Worst ref performances involving Saints

[OldNick]

Roger Milford s others have mentioned. We had such an exciting team of kids Shearer, Wallaces and MLT but he just loved himself and played on until Oldham equalised. We then played them on a plastic pitch and lost. Robbed

[Kenilworthy]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Pahars in 2022? 

2002

[warsash saint]

Just remembered George Courtney sending off Jimmy Case at Old Trafford for a professional foul despite being in his own half !!!

[John Boy Saint]

Andy D’Urso just popped into my head v Blackburn 1st home game of the season before Luggy got binned off - booked a Blackburn player twice without sending him off - never saw a Premier League game again. 

[OttawaSaint]

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Yeah to be fair to Dean, i mean he is a cock, but he had little choice with that. The fact the kid never played for the club again and was sold pretty soon after tells you all you need to know about him ! It wasnt quite in the Oscar Gobern v Bournemouth class mind you ! 

I felt that he could have read the situation better, young lad, first start, nervous, anxious to make a good impression, one of the most famous grounds in the world. 

Ref should have said, "look lad, calm down, I know you're nervous, yellow card, anything else and you're off".

[OttawaSaint]

2 hours ago, franniesTache said:

The two that stand out for me are Kevin Friend who basically cheated in the game against liverpool and (to give him his full name) Roger Fucking Milford.

Also for deciding a game went on wasn't there a ref for a cup game against Reading at a frozen pitch at Elm Park who decided the pitch was safe to play on as long as the players didn't play at 100%, can't remember his name but do remember the shitshow of a game (and the home fans lobbing bits of concrete that had broken off their terrace at us from the other side of the fence)

Was that the Liverpool game where we scored twice and had them disallowed, Liverpool then got away with a red card offense and then scored 2 goals that should both have been ruled out?

Was Friend also the guy that wasn't allowed to ref Everton for years and then did so vs us and gave them the weakest handball decision ever seen to have them win. Not suspicious at all...

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

At least he worked the keeper, more than he did 18 months later at Pride Park…

Andrew Davies, who scored from the disputed free kick, ended up signing for us from Boro (loanee at Derby) the following season. Good player, friend of mine who scouted for Pulis recommended buying him and we were in the crap financially. Tony wasn’t happy as he was pretty much injured all of his time at Stoke!

Edit - the quote about Idiakez should have embedded.

Edited October 21 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

13 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Was that the Liverpool game where we scored twice and had them disallowed, Liverpool then got away with a red card offense and then scored 2 goals that should both have been ruled out?

Was Friend also the guy that wasn't allowed to ref Everton for years and then did so vs us and gave them the weakest handball decision ever seen to have them win. Not suspicious at all...

I think that was spread over two games. One iffy penalty given and we had two very clear shouts, and the Sky pundits agreed. 

[ExtraMan]

Surprised Mike Riley hasn't got a mention yet. I remember in 2009(?) Poortvliet's young Saints taking on ManU at SMS in a cup match. Riley sent off our CF Matt Pattinson when he tried to block Vidic's clearance and Vidic followed through and kicked the underside of his boot. Then Riley gave ManU a penalty for handball when McGoldrick (in a defensive wall) turned bis back and the shot hit him on the top of his shoulder. Such had been Riley's clear bias that I understand the TV commentators said they were surprised that Riley didn't take the penalty himself!

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Pahars in 2022? 

I don’t think so. He was still out injured then. 

[Gloucester Saint]

12 minutes ago, ExtraMan said:

Surprised Mike Riley hasn't got a mention yet. I remember in 2009(?) Poortvliet's young Saints taking on ManU at SMS in a cup match. Riley sent off our CF Matt Pattinson when he tried to block Vidic's clearance and Vidic followed through and kicked the underside of his boot. Then Riley gave ManU a penalty for handball when McGoldrick (in a defensive wall) turned bis back and the shot hit him on the top of his shoulder. Such had been Riley's clear bias that I understand the TV commentators said they were surprised that Riley didn't take the penalty himself!

Had flu, couldn’t use our tickets and had to listen to that game and watch the highlights. Riley IIRC had an astonishing stat at the time for how many penalties he’d given them and quite a few memes of him in a Man U shirt.

[Kenilworthy]

20 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I don’t think so. He was still out injured then. 

He was fit for the City game Southampton v Manchester City, 05 October 2002 - 11v11 match report

[Anthony]

Andre Marriner - League Cup Final 2017

You could just tell that the officials did not want us to win that trophy

[Pamplemousse]

I remember the season we went down, think it was Michael Salisbury on VAR who ruled out a perfectly good goal we scored against Aston Villa, which we went on to lose. Definitely remember feeling cheated out of a win.

