Stick or Twist? (Poll)

[Holmes_and_Watson]

17 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Some interesting points, and want to pick up on one of them which is the coaching piece. 
Of course you can only coach what the recruitment team provide, but I’m struggling to think of players, particularly the young assets SR want to monitise, that RM have improved. 
It depends on your parameters but arguably you can put Bazunu, Larios, ABK, THB, Edward’s, Wood, Downes, Charles, Smallbone, Edozie, Sulemana, Meghoma and SAA in the not improved column. 
Downes and THB have done well at times, but I’d argue haven’t moved up a level.

His commitment to a team ethic has helped some, notably ArmA and Stephen’s last season. But in terms of coaching to technically improve people? No.

And if our model is to buy cheap potential, develop and then cash-in, seeing a load of talented kids stagnating is as likely to cause an itch on the trigger finger than some poor results.

I guess the point is that RM isn’t getting results or hitting the brief of developing kids for cash. It’s not looking great for him

Pretty much agree it's not looking good, and also with "you can only coach what the recruitment team provide."

To give as much credit as possible, the work Martin did to turn around the spirit of a battered squad last season, helped a lot. Of course, being a big fish in a small pond brings it's own confidence.

It's also hard to state improvements considering the PL performances of the whole team.

Agree on Downes and THB. Last year's standouts in Will, Aribo and AA have fallen away (well, Aribo probably doing much as expected).

The pile of previous cast offs remains like that. Agreed that this is a big SR issue. Changing approaches, varied recruitment streams just leads to massive squads with no pathways or profits.

I thought that, despite continuing flaws, Edozie's game was getting better. But both he and SAA away or not getting minutes. Meghoma I guess not considered good enough. Note that we've now been buying in players with lower league experience.

SR approach to getting more out of limitations, applies to Martin. Will, AA and others looking better in a lower level when it works. But with limitations exposed doing it at a higher level.

This season's breakthrough is Dibling, who wasn't getting the minutes last year.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Well I think it's clear to many on here that your attempts at humour are on par with Martins coaching ability. 

 

Jeez, you're making this thread awkward. 

Edited October 2 by Farmer Saint

[Midfield_General]

3 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

My wife is in fact more attractive than Pinder and doesn't need to take her clothes off to make money. She is also younger than her and 11 years younger than me.

I sincerely hope you're not 21

[madge]

Talk sport suggesting board is split on Martin with owner having concerns about Martin and Ankerson.. it’s his investment 

[Sir Ralph]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAlpf5lITpp/?igsh=N2F6NmIzdXc0cWpo

[Badger]

1 hour ago, madge said:

Talk sport suggesting board is split on Martin with owner having concerns about Martin and Ankerson.. it’s his investment 

Who makes up the Board, isn't it Rasmus, Kraft,the Dyson bloke whose name escapes me, and one of Katherina Liebherr's representative ?

Would have thought Dragan as the owner has the casting vote on this. 

[Convict Colony]

On 01/10/2024 at 15:51, Kermitzasaint said:

No. My wife is way hotter than anything he could manage

Rule no 1 of saintsweb, never let your wife post for you.

[Convict Colony]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Who makes up the Board, isn't it Rasmus, Kraft,the Dyson bloke whose name escapes me, and one of Katherina Liebherr's representative ?

Would have thought Dragan as the owner has the casting vote on this. 

Would assume dragan has more of the better share class if they've split them or just a fuck loads more as Kraft and Rasmus from what I remember only have 5-15% total whilst dragan owns the rest of their company and liebber with Ralph Boli (guess) managers whatever is left of her % of the club as I believe it's been diluted from the 15%, am sure someone with decent companies house access could check.

[Kermitzasaint]

6 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Jeez, you're making this thread awkward. 

Let's all hope you stop then and go spend time with your disappointing other half

[Farmer Saint]

Right, so I think we've exhausted the fun we can have with Josef Fritzl here, let's get back to discussing RM. 

[Farmer Saint]

15 hours ago, madge said:

Talk sport suggesting board is split on Martin with owner having concerns about Martin and Ankerson.. it’s his investment 

Yeah - he needs to clear ship. Ankersen has shown nothing. 

I also believe that SR were potentially looking to offload us in the Summer and invest elsewhere...don't know if that's still on the cards. 

[Gloucester Saint]

15 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah - he needs to clear ship. Ankersen has shown nothing. 

I also believe that SR were potentially looking to offload us in the Summer and invest elsewhere...don't know if that's still on the cards. 

Unless the Covid debt was dealt with, I can’t even see them getting the £100m. That said, with the parachute payments, another buyer without the Rasmus/Kraft/Martin baggage could turn the club around within a couple of years. 

