SherborneSaint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 00:22, SaintsFan86 said: Shea Charles has been recalled. Expand I think this is a good decision. With Flynn Downes not available for too much of the time, more options in the middle of the park will be welcomed- it is hardly as if Aribo has been great… SC struggled with some of the thousand RM instructions last year, but does have the physical capabilities that are going to be needed now. I am hopeful the IJ will be given a run as manager, in which case, it is better that he fully understands the capabilities of all of the members of the squad, and is able to integrate them into his team 1
egg Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 07:22, Toussaint said: I don’t see why he’d be restricted to cameos, he’s way better than some of our other midfield options. He’s our player, we are horrendously light in midfield, makes absolute sense to me. Expand Based on what? He was atrocious last season. Take the Liverpool cup game last season as an example.
Convict Colony Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Happy shea is back, a midfielder that probably would be more effective in this system based on the fact he's playing similar with weds and been the best cm in the league according to them. 5
Nolan Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 07:43, egg said: Based on what? He was atrocious last season. Take the Liverpool cup game last season as an example. Expand I remember a quote from Russell Martin at the beginning of his tenure that was something along the lines of "the players we will be moving on aren't bad, some players just don't fit with my style". 1
Toussaint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 07:43, egg said: Based on what? He was atrocious last season. Take the Liverpool cup game last season as an example. Expand He wasn’t atrocious, he started well and went downhill under a loon of a manager, doing really well this year under a good manager. 8
Fabrice29 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Sounds like there could be some details to be revealed over that Shea Charles recall. Possible extension for a fee and 7 days for the recall to kick in both mentioned.
lambtiss Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) On 16/01/2025 at 07:43, egg said: Based on what? He was atrocious last season. Take the Liverpool cup game last season as an example. Expand Untrue exaggeration to say that he was atrocious last season. When he was used in his natural position (DM) he looked very good; in January 2024 Flynn Downes labelled the performances of teammate Shea Charles "a joke" and added: "I wish I was as good as him when I was 20." He was also playing his first season in senior professional football. Admittedly, his performances dropped in the 2nd half of the season and his quality under pressure was exposed but a lot of this was, in my opinion, due to the way RM was asking Southampton to play which didn't suit his style. I am very glad to see him back, I think he will mature into an excellent PL level midfielder and his Championship experience this season will stand him in good stead (if he isn't sold). Edited January 16 by lambtiss 7
Lee On Solent Saint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 07:15, egg said: Poor decision imo. He's better off playing up there than sitting on our bench or getting cameo's here and there. It'd only make sense of big Les was going back, but that'd make no sense. Expand I wouldn't worry too much. We have probably recalled him to sell on.
gecko Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 07:43, egg said: Based on what? He was atrocious last season. Take the Liverpool cup game last season as an example. Expand I'm not his biggest fan, but to single out a game against the best team in the country as his undoing seems a little unfair (yes yes, i'm aware it wasn't their 1st team playing). My recollection is that he was absolute garbage when asked to play in CD early on in the season, but his DM performances, whilst not as good as Downes, were pretty okay. The other factors in play here are probably more of the reason we're calling him back - Downes is a sick-note, Les might be being recalled himself. Add to that SR probably don't want to dump a load of money on a new CDM in a season we are all but relegated, we may as well try blooding Charles in the prem, and in Juric's system. 1
saintant Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 09:21, spyinthesky said: Is Cornet still on the pay roll? Expand Yeah, unless Ivan thinks he can get a tune out of him. 3
Fabrice29 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 09:39, saintant said: Yeah, unless Ivan thinks he can get a tune out of him. Expand He’s on the payroll until the end of the season unless someone else offers to pay him.
Toussaint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 09:21, spyinthesky said: Is Cornet still on the pay roll? Expand Maybe Ivan can get him ft? Reading between the lines in yesterday’s echo interview, I wonder if there is a fitness issue with Archer as well?