Last season the worst ref we had by far was Stuart Atwell. Can't remember which game it was but he was awful all game. Some of the Champ refs I quite like, Sam Barrott and Sam Allison were very good.

Anthony Taylor, just so inconsistent on Saturday, it ruins the game.

[Sunglasses Ron]

24 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Andre Marriner - League Cup Final 2017

You could just tell that the officials did not want us to win that trophy

Still raging about that disallowed goal. 😐

[Gloucester Saint]

43 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

I remember the season we went down, think it was Michael Salisbury on VAR who ruled out a perfectly good goal we scored against Aston Villa, which we went on to lose. Definitely remember feeling cheated out of a win.

Last season the worst ref we had by far was Stuart Atwell. Can't remember which game it was but he was awful all game. Some of the Champ refs I quite like, Sam Barrott and Sam Allison were very good.

Anthony Taylor, just so inconsistent on Saturday, it ruins the game.

Attwell was poor. Barrott and Allison are good, Samuel Barrot is only early 30s, lots of time to improve. Hope PGMOL attitudes don’t ruin him like they did Jarrod Gillett, who was a breath of fresh air when he started. Sam Allison slightly older at 44 but would like to see him get more PL games to shake up the old order a bit. 

[OttawaSaint]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

I remember the season we went down, think it was Michael Salisbury on VAR who ruled out a perfectly good goal we scored against Aston Villa, which we went on to lose. Definitely remember feeling cheated out of a win.

Last season the worst ref we had by far was Stuart Atwell. Can't remember which game it was but he was awful all game. Some of the Champ refs I quite like, Sam Barrott and Sam Allison were very good.

Anthony Taylor, just so inconsistent on Saturday, it ruins the game.

I god, I remember that. I was so incensed I immediately went cross country skiing and did my fastest ever time.

 

Another was vs Wolves. Bertrand hand ball when he put his arms behind him and it deflected and grazed his hand. Penalty, moments later Dendoncker slapped the ball out of the area, nothing.

Then there was the McTomminay volleyball incident...

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Then there was the McTomminay volleyball incident...

His number of touches would be illegal in volleyball.

[Saint Marky]

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

Andre Marriner - League Cup Final 2017

You could just tell that the officials did not want us to win that trophy

Yep, should have overruled that prick of a linesman, which cost Gabbiadini a hat trick and us the game. That arsewipe still runs the line at St Mary’s, can’t believe he never gets any stick. Also Marriner should have sent off Lingard with a second yellow, for the trip on Redmond, maybe he would have if Redmond had gone down?

[SaintsBarry74]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Mike Dean / lee Mason - the 9-0s

9-0s in plural ffs. 🤒You really couldn't make this club up.

OT: Mike Dean hands down.

[Wade Garrett]

8 hours ago, Yorkshire Saint said:

Anyone remember Lester Shapter ?

He hated Liverpool and loved Cloughie 😂😂😂

[inspectorfrost]

9 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

I haven’t a very good memory for most refereeing in games. But one which stands out was Kevin Friend against Liverpool at home 2015. 

Was that the one where in the 1st half alone we had 3 excellent penalty claims all turned down, on top of Mignolet getting away with clearly handling outside the box?

[Badger]

Saturday’s was a pretty low one.

Going back a few years though (1977) Rudi Glockner sticks in my mind. German refereeing v Anderlecht. Sent Jim Steele off I think. 

Certainly got a crowd response going off at the end, a lot more than the panto booing this week.  It’s all a bit tame now on that front. On Saturday the ref made me cast my mind back to Saints v Pompey 1974 when some bloke came in the pitch to have a go at the ref, who also sent Jim Steele off. 

Edited October 21 by Badger

[Kenilworthy]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Saturday’s was a pretty low one.

Going back a few years though (1977) Rudi Glockner sticks in my mind. German refereeing v Anderlecht. Sent Jim Steele off I think. 

Certainly got a crowd response going off at the end, a lot more than the panto booing this week.  It’s all a bit tame now on that front. On Saturday the ref made me cast my mind back to Saints v Pompey 1974 when some bloke came in the pitch to have a go at the ref, also after sending Jim Steele off. 

Glockner was clearly bent. Disallowed a perfectly good goal by Channon in the first leg in Belgium that would have been a vital away goal. In the home leg just would not give us a decision at the Dell. Somehow we overcame that to level the tie at 2-0. Steele was not sent off though. He made the mistake that resulted in Anderlecht's late winner. Glockner had form, he had shown clear bias a year earlier when refereeing Wales v Yugoslavia in the Euros.