I’d personally be happy with Dragan as owner but minus the 🤡 crew. If that’s not possible, then at least Martin Semmens won’t be selecting the new buyer. 

[Osvaldorama]

Surely we can find owners that aren’t  skint / stupid / a criminal.  
 

Every other premier league club seems to have done it. People are still interested in Everton with hundreds of millions of debt. 
Even fucking Bournemouth have money. 
 

Why are we the only ones that seem to get purchased by absolute dossers? (since Liebherr sadly passed)

[Farmer Saint]

13 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Surely we can find owners that aren’t  skint / stupid / a criminal.  
 

Every other premier league club seems to have done it. People are still interested in Everton with hundreds of millions of debt. 
Even fucking Bournemouth have money. 
 

Why are we the only ones that seem to get purchased by absolute dossers? (since Liebherr sadly passed)

I think probably due to potential. We're a provincial club without the ability to grow - the attraction of a Bournemouth or previously a Brighton was that it was a low cost, small stadium club with a large catchment. We're never going to be able to get 50k fans so we're nearly at our ceiling already. Therefore we are purely a cash cow, but you can only be a cash cow if we stay up year after year which no-one will invest the money in to guarantee.

We got lucky with the Liebherr/Cortese axis. 

Edited October 3 by Farmer Saint

[franniesTache]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think probably due to potential. We're a provincial club without the ability to grow - the attraction of a Bournemouth or previously a Brighton was that it was a low cost, small stadium club with a large catchment. We're never going to be able to get 50k fans so we're nearly at our ceiling already. Therefore we are purely a cash cow, but you can only be a cash cow if we stay up year after year which no-one will invest the money in to guarantee.

We got lucky with the Liebherr/Cortese axis. 

Hold on that can't be true, we've been told for years we need to expand the stadium and that our "catchment area" takes in the enterity of Aampshire plus most of the English Channel, when you factor in the dynamic pricing model for tickets and the long planned ground breaking aquarium stand (so our Agnatha, Chondrichthyes, and Osteichthyes friends can watch the game) we will be without a doubt the BIGGEST club in world football, and Cortese will give up his price job at AC milan; Inter Milan; Juventus to lead us to a new era of domination, the likes of which this sport has never before seen.

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think probably due to potential. We're a provincial club without the ability to grow - the attraction of a Bournemouth or previously a Brighton was that it was a low cost, small stadium club with a large catchment. We're never going to be able to get 50k fans so we're nearly at our ceiling already. Therefore we are purely a cash cow, but you can only be a cash cow if we stay up year after year which no-one will invest the money in to guarantee.

We got lucky with the Liebherr/Cortese axis. 

Very odd point of view.

[chownie20]

Dont think its really fair to criticise Dragan.  He has spent as much as he can do within PSR and retained a huge squad.  The problem is crap recruitment of managers and players.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, chownie20 said:

Dont think its really fair to criticise Dragan.  He has spent as much as he can do within PSR and retained a huge squad.  The problem is crap recruitment of managers and players.

Which is Rasmus, the compromise might be that he becomes a Goztepe employee but not part of SR board itself, and Dragan appoints someone of more obvious top level footballing stature and experience to oversee the group. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, chownie20 said:

Dont think its really fair to criticise Dragan.  He has spent as much as he can do within PSR and retained a huge squad.  The problem is crap recruitment of managers and players.

Yeah. I feel a bit sorry he's the latest to lose lots of money, having been convinced by people scrabbling around with less of a clue than those their master plan was going to overtake.

If he doesn't sell up this season, then we may get one more shot next season. It would be brave to try yet more SR revolutionary plans beyond that.

Perhaps SR will look to develop smaller clubs, requiring smaller financial risks than trying to keep a side in the PL.

[Doctoroncall]

11 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Yeah. I feel a bit sorry he's the latest to lose lots of money, having been convinced by people scrabbling around with less of a clue than those their master plan was going to overtake.

If he doesn't sell up this season, then we may get one more shot next season. It would be brave to try yet more SR revolutionary plans beyond that.

Perhaps SR will look to develop smaller clubs, requiring smaller financial risks than trying to keep a side in the PL.

Can he restructure SR or edify those within SR?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

22 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

Can he restructure SR or edify those within SR?

He'll be the major shareholder, and decision maker.

"Wealthy individual seeks new, innovative team to use riches to bring multi club success" might not bring in the right sort of person.

Even with the best of intentions, SR have made a number of rubbish calls. I've no idea why he'd want to go through it more than once.

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Very odd point of view.

how ironic

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, chownie20 said:

Dont think its really fair to criticise Dragan.  He has spent as much as he can do within PSR and retained a huge squad.  The problem is crap recruitment of managers and players.