egg Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 08:19, Toussaint said: He wasn’t atrocious, he started well and went downhill under a loon of a manager, doing really well this year under a good manager. Expand He's one of those players who appears to have improved in people's minds by being away. He wasn't good last season, and there was almost universal support for him being loaned because he hadn't been good enough. My original point though was that coming back and playing a small role is pointless if he could stay there and play. Our season is over, and it's better for the lad and us next season for him to be playing 90 mins each week for the rest of the season. I'm surprised there's disagreement on that. 2
Stu Man Do Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 10:38, Toussaint said: Maybe Ivan can get him ft? Reading between the lines in yesterday’s echo interview, I wonder if there is a fitness issue with Archer as well? Expand Said similar about KS and how he hadn’t been fit. Think we’ve all thought the same about this squad under RM. On 16/01/2025 at 10:48, egg said: He's one of those players who appears to have improved in people's minds by being away. He wasn't good last season, and there was almost universal support for him being loaned because he hadn't been good enough. My original point though was that coming back and playing a small role is pointless if he could stay there and play. Our season is over, and it's better for the lad and us next season for him to be playing 90 mins each week for the rest of the season. I'm surprised there's disagreement on that. Expand Perhaps we feel we were burned letting Tella stay the whole season when perhaps we should have recalled him in Jan and used him in our last relegation season? 3
Toussaint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 10:48, egg said: He's one of those players who appears to have improved in people's minds by being away. He wasn't good last season, and there was almost universal support for him being loaned because he hadn't been good enough. My original point though was that coming back and playing a small role is pointless if he could stay there and play. Our season is over, and it's better for the lad and us next season for him to be playing 90 mins each week for the rest of the season. I'm surprised there's disagreement on that. Expand Well the last part gives it context and is a valid point, however I doubt Dragan and Ivan have given up on the season yet, so it still makes sense to me.
macca155 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Well I Iiked Shea Charles when he was with Saints. I thought Martin could have managed him much more effectively. I'm pleased to see him back. Saints are woefully weak in midfield and he is needed. However I shall temper my enthusiasm for the moment. I've a horrible feeling this could be a negotiating tactic before his is sold or loaned out. 3
Saint86 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 11:18, macca155 said: Well I Iiked Shea Charles when he was with Saints. I thought Martin could have managed him much more effectively. I'm pleased to see him back. Saints are woefully weak in midfield and he is needed. However I shall temper my enthusiasm for the moment. I've a horrible feeling this could be a negotiating tactic before his is sold or loaned out. Expand Rumours circulating now that we've "recalled him", because Sheffield United want him 😂 1 1
Fabrice29 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) On 16/01/2025 at 12:05, Saint86 said: Rumours circulating now that we've "recalled him", because Sheffield United want him 😂 Expand Would make some sort of sense that it was money motivated because if it was motivated by wanting him in the team then the moment Downes was not fit enough to play would have been the moment to do it. There's also reports he's got to wait 7 days before coming back to us so will be available for Sheffield Wednesday for their next two games, which would suggest they are still being pressed to pay a fee to continue to keep him longer. Edited January 16 by Fabrice29
Baird of the land Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 00:22, SaintsFan86 said: Shea Charles has been recalled. Expand Fab news. Hope he gets a run in the team. Wonder if we plan to let someone else leave. Smallbone maybe.
Matty's Caddy Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 10:53, Stu Man Do said: Said similar about KS and how he hadn’t been fit. Think we’ve all thought the same about this squad under RM. Perhaps we feel we were burned letting Tella stay the whole season when perhaps we should have recalled him in Jan and used him in our last relegation season? Expand We didn’t get burnt, they offered us c. £20M and we bit their hand off. 2
tdmickey3 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:09, Baird of the land said: Fab news. Hope he gets a run in the team. Wonder if we plan to let someone else leave. Smallbone maybe. Expand Hopefully 1
OldNick Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:09, Baird of the land said: Fab news. Hope he gets a run in the team. Wonder if we plan to let someone else leave. Smallbone maybe. Expand Or if Downes injury is longer than we hope or somebody has come in for him. Speculative of course but ....
danjosaint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:09, Baird of the land said: Fab news. Hope he gets a run in the team. Wonder if we plan to let someone else leave. Smallbone maybe. Expand Didn't Sheffield utd enquire about Smallbone 2 seasons back, I'm sure £6m was banded about
West end Saints Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 10:48, egg said: He's one of those players who appears to have improved in people's minds by being away. He wasn't good last season, and there was almost universal support for him being loaned because he hadn't been good enough. My original point though was that coming back and playing a small role is pointless if he could stay there and play. Our season is over, and it's better for the lad and us next season for him to be playing 90 mins each week for the rest of the season. I'm surprised there's disagreement on that. Expand His touch / passing , from memory was decent, but at times struggled with the speed and physicality of the game. He was v young and inexperienced, and regularly played in different positions. I've not seen him this season but he is being raved about - at the highest level that our current CM players have managed to perform. If we had one CM, let alone two CM , how have looked prem level this season then maybe I would agree with you. But, Downes , Aribo, and Ugochuckwu have been generally very poor. It is far from impossible that he would do better than all of them (very low bar) and get loads of game time and help us. It's been one of our two weakest positions this season (along with CF). Improvement / options are needed 2
LuckyNumber7 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 07:15, egg said: Poor decision imo. He's better off playing up there than sitting on our bench or getting cameo's here and there. It'd only make sense of big Les was going back, but that'd make no sense. Expand Agree, his development would have been much better served playing out the season in the Championship, like Tella. He was poor last season, a few decent months at a mid table Championship club doesn't mean he's ready for the PL, plus we are down anyway. Smallbone had similarly decent reviews when on loan at Stoke, and was far better than Charles last season, yet most on here don't want him anywhere near the team. Silly decision for both us and the player. 2
Guest Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) According to Alfie House (The Echo) Will Smallbone is liked by Ivan Juric as an option. It’ll be interesting to see how he gets on over the coming months and if he gets a run in the team at Premier League level. Edited January 16 by FarehamSaintJames
Stu Man Do Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:12, Matty's Caddy said: We didn’t get burnt, they offered us c. £20M and we bit their hand off. Expand Arguably we did. We left an in form player at Burnley who subsequently decided he didn’t fancy coming back to us. If he could have carried that form into our side perhaps we’d have seen a different outcome.
