Saints 2-3 Leicester - Match Thread

[die Mannyschaft]

I don't understand why the subs were made when cruising 2 up. If the players taken off had to due to fitness then that's a worry that starting 11 can't last past 70 mins or so. The subs left Saints second bedt and struggling.  If you cant win the six pointers your not likely to win any games from teams above 15th.

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I don't understand why the subs were made when cruising 2 up. If the players taken off had to due to fitness then that's a worry that starting 11 can't last past 70 mins or so. The subs left Saints second bedt and struggling.  If you cant win the six pointers your not likely to win any games from teams above 15th.

We made one sub when 2-0 up. Fraser replaced Suga, who had been booked. Then we made two more after the tide had turned against us, then two more after the red/equaliser.

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We made one sub when 2-0 up. Fraser replaced Suga, who had been booked. Then we made two more after the tide had turned against us, then two more after the red/equaliser.

But we moved two players as well for one sub  - Manning who hasn’t been trusted as left back but was ok at left mid at Arsenal and today . It should have been just straight swap Charlie Taylor

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We made one sub when 2-0 up. Fraser replaced Suga, who had been booked. Then we made two more after the tide had turned against us, then two more after the red/equaliser.

Do you not think the tide turning was a direct result of taking Fernades off and bringing on Smallbone?

[the colonel]

Sorry if discussed previously: But what was that that flashed up on the big screens about the penalty?

[Midfield_General]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Do you not think the tide turning was a direct result of taking Fernades off and bringing on Smallbone?

Fernandes was on a yellow so I understand taking him off. Should have been Lallana who came on though. 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

Fernandes was on a yellow so I understand taking him off. Should have been Lallana who came on though. 

He'd have been a passenger and Russ would have been slaughtered for it.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

Fernandes was on a yellow so I understand taking him off. Should have been Lallana who came on though. 

I don't. He managed best part of 60 minutes without committing another foul. Showed a lot of maturity. 

[Green]

Cooper didn’t manage to exploit our weaknesses quite as ruthlessly as Maresca did in both games last season but he obviously noted that we don’t bother to defend the edge of our box from corners in the 97th minute. 
 

I like Martin and think he deserves credit for what he has achieved but unfortunately I think that this should be the end of the road for him. 
 

We’ve wasted what should be, on paper at least, the two easiest games of the season at home to newly promoted clubs and I just can’t see us improving under Martin, so sadly I think it’s time for him to go and hope that we can appoint someone better at this level. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

It was the most biased refereeing performance I have ever seen certainly, can only assume Leicester had taken his family hostage until the end of the match. 

What the fuck was he doing here? 

It’s a shocker, still doesn't excuse Martin being Wessex League tactically, but PGMOL are very dubious.

Wolves and Forest suffered from some very suspect officiating last season. What should have happened is the police and Premier League looking into the financial affairs of all officials concerned and Stockley Park employees to ensure there wasn’t a corruption issue. Italy and Belgium had historic issues with it, we aren’t immune.

Instead, Forest get hit with a record £750k fine for speaking out and the dirt is brushed under the carpet again.

With the amount of money swilling around and portals to gamble on nowadays, it would only hypothetically take a handful of addicted people to cross the line.

On the other hand, the Euros did show our officials to be Europe’s worst so it’s just as likely a competency issue. Every game there was a fucking problem they were involved on pitch or VAR. Other countries can use VAR, ours can’t. Look at last season’s debacle at Bournemouth. What was it, 7 or 8 minute delay for a 45 second decision?

[saintant]

31 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

He'd have been a passenger and Russ would have been slaughtered for it.

Yeah cos he hasn't looked our best player every time he's set foot on the pitch has he.

[BallBoy]

Probably been said before but the 3rd goal was exactly the same mistake as against Ipswich. Player on the edge of the box gets a free hit. Why are our players so stupid?

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, Football Special said:

It was the most biased refereeing performance I have ever seen certainly, can only assume Leicester had taken his family hostage until the end of the match. 

What the fuck was he doing here? 

