Worst ref performances involving Saints

[Pamplemousse]

From memory, we did get a few decisions our way last season. The Armstrong double-touch penalty against Sunderland, and Plymouth had a goal at SMS wrongly ruled out for offside (and then we went up the other end and scored).

[Andy Hill]

Any game involving the illustrious Mike Dean.  How he got to be a Premiership referee beggars belief.  

[EssEffCee]

Not the worst of the worst but Kevin Friend at home to Spurs in 2017 (I think) is up there.

Probably not as remembered as we still won the game.

[saintwbu]

Peter Walton v Leeds

Kevin Friend v Liverpool

Anthony Taylor v Leicester

 

The hall of shame..

[the colonel]

Well at least the refs have apologised to Russell Martin for the fuck up against Leicester, where we should have had a penalty, which might have made the score 3-1 Saints and 2 minutes later they wouldn't have had their penalty.  

So we are all well happy that an apology makes it all ok!! I think not!

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, the colonel said:

Well at least the refs have apologised to Russell Martin for the fuck up against Leicester, where we should have had a penalty, which might have made the score 3-1 Saints and 2 minutes later they wouldn't have had their penalty.  

So we are all well happy that an apology makes it all ok!! I think not!

That only makes it worse ☹️

[warsash saint]

Not quite up to the previous week's standards, but another god damn awful performance by the ref on Saturday.

I was sat in tier 2 of the away section & could clearly see Downes clearly wins the ball - yet the chump in charge who is only a few feet way, gives City the free kick & even books Downes .. laughable

& dont get me started on the Lallana booking.  Ref was obviously so scared the whole game of annoying the City players, bench, owners (or didn't want to risk his bonus!!!)

Edited 28 October, 2024 by warsash saint

[Kenilworthy]

9 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Not quite up to the previous week's standards, but another god damn awful performance by the ref on Saturday.

I was sat in tier 2 of the away section & could clearly see Downes clearly wins the ball - yet the chump in charge who is only a few feet way, gives City the free kick & even books Downes .. laughable

& dont get me started on the Lallana booking.  Ref was obviously so scared the whole game of annoying the City players, bench, owners (or didn't want to risk his bonus!!!)

He also missed Lewis doing Downes on the halfway line. And there was a tussle between Haaland and Bednarek that started with Haaland. But City got the freekick.

[warsash saint]

What makes it worse it that PGMOL obviously saw nothing wrong with Taylor's performance - instead of demoting him to the Championship for weekend, they give him the biggest Premier League game on Sunday 

& there he makes more cocks ups!  Red for VVD, ignores Diaz kicking the ball away, blows up for a nonsense free kick in injury time!

Edited 28 October, 2024 by warsash saint

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, warsash saint said:

What makes it worse it that PGMOL obviously saw nothing wrong with Taylor's performance - instead of demoting him to the Championship for weekend, they give him the biggest Premier League game on Sunday 

& there he makes more cocks ups!  Red for VVD, ignores Diaz kicking the ball away, blows up for a nonsense free kick in injury time!

Was that the one for handball by an Arsenal player? He jumps for the ball and hits it with his arm. 

[warsash saint]

So that's now 4 games on the trot where the refs have been been just plain shit or just completely corrupt!🤬

Starting to question is it all worth it??!!  Spending hundreds each week when it appears the result is already mapped out!

Edited 9 November, 2024 by warsash saint

[John Boy Saint]

Just watched on MOTD - jeez todays ref should be having a sleepless night on that shit show of a performance.

[trousers]

1 minute ago, John Boy Saint said:

Just watched on MOTD - jeez todays ref should be having a sleepless night on that shit show of a performance.

Yep, completely changed the course of the game. As I said on the post-match thread, I actually feel a bit sorry for Russ today as we'd have probably come away with something from the game if the referee and VAR hadn't been so inept. (And, no, I'm not excusing another lacklustre performance. Just stating the obvious)

[Saint Pete]

10 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

Just watched on MOTD - jeez todays ref should be having a sleepless night on that shit show of a performance.