The problem, it appears from the outside, is Rasmus, all the other issues you mention lead directly to him.

[John B]

Like the country SFC is fucked with the players we have there seems little chance of the club surviving long term in the PL due to awful transfer policy of the last few years.

Not sure about the Academy either but with clubs like Chelsea hovering up talent here in Berkshire and in North Hampshire now what does it have of attracting top class talent

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Very odd point of view.

Why? 

[CB Fry]

22 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think probably due to potential. We're a provincial club without the ability to grow - the attraction of a Bournemouth or previously a Brighton was that it was a low cost, small stadium club with a large catchment. We're never going to be able to get 50k fans so we're nearly at our ceiling already. Therefore we are purely a cash cow, but you can only be a cash cow if we stay up year after year which no-one will invest the money in to guarantee.

We got lucky with the Liebherr/Cortese axis. 

We weren't "lucky" as such.

Leibherr bought us for the same "potential" reasons you ascribe to Bournemouth etc. We were L1, cheap, skint with potential to get to the top division.

We are close to our ceiling now though, agree. I am not sure middling/lower Prem club is good investment for anyone.

[CB Fry]

20 hours ago, franniesTache said:

Hold on that can't be true, we've been told for years we need to expand the stadium and that our "catchment area" takes in the enterity of Aampshire plus most of the English Channel, when you factor in the dynamic pricing model for tickets and the long planned ground breaking aquarium stand (so our Agnatha, Chondrichthyes, and Osteichthyes friends can watch the game) we will be without a doubt the BIGGEST club in world football, and Cortese will give up his price job at AC milan; Inter Milan; Juventus to lead us to a new era of domination, the likes of which this sport has never before seen.

50,000 fans went to the JPT final therefore they would all come every week if only we had a 60,000 seater stadium. Or something.

[Osvaldorama]

Tbf, we sell out most weeks. Our support is actually very solid. Especially last few years.

 

I can only imagine how good it would be if we actually had something to cheer about. 

[Vancouver Saint]

On 30/09/2024 at 14:13, trousers said:

As chief forum fence-sitter I'm going to abstain. I've been hopeful that something might click, but it's looking less and less likely as each game passes. I've been minded to give him 10 games to sink or swim. So, what's that, another 4 games? Tick tock...

 

This. I said the same at the start of the season - give it 10 games - and so I'll hold by it. I think his ideology is trumping reality and that has to change. But on a couple of things I cut him some slack. We had a 25-game unbeaten run after a dreadful start. He played the 'credit in the bank' loyalty repayment card for the players who took us up and I don't resent that. We were unlucky not to get something from the Newcastle game. We were super-unlucky not to beat Ipswich. So we should be on 4 points. He has proven he's willing to be ruthless...and also to experiment a bit. He appears to have the player's respect (but this is always hard to tell and will wear thin if we continue to get nothing from games). We have a decent squad (too many too average)...but is it better than three other teams in the PL - everyone else has strengthened.

On the negative side...there's sticking to a principle and then there's just plain pig-headed stubbornness. Jack Stephens? Will Smallbone? That Bournemouth performance - the most dispiriting since Nathan Jones vs Nottingham Forest at home.

Now 3 games left after the international break - we need a minimum of 4 points from those IMO - plus decent performances.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 hours ago, Vancouver Saint said:

This. I said the same at the start of the season - give it 10 games - and so I'll hold by it. I think his ideology is trumping reality and that has to change. But on a couple of things I cut him some slack. We had a 25-game unbeaten run after a dreadful start. He played the 'credit in the bank' loyalty repayment card for the players who took us up and I don't resent that. We were unlucky not to get something from the Newcastle game. We were super-unlucky not to beat Ipswich. So we should be on 4 points. He has proven he's willing to be ruthless...and also to experiment a bit. He appears to have the player's respect (but this is always hard to tell and will wear thin if we continue to get nothing from games). We have a decent squad (too many too average)...but is it better than three other teams in the PL - everyone else has strengthened.

On the negative side...there's sticking to a principle and then there's just plain pig-headed stubbornness. Jack Stephens? Will Smallbone? That Bournemouth performance - the most dispiriting since Nathan Jones vs Nottingham Forest at home.

Now 3 games left after the international break - we need a minimum of 4 points from those IMO - plus decent performances.

Unbeaten does not mean winning lots of points. We didn’t gain on our rivals.

We got what we deserved against Newcastle.

Over the whole game a draw against Ipswich was all we deserved.

[CB Fry]

I dont get the "unlucky" not to get anything from Newcastle. 