[Gloucester Saint]

36 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

Glockner was clearly bent. Disallowed a perfectly good goal by Channon in the first leg in Belgium that would have been a vital away goal. In the home leg just would not give us a decision at the Dell. Somehow we overcame that to level the tie at 2-0. Steele was not sent off though. He made the mistake that resulted in Anderlecht's late winner. Glockner had form, he had shown clear bias a year earlier when refereeing Wales v Yugoslavia in the Euros.

My parents were at the home and away games, mum was in the early stages of carrying me in fact. I remember them saying years later that Van Der Elst’s winner was iffy. Anderlecht had some form for match fixing in that era https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/11/nottingham-forest-anderlecht-match-fixing-scandal-1984

Not suggesting Glockner took a bung but Anderlecht’s President was capable of match fixing. Glockner refereed the 1970 WC Final tangentially. 

My folks stopped in Bruges on the way to Brussels and the locals were begging for Saints to beat Anderlecht. They are hated in Belgium then and now.

Edited October 21 by Gloucester Saint

[Saint86]

10 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Only one 9-0. Pretty sure the one against Leicester was Andre Marriner and he actually got every decision spot on. No complaints at all about the officiating in that game.

Sorry Bad Wolf, but if you care to check you'll see Mike Dean was the video assistant referee for the first 9-0 - He would never miss an opportunity to screw us over.

I'll always remember Matt Cash's hand ball save as well as a Mike dean special.

Edited October 21 by Saint86

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Just remembered George Courtney sending off Jimmy Case at Old Trafford for a professional foul despite being in his own half !!!

I remember that cup game up there late 80s. It was on Bryan Robson, it was a foul no doubt but it was in the centre circle one of the most ridiculous sendings off ever but again it followed a rule change where professional fouls became a thing and it red cards were being dished out all over the place 

another shocker was 1996 fa cup at old Trafford. The DEF were leading 5000 Saints fans went up there on a a Monday night it was the first game the top tier of the new at old Trafford had been opened so it’s was the biggest crowd at old Trafford for many years. As usual we heroically failed played really, really well lost 0-2 but af 0-0 Neil Shipperly had a perfectly good goal disallowed for a push which never was. Still we took over a pub in Salford quays before he game and smashed the red army, men in black and cockney reds to cement our rep as a champions league level firm 👍

[Kingsland Codger]

Pawel Gil - he was the referee for our home game against Inter Milan. True, he was neither anti-Saints nor anti-Inter but Gil’s decisions were so outrageously inconsistent it must have been a nightmare for both teams. Sometimes he awarded a free kick for the slightest of touches and then let a full-bloodied assault go unpunished. A short while later he would do the opposite - no pattern at all to his whistle-blowing.

[Kenilworthy]

9 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

My parents were at the home and away games, mum was in the early stages of carrying me in fact. I remember them saying years later that Van Der Elst’s winner was iffy. Anderlecht had some form for match fixing in that era https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/11/nottingham-forest-anderlecht-match-fixing-scandal-1984

Not suggesting Glockner took a bung but Anderlecht’s President was capable of match fixing. Glockner refereed the 1970 WC Final tangentially. 

My folks stopped in Bruges on the way to Brussels and the locals were begging for Saints to beat Anderlecht. They are hated in Belgium then and now.

The one thing about the Anderlecht game that was not iffy was Van Der Elst's goal. It was a mistake by Steele, although this video is so murky you can hardly make it out. 

 

[Saint_clark]

20 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Peter Walton at home to Leeds in 2010 (didnt realise it was quite that long ago) still ranks as my all time worst ref performance I have ever seen. I have never seen anything more biased, more incompetent, more corrupt, ever !!

Definitely the worst. I remember seeing a Leeds player head it behind for a corner with no Saints players within 5 feet of him and he signalled for a goal kick. 

[John Boy Saint]

16 hours ago, ExtraMan said:

Surprised Mike Riley hasn't got a mention yet. I remember in 2009(?) Poortvliet's young Saints taking on ManU at SMS in a cup match. Riley sent off our CF Matt Pattinson when he tried to block Vidic's clearance and Vidic followed through and kicked the underside of his boot. Then Riley gave ManU a penalty for handball when McGoldrick (in a defensive wall) turned bis back and the shot hit him on the top of his shoulder. Such had been Riley's clear bias that I understand the TV commentators said they were surprised that Riley didn't take the penalty himself!

