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Arsenal 3-1 Saints - Match Thread


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Shock goal was a nice feeling.. but didn’t last very long. Archer off the mark is a positive. Other than that, same old shit.

Getting very boring losing week in, week out.

 

 

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Arsenal 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

What’s interesting is the low block and last ditch defending was relatively solid and effective. All of our problems and goals conceded came from them letting us have the ball and shoot ourselves in the foot, again 

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I think we can take some positives from that. Dibling amazing and almost scored a wonder goal. Onuachu was better than expected.

We looked decent coming forwards on a few occasions. If we take those good things and keep a settled team. Who knows. Far better than what we saw first half against Bournemouth. 

Defensive mistake cost the third goal. VAR cost us the second.

We could easily have scored 2.

Edited by BotleySaint
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1 minute ago, Zorba said:

Shock goal was a nice feeling.. but didn’t last very long. Archer off the mark is a positive. Other than that, same old shit.

Getting very boring losing week in, week out.

 

 

If we'd got results against the other clubs we should have we would be ok and I think we would have with a different style of play, none of us expect to beat arsenal of course but 1 point from 21 available should any club be content with that? 

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I missed the first ten minutes but from what I saw after that - 

First half - we did exactly what you'd hope an underdog recently-promoted away team would do and put 10 men behind the ball, defended like bastards, rode our luck a little and frustrated them. They had a lot of pressure but for all that they only had one shot on target and you could see they were getting rattled. Exactly what you want. 

Second half - as soon as we got a goal we started playing 'our way', and then we almost looked too confident if that makes sense, basically trying to play Arsenal at their own game, which is exactly what they wanted. Rather than just trying to keep on with a massed defensive shape and hitting on the break, we immediately became much more open, started trying too many passes, started the suicidal playing out from the back against one of the best pressing teams there is, pushed too many people up and just played straight into their hands. 

Overall, we deserved to be level at half-time for sheer effort, and although our goal was obviously completely against the run of play, you could argue that once we scored it was set up to be a perfect backs-to-the-wall away performance smash-and-grab.

We just needed to keep defending like we did in the first half. But conceding immediately, down to a poor individual mistake, put paid to that. 

Ultimately two of their goals were down to individual errors by us, and you just can't give a team of their quality chances like that. 

In summary - individual errors killed us, and we tried to play too much football and predictably got picked off when we should have just shithoused it for 90 mins. 

Edited by Midfield_General
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Predictable result...better performance second half that exceeded very low expectations.

Top positives for me:

- TP played really well in the tiny cameo he was given...could work really well supplying knock-downs to Archer or even AA

- Dibbling and Fernandes are really good players...there's more to come from them

- Archer showed what he can do and should have some confidence

- We still have better players who aren't getting on the pitch...ABK and today, Lesley

Top Concerns for me:

- I don't credit RM with any of the positives...the things that are going right are because he has been forced into decisions...Stephens suspension...striker injuries and poor form. First half we played normal suicide passing and giveaways in our own third and were lucky not to be punished.

- RM ideology still beating reality of the need to adapt...go long, direct, faster pace

- Ramsdale doesn't command his area or come for enough crosses from corners or free kicks...pointed out by Arsenal podcaster as to why Raya took his place...it's actually quite noticeable

- We defend way too deep, don't even attempt to stop crosses coming in, still haven't learnt to leave a man on the edge of the penalty area when defending corners, too often no outlet and ball comes right back at us, attempt to play out from our 6-yard box EVERY f---ing time! resulting in conceding possession in our third time and time again

Leicester a MUST WIN for me.

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14 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Shock goal was a nice feeling.. but didn’t last very long. Archer off the mark is a positive. Other than that, same old shit.

Getting very boring losing week in, week out.

 

 

What were you expecting?

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I'm sad for you guys... 

The Premier League isn't the toughest league in the world for nothing...

Arsenal aren't easy to play against this year (unlike some other years haha).

Don't give up, I hope that solutions will soon be found to get back on track as soon as possible.

I'm thinking of you, my friends.

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Just now, ChristopheVAFC said:

I'm sad for you guys... 

The Premier League isn't the toughest league in the world for nothing...

Arsenal aren't easy to play against this year (unlike some other years haha).

Don't give up, I hope that solutions will soon be found to get back on track as soon as possible.

I'm thinking of you, my friends.

Merci bien Christophe. Nice to see a pleasant post!