So according to MOTD Taylor said he saw it and chose not to give it because the shirt pull 'didn't have consequence'.

He literally pulled him back for about five seconds, in the penalty area, as he tried to attack a cross that was heading straight for him.

Corrupt. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

So according to MOTD Taylor said he saw it and chose not to give it because the shirt pull 'didn't have consequence'.

He literally pulled him back for about five seconds, in the penalty area, as he tried to attack a cross that was heading straight for him.

Corrupt. 

But fouls for shirt pulls are given on every other area of the pitch. Wasn't Dibling booked today for tugging back one of their's?

[Saint Pete]

5 hours ago, Dellyears said:

With all those subs coming onand just messing  us up, why was lallana still on the bench, the one player who could calm it all down. Think RM is probably in awe of him, he knows more about the game than the guy trying to manage. Why prefer Smallbone and Fraser to him/

Yes, have to say I was pretty shocked when Smallbone came on when we could have had Lallana on instead, who is on a different level of quality, about time Russell faced up to that. The Fraser one was different, in hindsight it definitely should have been Taylor who came on at that point, who would have had at least half a chance of coping with Fatawu better.

[Eric The Red]

21 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

So according to MOTD Taylor said he saw it and chose not to give it because the shirt pull 'didn't have consequence'.

He literally pulled him back for about five seconds, in the penalty area, as he tried to attack a cross that was heading straight for him.

Corrupt. 

Exactly, The MoTD analysis shows we were basically robbed by a totally inept (at least) referee and VAR

[Jonnyboy]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

We made one sub when 2-0 up. Fraser replaced Suga, who had been booked. Then we made two more after the tide had turned against us, then two more after the red/equaliser.

And Fraser had a shocker.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

He'd have been a passenger and Russ would have been slaughtered for it.

I can’t make up my mind if you’re just a wind up merchant or if you are totally blind to what’s happened so far this season. Have you actually watched Lallana’s contributions ffs? More so have you failed to notice his constant prompting, pointing and basically coaching while on the pitch?

To not bring him on today at the very moment the nerves were showing was absolutely bloody unbelievable. 

[Dellyears]

7 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

And Fraser had a shocker.

He was only on 11 minutes...responsible for two goals and then left us with ten men, oh dear.

[warsash saint]

Not been that angry at a ref since Gerald Ashby away at Norwich in the 90's!!

[warsash saint]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The ref was shite, but he wasn't on the fix. Just incompetent. 

Bollocks!!  if your incompetent you get ALL the decisions wrong - this was one of the of most corrupt displays i have witnessed in my 45 years of watching Saints!!

[SW11_Saint]

Just before the move that led to the corner (that provided their winner) their keeper had to come out of his area a good 10 yards to get a hopeful ball we’d punted up. Instead of showing urgency and putting him under pressure, Sulemana just stops and gently jogged back toward the centre circle. Goalie has time to compose himself and lump it back towards our area… and start the move that led to the corner. You know the rest… 🤬

[Baz Fl]

So sick of bloody Leicester, they absolutely bully us every game 🤬🤬🤬

[Kermitzasaint]

7 hours ago, Mr X said:

Does he though? can we turn on someone for not being good enough at this level when we all knew he wouldn't be good enough at this level? It's SR and the board that our anger should be directed at surely? 

Russell has consistently stated that he values statistics over results. This is on him. He does not care about the team surviving, only seeking to validate his own obsession. So he deserves the supporters vitriol

[CSA96]

1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

I can’t make up my mind if you’re just a wind up merchant or if you are totally blind to what’s happened so far this season. Have you actually watched Lallana’s contributions ffs? More so have you failed to notice his constant prompting, pointing and basically coaching while on the pitch?

To not bring him on today at the very moment the nerves were showing was absolutely bloody unbelievable. 

Maybe over simplistic and an easy projection to make, but I’m pretty confident that there aren’t two players sat unmarked on the edge of the D if Lallana is on the pitch for the corner at the death.