My first noted experience of watching dodgy Mike “old mother” Riley was at the Dell v Derby, weirdly on a few corners he stood just off the pitch at the goal line, which at the Dell put him pretty close to the crowd - guess that was part of his arrogance.
Second half Benali is brought on - as we know Frannie rarely took prisoners - within minutes wipes one of theirs out: yellow card. Game rolls on. Derby had I think Dean Sturridge playing for them, who was a proper handful, yet again he’s scampering to our box and Frannie carts him up into the air, oh dear Mike Riley wants a word, as he beckons Francis towards him he is walking backwards away from the crime towards the East Stand, stops 15 feet away in front of the Derby fans and presents the Red card sending them wild: Sturrdge was still in bits on the pitch 30 yards away!! 
He certainly didn’t take up his weird position on corners in front of the Milton after that. 
 

When he took up the position of head of the PGMOL, you thought that says it all. 

[LiberalCommunist]

This thread has brought old traumas to the surface. 

[Bad Wolf]

10 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Sorry Bad Wolf, but if you care to check you'll see Mike Dean was the video assistant referee for the first 9-0 - He would never miss an opportunity to screw us over.

I'll always remember Matt Cash's hand ball save as well as a Mike dean special.

Yes, I remember that one. Didn't know Dean was on VAR though - I don't remember that first 9-0 being anything awful in the refereeing department. Bertrand had to go and if I remember rightly, they could have actually had a penalty just after half time.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Yes, I remember that one. Didn't know Dean was on VAR though - I don't remember that first 9-0 being anything awful in the refereeing department. Bertrand had to go and if I remember rightly, they could have actually had a penalty just after half time.

Dean saw a foul by Bertrand that nobody in the stadium saw. Not the players, not the referee, not the fans. Bertrand went in with his leg straight but didn’t have the momentum or force to be a danger. This is a problem with VAR. someone watching on the TV can’t judge speed or intensity.

Bin it.

[John Boy Saint]

I’m amazed Mark Clattenburg hasn’t been mentioned - he had the persona of an arrogant whatsit most of the time. 
One thing that sticks that he did against us versus Liverpool at SMS feeding the big club bias. One of ours upended one of theirs just outside their box, Clattenburg went for the whistle, then stopped and played the advantage, Liverpool were off down the pitch like Hares, ball into Mané and he misses,  poking it out play, our goal kick. Whistle goes and Clattenburg is pulling the game back to where the offence took place and advantage signalled “to give them another go”! 
Those paying attention in the crowd weren’t happy. 

[Kenilworthy]

One of Mr Dean's lesser known transgressions. In the away match at Watford in 2018/19 - the Shane Long goal game. At 1-0 Long was brought down in the penalty area - no pen. After the late equaliser and in time added on, Redmond was set to burst through on the wing and was pulled down by a defender. Dean had the whistle to his lips ready to blow for the foul. Then he realised it would be a second yellow and red card for Watford. So he then just waved play on.

[Kenilworthy]

So far we haven't mentioned David Elleray, Harrow housemaster and self-styled "best referee in England". My heart sank whenever I saw he was in charge. A classic display was home against Arsenal in August 97. Bergkamp elbowed David Hughes so hard he was lifted off his feet. Mr Elleray saw nothing. Bergkamp stayed on to score two goals.

[SotonianWill]

16 hours ago, inspectorfrost said:

Was that the one where in the 1st half alone we had 3 excellent penalty claims all turned down, on top of Mignolet getting away with clearly handling outside the box?

Yes - Filip Djuricic. 2-0 loss with a Coutinho long shot a couple of weeks after Shelvey had done the same for Swansea at St Mary’s. 

[Bad Wolf]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Dean saw a foul by Bertrand that nobody in the stadium saw. Not the players, not the referee, not the fans. Bertrand went in with his leg straight but didn’t have the momentum or force to be a danger. This is a problem with VAR. someone watching on the TV can’t judge speed or intensity.

Bin it.

Maybe so but what you've essentially described is VAR doing it's job right. It was a foul and a blatant red card. I've not seen a single person dispute that.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Maybe so but what you've essentially described is VAR doing it's job right. It was a foul and a blatant red card. I've not seen a single person dispute that.

It wasn’t a foul. So it wasn’t a red card.

As I said, nobody on the pitch even blinked an eyelid at it.

[Bad Wolf]

18 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It wasn’t a foul. So it wasn’t a red card.

As I said, nobody on the pitch even blinked an eyelid at it.