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1 minute ago, Zorba said:

Exactly what i got, unfortunately.

I’m actually finding it very interesting RM trying to find his feet and a competitive starting 11, making plenty of mistakes along the way. 
you just have to expect us to get relegated then everything after that is a bonus. 
there were plenty of positives to take away from that game. 
we now know that Ross Stewart is defo not good enough for this league, just shows how good che Adams was up top. 
dibling got another 90 mins under his belt. 
We look better with Adam Armstrong in the side, he’s quick and does an amazing amount of defensive work. 
aribo tightens up the midfield. 
tall Paul wasn’t as bad as most people thought he’d be. 
see, all positives. 
absolutely no point changing the manager at this point. 
this team will have a year of pl experience behind them
id only pull the trigger if he fails to get us promoted next year

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didnt see any of the game but saw a comment on bbc sport saying dibbling was making califori (sic) look shit.

glad tall paul got a run out and looked ok.

Will watch the replay but assume based on the comments it was like when we played liverpool in the cup.

 

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1 minute ago, Matty's Caddy said:

I’m actually finding it very interesting RM trying to find his feet and a competitive starting 11, making plenty of mistakes along the way. 
you just have to expect us to get relegated then everything after that is a bonus. 
there were plenty of positives to take away from that game. 
we now know that Ross Stewart is defo not good enough for this league, just shows how good che Adams was up top. 
dibling got another 90 mins under his belt. 
We look better with Adam Armstrong in the side, he’s quick and does an amazing amount of defensive work. 
aribo tightens up the midfield. 
tall Paul wasn’t as bad as most people thought he’d be. 
see, all positives. 
absolutely no point changing the manager at this point. 
this team will have a year of pl experience behind them
id only pull the trigger if he fails to get us promoted next year

Well if you're happy to put up with that turgid brand of football for another year then good luck to you.....but it's boring and uninspiring as fuck with the players that we have at our disposal.

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Ironically that was one of our best performances of the season which probably tells you why we are getting relegated. I'll take the positives of Archer getting a good goal which will help with his confidence. It feels to me like the next game will decide Martin's fate. Onuachu has been shamefully sidelined wheb he looks like he deserves a chance at the very least. 

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Just now, Midfield_General said:

The commentary on the stream I had said it was a calf strain, and that it was apparently a new injury rather than a recurrence of one of the previous ones. 

Trying to collect them all!

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I watched with a friend, an Arsenal fan. Both he and Arsenal were particularly nervous at 2-1 up. I think we missed a very good chance of forcing a draw due to sloppiness.

Edited by OttawaSaint
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39 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

We need someone to rejuvenate us in the way Alan Ball and Gordon Strachan did.

Relegation need not be a formality.  I think we have a chance with the right manager in place.

Of course there is a chance. Ipswich, Leicester, Wolves and Everton are not a lot different. That's our benchmark not the loadsanoney teams for the time being

Just need our manager to be pragmatic

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Positives:

- Archer took his goal really well. Playing off the shoulder like that is clearly his game, so if we're going to play him then we should play to his strengths and give him something to run onto

- Onuachu looked good when he came on. Not just for his height, which we actually didn't really play to (surprise), but some really nice touches on the ball and generally looking like a good, confident footballer. Would definitely at least give us a focal point, hopefully this is the beginning of us giving him some game time

- Bednarek is never going to be the most cultured player but made a lot of important blocks and challenges, especially in the first half

- Dibling is class and when played in his proper position on the right will cause anyone problems, which made the decision to move him from there into the centre-forward role against Bournemouth, ahead of five other centre-forwards, even more barking mad 

- Fernandes has definitely got something about him and looks like a good signing. I just hope we don't break him. 

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3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

whoscored ratings, damn downes and suga looked like they had shockers, like fernandes a lot so glad he played well

image.thumb.png.9d49bbcf1bfc49a93aa8828b2dd0792b.png

The fact that this has Dibling as our third lowest rated player, despite him being our best, shows you all you need to know about these

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10 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Ramsdale; KWP, Bednarek, THB, Taylor; Downes, Aribo, Fernandes, Dibling; Archer, Onuachu.

Could that work? Appreciate a lack of width down the left. 

Archer was actually playing wide left when Tall Paul came on and looked perfectly fine. 

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Just watched highlights.

Very nice Archer goal. Especially as he was looking for some support before realising it was very slow in getting there.

First goal was a needless giveaway by Downes which caught us moving forward. Punished.