[HKsaint]

Said already, let us score a goal in the first half and then they will score goals for fun in the second half 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Corrupt baldy bastard. At least try and not make it obvious you’re cheating. Slap head prick 

[Shufty Zubrik]

11 hours ago, Football Special said:

It was the most biased refereeing performance I have ever seen certainly, can only assume Leicester had taken his family hostage until the end of the match. 

What the fuck was he doing here? 

Well Anthony Taylor, I think an explanation is required why this penalty wasn't given.
We'll make it easy with multiple choice.
1. I didn't see it. (not really likely as it could not be more obvious)
2. I am incompetent. (he has previous)
3. I am a venal little shit who is corrupt (but adored by H. Webb).

2nd worst referee performance I have seen in 60 years of watching Saints. Only John Gow in the late 60's and early 70's was worse and that is a very low bar. Anthony Taylor goes down in infamy along with John Gow.

[aintforever]

11 hours ago, Football Special said:

It was the most biased refereeing performance I have ever seen certainly, can only assume Leicester had taken his family hostage until the end of the match. 

What the fuck was he doing here? 

It’s hard to put that down as incompetence. He can clearly see it, he knows the rules, it’s just plain cheating.

He was making weird decisions all game, it must be easy money for these refs down the bookies.

[Dangerspoon]

Controversial comment I know, but I actually thought the ref was alright. Sit in Kingsland centre and our bookings all seemed fair to me, and Taylor tried to let the game flow. I agree the onachou shirt pull was a poor decision (although, there is an argument that onachou should have gone down), but he did let Fraser’s tug back go. VAR had to intervene on latter, and should have the former.

We were beaten by Fatsou (or whoever their right winger was), Saga’s injury and RM. Assuming Saga would have stayed on then KWP would have been ok on Fatsou and wee man would have stayed on the bench. If RM brought Saga off as he was on a yellow then he’s an idiot.

RM moaning that we didn’t pick up the edge of the area is on HIM. Clearly didn’t explain it well enough to the player and didn’t emphasise it enough to Downes (captain) to remind the player.

Edited October 20 by Dangerspoon

[Thripp87]

Well, let’s start with the positives. Met Le God outside before kick off, a nice reminder of when football was worth getting worked up by, secondly a good introduction for my 6 year old son to what it’s like to support Saints.

Onto the negatives. That substitution to bring on Fraser instead of Taylor is on a par with some of the worst tactical decisions I have seen. Martin clearly has no plan on how to turn this around and you can see that with the random decisions he is making. Onachu suddenly brought in (actually one I agree with) and then Sulemana straight in ahead of Adam Armstrong (ridiculous). He’s not basing these decisions on anything other than desperation. At the same time, the one he does need to bring back in ABK is at home doing nothing. 
Let’s be realistic, the only thing we have to play for now is to beat Derby’s points total, that would be more embarrassing than the 9-0s. In my view now it is utterly pointless going for Potter and Moyes, neither would touch us so  I would just give it to Lallana now until the end of the season.

We are so poor and inept we have literally soiled our underpants to Abdul Fatawa. He could walk past me in Tesco and I wouldn’t know who he is. 
 

Edited October 20 by Thripp87

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

There was a lot of dubious stuff going on yesterday with that ref, from his eagerness to get his book out early against us to little tug backs he pulled us up on but let it go the other way. And then that blatant pen on Onuacho.

And I'm a bit mystified why MOTD showed the added time as 8 minutes, I could have sworn it was put up as 7 in the stadium. Everyone around us were moaning as that corner was awarded at nearly 8 minutes, did Lineker get MOTD to up it to avoid any more finger pointing?

When they were putting up that 'Top Boy' flag near us it felt it may be our day, that went well.

[Cabrone]

Yes we were denied a penalty but I always felt that had  converted it Leicester would have just scored another.

Another game where we concede far too easily because of a manager whose 'philosophy' is fundamentally at odds with survival.

On paper Ramsdale, KWP, Bednarek, THB and Taylor should be competitive if coached correctly so why aren't they? It's even more baffling considering the manager was himself a centre half.

December looks quite punishing so either we get moving before the end of November or I think that will be that for this season.