 

You're trolling right? 0:30...You're going to sit there and say that's not a foul?? 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Maybe so but what you've essentially described is VAR doing it's job right. It was a foul and a blatant red card. I've not seen a single person dispute that.

That's the thing. Many of these previous nightmares were pre-VAR. If anything, it was VAR that was against us on Saturday. They didn't pick up on TP's pull back (admittedly Taylor saw it too) but Taylor initially gave the goal and they were all too quick to get him to check the monitor.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

 

You're trolling right? 0:30...You're going to sit there and say that's not a foul?? 

It wants me to sign in.

No, I’m not trolling. Bertrand doesn’t have enough momentum to reach the player and stopped just before reaching him. This is a prime example of what you see on TV not representing what happens on the pitch. Neither the referee nor the Leicester players complained.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

That's the thing. Many of these previous nightmares were pre-VAR. If anything, it was VAR that was against us on Saturday. They didn't pick up on TP's pull back (admittedly Taylor saw it too) but Taylor initially gave the goal and they were all too quick to get him to check the monitor.

This is one of the big problems with VAR. Presumably it couldn’t or didn’t intervene because Taylor had a clear view of the Onuachu incident yet did stick its nose in because the pull on Vardy was not visible to Taylor. If Taylor had been consistent he would have considered the minor tug on Vardy to be no more consequential than the one on Onuachu.

[Kenilworthy]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

 

You're trolling right? 0:30...You're going to sit there and say that's not a foul?? 

What I have an issue with is that time and again there are similar challenges on our players that sometimes don't even result in yellow cards. If we accept that this is a red card then it just has to be a red card every time a player does the same thing

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

57 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

This is one of the big problems with VAR. Presumably it couldn’t or didn’t intervene because Taylor had a clear view of the Onuachu incident yet did stick its nose in because the pull on Vardy was not visible to Taylor. If Taylor had been consistent he would have considered the minor tug on Vardy to be no more consequential than the one on Onuachu.

I always thought VAR can get involved if there was a 'clear and obvious error'. Using that reasoning, VAR saw Taylor didn't intervene on TP's tug so should have been equally lenient on Fraser's tug. I sometimes think our problem is our guys don't throw themselves to the floor or surround the ref enough.

[Roo1976]

On 21/10/2024 at 12:48, Gloucester Saint said:

Probably easier to recall the decent refs. Paul Durkin with a Dorset combination of Wendy Toms on the line was always solid and fair, widely considered the best official of his era. That mantle went to Howard Webb, only the one Saints blemish for him and Neil Warnock said they didn’t get him at Sheff Utd and it frustrated him as he rated him as the best of the best. Eddie Walthamstow let the game flow, you got a good game with him but would penalise anything cynical, as it should be. Michael Oliver looks good at times but difficult when there’s so much crap at PGMOL and Stockley Park around you. Has time on his side to be a class act.

John Brooks has a mixed record but no complaints from anyone about his performance at Wembley. When a lot of the officials are on it, they can perform a very demanding job well, but there’s a few in this list who were/are terrible everywhere they go/went. Mistakes will always happen but there technology is now there to catch the obvious, if used judiciously. And there’s the rub!

Agree with Micheal Oliver, allowed the game to develop, and a quite little word every now and then,but not now sadly.Too much bitty and petulant fouls being booked because maybe they are under too much scrutiny to use common sense. Taylor i recall has had his wings clipped already for over zealous refereeing once this season,so the same should be taken into account for his latest debacle.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.facebook.com/SkySports/videos/kevin-friend-discusses-how-referees-will-approach-handball-offences-in-the-upcom/1315922576033744/&ved=2ahUKEwiu077V0KKJAxXnTUEAHTttD54Q78AJegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw2jvk_4PRILyFnLcb-AgRep. Still dont see enough teams being penalized for holding, unless your one is against us.

[Gloucester Saint]

Just to prove it isn’t us, Luton corner, Carlton Morris prods in. I thought it was odd that the lion flagged, see the replay, Morris is a whole yard onside. 

[Lighthouse]

On 22/10/2024 at 19:23, Kenilworthy said:

What I have an issue with is that time and again there are similar challenges on our players that sometimes don't even result in yellow cards. If we accept that this is a red card then it just has to be a red card every time a player does the same thing

No system is flawlessly fair and equal but you get a red card for a challenge like that nineteen times out of twenty, with VAR.

[Whitey Grandad]

41 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Just to prove it isn’t us, Luton corner, Carlton Morris prods in. I thought it was odd that the lion flagged, see the replay, Morris is a whole yard onside. 

The number 18 in the centre of goal was offside and interfering.