The second was tactical. We often don't defend that kind of delivery, as it takes much more to get it in. Welcome to the PL where players are good enough to exploit that.

Third was a howler from Suga.

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1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

Seems to be getting worse each week. The confidence is getting shot in the players. 

He was so positive in the first games, energetically getting forward to set up attacks but beard brains has coached him out of that and he's probably playing confused and at odds with his instincts.

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3 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Third was a howler from Suga.

Wondering if the mentality of keeping the ball at all costs is coming into it there. Defenders should be putting a foot through it in those situations but looked like he gambled on taking it wide to go up the line. 
 

Their 2nd is maybe unlucky. Merino is offside and tried to play it, and if he’s not there then Ramsdale can maybe go to the flight of the ball rather than staying on the line. Maybe  

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1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

He was so positive in the first games, energetically getting forward to set up attacks but beard brains has coached him out of that and he's probably playing confused and at odds with his instincts.

It will be exactly that.

The logic being that having him race forward, when the rest of the team is not set up for that sort of run, means there's greater risk when we concede possession.

And that systemic approach is what RM is looking for.

While we get excited seeing a player start an attack, or show some momentum, RM just sees the gaps and the risk.

We've had at least one player comment that they have to relearn basic football instincts under RM.

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7 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

He was so positive in the first games, energetically getting forward to set up attacks but beard brains has coached him out of that and he's probably playing confused and at odds with his instincts.

This is true of quite a few other squad members as well. Archer looks dangerous when we actually get him quicker balls in/through.

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1 hour ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I just don't get why we continue to do the same things over and over again without learning that it doesnt work...

Because Russ says that statistically we aren't as bad as our results suggest.

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1 hour ago, Vancouver Saint said:

Predictable result...better performance second half that exceeded very low expectations.

Top positives for me:

- TP played really well in the tiny cameo he was given...could work really well supplying knock-downs to Archer or even AA

- Dibbling and Fernandes are really good players...there's more to come from them

- Archer showed what he can do and should have some confidence

- We still have better players who aren't getting on the pitch...ABK and today, Lesley

Top Concerns for me:

- I don't credit RM with any of the positives...the things that are going right are because he has been forced into decisions...Stephens suspension...striker injuries and poor form. First half we played normal suicide passing and giveaways in our own third and were lucky not to be punished.

- RM ideology still beating reality of the need to adapt...go long, direct, faster pace

- Ramsdale doesn't command his area or come for enough crosses from corners or free kicks...pointed out by Arsenal podcaster as to why Raya took his place...it's actually quite noticeable

- We defend way too deep, don't even attempt to stop crosses coming in, still haven't learnt to leave a man on the edge of the penalty area when defending corners, too often no outlet and ball comes right back at us, attempt to play out from our 6-yard box EVERY f---ing time! resulting in conceding possession in our third time and time again

Leicester a MUST WIN for me.

Lesley had a poor game against Bournemouth, he was all over the place.

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1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

I missed the first ten minutes but from what I saw after that - 

First half - we did exactly what you'd hope an underdog recently-promoted away team would do and put 10 men behind the ball, defended like bastards, rode our luck a little and frustrated them. They had a lot of pressure but for all that they only had one shot on target and you could see they were getting rattled. Exactly what you want. 

Second half - as soon as we got a goal we started playing 'our way', and then we almost looked too confident if that makes sense, basically trying to play Arsenal at their own game, which is exactly what they wanted. Rather than just trying to keep on with a massed defensive shape and hitting on the break, we immediately became much more open, started trying too many passes, started the suicidal playing out from the back against one of the best pressing teams there is, pushed too many people up and just played straight into their hands. 

Overall, we deserved to be level at half-time for sheer effort, and although our goal was obviously completely against the run of play, you could argue that once we scored it was set up to be a perfect backs-to-the-wall away performance smash-and-grab.

We just needed to keep defending like we did in the first half. But conceding immediately, down to a poor individual mistake, put paid to that. 

Ultimately two of their goals were down to individual errors by us, and you just can't give a team of their quality chances like that. 

In summary - individual errors killed us, and we tried to play too much football and predictably got picked off when we should have just shithoused it for 90 mins. 


Agree. 
 

Naive. Wonder if Martin told them to be more progressive or if it was just emotions. 

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1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

We need someone to rejuvenate us in the way Alan Ball and Gordon Strachan did.