What concerns the most is how on earth can VAR conclude that they should reverse the ref decision and give a foul their way for that? It's either corrupt or completely incompetent. The biggest problem with VAR is they seem determined to find a reason to disallow goals. I wish the refs had the balls to tell them to fuck off when asked to go to the monitor and review!

[sledger]

var is meant to help these clueless refs trouble is its the same clueless refs doing it

[Whitey Grandad]

10 hours ago, sledger said:

var is meant to help these clueless refs trouble is its the same clueless refs doing it

The trouble with VAR referees is that their ego won’t let them take a back seat. They have to get involved.

[East Kent Saint]

I feel yesterday with 3 duff decisions involving actual goals was the worst for a while 

[bugenhagen]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The trouble with VAR referees is that their ego won’t let them take a back seat. They have to get involved.

Yeah, they can’t help themselves. When the ref has to walk off and take another look, VAR is used wrong in my opinion.
It’s like “ooh, we’ve found something here”

If it is a clear mistake, just overturn it. If you’re not sure, let it be. 

[trousers]

Anyone know if PGMOL are obliged to release the audio recording of a VAR decision / non-decision if requested by a given club? Saints should be demanding a copy of the audio and publishing it far and wide. Or do PGMOL have the right to refuse access, assuming they've got something to hide...?

I know they've released audio recordings of some decisions previously, but just wondering if that was upon demand or off their own backs?

You can't imagine the likes of Nan City or Liverpool shrugging shoulders and letting this lie, whereas little ol' meek Southampton FC probably will...

Edited 10 November, 2024 by trousers

[Roo1976]

12 hours ago, sledger said:

var is meant to help these clueless refs trouble is its the same clueless refs doing it

there lies the biggest issue,refs refereeing refs, "weeks in a row we've had some astonishingly bad calls against.I think the build up to their 2nd there were 2 fouls that could have been called,but no VAR intervention.But for our 1st there was, maddening to say the very least. Were certainly being affected by poor officials ,and it has to be said ,by our own manager,who keeps insisting in the inept backwards and sideways passing, and we back ourselves into tighter and tighter positions th        at we inevitably fuck up and shoot ourselves in the foot.  IS HE STILL HERE BTW?...............

[sledger]

2 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

there lies the biggest issue,refs refereeing refs, "weeks in a row we've had some astonishingly bad calls against.I think the build up to their 2nd there were 2 fouls that could have been called,but no VAR intervention.But for our 1st there was, maddening to say the very least. Were certainly being affected by poor officials ,and it has to be said ,by our own manager,who keeps insisting in the inept backwards and sideways passing, and we back ourselves into tighter and tighter positions th        at we inevitably fuck up and shoot ourselves in the foot.  IS HE STILL HERE BTW?...............

ive banged on about refs refereeing refs since var started,personalities come in to it whose experienced and whose inexperienced.

[Wiggles31]

I could VAR multiple games at once after 10 Stella’s and I’d not make a mistake. Idiot proof system ran by clowns. 

[warsash saint]

https://x.com/Josh97LFC/status/1855968991119872392

Jesus wept!!

[Disco Stu]

I could very well believe Jurgon Klopp is arrogant and, all in all, a very unpleasant person so I don't see the problem with that comment. The comment about Liverpool being shit is concerning though as they obviously aren't. It suggests a bias although likely influenced by previous abuse recieved from their staff.

The biggest problem I see is that Coote needs to consider who his true friends are presuming this was never intended to do the rounds on social media. Particularly his 'friend' putting the words "we hate scousers" in his mouth.

[Ted Bates Statue]

I have heard similar being said about us. Utter storm in a teacup.

If anything, shows Liverpool get away with awful behaviour that is left totally unpunished.

[Whitey Grandad]

52 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

I have heard similar being said about us. Utter storm in a teacup.

If anything, shows Liverpool get away with awful behaviour that is left totally unpunished.

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

[John Boy Saint]

Has Webby made his apology phone call to us yet? 
 

That said he must be tearing his hair out this week.