[Harry_SFC]

23 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

There was a lot of dubious stuff going on yesterday with that ref, from his eagerness to get his book out early against us to little tug backs he pulled us up on but let it go the other way. And then that blatant pen on Onuacho.

And I'm a bit mystified why MOTD showed the added time as 8 minutes, I could have sworn it was put up as 7 in the stadium. Everyone around us were moaning as that corner was awarded at nearly 8 minutes, did Lineker get MOTD to up it to avoid any more finger pointing?

When they were putting up that 'Top Boy' flag near us it felt it may be our day, that went well.

It was 7 minutes. Pretty sure the corner was given at 97.10. Don't forget it's a minimum of 7 minutes. As soon as that corner is defended the whistle blows. 

Edited October 20 by Harry_SFC

[stknowle]

We need to take this to appeal. Not only were we fucked by corrupt officials I’ve just watched MOTD and they’ve revealed Leicester had a fucking ringer in charge for the day. Namely, Brighton manager Fabian Hurzeler.

[Saint Pete]

10 hours ago, BallBoy said:

Probably been said before but the 3rd goal was exactly the same mistake as against Ipswich. Player on the edge of the box gets a free hit. Why are our players so stupid?

The defending (or lack of) on that corner was unforgivable at any level. Yes, we were down to 10 men, but there were actually 3 Leicester players on edge of the box completely unattended, allowing them to play an easy pass along the ground from the corner and get a free shot in. Ramsdale should do a lot better with the shot as well.

Defending from set pieces generally is still something we don't seem to be addressing and there were several throughout the match where players weren't being picked up. So no surprise when we were eventually punished.

Until we get these sort of basics right, we'll have no chance in the premier league.

[HarvSFC]

12 minutes ago, stknowle said:

We need to take this to appeal. Not only were we fucked by corrupt officials I’ve just watched MOTD and they’ve revealed Leicester had a fucking ringer in charge for the day. Namely, Brighton manager Fabian Hurzeler.

Steve Cooper isn't allowed to be shown on TV pre-watershed.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Thripp87 said:

Well, let’s start with the positives. Met Le God outside before kick off

One of my favourite forum members. Would like to meet MLG myself one of these days too. 

[Chewy]

56 minutes ago, Dangerspoon said:

Controversial comment I know, but I actually thought the ref was alright. Sit in Kingsland centre and our bookings all seemed fair to me, and Taylor tried to let the game flow. I agree the onachou shirt pull was a poor decision (although, there is an argument that onachou should have gone down), but he did let Fraser’s tug back go. VAR had to intervene on latter, and should have the former.

We were beaten by Fatsou (or whoever their right winger was), Saga’s injury and RM. Assuming Saga would have stayed on then KWP would have been ok on Fatsou and wee man would have stayed on the bench. If RM brought Saga off as he was on a yellow then he’s an idiot.

RM moaning that we didn’t pick up the edge of the area is on HIM. Clearly didn’t explain it well enough to the player and didn’t emphasise it enough to Downes (captain) to remind the player.

I don’t totally disagree - I do think every booking was technically correct, but he was too quick to hurry Suga on with the throw (once hurried, Suga then took too long). And two of the cautions were petulant fouls but resulted from Taylor not awarding free kicks we should have got (Tyler and Fernandes).

He missed a blatant penalty, and you could argue he was letting the game flow, but Fernandes was being niggled all game. Plus it’s a consistency issue - the ref v Ipswich blew every time someone was breathed on.

The standard of officiating is poor but VAR really doesn’t help. How we didn’t get a penalty from either the ref or VAR is frankly staggering.

Having said all that, it doesn’t excuse the total incompetence of our in game management. The issue was not who was brought off - Suga was booked and been down twice, clearly struggling; Fernandes booked and tiring; ditto Dibling. But the players on in all 3 cases were wrong (I think Paul for Fraser was correct). Fraser sub (should have been Taylor), the Smallbone sub (Lallana), Dibling (ArmA, or if Sulemana stick him up next to Paul and go long). 
Every person in the stadium except RM and his sycophantic coaches could see it. Fatuwu was having a major impact and we weakened ourselves defensively in that very part of the pitch. We deserved to lose for that lunacy alone, whatever Taylor did.

