russell Martin renaissance movement getting underway?

He was by far the only problem we had, but it was the only lever we could pull to try and turn things around - we just did it too late.

I still stand by my statement that he will never be an established PL manager. He may get promoted at a different, similar sized club (a la Scott Parker) - but he's not got the tools to stick it out.

[Saint86]

56 minutes ago, Chez said:

Lavia and Ramsdale are good signings. Brooks was a good loan IMO. Many will argue Fraser was too.

Yeah, not a great haul considering we have spent almost €300m on transfer fees since they bought the club.

Lavia was a great signing agreed - but the leg work for that deal was done months in advance (by Ralph and Semmens) and this was discussed at the time of his signing. That transfer was similar to Tino (again ralph and Semmens) and was a great bit of business. I sure as hell am not going SR credit for being the ones that signed it off though - with their track record i am more surprised they didn't 🤣.

Brooks was decent enough. Not brilliant by any means though - if we'd signed him in the prem i doubt we'd have signed Fernandes for example - Suspect it would've been a similar sized fee and i know which one i'd rather have).

Ramsdale is a huge upgrade on our other keepers i agree. But there were loan keepers available, we spent £25M on ramsdale when the squad was already very weak, and if we get relegated is he really likely to stay? Starting keeper for Arsenal 2 seasons ago getting loads of plaudits - is he going to drop down to the champ? If he isn't, and given the high chance of us getting relegated when we signed him, surely a loan keeper with an extra £20M spent on CDM or striker was a better use of club funds? Thats my point on it at least. (I like ramsdale, very good shot stopper, but just feel owning him was a luxury we couldn't afford with our cloth this season - if he actually stays i'll take that back, just don't think he will).

Edited 19 hours ago by Saint86