[Daft Kerplunk]

What this shows is that refs have biases and will be affected by media coverage, especially if the Sky-favoured teams. They are only human, but there are mistakes that just don’t make sense, and with VAR too like against Wolves. 

[warsash saint]

Not strictly the ref on the pitch but another corrupt official to add to the over growing collection!!

Glad when we are relegated & VAR can fuck off!!

 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Not strictly the ref on the pitch but another corrupt official to add to the over growing collection!!

Glad when we are relegated & VAR can fuck off!!

 

It would still have been given offside. Which it was.

[bugenhagen]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It would still have been given offside. Which it was.

It still feels worse with VAR, given or not.

Whatever the outcome of that situation, joy or despair - is made worse by the wait...

 

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

It still feels worse with VAR, given or not.

Whatever the outcome of that situation, joy or despair - is made worse by the wait...

 

Yeah. I prefer the old traditional way. Play to the flag and argue about it later.

[Wade Garrett]

How VAR can disallow that goal while last season allowing that offside Man U goal involving Rashford and Fernandes is ridiculous.

It’s almost like there is a desired outcome pre-determined by the officials.

It is scandalous.  We’re getting the same shitty treatment that Wolves got last season and it’s not going to even out.

The game is bent.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

How VAR can disallow that goal while last season allowing that offside Man U goal involving Rashford and Fernandes is ridiculous.

It’s almost like there is a desired outcome pre-determined by the officials.

It is scandalous.  We’re getting the same shitty treatment that Wolves got last season and it’s not going to even out.

The game is bent.

They didn’t disallow the goal. They just didn’t allow it.

You will never get consistency across different games with different interests at stake.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, bugenhagen said:

It still feels worse with VAR, given or not.

Whatever the outcome of that situation, joy or despair - is made worse by the wait...

 

It does when you've waited 5 mins for the decision. Archer onside then they try to find another way to disallow it. Quite how they can say Armstrong was interfering with play when the ball was behind him is ridiculous. Another terrible VAR decision. I think we all agree if Archer is given offside then although we'd have been pissed off because it was very tight you can allow for human error, but to wait 5 mins for them to look at every way they can to disallow it then come up with that is a real sickener.

[OldNick]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It would still have been given offside. Which it was.

Interfering with play I thought

[Sheaf Saint]

Simon Hooper, take a bow.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Simon Hooper, take a bow.

he's always been shite but that was particularly bad last night. Even if he couldn't see it what was the linesman doing? I think he bottled it personally, knew it was a red card but you cant give those against Liverpool, Even my Liverpool supporting bro in law which is as big an irritating armchair sky TV fan as they come said it was a definite red. 

[warsash saint]

I honestly now cannot remember the last ref we have had that has not made at least one shite, corrupt, fuck up decision in one of our games!

'Premier League, Corrupt as fuck!'

 

Edited 29 December, 2024 by warsash saint

[Sheaf Saint]

Did we get an explanation of the decision from the VAR ref for that Palace goal? 

I'm honestly dumbfounded that anyone with even the slightest knowledge of football can watch the replay of that and conclude it wasn't a foul. They didn't even invite the ref to review it on the monitor - just straight up went "nah - nothing wrong with that" despite seeing Rambo fall backwards in a way that is only physically possible if he was pushed. 

You can't even put it down to incompetence. It goes way beyond that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I'm honestly dumbfounded that anyone with even the slightest knowledge of football can watch the replay of that and conclude it wasn't a foul.

Both pundits on MoTD didn’t think it was a foul. 

[Wade Garrett]

Danny Murphy reckons it wasn’t a foul and that Ramsdale should have been stronger.

He would have a different different opinion if Liverpool conceded the goal.

I really dislike Murphy.  

[Harry_SFC]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Danny Murphy reckons it wasn’t a foul and that Ramsdale should have been stronger.

He would have a different different opinion if Liverpool conceded the goal.

I really dislike Murphy.  

My issue isn't necessarily that it was/wasn't a foul. The problem is, that'll happen again next week to someone else and it'll be disallowed. The consistency is at an all time low.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Danny Murphy reckons it wasn’t a foul and that Ramsdale should have been stronger.