Final aside - watch the last goal back and follow Kamaldeen and tell me if you want that attitude on the pitch, certainly in a relegation fight and quite frankly at any stage. Last kick corner and that’s his urgency? I don’t care how fed up with RM he is, or that he’s a striker not a defender. F*** off.

[S-Clarke]

The simple fact upon all of this, no matter what is debated and how often - Russell Martin is incapable of tactically setting up a team to defend. Full stop. This was the same at MK Dons, Swansea and ourselves last season. Too narrow minded on possession football and what to do when on the ball, our off the ball work is as bad as anyone out of the 92. That's all on Martin and his coaches. 60 goals against at MK Dons, 60 at Swansea, 60 odd last season, 2000 this year?

I think we all appreciate that this season is done, dusted and wrapped up. It's going to be a particularly galling experience for us all. The main worry I have around seasons like this is how the players and fans respond to it. This sort of seasons quite often have an enormous hangover the following season as losing just becomes ingrained, that's my main worry at the moment. I don't think we've ever been this bad, certainly comparisons with that Derby team, so it's a new experience for most of us.

Onto the game we do have some bright spots in the side. I like Fernandes, always have done, Dibling is nice and direct, Suguwara hasn't put a foot wrong. It's hard to really pin these results on individuals per say, it's a team throw away most weeks. In the first half we were quite sensible with our use of the ball, but as soon as we started fart arsing around with it between the CB's (who were too close to each other) it all went to shit, Leicester got a sniff and that was that.

I sense a lot of panic in the side from guys like Downes, THB, key for us last year but they are all over the show this.

So, here we are - 1 point, 8 games. That 1 point game against Ipswich, and almost a second against Leicester - two of our 'rivals'. The rest of the games we've been involved in have been absolute food and drink for the oppo, not competitive in any of the others. Bodes well for the forthcoming weeks. As fun as that day in May was, I don't think we were ever in a place to get promoted.

Batten down the hatches for a pretty chastising winter.

 

Edited October 20 by S-Clarke

[Whitey Grandad]

46 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

It was 7 minutes. Pretty sure the corner was given at 97.10. Don't forget it's a minimum of 7 minutes. As soon as that corner is defended the whistle blows. 

Yep. I remember the corner being given at 97:03 and in that situation as soon as any defender gets something on the ball the final whistle blows.

So why leave three Leicester players unmarked on the edge of our box?

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Yep. I remember the corner being given at 97:03 and in that situation as soon as any defender gets something on the ball the final whistle blows.

So why leave three Leicester players unmarked on the edge of our box?

Because Russell Martin cannot coach or focus on defending, simple as that really. Our off the ball work is second, which is the opposite way around than it should be.

[um pahars]

10 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

So according to MOTD Taylor said he saw it and chose not to give it because the shirt pull 'didn't have consequence'.

He literally pulled him back for about five seconds, in the penalty area, as he tried to attack a cross that was heading straight for him.

Corrupt. 

I was directly in line with that shirt pull and it was blatant. How you can excuse it (or miss it) beggars belief!

Throw in RM decision making and we stood no chance.

At half time we all said, next goal wins the game!!

[stknowle]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The simple fact upon all of this, no matter what is debated and how often - Russell Martin is incapable of tactically setting up a team to defend. Full stop. This was the same at MK Dons, Swansea and ourselves last season. Too narrow minded on possession football and what to do when on the ball, our off the ball work is as bad as anyone out of the 92. That's all on Martin and his coaches. 60 goals against at MK Dons, 60 at Swansea, 60 odd last season, 2000 this year?

I think we all appreciate that this season is done, dusted and wrapped up. It's going to be a particularly galling experience for us all. The main worry I have around seasons like this is how the players and fans respond to it. This sort of seasons quite often have an enormous hangover the following season as losing just becomes ingrained, that's my main worry at the moment. I don't think we've ever been this bad, certainly comparisons with that Derby team, so it's a new experience for most of us.