Relegation need not be a formality.  I think we have a chance with the right manager in place.

This for me is the most frustrating thing, and what hurts the most with every defeat. If we could bring someone else in, give the whole squad a blank slate to start from, and set us up a different way then just maybe they could keep us within arms reach of safety until the transfer window reopens and we can get in a couple of shithouse players that make us tough to play against and see where that takes us.

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The reason we got 10 behind the ball was because Arsenal had 67% possession mostly in our half. It wasn't a plan it was force of circumstances. Stewart was never going to get free and Archer was isolated. It was much better with TP, Dibling, Archer.

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To stay up we need a proven Mnager that has fought and won relegation battles.  Such as David Moyes.  It would not be a pretty style of play.  But would keep us up for a few seasons whilst the finances and quality of the squads etc can be improved.  He is available now so bring him in.  We would immedialy see an end to the tippy tappy sideways passes at the back.

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1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

It will be exactly that.

The logic being that having him race forward, when the rest of the team is not set up for that sort of run, means there's greater risk when we concede possession.

And that systemic approach is what RM is looking for.

While we get excited seeing a player start an attack, or show some momentum, RM just sees the gaps and the risk.

We've had at least one player comment that they have to relearn basic football instincts under RM.

One of our other best chances in the second half came from Sugawara absolutely pegging it up the right on the overlap. There was a 1-2 in the box, and then a low cross across the 6 yard area that we couldn’t quite get on the end of. That sort of run though is exactly what Suga wants to be doing and is very effective at. It could be a real weapon for us. 

It’s frustrating when the handbrake of the system is put on that sort of thing when presumably that’s what we saw in him when we bought him. 

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The performance was good. The first half we were really, really resilient. And the start of the second half was good, getting that early goal.

Unfortunately we didn't hang on long enough and after their equaliser, the mood in the stadium shifted, they reacted to that and we didn't cope.

Even so, at 2-1 we were in the game and had chances to equalise. Third goal, a really stupid goal to give away. Killed it.

Overall, we did OK, Arsenal too good for us but we were competitive, unlike at Brentford and Bournemouth. We have it in us to compete at this level, I just feel if we get that first win we'll kick on.

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What is incredibly frustrating about all this is I think there is a decent side in there somewhere, but the manager is actually making them perform worse than they probably could. It's just bloody vanity. Even Pep's teams don't try and pass it around their own area after just getting it back off the opposition, they're perfectly happy to move quickly onto the counter. But we don't! On the counter, on transition is the best way to score for ANY team.

Yes, we are seeing a lot of individual mistakes. But when it's costing us an average of 2 goals a game, and coming from nearly every single member of the back 4+2 midfielders, it's very clear the problem is either the system or how it's being communicated. Too much scrambled thinking, too much 'extreme possession' indoctrination has the players doubting their instincts to sometimes get rid of the ball long or medium distance.

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I mean, sometimes you just need to whack it to your #9 and hope he holds it up. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and Arsenal did it plenty. You could see when the ball went into Stewart or Tall Paul and it stuck everything gets easier, you're further up the pitch with more space and options.

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Few beers at new Spoons in Waterloo can’t temper my disappointment no way was this a 3-1 game. Fans tried hard today to get behind the team so obviously outclassed by standard and cost of players compared to ours.

How do you go from not playing to starting Manning but he was one of our best players today didn’t put a foot wrong.   

Defensively tried so hard competed every set piece, cannot fault players today gave everything. 
TP gave us the focal point we have needed. Fernandez will be some player, my one criticism is on Downes who when presses leaves us open as he is the only holding player and back four exposed we don’t need him to press just stay solid.

I never normally talk about away stewards but looking for trouble that wasn’t there had to get involved twice from mainly same one with chip on shoulder picking on mate and son who did nothing. 
 

Decent performance today considering but long season and we will need to get points soon

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1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

One of our other best chances in the second half came from Sugawara absolutely pegging it up the right on the overlap. There was a 1-2 in the box, and then a low cross across the 6 yard area that we couldn’t quite get on the end of. That sort of run though is exactly what Suga wants to be doing and is very effective at. It could be a real weapon for us. 

It’s frustrating when the handbrake of the system is put on that sort of thing when presumably that’s what we saw in him when we bought him. 

It's odd that our highlight reel for a player isn't the one the club look at.

Rasmus: Look at that pass back!
Russ: If he does that a other dozen times in this move, we've got to get him!

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