Ramsdale should have been stronger, and him and the defenders should have made a big fuss, pushing the bloke etc, before the corner was taken. We’ve seen it 100 times, the ref has a word with the players, the corner swung in and he blows the whistle. We’re naive beyond belief, even letting the bloke do the same thing a few minutes later. 
 

Personally, I’d rather it wasn’t a foul, as keepers are over protected. But there needs to be consistency. That’s given as a foul 9 times out of 10. If they’re going to allow goals like that, that’s fine by me, but we all know the next one will be disallowed. 

Edited 30 December, 2024 by Lord Duckhunter

[Whitey Grandad]

I can see why it wasn’t given as a foul and why VAR didn’t overrule. If the ref had given it as a foul they wouldn’t have overruled that either.

Ramsdale needed protection.

[trousers]

54 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ramsdale should have been stronger, and him and the defenders should have made a big fuss, pushing the bloke etc, before the corner was taken. We’ve seen it 100 times, the ref has a word with the players, the corner swung in and he blows the whistle. We’re naive beyond belief, even letting the bloke do the same thing a few minutes later. 

100%

I've said it before, and (somewhat annoyingly I'd imagine) I'll say it again and again and again.... WE ARE FAR TOO 'NICE' AND HAVE BEEN FOR FAR TOO LONG!!!

I recall most people on here were aghast when Bereton-Diaz over-reacted to the 'heads coming together' incident at Newcastle on the opening day of the season, whereas I heaved a sigh of relief thinking that we'd finally wised-up to the level of shithousery you need to get involved with in order to stand any chance of competing at this level. Every other team has mastered the dark-arts of the game, yet we tip-toe around like classroom swots most of the time or, dare I say it, passive and inoffensive son-in-laws....FFS... call in Vinnie Jones for some pep talks!

Aaaaaaaand.... relax! 

Edited 30 December, 2024 by trousers

[trousers]

Regarding whether or not it was a 'foul' on Ramsdale.... surely the answer is simple, assuming the laws of the game are fit for purpose?

In other words, is it legal for an opponent to push the goalkeeper to put him off making a save? If "yes, it is illegal" then its a foul. If "no, it's not illegal" then it's not a foul.

Why is it any more complicated than that...?

Edited 30 December, 2024 by trousers

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

Regarding whether or not it was a 'foul' on Ramsdale.... surely the answer is simple, assuming the laws of the game are fit for purpose?

In other words, is it legal for an opponent to push the goalkeeper to put him off making a save? If "yes, it is illegal" then its a foul. If "no, it's not illegal" then it's not a foul.

Why is it any more complicated than that...?

But VAR doesn’t work like that. The VAR can think it’s a foul, but not advise a review because it was only a small error. It’s a joke. That’s the issue with VAR in my eyes.
 

Had the Lino thought it a foul, he wouldn’t have had to weigh up whether it crossed some Howard Webb drawn threshold, he’d have flagged and the ref would have given it. Why on earth VAR can’t say, “you might want to look at this again, it maybe a foul” is beyond me. 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

But VAR doesn’t work like that. The VAR can think it’s a foul, but not advise a review because it was only a small error. It’s a joke. That’s the issue with VAR in my eyes.
 

Had the Lino thought it a foul, he wouldn’t have had to weigh up whether it crossed some Howard Webb drawn threshold, he’d have flagged and the ref would have given it. Why on earth VAR can’t say, “you might want to look at this again, it maybe a foul” is beyond me. 

Yeah, agree that's how the (flawed) VAR system operates.... I was more interested in the scenario from an academic point of view, rather than whether the on field decisions were right or wrong.

My question is simple: according to the laws of the game, was Ramsdale fouled? Yes or no? (I am genuinely interested in the laws of the game here, not trying to make a point)

Edited 30 December, 2024 by trousers

[Turkish]

One of these goals was disallowed for impending the goalkeeper the other one was given. If you didn't know better which one would you think was given?

 

Edited 30 December, 2024 by Turkish