Onto the game we do have some bright spots in the side. I like Fernandes, always have done, Dibling is nice and direct, Suguwara hasn't put a foot wrong. It's hard to really pin these results on individuals per say, it's a team throw away most weeks. In the first half we were quite sensible with our use of the ball, but as soon as we started fart arsing around with it between the CB's (who were too close to each other) it all went to shit, Leicester got a sniff and that was that.

I sense a lot of panic in the side from guys like Downes, THB, key for us last year but they are all over the show this.

So, here we are - 1 point, 8 games. That 1 point game against Ipswich, and almost a second against Leicester - two of our 'rivals'. The rest of the games we've been involved in have been absolute food and drink for the oppo, not competitive in any of the others. Bodes well for the forthcoming weeks.

Batten down the hatches for a pretty chastising winter.

My main worry is that Derby record and the laughing stock it makes us if we beat it. If we stick with him we’ll beat it. If we don’t we might not. It’s that simple.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Dangerspoon said:

Controversial comment I know, but I actually thought the ref was alright. Sit in Kingsland centre and our bookings all seemed fair to me, and Taylor tried to let the game flow. I agree the onachou shirt pull was a poor decision (although, there is an argument that onachou should have gone down), but he did let Fraser’s tug back go. VAR had to intervene on latter, and should have the former.

We were beaten by Fatsou (or whoever their right winger was), Saga’s injury and RM. Assuming Saga would have stayed on then KWP would have been ok on Fatsou and wee man would have stayed on the bench. If RM brought Saga off as he was on a yellow then he’s an idiot.

RM moaning that we didn’t pick up the edge of the area is on HIM. Clearly didn’t explain it well enough to the player and didn’t emphasise it enough to Downes (captain) to remind the player.

The problem was VAR. Didn’t intervene for the Onuachu incident, presumably because Taylor had a clear view of it, yet stuck its oar in for the Vardy one.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, stknowle said:

My main worry is that Derby record and the laughing stock it makes us if we beat it. If we stick with him we’ll beat it. If we don’t we might not. It’s that simple.

I know what you mean, but that's a pretty depressing target to even aim for or use as a reason for getting a new manager.

For what it's worth I think it's time as Martin has clearly lost his way here, even the backend of last season included in that. Who fancies this job is the question though. Forget the likes of Potter/Moyes etc, we'll be looking at lower profile.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I’ve generally been over a poor Saints result within maybe a quarter of an hour over the last few years. It doesn’t bother me like when I was a teenager and it would ruin my whole week.
(You get older and realise there’s more to life than football and it isn’t the be all and end all).

But bloody hell I was in a foul mood last night and I’ve woken up this morning still absolutely incensed by those goals conceded and those subs made.

Im absolutely stewing this morning. 

[LGTL]

That Derby record is absolutely at threat. I genuinely believe we won’t win a game all season if we keep this total prick in charge. 

[stknowle]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I know what you mean, but that's a pretty depressing target to even aim for or use as a reason for getting a new manager.

For what it's worth I think it's time as Martin has clearly lost his way here, even the backend of last season included in that. Who fancies this job is the question though. Forget the likes of Potter/Moyes etc, we'll be looking at lower profile.

Oh I couldn’t agree more that it’s depressing! TBH it’s an outside shot but we aren’t adrift (yet) and there is a some quality (Fernandes and Dibling I think could really turn into a handful to play against) for a good manager to work with and give us some kind of fighting chance of staying up. Highly unlikely but not totally impossible.  With RM we’re going down and doing it in spectacular fashion.

[stknowle]

12 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I’ve generally been over a poor Saints result within maybe a quarter of an hour over the last few years. It doesn’t bother me like when I was a teenager and it would ruin my whole week.
(You get older and realise there’s more to life than football and it isn’t the be all and end all).

But bloody hell I was in a foul mood last night and I’ve woken up this morning still absolutely incensed by those goals conceded and those subs made.

Im absolutely stewing this morning. 

Ditto. And the last time I felt like this was when we got battered by Leicester last season.