Weren't we lucky to play them for half a match with 10 men? 

We got a huge lucky break and still got nothing.

Edited October 7 by CB Fry

[ScandiSaint]

Voted to keep him - but that could easily change. 

I think there was enough there on Saturday to show the players are playing for him. Clearly, we need to take less risks at the back but I think he is showing a degree of flexibility and I am hoping we get a repeat of last season, get a big win and go on a great run (wishful thinking perhaps). 

I agree that getting a manager with a different playing style is a bit illogical based on our recruitment but believe the players would be able to adapt a bit, most should be able to play more than one way. 

We changed managers a lot last time and ended up with not being any better really. However, if we don't get an improved points return in the next two or three, then think it might be time to change. 

Hopefully after the last two games, it should be a bit more obvious who should be in the team more regularly. Would love us to start using Tall Paul more often too. Added a great focal point on Saturday, and we can play it for feet as well as looking for flick ons. 

[Dark Munster]

I’m curious. Of the 61 who voted “no” to sacking him, have any of you now changed your minds?

[Toussaint]

54 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I’m curious. Of the 61 who voted “no” to sacking him, have any of you now changed your minds?

We need a fresh poll

[Pamplemousse]

I don't think we'll sack him imminently, but if we haven't got our first win from any of our next three (Man City, Everton and Wolves) then that should be that and the board will have to look elsewhere you'd imagine.

I suspect we'll be ultra-focused on defending in training this week in anticipation of our trip to the Etihad so who knows, maybe some of that will rub off in the next two games and we keep a couple of clean sheets for once!

I'm on the fence, because the performance yesterday (and at Arsenal) for the first 60 minutes was good. At the start of the season we were awful going forward, and we definitely look a threat now at least, even if at the back it's the same old issues. We have to find a way of performing well over a full 90 minutes, and I do genuinely think that once we get that first win, we'll go on a bit of a run. 

On the flip side... we have lost every game bar one. We are underperforming, and ultimately, that's all that matters.

 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

I'm on the fence, because the performance yesterday (and at Arsenal) for the first 60 minutes was good.

 

But that is the issue. How many of us yesterday expected Saints to blow it, for Russ to make his "smarter than everybody else" substitutions, and when Leicester got that added- to-added time corner that we would throw the one point we were clinging onto away.

The first half / 60 minutes of a match counts for nothing if you still can't close the game out, and for a former defender Russ is one of the shittiest defensive coaches around.

[trousers]

On 01/10/2024 at 01:13, trousers said:

As chief forum fence-sitter I'm going to abstain. I've been hopeful that something might click, but it's looking less and less likely as each game passes. I've been minded to give him 10 games to sink or swim. So, what's that, another 4 games? Tick tock...

 

Two games to go before I clamber down from off my perch. Probably no prizes for guessing which way I'm leaning at this juncture though....

Edited October 20 by trousers

[saintant]

44 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

We need a fresh poll

How about a fresh manager?

[saintant]

28 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

I don't think we'll sack him imminently, but if we haven't got our first win from any of our next three (Man City, Everton and Wolves) then that should be that and the board will have to look elsewhere you'd imagine.

I suspect we'll be ultra-focused on defending in training this week in anticipation of our trip to the Etihad so who knows, maybe some of that will rub off in the next two games and we keep a couple of clean sheets for once!

I'm on the fence, because the performance yesterday (and at Arsenal) for the first 60 minutes was good. At the start of the season we were awful going forward, and we definitely look a threat now at least, even if at the back it's the same old issues. We have to find a way of performing well over a full 90 minutes, and I do genuinely think that once we get that first win, we'll go on a bit of a run. 

On the flip side... we have lost every game bar one. We are underperforming, and ultimately, that's all that matters.

 

This guy couldn't coach a decent defence if he was given the Arsenal 'invincibles' back four in their prime.

[Toussaint]

55 minutes ago, saintant said:

How about a fresh manager?

Fresh footballing setup. Like, some people who actually understand elite level football.

[Pamplemousse]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

But that is the issue. How many of us yesterday expected Saints to blow it, for Russ to make his "smarter than everybody else" substitutions, and when Leicester got that added- to-added time corner that we would throw the one point we were clinging onto away.

The first half / 60 minutes of a match counts for nothing if you still can't close the game out, and for a former defender Russ is one of the shittiest defensive coaches around.

The defence has to improve, no question about it. And if he doesn't sort it ASAP, it'll be his downfall.

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Fresh footballing setup. Like, some people who actually understand elite level football.

You've got Parsons who was in charge of a hoover brand and Kraft, Ankersen etc who are all more concerned with data and technology to care about the reality that is right infront of them.