Challenger Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:09, Baird of the land said: Fab news. Hope he gets a run in the team. Wonder if we plan to let someone else leave. Smallbone maybe. Expand You can have skilful players. You can have pacy, athletic players . You can have bang average but grafting, sweat blood,give it all players. Smallbone doesn't really fit into any of these categories. 1
Turkish Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 15:26, Challenger said: You can have skilful players. You can have pacy, athletic players . You can have bang average but grafting, sweat blood,give it all players. Smallbone doesn't really fit into any of these categories. Expand putting players in boxes lol, it's not 1982. Smallbone is obviously no world beater but he's better than a lot of people give him credit for. Fans want to see fast, dynamic, skillful players or try hards, that doesn't mean they're any good. 3
Matty's Caddy Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 15:04, Stu Man Do said: Arguably we did. We left an in form player at Burnley who subsequently decided he didn’t fancy coming back to us. If he could have carried that form into our side perhaps we’d have seen a different outcome. Expand That’s a big IF. We’ve seen how big the gap is this year
egg Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:09, Baird of the land said: Fab news. Hope he gets a run in the team. Wonder if we plan to let someone else leave. Smallbone maybe. Expand Charles played in the championship last season and looked poor so people wanted him to go on loan. He's played half a season in the championship this year and apparently is now a PL player. Smallbone played for Stoke in the championship the year before and looked decent. He also did pretty well last season. Bizarre how half a season in the championship makes someone a PL level midfielder. 6
Midfield_General Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) On 16/01/2025 at 07:15, egg said: Poor decision imo. He's better off playing up there than sitting on our bench or getting cameo's here and there. It'd only make sense of big Les was going back, but that'd make no sense. Expand Probably going to piss the player off as well. Going from flying high, getting bigged up for his performances every week in a promotion-chasing side with a feelgood factor where the fans and media love him, to getting tonked every week in a terrible side where he'll almost certainly start getting flak straightaway if he doesn't immediately look like the new Roy Keane. And/or not playing regularly. It's not going to make any difference to our season, which is over already thanks to the shocking recruitment and that idiot with his vanity project, so it's a poor decision. Can only assume that Juric has said he wants him back, which he is completely within his rights to do, but personally I think we should have left him where he is, let him enjoy a great season and then reassessed in the summer. Edited January 16 by Midfield_General 2
Challenger Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 15:32, Turkish said: putting players in boxes lol, it's not 1982. Smallbone is obviously no world beater but he's better than a lot of people give him credit for. Fans want to see fast, dynamic, skillful players or try hards, that doesn't mean they're any good. Expand You're absolutely correct no guarantees on players these days, very difficult to find a substandard one in that 82 team/squad though.
Football Special Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 12:05, Saint86 said: Rumours circulating now that we've "recalled him", because Sheffield United want him 😂 Expand If they've offered us a higher £££ loan fee than Sheff Wed then makes sense, they can make a counter offer if they want to keep him, Wednesdays chairman supposed to be a nightmare to do business with but does mess Charles development around a bit
Ken Tone Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 16:14, Football Special said: If they've offered us a higher £££ loan fee than Sheff Wed then makes sense, they can make a counter offer if they want to keep him, Wednesdays chairman supposed to be a nightmare to do business with but does mess Charles development around a bit Expand Think the rumour is more that Sheffield united want to buy him, not loan. ..... which would be a major mistake IMO.
Lee On Solent Saint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 15:32, Turkish said: putting players in boxes lol, it's not 1982. Smallbone is obviously no world beater but he's better than a lot of people give him credit for. Fans want to see fast, dynamic, skillful players or try hards, that doesn't mean they're any good. Expand Smallbone is gash for the PL, might be ok again in the Championship for us. Personally, I would move him on if there is interest in him.
Chez Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 16:31, Ken Tone said: Think the rumour is more that Sheffield united want to buy him, not loan. ..... which would be a major mistake IMO. Expand What if the offer was £25m (which, knowing Sheff United, it won't be)?
Chez Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 16:33, Lee On Solent Saint said: Smallbone is gash for the PL, might be ok again in the Championship for us. Personally, I would move him on if there is interest in him. Expand He's played 4 games in the PL this season. Was he poor in all of those, I dont recall?
Convict Colony Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) On 16/01/2025 at 15:49, egg said: Charles played in the championship last season and looked poor so people wanted him to go on loan. He's played half a season in the championship this year and apparently is now a PL player. Smallbone played for Stoke in the championship the year before and looked decent. He also did pretty well last season. Bizarre how half a season in the championship makes someone a PL level midfielder. Expand I think you will find when we were checking out how he did at stoke they were underwhelmed, not nathan jones underwhelmed but he didnt get anywhere near the kudos that Weds fans are giving Charles. I think Smallbones lack of pace and phyiscality doesnt make him suit Juric's style above charles who has been playing in that style under rohl and I would expect him to be above smallbone this or next season assuming we maintain this style. Edited January 16 by Convict Colony
Baird of the land Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 10:48, egg said: He's one of those players who appears to have improved in people's minds by being away. He wasn't good last season, and there was almost universal support for him being loaned because he hadn't been good enough. My original point though was that coming back and playing a small role is pointless if he could stay there and play. Our season is over, and it's better for the lad and us next season for him to be playing 90 mins each week for the rest of the season. I'm surprised there's disagreement on that. Expand As someone who has watched quite a bit of Charles and rate him. I was happy for him to go out on loan and play (as he wasn't a great fit with Martin's approach, was out of favour and his confidence was clearly affected. Situation has changed now though we"ve got a new manager who seems a better fit and loan has revitalised him. On your 2nd point, I think he should have a bigger role. So I think it's much better if he's plays for us in terms of preparation for next season. 3
Convict Colony Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 17:04, Chez said: He's played 4 games in the PL this season. Was he poor in all of those, I dont recall? Expand It wouldnt surprise me for smallbone to arrive where martin lands next. 1
Baird of the land Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 16:33, Lee On Solent Saint said: Smallbone is gash for the PL, might be ok again in the Championship for us. Personally, I would move him on if there is interest in him. Expand Smallbone who has been injured most of the season/ seems less of fit for new manager seems an obvious candidate for a loan move. 1
Ken Tone Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 17:03, Chez said: What if the offer was £25m (which, knowing Sheff United, it won't be)? Expand Well as you say, it won't be! If it was 10mill, I'd say no if he still has a long contract.
Chez Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 17:14, Convict Colony said: It wouldnt surprise me for smallbone to arrive where martin lands next. Expand He is the perfect player for the system adn the system didnt work well without him. His weight of pass is second to none. Not so sure he has much else to his game. He does get up and down the pitch, but its very one paced. His tackling is woeful and there isn't much in the way of long shots, dribbles, tricks...anything other than good weighted passes really. He's kind of `hard to like'. 3
Chez Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 17:35, Ken Tone said: Well as you say, it won't be! If it was 10mill, I'd say no if he still has a long contract. Expand I'd like to see him play for us again before selling him to see if he has improved. Despite the praise coming from Sheffield, I've not been terribly impressed to date, but for all I know he could have truely blossomed.
Lee On Solent Saint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 17:49, Chez said: He is the perfect player for the system adn the system didnt work well without him. His weight of pass is second to none. Not so sure he has much else to his game. He does get up and down the pitch, but its very one paced. His tackling is woeful and there isn't much in the way of long shots, dribbles, tricks...anything other than good weighted passes really. He's kind of `hard to like'. Expand I think with that summary you have just answered your own question about Smallbone being good enough for the PL!
Chez Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 18:35, Lee On Solent Saint said: I think with that summary you have just answered your own question about Smallbone being good enough for the PL! Expand not sure I asked that question. I guess you could argue that being very good at something - passing - is better than being just OK at los of things. I also wondered if my description described someone like Michael Carrick? He must have been a better player to have excelled at United, but I don't recall him being great at a lot things.
Lee On Solent Saint Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 16/01/2025 at 19:52, Chez said: not sure I asked that question. I guess you could argue that being very good at something - passing - is better than being just OK at los of things. I also wondered if my description described someone like Michael Carrick? He must have been a better player to have excelled at United, but I don't recall him being great at a lot things. Expand Just don't think Smallbone has the necessary attriubutes for a PL midfielder in this day and age. Carrick, I think could put a tackle in and seemed to have a decent engine. Smallbone just seems lightweight and games sort of pass him by. Maybe he would be better alongside a Jimmy Case type player.
Convict Colony Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) Wrong thread Edited January 16 by Convict Colony 1
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